Scrapping of EP - do you agree?

[Perspective]

Well the WP certainly does because it helps install a pro-PAP President and also weakens Parliament's rightful role over reserves. Now that an opposition President was nearly installed took away one of the reasons, I am not sure if the stand still holds.

But I feel it is ironic that the President should represent all interests would be impossible if it becomes PAP vs oppostion, and I think it works if various important groups in Singapore elect the President, like the electoral college of USA. The only reason why people would disagree is because it removes people's one more chance to vote.

 

[Narong Wongwan]

So what even if everyone agrees?
60% also agreed to write them a blank cheque.

 

[hairylee]

They should let the EP be the moral compass of the country but PAP just want it to be its extended arm.

 

[Kid278]

I would say scrap it. All this notion about guarding the national reserves are pure bullshits when no one actually knows anything about anything. Until there's a referendum by the electorate that amends the constitution such that the presidency is accorded with proper authority and executive powers of the people, this office makes no sense and serve no purpose. A head of state that just rubber stamps, shake hands and cuts ribbons is ridiculous, it's a joke.

 

[po2wq]

ya, man! ... reserfs got how much oso dunno ... guard wat? ... how can u b guarding sumting which u dunno anyting about? ... skali prez found out he guarding n m-t shell ...

 

[sense]

Well the WP certainly does because it helps install a pro-PAP President and also weakens Parliament's rightful role over reserves. Now that an opposition President was nearly installed took away one of the reasons, I am not sure if the stand still holds.But I feel it is ironic that the President should represent all interests would be impossible if it becomes PAP vs oppostion, and I think it works if various important groups in Singapore elect the President, like the electoral college of USA. The only reason why people would disagree is because it removes people's one more chance to vote.

Scrap EP and allows the PAP to appoint a president of their choice?What are you and WP thinking?

 

[scroobal]

That's is exactly right. In view of our history of walk-overs, poor climate of encouraging good candidates such as threats, high hurdles and general oppression, any opportunity to express our views and see some excitement at a national level, any form of election is welcomed. The fact that many genuinely treated this as GE including 2 candidates tells a lot.

The only reason why people would disagree is because it removes people's one more chance to vote.

 

[steffychun]

Largely agree. What's the use of parliament then? Do they not control the usage of funds/reserves?

 

[Forvendet]

Scrap EP and allows the PAP to appoint a president of their choice?What are you and WP thinking?

We're supposed to be a parliamentary democracy. Removing EP means restoring Parliament as a whole. The president should be ceremonial, that I agree, no tomfoolery rights with the reserves, only Parliament. In Parliament, the Opposition checks and balances the Government, not the President. He's supposed to be appointed by Parliament to represent the assent to laws and wills of the people. He should have nothing to do with political and executive decisions, including reserves. The system has worked well since Singapore without white majority and complication from the Malaysian merger couldn't possibly invite the QE as head of state at the time of indpendence. It was LKY fear of losing power and protective over LHL that he invented this PE system.

Largely agree. What's the use of parliament then? Do they not control the usage of funds/reserves?

 

[steffychun]

We're supposed to be a parliamentary democracy. Removing EP means restoring Parliament as a whole. The president should be ceremonial, that I agree, no tomfoolery rights with the reserves, only Parliament. In Parliament, the Opposition checks and balances the Government, not the President. He's supposed to be appointed by Parliament to represent the assent to laws and wills of the people. He should have nothing to do with political and executive decisions, including reserves. The system has worked well since Singapore without white majority and complication from the Malaysian merger couldn't possibly invite the QE as head of state at the time of indpendence. It was LKY fear of losing power and protective over LHL that he invented this PE system.

And that is why TJS should not have been President. He would claim all the attention and reduce the focus on WP MPs in parliament.

 

[methink]

And that is why TJS should not have been President. He would claim all the attention and reduce the focus on WP MPs in parliament.

Doggie stuffychute, you are back for your night shift in ISD?

Dun talk nonsense can? The president cannot do the work of opposition MPs in parleement.

 

[HTOLAS]

Scrap EP. Return the presidency to its ceremonial role.

The whole notion of the president guarding the reserves is ludicrous. Why should we trust the 'wisdom' of one person over that of the majority of parliament? If we truly want such a second key, elect a second (much smaller) chamber and give them custodial powers. We can actually start this second chamber by electing the council of presidential advisors, and granting them the custodial powers.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

Frankly, I have never been a fan of the Westminister system of Government. Parliamentary Democracy is a very limited democracy. The people do not vote the leader of the country. The party that wins, elect their leader which becomes PM. Countries with the Westminister system gets 'captured' by the people controlling the party who are no elected. Look at the Labour and Liberal Party in Australia. The un-elected heads of these parties control the party, the people vote in the party but un elected control everything.

