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If you joined the workforce in the past 20 years (1990 to 2010), the "economic miracle" never happened.
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Singapore Fairies and Mrs Lee
- Thread starter scroobal
- Start date
If you joined the workforce in the past 20 years (1990 to 2010), the "economic miracle" never happened.
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I can tell you that the CPIB became very disillusioned thereafter.
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It was around this time they adopted a new doctrine against corruption. Instead of having an aggressive CPIB, they proposed to have obscenely high pay to battle corruption.
About 15 years on, we are starting to reap the fruits of this doctrine with corruption making a slow but steady comeback.
Was S'pore really that poor in the 60s and 70s that people live in abject poverty? Was there mass unemployment and beggars on the streets? I remember an old neighbour who was working only as a shop assistant and he was able to raise 6 kids plus his elderly mother. Wife not working and he did not need to take on a second job to supplement his income. And the family was able to live fairly comfortably too considering that they could afford a TV set and refrigerator at home. Another neighbour was a taxi driver and has to feed 4 children and rumoured to have a second wife outside.
So are we really better off today? Is it easy for our taxi drivers today to raise 4 kids? The term economic miracle, to me, is not right to describe the the phase that we have gone through or the path that we have taken....
So are we really better off today? Is it easy for our taxi drivers today to raise 4 kids? The term economic miracle, to me, is not right to describe the the phase that we have gone through or the path that we have taken....
Agree, bro. Not to speak ill of the dead. But the buttering is so sickening. Why have to invent her contributions?
but what's this about 2005? what happened? Can share?
but what's this about 2005? what happened? Can share?
i must say that a book on both Harry n Choo wif warts n all wld truly be a fascinating read n a sure blockbuster seller...present time is not right though...perhaps in another decade or so when all the dust settles...r so i hope!
do not want to be a curmudgeon n speak ill of the dead...but all the one sided glowing narrative in the msm is perhaps starting to get abit too thick...i mean even gillian koh is now getting in on the act...
to bring pple back to earth...Scotts21/Nassim Jade; HDB conveyancing n the sudden death of her first daughter-in-law; abolition of Estate/Death Duty...
in any event Mama Lee has had a great innings...icing on the cake was probably that special night in 2005...in this respect i am sure Harry wld agree...
PS. to be fair to Mama Lee i believe she sld be credited for her contribution wrt the Separation Agreement...
Interesingly one in the Kwa family is a well known archivist and a historian who has all the means to write that book. Note that the information in ST and that in the TV documentary are more or less identical inclduing the flow and gives the impression that the whole thing is pretty much organised and controlled from a single source. We are not talking about censoring but authored by the same source. Only NTUC version seems out of whack.
Gillian Koh must have the thickest skin in this country.
Note they were out of stock on materials that they had bring in the Jumbo jet and how her inner strength persevered.
The irony was the play-back of Dennis' comment about asking him to do the work as she did not want people to use her link as the PM's wife to ensure no improprietary is taking place. Somehow with the name Lee & Lee and the brother of the PM doing it seems ok.
When Kevin Rudd became PM, his wife Theresa who is millionaire put her business that stretched 2 continents into a blind thrust and stepped away. Yet the Mr. Squeaky clean and white than white happily is prayed to high heaven by idiots who have no clue.
Gillian Koh must have the thickest skin in this country.
Note they were out of stock on materials that they had bring in the Jumbo jet and how her inner strength persevered.
The irony was the play-back of Dennis' comment about asking him to do the work as she did not want people to use her link as the PM's wife to ensure no improprietary is taking place. Somehow with the name Lee & Lee and the brother of the PM doing it seems ok.
