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Questions On Singapore Laws - Arrest, Remand, State Courts

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
#41
2. Yup sentence has not been passed. Will not be deemed guilty until sentence has been passed. Remand is a holding period so that the person dun run road and will go to court. Bail is the alternative (privileged) way of assuring court appearance.
3. There is no legal requirement that a judge factor in restitution into a judgment and a sentence. There is however a convention to do so. I don't know if any judge ever goes against that convention. The legal requirements are simple. The money was stolen. Therefore a law was infringed. After the arrest was made, the justice machine goes to work on that charge and secures a judgment and if guilty a sentence. The restitution is then considered as a mitigating factor. By 100% right, the judge need not consider it. AFAIK they do.
4. Again, that's the convention esp. in Singapore. There is however nothing to stop the judge throwing the maximum sentence at a convict if he/she feels the urge to do so. Of course, if blatantly unfair can appeal. Then becomes another story.

Allow me to read between the lines so that I can better answer your doubts. You're concerned that your friends gets judged guilty, sentenced to deportation and has criminal record and can never return to Singapore rite?

Ok. I am not a practicing lawyer in Singapore, but 1stly, if you want not go to guilty judgment, you kinda too late. Since you paid the $1,200, could you have asked the landlord to withdraw the complaint? Now all evidence in front of the court, they have to convict because, money was taken, complaint was filed. They probably give a slap on the wrist, because the sum was small and you paid full, but still too late for the judgment itself because the judge is compelled by the rule of law to find guilty if all the requirements are met. i.e. money taken, sum taken etc etc. Unless you get some kinda superstar lawyer who can somehow black turn white.

Sorry to give bad news, but if it's that important, find a well known professional. If you're worried about the sentence, I wouldn't it's going to be next to nothing, but if you're worried about the record go find the lawyer.
No, I am concern that, the person is given a fair deal. OK, money stolen, crime committed , full restitution made. Reading from it they make sure that this person sepnd 14 days in remand & could have just charge the person on the 1st hearing, after all, in the next hearing, the same old charge..nothing new.

I was sitting in the open court, it was like this, 11am, the person was brought out in brown prison uniform, court clerk spoke to accused & then brought in, court went on with other business. Then 11.30am, accused was brought out..judge read charge, the police stood up, mumbled something, judge says, adjourn next week different time, same court. Accused was given a paper & led away.

Ok...I am just hoping that, with mitigating factor of a restitution,( the $1,200 was paid to the IO, who was not happy in seeing it, by the look on the face) the sentencing will be say two weeks, back date.. person, be releases & deported, that is all. If one months jail, for instance...do you deduct Sats & Suns?

One curious thing is, I want to ask, did the restitution of the $1,200 influenced the police to delay the judgment by a week??

This is what I want to know actually...
 

nightsafari

Alfrescian
Loyal
#42
No, I am concern that, the person is given a fair deal. OK, money stolen, crime committed , full restitution made. Reading from it they make sure that this person sepnd 14 days in remand & could have just charge the person on the 1st hearing, after all, in the next hearing, the same old charge..nothing new.

I was sitting in the open court, it was like this, 11am, the person was brought out in brown prison uniform, court clerk spoke to accused & then brought in, court went on with other business. Then 11.30am, accused was brought out..judge read charge, the police stood up, mumbled something, judge says, adjourn next week different time, same court. Accused was given a paper & led away.

Ok...I am just hoping that, with mitigating factor of a restitution,( the $1,200 was paid to the IO, who was not happy in seeing it, by the look on the face) the sentencing will be say two weeks, back date.. person, be releases & deported, that is all. If one months jail, for instance...do you deduct Sats & Suns?

One curious thing is, I want to ask, did the restitution of the $1,200 influenced the police to delay the judgment by a week??

This is what I want to know actually...
First of all, just to be clear, I am NOT a legal professional anywhere or at anytime nor am I associated with anything or anyone remotely in the legal field. This is just an opinion from a kaypoh and you should treat it as such.

I'm afraid that the restitution did not delay the judgment at all. There is a curious thing about the legal system. It's called a pre-trial hearing. I don't really know every last reason for the pretrial, but the gist of it is that during the actual trial itself they want as little sidetracking and time wasting as possible. They want to make sure that there is really a reason to hear a case. Sometimes during a pretrial, the judge may decide to throw the whole case out. This doesn't seem to be what happened here so they are going ahead with the full trial.

