Singapore Fairies and Mrs Lee

[scroobal]

Saw this in the press. She never took a single union work. It was done by her husband and later by Dennis. Another fishing village fan. I am sure she will be embarrassed by this.

"Mourning Mrs Lee's passing, the letters said her involvement with the labour movement reached back to the tumultuous years of Singapore's history in the 1950s and 60s, when the law firm, Lee & Lee, set up by MM Lee and Madam Kwa, 'represented unions against unscrupulous employers and helped them fight for better wages and working conditions for workers.'

'Union leaders of that era will remember the trials and tribulations of the labour movement then as it fought errant employers, communist elements and combative trade union practices. Many unions engaged you as their legal adviser to speak up for them and champion the rights of workers,' said the letter. 'The legal assistance that Lee & Lee gave to the unions then was invaluable to the building of a strong foundation for the Labour Movement of today."

 

[scroobal]

I refer to the 24 Sept 2010 Straits Times report of the statements made by Mr Alexander Gorin during the visit of Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew to Ukraine.

Mr Gorin reportedly said that MM Lee is a thinker, philosopher and practitioner who created a state and guided it from Third World to First. There are many misconceptions in his statement that needs clarification. Mr Gorin needs to understand that:

1. Singapore wasn’t created by MM Lee in 1965. It was founded in 1819 by Sir Stamford Raffles. It was Raffles who saw the potential of our strategic maritime location. Raffles proved to be correct and Singapore quickly became an important international port of call which led to a thriving entrepot trade.

2. Singapore has been thriving for nearly 150 years before MM Lee took over in 1959. Even at independence in 1965, our per capita GDP was already the fourth highest in Asia behind Japan, Hong Kong and Brunei.

3. Singapore joined Malaysia in 1963 and was booted out in 1965. If there was anyone who created the state of Singapore, it was Malaysia’s prime minister Tungku Abdul Rahman since he was the one who booted Singapore out and thereby ‘created’ the state of Singapore.

4. The supposed Singapore success formula of foreign investment led export industrialisation wasn’t the brainchild of MM Lee. It was the brainchild of Dr Albert Winsemius, a Dutch economist sent by the United Nations to Singapore in 1960 to help Singapore industrialise. Singapore went from Third World to First following Dr Winsemius’ plan rather than MM Lee’s.

5. Between 1961 and 1965, Singapore did not pursue export industrialisation but pursued import substitution instead. Only with our separation from Malaysia in 1965 which rendered import substitution untenable did Singapore finally embark on Dr Winsemius’ formula. Thus, MM Lee didn’t act on Dr Winsemius’ recommendations immediately and only adopted it when faced with no other choice. It seems therefore that our split from Malaysia in 1965 was the key factor that led Singapore to adopt export industrialisation rather than some conscious decision by MM Lee.

6. Singapore is not the only success story but is just one of four East Asian economic miracles alongside Hong Kong, Taiwan and South Korea. You will not find a similar statesman extraordinaire responsible for the other three economic miracles. This shows that you don’t need a statesman extraordinaire for a country to succeed. If we were to ask ourselves what is so special about these four economies, there is only one obvious answer, they are all East Asian societies. Not only that, China too has been rising rapidly over the last twenty years. The Singapore success is very much an East Asian success rather than the success of any one man.


Thank you


Ng Kok Lim

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Scroobal

I really wonder if Mr Ng read anything or something about the sixties or seventies in order for him to justify not giving due credit.

Even the most liberal and leftist of development specialist I met as a student would admit that for Taiwan S Korea and even Japan, there were dominant individuals and or dominant parties forcing through the necessary changes for economic changes. Would China have been China without Deng. Taiwan without Chiang ? S Korea without Pak. None of them stuck ard as long as Lee hence lee's enhanced stature amongst the pack but all of them were ruthless and pragmatic in driving economic growth.

GDP in 1965, Half of Asia including Burma and Philipines were ahead of us.


