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Questions On Singapore Laws - Arrest, Remand, State Courts

Narong Wongwan

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
#21
So, I can hop on the bus, go 980 Changi North Road ...register & visit right?
Yes for foreigners more tricky as need to prove relationship they will
Surely try to turn you away. but just be firm and insist they will sure relent. Summon the superintendent and they get scare.
Also make sure you got no criminal record else can’t visit unless nmate is your family member
 

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
#22
Yes for foreigners more tricky as need to prove relationship they will
Surely try to turn you away. but just be firm and insist they will sure relent. Summon the superintendent and they get scare.
Also make sure you got no criminal record else can’t visit unless nmate is your family member
Ok...the main question on my mind is, since the charge is under Section 379 Penal Code ( Cap 224, revision Ed 2008), full restitution was made to the IO as instructed by the accused, according to the legal representation the person got; what will the chances be, of getting a discharge & the amount is consider petty ( law society) & a first time offender?. The pother thing is, the second call I received..told the person that the full amount was paid to IO, was told, "is it'? & then asked, why still in jail?

Say this scenario, the next hearing..gets discharged, I am sure the judge will order a deportation, will MOM do the deportation or ICA?. How will the person contact me, to get his things etc...will the person be allowed to meet another like me to arrange for things etc..I have seen the person since the arrest & only two brief 2 minutes call.
 

Narong Wongwan

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
#23
Ok...the main question on my mind is, since the charge is under Section 379 Penal Code ( Cap 224, revision Ed 2008), full restitution was made to the IO as instructed by the accused, according to the legal representation the person got; what will the chances be, of getting a discharge & the amount is consider petty ( law society) & a first time offender?. The pother thing is, the second call I received..told the person that the full amount was paid to IO, was told, "is it'? & then asked, why still in jail?

Say this scenario, the next hearing..gets discharged, I am sure the judge will order a deportation, will MOM do the deportation or ICA?. How will the person contact me, to get his things etc...will the person be allowed to meet another like me to arrange for things etc..I have seen the person since the arrest & only two brief 2 minutes call.
That charge and expected sentence you have to ask a lawyer but ultimate it delends on the judge. The dpp got some sway.

The ICA will do the deportation. Nothing to do with mom even if he’s working here.
By then you can contact ICA to make the arrangement. ICA will ask him to pay for the one way ticket for sure and theyll
Allow him to contact locals to assist.
But dun wait till last minute. Arrange with him during the visits. If got leyer
For him the lawyer also allowed visits to him and you can pass message to him thru lawyer
 

Tony Tan

Alfrescian
Loyal
#24
Remand was applied and normally judge will allow especially foreigner.

Non-family-member very hard to get access while in remand.

Best access is lawyer, who can apply to prison and won't be denied in this case. Lawyer can make application for bail.

If he did not hurt people, damaged property, used weapon, threatened mata, evade arrest etc, thus case not too serious, and if no previous final records, very light outcome can be expected.

Good lawyer can teach accuse to tell story like drunken act, or prank, or stolen as a motive of money dispute or feud revenge or some other factor like accuse suspected his own cash was stolen by landlord and tried to RECOVER his own Cash etc. Want to learn these can learn from criminal defense experts. Pleade Guilty and have lawyers make these kinds of mitigation factors, DPP very hard to counter if you know how to cook these.

1st offender may get fines after already remand days.
 

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
#25
Remand was applied and normally judge will allow especially foreigner.

Non-family-member very hard to get access while in remand.

Best access is lawyer, who can apply to prison and won't be denied in this case. Lawyer can make application for bail.

If he did not hurt people, damaged property, used weapon, threatened mata, evade arrest etc, thus case not too serious, and if no previous final records, very light outcome can be expected.

Good lawyer can teach accuse to tell story like drunken act, or prank, or stolen as a motive of money dispute or feud revenge or some other factor like accuse suspected his own cash was stolen by landlord and tried to RECOVER his own Cash etc. Want to learn these can learn from criminal defense experts. Pleade Guilty and have lawyers make these kinds of mitigation factors, DPP very hard to counter if you know how to cook these.

1st offender may get fines after already remand days.
Can the number of days spent in remand count as sentencing , say 14 days & then deport..
 

sweetiepie

Alfrescian
Loyal
#27
KNN in sg most shitizens are born law abiding and will mostly caught like a sotong when faced with unprepared unlawful events KNN only unrepented people like narong after going through several rounds will be familiar KNN my uncle advise sinkies to be aware of this and don't do silly things to break any pap law as there are too many pap doggies around us and you will never know when you gonna be next if you are mentally not aware KNN take for eg my uncle know of someone who always "take" company assets home eg. envelopes to pens scotch tapes toilet rolls etc petty crimes and after hundreds of success he will extend to take more valuable items eg old laptops power cords new laptop casings etc KNN for this type is a risk calculation KNN good luck to him KNN as for my uncle has landed himself into trouble last time for being hand itchy to touch other people letter box in void deck KNN that time hdb didn't have cam to proof that he was only itchy hand to dig and touch but he soon pa he did not open or threw away other people's letters KNN but it happened that mata chia happened to prowl by and arrested him and being accused of mischief by throwing letters away when they saw some letters on the floor KNN my uncle asked them to take those letters for dna but the mata didn't bother and just arrested him KNN KNN KNN
 

Tony Tan

Alfrescian
Loyal
#28
Can the number of days spent in remand count as sentencing , say 14 days & then deport..

Not automatically discounted, but when sentencing both the accused or the lawyer can make such application to judge. It is up to the judge to take this in to consideration. DPP have right to object against this. However this case not so bad as far as I am reading here. May not even deport if lawyer knows how to defend.