I'm also afraid to say that paying the $1200 to IO doesn't really do much until the judge passes sentencing. It is not factored in guilty / innocent judgment. If argued well, it will affect the sentencing, but that's at the whim of the judge. I'm speculating here, but the IO can be tulan for a number of reasons :
  1. Haiyah more paperwork now have to call victim and document the receipt of money custody chain
  2. Haiyah now look like bodoh have to do paperwork. Already send whole case to court. Why never come and pay the landlord earlier then everything suak suak I no need cho kang and no need to go court
  3. Haiyah no chance for me to tekan some poor foreigner coolie, I really love to see the judge give max sentence.
  4. Who knows?
At this point, a guilty judgment seems quite likely. This statement : "OK, money stolen, crime committed , full restitution made" should mean that intuitively everything is settled which you and I and normal people will feel. But because we follow the English legal system, it makes no allowance for everything is settled. If the plaintiff, in this case the state and the agent of the state, say the police (I actually think it's the public prosecutor) pursue the charges, it is the duty of the court to hear it. Then it comes down to "tests" of guilt. Something like got something of value taken. If yes 1 strike. Every charge has a certain number of strikes to prove guilty. Some only require 1 strike others require some combination. Really if there is enough evidence that counts as a strike and the plaintiff pursues the case, that's it. normally guilty. Doesn't matter what you do after, before or during. So long as it meets the "tests" case closed.

Whether this is fair deal or not unfortunately is not part of the justice system. You, me and most normal people will care about fair deal. However the justice system does not care. Imagine a machine that you feed in accused people into. Plaintiff (Accuser) and Defendant (Defender) will argue all their points, finally the machine totals up the score and either spits the person into guilty or not guilty pile. That is all. As far as the legal system is concerned, the fact that you get passed through this machine at all is a fair deal. Mitigating factors, are dependent upon the judge and how lenient they are, but can only affect the length and severity of sentence. It cannot affect the judgment of guilty/NG once the tests are met. The judge cannot rewrite the law, only interpret it. However, it is possible to get the sentence reduced. Sometimes to 0.

I am also afraid that minimally, I'm guessing that your friend absent(without) the superstar lawyer may have to spend some time in jail and then be deported after that. I'm also afraid that the criminal record will be attached. At this point, you just need a superstar lawyer to keep this from happening.

Other small notes.
  1. The piece of paper is probably to inform them of their legal rights. That is go and get a lawyer if they want
  2. While time in remand is counted against the sentence, don't bet on the sentence being short enough to allow them to be shipped out once the case is heard. The sentence could be months.
  3. Sat and Sun is still a day spent in jail so it counts.
  4. The next hearing is the one where you get to use a superstar lawyer for all it's worth (maybe worth nothing) to defend your friend. That is when the lawyer will seek to discredit the state's case and hopefully minus enough strikes.
To mention again, I'm not a legal professional. Please do not use this advice to make decisions. I'm only giving this advice so you go see a lawyer. This is hearsay advice on hearsay details from some internet crackpot and is in no way any kind of substitute for a legal professional. If you're genuinely concerned and wish to give your friend a fair deal, seriously go and consult a pro. Most of the good ones will listen for free for a few minutes and tell you got hope or not. They will only start charging once they decide to take your case and don't worry they are bound by law to keep everything you say to them a secret once you've engaged them. Again confirm all I've said with a legal pro. So long as you're not intending to commit another new crime, they always do keep quiet.

I'm sorry I have no better news for you. All the best :thumbsup:
 

eatshitndie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
#43
s380 case. up to 3 years, a fine, or both. restitution does not negate the offense and is no legal defense. hopefully may get reduced sentence if plead guilty and remorseful.
 

Tony Tan

Alfrescian
Loyal
#44
You might be Lawyer or know the law better but based on my experience almost all cases can be backdated if got remand period.
Only when you bail out in between then no count but if bail out after 2 months remand also can count back.
Only in cases like CT and PD usually no backdate BUT then I’ve seen the odd case or two when CT sentence got backdate also.
I’ve also seen judge advising the remand defendant to plead guilty on the spot promising that the sentence to be meted out is shorter than remand period already served so remandee can walk free as soon as sentenced

In general, judges accept this consideration of remand time. But not automatically. It is the power of district judges. And it is also up to the DPP to object, if they can raise some reasons, but rare lah. Any way district judge will listen from both sides and rule. And yet, if any side Buay Song about the ruling can still fucking go file appeal against sentence at high court. Criminal Registry at State Court can accept filing of NOTICE OF APPEAL, and must serve a copy of that to DPP @ AGC. Cases got PG, and then appeal for lighter sentences, looking for some reasons and grounds to appeal, some lawyers are very good at these. DPP can also appeal against sentence to apply to high court to revise higher penalties, rare but got examples.