Locke

 

[shelltox]

The brits found singapura, and used it as their trading post. Tricked the sultan up north to sign treaties in english. When the sultan found out, he rebelled but was defeated and malaysia became a british colony.

 

[scroobal]

Kok Lim is attempting to balance things and I guess the pendulum has swung quiet a bit. Singaporean generally know how lucky we were until the late 80s. I think, they tend to load the dice when they see imbalance.

Anywhere if you notice, we are seeing the middle ground now.Something you would not see from the press.

You do recall the comments in the letter of condolences sent to the sons of JBJ and how their father was trying to demolish parliament. This is in a letter of condolence. What is good for the goose must be surely good for the gander. Who wrote the rules and why are we suddenly so different.

The world will never be a good place when fence sitters prevail. They want to be nice and to be popular. In school, you surely know that in debates you take a position and you work that position.

In essence, this is not about dominant personalities. This is about low lives living in the shade of dominant personalities and claiming to know history and glossing over the negatives. It has to be warts and all and not about kissing asses.

They still have not found one positive contribution besides that Women's charter that I higjhlighted. Do you know any other direct contribution that she did for Singapore. I know this lady and she a is very nice person. She is also private. Now we are talking about Singapore growth's. As one forummers stated, we need to thank his driver and gardener so that he could concentrate on developing Singapore.

Dear Scroobal

I really wonder if Mr Ng read anything or something about the sixties or seventies in order for him to justify not giving due credit.

Locke

 

[Hazama]

When an important person passes on, be assured of many ass-lickers to appear.

 

[scroobal]

At least Nathan go it right and wrote an accurate account of her in his condolence note.

NTUC and the press are unbelievable.

Reminds me of the time, when Mindef and Academia were told to write a book about Lim Bo Seng. The poor chap though valiant got caught within a short period of arriving in Malaya. But because of the propaganda his role was blown out of proportion. They had a hard time to convince senior brass, they could not do the military part but could portray him as an Kuomintang agent. Finally some smart alec came out with comics.

The book on the Malay Lt who fought with his regiment gloriously on Pasir Panjang Ridge was then stopped to avoid explaining the vacuum

When an important person passes on, be assured of many ass-lickers to appear.

 

[SNAblog]

"Mourning Mrs Lee's passing, the letters said her involvement with the labour movement reached back to the tumultuous years of Singapore's history in the 1950s and 60s, when the law firm, Lee & Lee, set up by MM Lee and Madam Kwa, 'represented unions against unscrupulous employers and helped them fight for better wages and working conditions for workers.'

Isn't it ironic that NTUC is fighting against better wages for workers now?

 

[Hazama]

At least Nathan go it right and wrote an accurate account of her in his condolence note.

NTUC and the press are unbelievable.

Reminds me of the time, when Mindef and Academia were told to write a book about Lim Bo Seng. The poor chap though valiant got caught within a short period of arriving in Malaya. But because of the propaganda his role was blown out of proportion. They had a hard time to convince senior brass, they could not do the military part but could portray him as an Kuomintang agent. Finally some smart alec came out with comics.

The book on the Malay Lt who fought with his regiment gloriously on Pasir Panjang Ridge was then stopped to avoid explaining the vacuum

I have already stopped taking what people said in their condolences seriously, especially in Singapore press. I will always remember the mega suck-up of Goh Keng Swee, about how man were 'touched' by his actions, but yet nobody visited him during his retirement days. I had a feeling he was 'isolated' compared to Raja because he did not see eye-to-eye with Old Fart.

I try to read non-Singaporean and most importantly, non-154th versions about our heroes.

 

[redlightmeansgo]

when you knowingly stick yr face in the midst of a massive blowjob, you'll end up with jizz all over yr face. So why bother with 154th?

 

[kingrant]

A very good example of squeezing water from rocks. The Zorro clown needs to justify his cabinet position and his million dollar pay and score some brownie points. In the process, workers got another stab in the back.