When Kevin Rudd became PM, his wife Theresa who is millionaire put her business that stretched 2 continents into a blind thrust and stepped away. Yet the Mr. Squeaky clean and white than white happily is prayed to high heaven by idiots who have no clue.
i must say that a book on both Harry n Choo wif warts n all wld truly be a fascinating read n a sure blockbuster seller...present time is not right though...perhaps in another decade or so when all the dust settles...r so i hope!
do not want to be a curmudgeon n speak ill of the dead...but all the one sided glowing narrative in the msm is perhaps starting to get abit too thick...i mean even gillian koh is now getting in on the act
to bring pple back to earth...Scotts21/Nassim Jade; HDB conveyancing n the sudden death of her first daughter-in-law; abolition of Estate/Death Duty...
in any event Mama Lee has had a great innings...icing on the cake was probably that special night in 2005
PS. to be fair to Mama Lee i believe she sld be credited for her contribution wrt the Separation Agreement...
Finally you meet the man - hope he hangs around. Now hopefuly we see Serendipity surface.
Bro, nobody is suggesting the other extreme and let us not be overly dramatic. See my comments about what they did . Some of you cannot except a single negative in a sheet of white washed positives.
The comments arise from is silly and ignorant comments about fishing village and such.
They did a remarkable job until the mid to late 80s. Then it seems to falter. In the political front, it never got better from 50 years ago.
The old man and his family is considered a paragon of incorruptly and virtue. I cited the case of Kevin Rudd's wife placing her business in blind trust and no longer ran the business to avoid any unfair advantage. So who is cleaner. This paragon refused to put in place a declaration of assets but GCT did it when the property lobby was too strong.
Not once, did the papers mention that Lee and Lee had the lucrative conveyancing contracts for HDB. I suppose you think that is urban myth. When Jayakumar was asked to join the government, his wife was offered a place with Lee and Lee. He did not ask for it but its the world's oldest practice - to offer tainted wine from a chalice (not poison but good enough to keep you in line). And guess whose Stat Board conveyancing she was doing.
You were a Malaysian who became a Singapore and we know that Malaysians compare Malaysia with Singapore and decide that Singapore is heaven. Our families on the other hand go back 150 years in Singapore and we seen it progress. We never compare with Malaysia.
50% of households probably have the documents from Lee & Lee and the family has never denied it but went to great length and gave the 2 egg in kway teow sermon in parliament when Nassim Jade took place. Guess which ex-PM's wife was offered a place with Lee & Lee.
If you are worried that old man and his wife's legacy is not captured accurately or no one seems to give credit for modern Singapore or have stated something negative that is wrong, let me know and I will put it right. Please don't raise hypothetical extreme scenarios when no one talked about it. If you think that PAP hold on parliament is an innocent judgement of error or they were just smarter in realising true democracy, let me know. You can't suck your lollipop and still have it.
The comments arise from is silly and ignorant comments about fishing village and such.
They did a remarkable job until the mid to late 80s. Then it seems to falter. In the political front, it never got better from 50 years ago.
The old man and his family is considered a paragon of incorruptly and virtue. I cited the case of Kevin Rudd's wife placing her business in blind trust and no longer ran the business to avoid any unfair advantage. So who is cleaner. This paragon refused to put in place a declaration of assets but GCT did it when the property lobby was too strong.
Not once, did the papers mention that Lee and Lee had the lucrative conveyancing contracts for HDB. I suppose you think that is urban myth. When Jayakumar was asked to join the government, his wife was offered a place with Lee and Lee. He did not ask for it but its the world's oldest practice - to offer tainted wine from a chalice (not poison but good enough to keep you in line). And guess whose Stat Board conveyancing she was doing.
You were a Malaysian who became a Singapore and we know that Malaysians compare Malaysia with Singapore and decide that Singapore is heaven. Our families on the other hand go back 150 years in Singapore and we seen it progress. We never compare with Malaysia.
50% of households probably have the documents from Lee & Lee and the family has never denied it but went to great length and gave the 2 egg in kway teow sermon in parliament when Nassim Jade took place. Guess which ex-PM's wife was offered a place with Lee & Lee.
If you are worried that old man and his wife's legacy is not captured accurately or no one seems to give credit for modern Singapore or have stated something negative that is wrong, let me know and I will put it right. Please don't raise hypothetical extreme scenarios when no one talked about it. If you think that PAP hold on parliament is an innocent judgement of error or they were just smarter in realising true democracy, let me know. You can't suck your lollipop and still have it.