Its better to have a non-partisan elected President. At least I vote for the leader of the country, not some political party that works behind close doors and select their own leaders from within. Look at Singapore now, PAP controlled by the Oligarchs. and they control the government. So much power in so few hands. No accountability. The West Minister system is such a system.

 

[steffychun]

Frankly, I have never been a fan of the Westminister system of Government. Parliamentary Democracy is a very limited democracy. The people do not vote the leader of the country. The party that wins, elect their leader which becomes PM. Countries with the Westminister system gets 'captured' by the people controlling the party who are no elected. Look at the Labour and Liberal Party in Australia. The un-elected heads of these parties control the party, the people vote in the party but un elected control everything.

Its better to have a non-partisan elected President. At least I vote for the leader of the country, not some political party that works behind close doors and select their own leaders from within. Look at Singapore now, PAP controlled by the Oligarchs. and they control the government. So much power in so few hands. No accountability. The West Minister system is such a system.

Would you have the US system where he Cabinet are chosen by the President and not the people?

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

If there is no EP, the PAP will install its own puppet president.

At least with EP, even if the PAP's candidate wins, voters have a chance to show their discontent.

More choice, more opportunity for expression, is better than less.

I am surprised WP used to think less opportunity for expression is better. I'm glad it has since changed its stand since the 2011PE.

Electoral college is for a country where pop is spread out over large land mass and there is a need to incentivise politicians to pay attention to different tribles/communities. SG stretches 60km coast to coast. Why do we need EC? How many EC votes would the gay community have? The anti-death penalty group?

Well the WP certainly does because it helps install a pro-PAP President and also weakens Parliament's rightful role over reserves. Now that an opposition President was nearly installed took away one of the reasons, I am not sure if the stand still holds.

But I feel it is ironic that the President should represent all interests would be impossible if it becomes PAP vs oppostion, and I think it works if various important groups in Singapore elect the President, like the electoral college of USA. The only reason why people would disagree is because it removes people's one more chance to vote.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

anyway since perspective brought up Electoral College, it might be helpful to bear in mind that the large majority of US presidents was elected with a simple numerical majority. Noteworthy exception being of course George Bush 2000

 

[The_Hypocrite]

Would you have the US system where he Cabinet are chosen by the President and not the people?

The USA system on Paper is better, but the people must be united and there is a strong sense of identity. If the country is fragmented, the USA system will be worse. But looking at the Westminister System, the cabinet is not elected by the people. Cabinet ministers are chosen by the party. And often many of the cabinet ministers know nuts about the ministries they are running anyway.

For the USA system, the cabinet serves at the President's pleasure. Can be sack anytime, in the west minister system its a cabinet reshuffle. For the USA, cabinet must be approve by the senate etc a which are the elected representatives so there are checks and balances. Cabinet members are also often experts in their field. (Like Robert Gates).

For Singapore's case because the ruling party controls everything which is nothing more than a 1 party dictatorship. an elected President will help balance out the excesses. That is why i prefer a Presidential system as compared to a full West Minister system. There are just too much horse trading and control by unelected party heads for the british system.

 

[Ramseth]

anyway since perspective brought up Electoral College, it might be helpful to bear in mind that the large majority of US presidents was elected with a simple numerical majority. Noteworthy exception being of course George Bush 2000

The electoral college is required because the US is a big federation of many states. The voters in a state vote as a state. The one with most state electoral college votes wins, not the one with the most votes all across the US. Each state is accorded a number of electoral college votes according to its size. The US President is both Head of Government and Head of State. He appoints the Cabinet.

Less than simple majority votes government can happen in Westminster or Singapore system too. Each constituency has one seat Parliament. The party with the most seats forms the Government, not necessarily with the most votes all across Singapore. The leader of the winning party becomes Head of Government (Prime Minister) and appoints the Cabinet. In constitutional monarchies, the Monarch is always Head of State and there's no problem with the distinction of roles and duties.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

dear, i have access to wikipedia too

The electoral college is required because the US is a big federation of many states. The voters in a state vote as a state. The one with most state electoral college votes wins, not the one with the most votes all across the US. Each state is accorded a number of electoral college votes according to its size. The US President is both Head of Government and Head of State. He appoints the Cabinet.

Less than simple majority votes government can happen in Westminster or Singapore system too. Each constituency has one seat Parliament. The party with the most seats forms the Government, not necessarily with the most votes all across Singapore. The leader of the winning party becomes Head of Government (Prime Minister) and appoints the Cabinet. In constitutional monarchies, the Monarch is always Head of State and there's no problem with the distinction of roles and duties.

 

[Ramseth]

dear, i have access to wikipedia too

Good, use it.