Saw this in the press. She never took a single union work. It was done by her husband and later by Dennis. Another fishing village fan. I am sure she will be embarrassed by this.

"Mourning Mrs Lee's passing, the letters said her involvement with the labour movement reached back to the tumultuous years of Singapore's history in the 1950s and 60s, when the law firm, Lee & Lee, set up by MM Lee and Madam Kwa, 'represented unions against unscrupulous employers and helped them fight for better wages and working conditions for workers.'

'Union leaders of that era will remember the trials and tribulations of the labour movement then as it fought errant employers, communist elements and combative trade union practices. Many unions engaged you as their legal adviser to speak up for them and champion the rights of workers,' said the letter. 'The legal assistance that Lee & Lee gave to the unions then was invaluable to the building of a strong foundation for the Labour Movement of today."

 

[scroobal]

If the workers only know the pay scale of NTUC Sr Management. They will be stunned. Its even more secretive than the civil service or any other arm of the government.

Isn't it ironic that NTUC is fighting against better wages for workers now?

 

[scroobal]

Why is there a need to make up things. These guys are crazy.

A very good example of squeezing water from rocks. The Zorro clown needs to justify his cabinet position and his million dollar pay and score some brownie points. In the process, workers got another stab in the back.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

i must say that a book on both Harry n Choo wif warts n all wld truly be a fascinating read n a sure blockbuster seller...present time is not right though...perhaps in another decade or so when all the dust settles...r so i hope!

do not want to be a curmudgeon n speak ill of the dead...but all the one sided glowing narrative in the msm is perhaps starting to get abit too thick...i mean even gillian koh is now getting in on the act...

to bring pple back to earth...Scotts21/Nassim Jade; HDB conveyancing n the sudden death of her first daughter-in-law; abolition of Estate/Death Duty...

in any event Mama Lee has had a great innings...icing on the cake was probably that special night in 2005...in this respect i am sure Harry wld agree...

PS. to be fair to Mama Lee i believe she sld be credited for her contribution wrt the Separation Agreement...

 

[LonewolfAlfa]

yah yah HDB conveyancing. i remember when i was young, alot of taxi drivers always complain why must only use Lee & Lee and the amount of money they must have made.

 

[hokkienpeng]

yah yah HDB conveyancing. i remember when i was young, alot of taxi drivers always complain why must only use Lee & Lee and the amount of money they must have made.

Saw the following on TR. Anybody has the lowdown on the TIBS bit? Also heard through the grapevines that all SAF No. 4 uniforms used to be contracted to a garment company that she owned — again, does anyone know more?


http://www.temasekreview.com/2010/10/02/breaking-news-kwa-geok-choo-has-died/comment-page-2/

<i>Where were you hypocrites?:
October 3, 2010 at 9:10 am

to all those who is urging for no negative remarks to be passed at Mrs Lee at this moment, well where the hell were you when Lee Hsein Loong wrote to the JBJ”s sons a letter that was full of negative remarks…

please lah.. before you stand up to defend PAP, watch how filthy your backs are… as for those who claim you are no supporters of PAP and still insist no negative remarks should be passed at Mrs Lee, you are just sore hypocrites who will stand up for the powerful and trample the powerless.

Mrs Lee did not enter the political scene as a politician. But as what we all know privately, she played a huge role in Singapore politics behind the scene, much of which we do not approve. The reason why you see such an outpour of lashings is that Singaporeans were forcibly silenced from speaking or questioning when she was alive.