You are spot on. There are people still stuck with properties that are negatively geared.
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Scroo
I have been in Singapore since my departed parents brought me over, but having relatives on both sides does offer a differing perspective. My disagreement was with those asserting that Singapore was not an accident of history but would have happened with anyone , due to our geographical position and the bountiful assets the British left us.
I do take and note your point on Kwa ( negatives warts and all ) and the issues raised but let that part of history for old man warts and all be judged when he to is dead and buried. All in all people will see him for the politician that he was and the extent to which he furthered his own interests over party interests and the interests of Singapore as a whole.
She is dead, and statistically LKY as well as he retires from politics and dominance and the more important question remains , who fill the vaccum , the void , which coalition of interests , political dynasties, party elders seniors, cardre's , will come together behind close doors to determine the fate of Singapore and the rest of us poor sods still around. Perhaps in the future the opposition can play its part but right now its a big fat no.
The quality of governance remains my utmost concern post LKY, because of LKY's belief and his dominance and ability in taking the competition out of politics in Singapore thus ensuring easy battles and lop sided wins for the PAP. In so much as I agree that Intellect is needed to govern, I hold that a heart is needed to govern wisely and that I see as sorely lacking in the political culture created by LKY , which remains his most lasting and in my view most poisonous legacy.
Some have bemoaned the lack of baptism of fire which the current generation of political leaders have been through. I would hold that LKY in removing all all challenges to his power is as much responsible for that lack of fire.
Locke
I have been in Singapore since my departed parents brought me over, but having relatives on both sides does offer a differing perspective. My disagreement was with those asserting that Singapore was not an accident of history but would have happened with anyone , due to our geographical position and the bountiful assets the British left us.
I do take and note your point on Kwa ( negatives warts and all ) and the issues raised but let that part of history for old man warts and all be judged when he to is dead and buried. All in all people will see him for the politician that he was and the extent to which he furthered his own interests over party interests and the interests of Singapore as a whole.
She is dead, and statistically LKY as well as he retires from politics and dominance and the more important question remains , who fill the vaccum , the void , which coalition of interests , political dynasties, party elders seniors, cardre's , will come together behind close doors to determine the fate of Singapore and the rest of us poor sods still around. Perhaps in the future the opposition can play its part but right now its a big fat no.
The quality of governance remains my utmost concern post LKY, because of LKY's belief and his dominance and ability in taking the competition out of politics in Singapore thus ensuring easy battles and lop sided wins for the PAP. In so much as I agree that Intellect is needed to govern, I hold that a heart is needed to govern wisely and that I see as sorely lacking in the political culture created by LKY , which remains his most lasting and in my view most poisonous legacy.
Some have bemoaned the lack of baptism of fire which the current generation of political leaders have been through. I would hold that LKY in removing all all challenges to his power is as much responsible for that lack of fire.
Locke
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There have already been some rumours floating around that once the funeral is over, there will be some strategic restructuring to secure the family's interest in a post LKY era. Heavy casualities among the current elite are expected. At this point, it is unknown if everyone will go quietly into the night or we will see more Tan Kin Lian's emerging.
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Dear Scroo
This will annoy you to no end, but I believe that Mdm Kwa has been given a gun carriage to bear her to Mandai. Not a full fledge state funeral aka Raja and Goh but a tepid half way wave :_)). I am starting to wonder about the behind the scenes role she played with LKY both good and bad. Btw I suspect some of the more ass licking compliments have been designed for the justification of this carriage.
Locke
This will annoy you to no end, but I believe that Mdm Kwa has been given a gun carriage to bear her to Mandai. Not a full fledge state funeral aka Raja and Goh but a tepid half way wave :_)). I am starting to wonder about the behind the scenes role she played with LKY both good and bad. Btw I suspect some of the more ass licking compliments have been designed for the justification of this carriage.