If plan to appeal against sentence after PG, and tell judge on the spot after sentencing, and apply to STAY sentence, pending appeal, if sentence got jail time, can even apply for bail, pending appeal. DPP can also object and gave their reasons. But usually stay of sentences can be granted pending appeal against sentences. NOTICE OF APPEAL must file within something like 6 days if I remember correctly. I filed several on the spot, prepared printed Notice of Appeal before hand on scheduled day of sentencing, within 10 mins the sentencing session adjourned, I file Notices downstairs @ Crime Registry.

Appeal is up to high court to fix hearing date which may be long time. Hence, application for bail and stay sentence of imprisonment can usually be granted by district judges, and in these rather non-violence and no flight risk cases, DPPs lack grounds to object. If you appeal, they just have to Lan-Lan do more works. Buay Song but LL.
 

Tony Tan

Alfrescian
Loyal
#45
s380 case. up to 3 years, a fine, or both. restitution does not negate the offense and is no legal defense. hopefully may get reduced sentence if plead guilty and remorseful.

Criminal laws can argue a lot and spin a lot one. If your defense lawyers are powerful.

You can cook many kinds of defenses:

  • drunken act
  • illusion act
  • revenge / feud
  • victimized (counter-victimization)
  • mistake / misled
  • misunderstood act
  • negligence act
  • scapegoat defense
  • miscarriage of justice defense
  • framed by 3rd party defense
  • Forced to plead guilty / assume responsibility of crime defense

You try to watch out bastard Najib's case he sure hire expensive powerful spin-doctor defense lawyers.

Justice in court are jokes, and courts is a perfect play ground for crooks.

Honest modest citizens wrongly perceived the courts - anywhere! These are called 老实人不知官府黑暗阴险 吃大亏 白白送死!

See the Malaysian court just released the alleged killer of VX Kim? Amount to acquittal - dropped charges, based on scapegoat defense. See fucking bastard Najib can still come out on bail Yahyah and celebrate BN winning by-election. Where got justice? He should had been shot by summery execution without trial! That is straight justice!
 

Tony Tan

Alfrescian
Loyal
#46
Wild example just to illustrate a mitigation story. Tenant can say, I plotted a prank against another tenant, just for joke, because that other tenant previously had stolen some of my cash to make me panic, but returned to me later. However, I stole from the wrong person by mistake, and had stolen the landlord's money instead. When I found out it was mistake, I was too scared to own up, until I got arrested, and had since paid back the stolen money in full, just a mistake, intended for joke with a third party. You can also say not other tenant, may be say landload's child if any.

Since Pleaded Guilty there is no trial, there is witnesses to call. No evidence induced by any side. So you can cook these things not on oath and not as evidence, just purely defense arguments for mitigation. DPP can call this rubbish, or have no idea at all, very hard to counter your arguments.

This kind of mitigation defense worked in many criminal assault cases, or rioting cases, by claiming mistaken identity. Say, you got charged for whacking up someone. You can submit mitigation that you had been whacked by someone else some timer ago, and you believe you were taking revenge against your assailant. You can insist you recognized precisely, that was the same person. But say you have no evidence, neither the police do, and the other party surely denied had ever assaulted you, but judges have reason to believe you, because you all are fucking Bai Kias whole life fighting. You can even claim that the other guy raped your whole family, but don't go over-board and become ineradicable, not effective already.

Tenant can claim landlord molested him, or demanded sexual favors and promised $1200 reward but failed to pay up so, stolen $1200 to make even. If tenant look like CAQ the judge will laugh and believe.
 

eatshitndie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
#47
Criminal laws can argue a lot and spin a lot one. If your defense lawyers are powerful.

You can cook many kinds of defenses:

  • drunken act
  • illusion act
  • revenge / feud
  • victimized (counter-victimization)
  • mistake / misled
  • misunderstood act
  • negligence act
  • scapegoat defense
  • miscarriage of justice defense
  • framed by 3rd party defense
  • Forced to plead guilty / assume responsibility of crime defense

You try to watch out bastard Najib's case he sure hire expensive powerful spin-doctor defense lawyers.

Justice in court are jokes, and courts is a perfect play ground for crooks.