Nobody could ask about why her law firm had a monopoly in offering legal services in public housing for decades. Nobody could ask what was her role in Tibs bus service. Nobody could ask if she had a role in the appointment of Danabalan (her cousin’s husband). Nobody could ask what was her role if she had one in the appointment of her other relatives in other positions. Even when her son said she told him to go and get discounts for Nassim Jade, there was no investigation to see if it was wrong even though shareholders cried foul. The list goes on…

If those who insist no negative remarks should be passed, well if only you had set these issues straight, so many people today will not be lashing out at her.</i>

 

[aurvandil]

Even the most liberal and leftist of development specialist I met as a student would admit that for Taiwan S Korea and even Japan, there were dominant individuals and or dominant parties forcing through the necessary changes for economic changes. Would China have been China without Deng. Taiwan without Chiang ? S Korea without Pak. None of them stuck ard as long as Lee hence lee's enhanced stature amongst the pack but all of them were ruthless and pragmatic in driving economic growth.

I think the myth that needs to be addressed is that without the PAP, Singapore would not have developed and we would now be living in a sleepy "fishing village".

This is silly as it was not the PAP which brought about the economic growth. Rather it was the socio-politcal/socio-economic circumstances of the time. The only credit due to the PAP is that they managed to to chance upon the right set of policies that enabled the strong economic growth.

The PAP does not have a monopoly on the understanding of these policies. Since the 1990s, many other countries have studied how Singapore did it and implemented similar policies. The Singapore "economic miracle" has therefore been replicated many times all over the world. If the "economic miracle" can be so easily replicated, can we then still call it a "miracle".

Secondly, the set of socio-politcal/socio-economic circumstances of the time has long ceased to exist. Despite all sort of impressive sounding committees and plans, the PAP has not been able to replicate the success of the early years. As strong economic growth is a cornerstone of PAP political power, the PAP sough to continue the ficton by growing GDP via the FT policy. This fooled Singaporeans for a while. By now however, the fiction has worn thin as many Singaporeans have seen GDP go up spectacularly while their standard of living stagnated or fell.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Aurnvidial

Without the PAP, the alternative was a leftist party which would not have developed Singapore. True SG at that point was not a fishing village, but I can name you any no of countries in the sixties ex colonial who were left with schools ports , english education etc etc and who still fucked it up.

People copy because policies can be copied, immitation being the highest form of flattery. We need a new paradigm for growth , new paradigm to grow faster, but its much better being rich and figuring things out then being a poor back ass country trying to climb out of the backwater and competing against China today.


Locke

 

[aurvandil]

Without the PAP, the alternative was a leftist party which would not have developed Singapore. True SG at that point was not a fishing village, but I can name you any no of countries in the sixties ex colonial who were left with schools ports , english education etc etc and who still fucked it up.

As I said, this is part of the PAP mythology. If you restrict yourself to the 1960s to the 1980s, then it is true that what the PAP achieved was an "economic miracle". If however you update yourself to the 1990s to present, then those growth rates which the PAP achieved are not so "miraculous" anymore. This is because by the 1990s, the key ingredients of the export led economic growth model had become textbook material. Regimes of all political stripes adopted it and were able to achieve smilar levels of economic growth. If you want to look for "leftist" party, then look at China and the strong economic growth in the cities using a model which is a direct copy of the Singapore model of export led growth.

The PAP's claim of "economic miracle" is therefore akin to the priests of old who did funny dances and then claim credit for making the sun rise every morning.

Also, being an astute poltical observer, you must have seen the following repeated again and again.

1) When times are bad, the PAP quickly tai-chi tha blame away as being due to "external factors".

2) When times are good, the PAP quickly jump in to claim credit and justify their million dollar salaries.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Arunvidial

I agree with the problems with the nineties, I would probably disagree with you about when the problem start and place it towards the late nineties but there is room for disagreement there.

As I stated to Scroobal, I am not about to go the other extreme and claim that the PAP and the old guard did nothing and it was pure luck and coincidence. We do have problems today but I am thankful to the PAP of old that we are facing the problems as a rich nation and not as a poor one.

There was an economic miracle, and yes the economic miracle has diminished but I am not about to deny that some form of economic miracle did take place and challenge my present well paid leaders to do as well as the first generation did or if not ask them why not.


Locke