Locke
Actually I don' t mind the gun carriage. I am more concerned with those that paint an erroneous picture of the benevolent tyrant and his family. These are the times when I am sure we all wish that we had a free press and thus an honest portrayal.
Now let us sit back and see the chairs move.
Now let us sit back and see the chairs move.
I wonder if a leftist party would have taken root. Singapore had one essential ingredient and that is the large propulation of Chinese traders. They have been very successful in Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand and the Philippines and would have brought Singapore similar success. Taiwan and HK are other examples.
Thrift, importance of schools and strong family/clan unity and hardwork seem to be the common ingredient for success. At the basic heart is a capitalistic economic model. After all they are all traders. Profit is Good. So it was hard for communism to take root.
In a way, Singapore is no different from a large traditional Chinese control corp. Go see Li Kah Shing's ops. They have professional managers, hire lots of smart talented people but at the very top it is close family relations and loyal band of supporters. Decisions are made quickly without much public debate.
Thrift, importance of schools and strong family/clan unity and hardwork seem to be the common ingredient for success. At the basic heart is a capitalistic economic model. After all they are all traders. Profit is Good. So it was hard for communism to take root.
In a way, Singapore is no different from a large traditional Chinese control corp. Go see Li Kah Shing's ops. They have professional managers, hire lots of smart talented people but at the very top it is close family relations and loyal band of supporters. Decisions are made quickly without much public debate.
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Some numbers to ponder over.
GE2011 - Approximately 50% of the electorate would NOT have experienced the "economic miracle".
GE2016/2017 - 75% of the electorate would NOT have experienced the "economic miracle".
GE2021/2022 - 95% of the electorate would NOT have experienced the "economic miracle".
For those who did not experience the "economic miracle", all have endured the following:
1) Recession (multiple times)
2) Retrenchment
3) CPF cuts
4) Competition/Displacement by FT
5) Mortgages till 60 and beyond
6) Witholding of CPF funds to ever later wthdrawal age
7) Ever higher GST (10% after elections)
8) Ever higher govt rates and fees (e.g. COE, ERP)
9) Stagnating/declining income
Goh Meng Seng said it best when he coined the phrase - Most Singaporeans belong to the silent majority, not the stupid majority.
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The chinese term " No everlasting enemy and no everlasting friends" suggest and reflects in real life!
Your boss will never take into consideration the good work you have put in to the growth of the company but will magnify your latest screw up and that will be considered in your performance appraisal. For companies that has retrenched, most of the retrenched had put in great efforts in the growth of the company but was still sacrificed when the companies started having problems!
Your wife will never reflect on how considerate you have been and if you have been a saint, help her family financially so that her younger siblings can complete their higher education. Help her parents pay for their whatsoever whensoever. She now only knows that she smell women perfume on you & your clothes, even if you are innocent, you've been given the death penalty!
Same shit! Mental Mastiff might just have with a faint connection to the strong growth of stinkapore back then, now he and his regime are just leeches screwing the whole ecosystem and the whole ecosystem are festered with imported fauna that will eventually takeover the whole system and the aboriginal flora & fauna will be endangered and killed off! Your survival and your offsprings' survival is at stake, are you not going to act as a stakeholder and protect your own stake?
Your boss will never take into consideration the good work you have put in to the growth of the company but will magnify your latest screw up and that will be considered in your performance appraisal. For companies that has retrenched, most of the retrenched had put in great efforts in the growth of the company but was still sacrificed when the companies started having problems!
Your wife will never reflect on how considerate you have been and if you have been a saint, help her family financially so that her younger siblings can complete their higher education. Help her parents pay for their whatsoever whensoever. She now only knows that she smell women perfume on you & your clothes, even if you are innocent, you've been given the death penalty!
Same shit! Mental Mastiff might just have with a faint connection to the strong growth of stinkapore back then, now he and his regime are just leeches screwing the whole ecosystem and the whole ecosystem are festered with imported fauna that will eventually takeover the whole system and the aboriginal flora & fauna will be endangered and killed off! Your survival and your offsprings' survival is at stake, are you not going to act as a stakeholder and protect your own stake?