Honest modest citizens wrongly perceived the courts - anywhere! These are called 老实人不知官府黑暗阴险 吃大亏 白白送死!

See the Malaysian court just released the alleged killer of VX Kim? Amount to acquittal - dropped charges, based on scapegoat defense. See fucking bastard Najib can still come out on bail Yahyah and celebrate BN winning by-election. Where got justice? He should had been shot by summery execution without trial! That is straight justice!
most likely not more than 6.9 months with mitigating circumstances and size of loot. almost sama sama with hooker stealing from client while he’s asleep. wallet money, but whether wallet holds $69 or $6.9k theft is still theft. it’s unlike small claims with many bargaining chips in a civil case.
 

Tony Tan

Alfrescian
Loyal
#48
most likely not more than 6.9 months with mitigating circumstances and size of loot. almost sama sama with hooker stealing from client while he’s asleep. wallet money, but whether wallet holds $69 or $6.9k theft is still theft. it’s unlike small claims with many bargaining chips in a civil case.

Best argument for mitigation for tenant / landlord is money dispute.

Tenant can claim that landlord had promised $1500 rent discount because complains made of e.g. aircond not working for months etc. And later landlord ate his own words, never gave discount, and tenant Tuu Lan go still $1200 back to make even.

Tenant can claim landlord asked tenant to clean up whole house promising to pay $300/month and had been owing for months, so urgently need money, go steal back some 1st.

Tenant can claim landlord is responsible for causing injures or property losses over $2000, e.g. forgot to lock door causing handphone / laptop / camera to be stolen by unknown thieves. And had refuse to make compensation. So steal back $1200 to compensate own losses.

All these similar shits can cook and mitigate. Hard to prove, and LL.
 

eatshitndie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
#49
Best argument for mitigation for tenant / landlord is money dispute.

Tenant can claim that landlord had promised $1500 rent discount because complains made of e.g. aircond not working for months etc. And later landlord ate his own words, never gave discount, and tenant Tuu Lan go still $1200 back to make even.

Tenant can claim landlord asked tenant to clean up whole house promising to pay $300/month and had been owing for months, so urgently need money, go steal back some 1st.

Tenant can claim landlord is responsible for causing injures or property losses over $2000, e.g. forgot to lock door causing handphone / laptop / camera to be stolen by unknown thieves. And had refuse to make compensation. So steal back $1200 to compensate own losses.

All these similar shits can cook and mitigate. Hard to prove, and LL.
depends on whether she’s chiobu and there’s prior quid pro quo or hanky panky activity in the premise. such as landlard allowed tenant to use his petty cash but when relationship went south landlard became petty. but if he’s an uncle and landlard is no homo all bets are off.
 

Tony Tan

Alfrescian
Loyal
#52
depends on whether she’s chiobu and there’s prior quid pro quo or hanky panky activity in the premise. such as landlard allowed tenant to use his petty cash but when relationship went south landlard became petty. but if he’s an uncle and landlard is no homo all bets are off.

Criminal defense is tricky dirty business.

Some times the defense lawyer has profound background until district judges are afraid of him. E.g. Emeritus Court of Appeal (highest) judge became criminal lawyer.

Plead bargain schemes, lawyer say client willing to plead guilty to a lesser penalty charge and suggest charge to be amended.

E.g. you charged murder, offer to PG for man-slaughter. Game for the DPP to weight the saving of time and works. DPP not calling the shots here, AGC PP is the one.

Like this case theft charge can offer PG dishonest appropriation of properties. Tenant can claim the landlord carelessly dropped cash at sofa or where ever, and found by tenant. Unless got video or witness. How to prove?

Then trick of PG, and then appealing for reduced sentence. The prosecution have no idea what lawyer have up in the sleeve. May accepted the Plead Bargain, amended for a lower charge. Get conviction, then cook a good story to submit mitigation. Get sentenced. Then file the fucking appeal to apply for a further reduced sentence, cooking some more new stories.

Prosecution tot they saved time and finished off the case already, KNN go to argue again at high court for appeal. Si Beh Tuu Lan.

For example, kenna to be deported. Lawyer can file appeal, apply for stay of deportation, and apply repeatedly for deferred appeal trial date, the convict stays in SG! Even lost the appeal eventually or appeal got dismissed. Still can abuse legal process to buy time. Court and law is up to bastards and unjust culprits to abuse. That is reality in this world. Only humble honest and upright peasants are suckers in this world - anywhere any time! For eternity!
 
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eatshitndie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
#53
Criminal defense is tricky dirty business.

Some times the defense lawyer has profound background until district judges are afraid of him. E.g. Emeritus Court of Appeal (highest) judge became criminal lawyer.

Plead bargain schemes, lawyer say client willing to plead guilty to a lesser penalty charge and suggest charge to be amended.

E.g. you charged murder, offer to PG for man-slaughter. Game for the DPP to weight the saving of time and works. DPP not calling the shots here, AGC PP is the one.

Like this case theft charge can offer PG dishonest appropriation of properties. Tenant can claim the landlord carelessly dropped cash at sofa or where ever, and found by tenant. Unless got video or witness. How to prove?

Then trick of PG, and then appealing for reduced sentence. The prosecution have no idea what lawyer have up in the sleeve. May accepted the Plead Bargain, amended for a lower charge. Get conviction, then cook a good story to submit mitigation. Get sentenced. Then file the fucking appeal to apply for a further reduced sentence, cooking some more new stories.

Prosecution tot they saved time and finished off the case already, KNN go to argue again at high court for appeal. Si Beh Tuu Lan.

For example, kenna to be deported. Lawyer can file appeal, apply for stay of deportation, and apply repeatedly for deferred appeal trial date, the convict stays in SG! Even lost the appeal eventually or appeal got dismissed. Still can abuse legal process to buy time. Court and law is up to bastards and unjust culprits to abuse. That is reality in this world. Only humble honest and upright peasants are suckers in this world - anywhere any time! For eternity!
best is rent from landlady. no money for rent still got lobang to fuck.
 

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
#54
"I'm also afraid to say that paying the $1200 to IO doesn't really do much until the judge passes sentencing. It is not factored in guilty / innocent judgment. If argued well, it will affect the sentencing, but that's at the whim of the judge. I'm speculating here, but the IO can be tulan for a number of reasons"

But, the first phone call I received from the accused, very brief after arrest & was , the lawyer here says, "better pay all the amount stolen" & I was given, the IO full name & contact number & the station. From the tone of my friend that this is important " will save his life" tone. But I didn't go down immediately, but a day later; like I had mentioned the I.O. doesn't sound pleased that, restitution money was raised & look pleased when receiving it. So, does a full restitution helps or not?

"The judge cannot rewrite the law, only interpret it. However, it is possible to get the sentence reduced. Sometimes to 0."
This I am aware of, what I research & read up on the internet, cases like this, first time offender of amount stolen of this nature, One, the amount stolen was more than $5,000, & it was mentioned in the news report, no restitution was made & the sentencing was a month in jail. The second was almost similar amount, full restitution was made & the news report mention that, sentencing was two weeks. The latter is the one, I am hoping for. The two weeks spend in remand should count as the time spent in jail & like you have said, hoping that it is possible that the sentence is reduced to zero & gets sent back to where the person originate. Are we going to say, the judges here decision depends on if the had a good breakfast today or had a good f#$#$k the night before? surely not right?

What I do not understand is, why the case was not heard at the first hearing, after all, there was no new evidence presented & the charge for the second is the same.
( the second brief phone call from after the court appearance from my friend, I ask, " how are you & how are they treating you, was told, it was good". I mentioned that the full amount stolen was paid to the I.O., " is it?", next was, I am still in jail. Then my friend said, don't know why, they adjourned the hearing to another week, then, the line was cut"). Why was the restitution made not mentioned in court during the first hearing?

A matter a curiosity, when one is being held in remand before sentencing, one is not actually is in jail right? I noticed that the uniform worn was brown in coloured & read somewhere on the internet, that is what those in remand wears.

What is the difference between remand & PRISON? They get free medical check up right? What is the daily routine at remand & prison, are they the same?

Lastly, if the charge is reduced to zero & time spent in remand is counted as the sentencing, assuming & how soon, will this person be deported out of Singapore. I have no physical contact with the accused since arrest. Will the person be brought back to the landlord place, pack the things or the landlord pack all the things & give to the police or ICA? Will I be able to say hello to the accused at the airport & will I be able to know the flight details?
 