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Scotts28/Nassim Jade fiasco, clearly demonstrated the greed & hypocrisy of the Lee family...not only Harry & son but the oh so 'ethical & virtuous' Mama Lee & her nauseating self-righteous doctor daughter(btw why no public picture of her after all these days of shameless spin in MSM?)...best slap in the face to Harry & family was when GCT apparently declined to accept the 10% 'early bird' discounts offered by Harry & son to the State coffers
...Harry & family appeared to finally trip up on this one, in the full glare of public light...another apparent public trip up appears to be that shameless publicly stage managed 'Emperor & Empress Lee banquet' thrown at LHY's mansion by the arse licker chinese jap chef shown on channel U
finally this shamelessly stage managed spin in MSM wrt Mama Lee's death & wake leading to the military gun cortege is to me yet another public trip up...fact of the matter is Kwa Geok Choo never held any public office period...n there is no apparent objective legitimate justification that she made a purported "immeasurable contribution" to Singapore both pre & post 1959...save for the present MSM spin n the predictable arse licking fm the likes of WKS, LSS, Chua Thian Poh etc...i mean can u believe a chap of Fock Siew Wah's stature making this kind of statement:"...Mrs Lee had no airs about her and was always friendly and nice to ORDINARY MORTALS like us..."
...bloody hell this is the 21C n these arse lickers r acting as if we r living in Dynastic Feudal China!!!!...- Joined
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her darling eldest son finally became PM...n hence the circle was complete n she cld now RIP
...btw i forgot to mention another glaring shameless public trip up which resulted in unfortunate collateral damage @ Today newspaper
:p...Harry apparently 'commandeering' an SQ jumbo jet to medevac Mama Lee back to Singapore fm London in 2003...there was so much apparent 'noise' fm the public over the use of a public listed company's asset...that Harry's office had to make a public statement stating that Harry & family had personally paid for the medevac expenses...now whether this payment actually included the full proper accountable costs n expenses we do not know...as the amount of billings n payment did not appear to be disclosed in the public statement...i stand corrected on this one though as i cant fully remember the public statement...- Joined
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fm all that i hv read, seen n heard...i wld say that there is a huge list of "thickest skin in this country"...probably including the likes of WKS,LSS,Chua Thian Poh etc...n younger up coming 'bolt of lightning stars' like Steff Yuen Thio
yr pt on the L&L name n use of bro Dennis is spot on n oh sooo obvious...i bet even my young godson cld work this out...not only MaMa Lee n Dennis, what abt the rest of family including extended family...n the likes of other younger ministers n their families...not forgetting v close cronies...etc...only difference probably all 'leegal corruption'...also the timming of the abolition of Estate/Death Duty is oh so curious n interesting...
yr pt on the L&L name n use of bro Dennis is spot on n oh sooo obvious...i bet even my young godson cld work this out...not only MaMa Lee n Dennis, what abt the rest of family including extended family...n the likes of other younger ministers n their families...not forgetting v close cronies...etc...only difference probably all 'leegal corruption'...also the timming of the abolition of Estate/Death Duty is oh so curious n interesting...
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v well said Bro
...
pple like Toh Chin Chye n later Ngiam Tong Dow use to imply the same attitude...
btw i find it v curious n strange not to hv seen TCC's name in the std exPaP MP comrades obituary to Balaji...also note his apparent conspicuous public absence fm MaMa Lee's wake...
which leads to the Q as to whether TCC shall get a state funeral or at the v least a military public cortege?
...pple like Toh Chin Chye n later Ngiam Tong Dow use to imply the same attitude...
btw i find it v curious n strange not to hv seen TCC's name in the std exPaP MP comrades obituary to Balaji...also note his apparent conspicuous public absence fm MaMa Lee's wake...
which leads to the Q as to whether TCC shall get a state funeral or at the v least a military public cortege?