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Narong Wongwan

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
#55
"I'm also afraid to say that paying the $1200 to IO doesn't really do much until the judge passes sentencing. It is not factored in guilty / innocent judgment. If argued well, it will affect the sentencing, but that's at the whim of the judge. I'm speculating here, but the IO can be tulan for a number of reasons"

But, the first phone call I received from the accused, very brief after arrest & was , the lawyer here says, "better pay all the amount stolen" & I was given, the IO full name & contact number & the station. From the tone of my friend that this is important " will save his life" tone. But I didn't go down immediately, but a day later; like I had mentioned the I.O. doesn't sound pleased that, restitution money was raised & look pleased when receiving it. So, does a full restitution helps or not?

"The judge cannot rewrite the law, only interpret it. However, it is possible to get the sentence reduced. Sometimes to 0."
This I am aware of, what I research & read up on the internet, cases like this, first time offender of amount stolen of this nature, One, the amount stolen was more than $5,000, & it was mentioned in the news report, no restitution was made & the sentencing was a month in jail. The second was almost similar amount, full restitution was made & the news report mention that, sentencing was two weeks. The latter is the one, I am hoping for. The two weeks spend in remand should count as the time spent in jail & like you have said, hoping that it is possible that the sentence is reduced to zero & gets sent back to where the person originate. Are we going to say, the judges here decision depends on if the had a good breakfast today or had a good f#$#$k the night before? surely not right?

What I do not understand is, why the case was not heard at the first hearing, after all, there was no new evidence presented & the charge for the second is the same.
( the second brief phone call from after the court appearance from my friend, I ask, " how are you & how are they treating you, was told, it was good". I mentioned that the full amount stolen was paid to the I.O., " is it?", next was, I am still in jail. Then my friend said, don't know why, they adjourned the hearing to another week, then, the line was cut"). Why was the restitution made not mentioned in court during the first hearing?

A matter a curiosity, when one is being held in remand before sentencing, one is not actually is in jail right? I noticed that the uniform worn was brown in coloured & read somewhere on the internet, that is what those in remand wears.

What is the difference between remand & PRISON? They get free medical check up right? What is the daily routine at remand & prison, are they the same?

Lastly, if the charge is reduced to zero & time spent in remand is counted as the sentencing, assuming & how soon, will this person be deported out of Singapore. I have no physical contact with the accused since arrest. Will the person be brought back to the landlord place, pack the things or the landlord pack all the things & give to the police or ICA? Will I be able to say hello to the accused at the airport & will I be able to know the flight details?
There’s not much difference between remand inmates and sentenced inmates.
They’re housed in same cells and basically same routine. Same food same clothes (different Color shorts).
Subtle differences like remandees no need to cut allowed more visits. But that’s about it.

Deportation if it happens will be by ICA. From ICA escort to airport. He won’t see Singapore from the outside until at the airport.
 

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
#56
There’s not much difference between remand inmates and sentenced inmates.
They’re housed in same cells and basically same routine. Same food same clothes (different Color shorts).
Subtle differences like remandees no need to cut allowed more visits. But that’s about it.

Deportation if it happens will be by ICA. From ICA escort to airport. He won’t see Singapore from the outside until at the airport.
What will be a basic routine be like? Exercise, attend classes if any, recreation & time in bed at what time?

Will the person be taken to the landlord place, pack the bags etc..or the landlord packed all the belongings and hand it over to the police or ICA? At the time of the arrest, will the police have confiscated all the belongings of the accused? as evidence or search for evidence.

One more thing, during investigation, the police will check all the accused bank accounts right? plus seeking information from the remittances services here, like Western Union, Money Gram etc..right, can this be the delay in the first hearing. The police have not concluded all the investigation?
 

nightsafari

Alfrescian
Loyal
#57
"I'm also afraid to say that paying the $1200 to IO doesn't really do much until the judge passes sentencing. It is not factored in guilty / innocent judgment. If argued well, it will affect the sentencing, but that's at the whim of the judge. I'm speculating here, but the IO can be tulan for a number of reasons"

But, the first phone call I received from the accused, very brief after arrest & was , the lawyer here says, "better pay all the amount stolen" & I was given, the IO full name & contact number & the station. From the tone of my friend that this is important " will save his life" tone. But I didn't go down immediately, but a day later; like I had mentioned the I.O. doesn't sound pleased that, restitution money was raised & look pleased when receiving it. So, does a full restitution helps or not?

"The judge cannot rewrite the law, only interpret it. However, it is possible to get the sentence reduced. Sometimes to 0."
This I am aware of, what I research & read up on the internet, cases like this, first time offender of amount stolen of this nature, One, the amount stolen was more than $5,000, & it was mentioned in the news report, no restitution was made & the sentencing was a month in jail. The second was almost similar amount, full restitution was made & the news report mention that, sentencing was two weeks. The latter is the one, I am hoping for. The two weeks spend in remand should count as the time spent in jail & like you have said, hoping that it is possible that the sentence is reduced to zero & gets sent back to where the person originate. Are we going to say, the judges here decision depends on if the had a good breakfast today or had a good f#$#$k the night before? surely not right?
Surely yes. Judgment of Guilty or not guilty is out of your hands already. It will auto-kia no matter what you do now. No one can do anything anymore unless your lawyer can pull a trick or ah gong rises from the grave and go sit in court. That is the judgment part. Sentencing part how long, how many whacks of the rotan etc depends on your restitution, his breakfast, good action last night, his personality but always within certain limits and there are guidelines. If let's say he last night do 69 and if within the limits and guidelines, he can suka suka give 69 days. When the law is coming for you, everything you can do to cover backside helps, that's why lawyer say better pay. Then if you pay $ your fren sentence 69 days instead of 96 days. ok boh? Once found guilty then your restitution gets considered.

What I do not understand is, why the case was not heard at the first hearing, after all, there was no new evidence presented & the charge for the second is the same.
( the second brief phone call from after the court appearance from my friend, I ask, " how are you & how are they treating you, was told, it was good". I mentioned that the full amount stolen was paid to the I.O., " is it?", next was, I am still in jail. Then my friend said, don't know why, they adjourned the hearing to another week, then, the line was cut"). Why was the restitution made not mentioned in court during the first hearing?
as mentioned before you went for a pre-trial. It is not the trial. They are both held in the same type of courtroom so maybe that's why it's confusing. I will use this as an example. It's like seeing girls in fish tank. You go looksee looksee and maybe you want maybe you don't want. The judge is the same, he looks at the case and thinks maybe he wants the case, maybe don't want the case. That was the 1st time you were in court, the pretrial. If at the fish tank if you like you can jump straightaway. If the judge wants the case, he cannot do straightaway, he is required to set a later date and time to hold the actual trial. He cannot suka suka do it immediately. That's the next time you go to court and it gets serious then. The pretrial is looking at chicken ai mai and the trial is jumping the chicken, but because he is a judge, he is not allowed to do it immediately no matter how much he wants to.

A matter a curiosity, when one is being held in remand before sentencing, one is not actually is in jail right? I noticed that the uniform worn was brown in coloured & read somewhere on the internet, that is what those in remand wears.

What is the difference between remand & PRISON? They get free medical check up right? What is the daily routine at remand & prison, are they the same?
As the resident expert (Narong) here has said it looks similar, but in remand your fren is not yet confirm chop criminal. Remand is to keep innocent until proven guilty there so dun run road until trial complete. Prison is after you judged in trial confirm guilty liao and to hold confirmed guilty criminals until sentence ends. If trial finds not guilty, released from remand bo tai chi.

Also I think you can relax. Your fren not gonna kena whack, waterboard or anything like that. (supposedly, but I really have no experience only tiagong, you must ask Narong. I think only kena whack if in prison after guilty and kwai lan) If got medical condition, your fren should tell the mata. Technically they should jaga his medical condition.

Lastly, if the charge is reduced to zero & time spent in remand is counted as the sentencing, assuming & how soon, will this person be deported out of Singapore. I have no physical contact with the accused since arrest. Will the person be brought back to the landlord place, pack the things or the landlord pack all the things & give to the police or ICA? Will I be able to say hello to the accused at the airport & will I be able to know the flight details?
I have no direct personal experience, but I'll bet it will be damn quick. You can be pretty sure it's likely to escort straight from prison to airplane with no sidetrack. Maybe Narong knows more and can share? I also curious.

good luck bro! :thumbsup:
 

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
#58
Remand time will count into sentence time ie sentence backdate but you cant bail out now else not counted.
Ok, that means if the sentencing is two weeks, then two weeks remand is counted as sentence, means the accused will be deported ASAP, as in a foreigner. How fast will the foreigner be deported who decides? The AGC, the police or ICA. ASAP as in brought out of court, go airport..." bye, bye" or held again in some lock up ( where?) get the person belongings packed & then to airport? What is procedure here.
 

Narong Wongwan

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
#59
Ok, that means if the sentencing is two weeks, then two weeks remand is counted as sentence, means the accused will be deported ASAP, as in a foreigner. How fast will the foreigner be deported who decides? The AGC, the police or ICA. ASAP as in brought out of court, go airport..." bye, bye" or held again in some lock up ( where?) get the person belongings packed & then to airport? What is procedure here.
If he is to be deported then he will be brought back to prison to be process out.
The same day he will be transferred to ICA.
Prison dun keep inmates for even a day longer that what is stipulated by the court.
ICA will handle the deportation. He’ll be locked up in ICA and escorted to airport and put on a earliest flight.
If there’s time this would had been arranged beforehand that is while he is serving remaining time in prison. Else he needs to spend 1-2 days in ICA lockup till the paperwork is ready.
He won’t be let out to pack belongings but he can instruct someone to pass belongings to ICA. You also can’t send him off or see him throughout.
He’ll be escorted thru special customs channels.

That’s about it.

As for remand prison it’s 99% just like prison.
Only they are known as remandees instead of convicts or prisoners.
They can keep their hair. They wear brown shorts as opposed to sentenced inmates who wear blue shorts. Drug Rehab wear black shorts.
Their routine also 99% just like prisoners BUT some say it’s worse as remandees can’t work, can’t study, no religious counselling etc.
 

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
#60
Lastly I would like to share with you the hassle of visiting a person, arrested by the police, transferred after 48 hours to remand.

1. When the person was arrested, was not even told, where the person is being held, not even mentioned ( like being caught by the Gestapo).
2. When I acquire when the person is being held & can I visit the person being arrested being held, " I don't know" & much probing in Prison. Can I make a request here to visit, much probing..."I don't know". Can I have prison number.." I don't know"...then gave the prison feedback number.
3. Called the number, gave full name to person answering the phone, can I have the ID number...heck!..."green card" ( fortunately I managed to get the person WP ID number from the IO) after a while, yes, being held. Ask for location " Can't tell you". I want to visit, gave me an email address to write in.
4. Managed to search the internet on the number to call to visit...Call up the number, spoke to a person ask me for the Prisoner Number (?)...go through hoops, name, WP ID number...gave me a number to call...prison link.
5. Called spoke to a person...ask for relation to accused...etc , reasons, after much begging, leave full name & NRIC...they will call back in three days time, through an unlisted number, if not call is made after three days..call again. After two days, received a call..."asking for reasons, relations' & then proceeded to explain the visitation protocol...can bring 3 books in in soft covers..then tell me wait pass to B.O. (?). B.O. came to the phone, same through the hoops, now, we are talking!. Gave me the Prisoner number, the cluster in which the person is held...say they call me tomorrow.
6.Missed the unlisted call, so I call prison link number, but can't speak to any person, no person answered the call, went into automated menu choices, was cycle through choices on, how to visit etc..managed to get a selection to speak to a person ...then to another number, where the cluster is & spoke to the officer, who asked for Prisoner Number, ID etc...blah, blah, blah..call prison link number.
7. This time, a person answered the call, I identify myself, & person answered, knew my name, NRIC, my mobile number I am calling from, meaning that, they have already placed me on record. So I ask, when can I visit my friend? Answer, did you write in? no I said emailed two days ago. Checked my email address, says...waiting from Superintendent for approval...so I started begging...was told, fax in your request stating your reasons & the following:

A. Full Name, NRIC NUMBER
B. Prisoner Full Name, ID Number ( as in WP), Prisoner ID Number, Location of Cluster
C. My Mobile contact number
D. The reasons, why I would want to visit prisoner

& fax in now...happen to be near a fax machine & faxed in all the requirements...then I was asked, " do I have any records"? I know what it meant, I said no...then silence...I think must be checking the computer & then said " OK'! & proceeded with the visitation etc.. We will contact you..

I called the prison link number again to ask if they received the fax...the person answering the phone, identified me & then said, we have received your fax..it takes 2 weeks to process (wtf!) I went begging like a dog for a bone!...OK! we will look into this & pass to the superintendent...WE WILL CALL YOU, THROUGH AN UNLISTED NUMBER.

Now, I am waiting to strike "lottery"..

I understand the law, the protocol etc...why make it so difficult to contact or visit a person who was arrested? like being caught by the GESTAPO ( can't divulge police station), pay a visit to prison...at least, to know this & that...pass info gets info...like being held in ALCATRAZ.

So, if you steal $1 & you got reported & lands in Police Station & gets arrested...God Help You.

I am waiting word from " ALCATRAZ"...just to share with you all, the entire process of being arrested...to getting visiting rights at prison.
 
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