The best deal is Pleaded Guilty and make good mitigation story, express remorse.

When you PG means no trial, means DPP got no chance to induce any evidence e.g. landlord as witness to poke his ass on witness stand, and no mata IO as witness etc.

Lots of foreigners committed stealing here, still allowed to work here.

During mitigation Lawyer can submit to judge supporting testimony of employer college or any authority figures, to say good words, or guarantee. If the guy got any good deed that have proof must let lawyer submit to judge, as a part of mitigation argument.
 

Narong Wongwan

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
#29
Not automatically discounted, but when sentencing both the accused or the lawyer can make such application to judge. It is up to the judge to take this in to consideration. DPP have right to object against this. However this case not so bad as far as I am reading here. May not even deport if lawyer knows how to defend.

The best deal is Pleaded Guilty and make good mitigation story, express remorse.

When you PG means no trial, means DPP got no chance to induce any evidence e.g. landlord as witness to poke his ass on witness stand, and no mata IO as witness etc.

Lots of foreigners committed stealing here, still allowed to work here.

During mitigation Lawyer can submit to judge supporting testimony of employer college or any authority figures, to say good words, or guarantee. If the guy got any good deed that have proof must let lawyer submit to judge, as a part of mitigation argument.
You might be Lawyer or know the law better but based on my experience almost all cases can be backdated if got remand period.
Only when you bail out in between then no count but if bail out after 2 months remand also can count back.
Only in cases like CT and PD usually no backdate BUT then I’ve seen the odd case or two when CT sentence got backdate also.
I’ve also seen judge advising the remand defendant to plead guilty on the spot promising that the sentence to be meted out is shorter than remand period already served so remandee can walk free as soon as sentenced
 

GoldenDragon

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
#30
Puzzled why no bail was offered at police station since theft and theft in dwelling offences are bailable.

Looks more like a theft in dwelling case. It can only be amended to simple theft with DPP’s concurrance.

To the best of my knowledge, most IOs, to save time and inconvenience, will urge the complt/victim not to pursue once the loss is recovered.

Restitution is almost always confined to cheating and CBT cases. First time I am reading it was for a theft case.

If IO was an old bird, and accused not kuai lan, he would have been given a warning in lieu of court prosecution. Without a court conviction, AGC can still authorise that the accused be deported.
 

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
#32
Puzzled why no bail was offered at police station since theft and theft in dwelling offences are bailable.

Looks more like a theft in dwelling case. It can only be amended to simple theft with DPP’s concurrance.

To the best of my knowledge, most IOs, to save time and inconvenience, will urge the complt/victim not to pursue once the loss is recovered.

Restitution is almost always confined to cheating and CBT cases. First time I am reading it was for a theft case.

If IO was an old bird, and accused not kuai lan, he would have been given a warning in lieu of court prosecution. Without a court conviction, AGC can still authorise that the accused be deported.
It is a simple theft... I think, they want the accused to sweat it out for 14 days at remand...hence, they postponement to second hearing & then, in mitigation for the amount stolen had been paid to the IO...most likely gets a discharge or sentence that is 14 days?
 

Narong Wongwan

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
#33
It is a simple theft... I think, they want the accused to sweat it out for 14 days at remand...hence, they postponement to second hearing & then, in mitigation for the amount stolen had been paid to the IO...most likely gets a discharge or sentence that is 14 days?
No such thing as sweat it out.
SPF and prison not so free and nobody wants to do extra paper work unless if Chee Soon Juan then maybe top level will instruct to tekan.
If want IO will tekan during lockup. No need throw him to remand.
Station Bail should have been offered then and there even go until court judge also will set bail. This is not some big case.
 

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
#34
No such thing as sweat it out.
SPF and prison not so free and nobody wants to do extra paper work unless if Chee Soon Juan then maybe top level will instruct to tekan.
If want IO will tekan during lockup. No need throw him to remand.
Station Bail should have been offered then and there even go until court judge also will set bail. This is not some big case.
Then why in remand for two weeks...until the next hearing? As I had mentioned...from arrest lockup police station to remand, then 1st case mention, 7 days, then until next hearing 7 days...14 days. The full amount, I made payment to IO before the case being mentioned, did that, gave them extra paperwork? to need to postpone to the next hearing?, altogether 14 days in remand..

The charge on the two hearing dates, no change, that means, no additional charges. What will the approximate sentencing be, I know, we don't know...but at least speculate a little? It is a small theft of money, the full amount stolen had been paid back to the victim & it is a first time offender.

A two weeks sentence back date to arrest date & then, deport from here? or what else, can we meted out?
 
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GoldenDragon

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
#36
It is a simple theft... I think, they want the accused to sweat it out for 14 days at remand...hence, they postponement to second hearing & then, in mitigation for the amount stolen had been paid to the IO...most likely gets a discharge or sentence that is 14 days?
Possible but unlikely. It’s not the IO’s call. Surely his supervisors won’t want to account for his decision to let the accused ‘sweat it out.’ Also, when case goes to court, bail has to be offered.
 

GoldenDragon

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
#37
No such thing as sweat it out.
SPF and prison not so free and nobody wants to do extra paper work unless if Chee Soon Juan then maybe top level will instruct to tekan.
If want IO will tekan during lockup. No need throw him to remand.
Station Bail should have been offered then and there even go until court judge also will set bail. This is not some big case.
Agree. Years ago, a foreigner was arrested for a series of cheating/CBT offences. Bail was 500k. Surely an offence involving $1200 is bailable.
 

nightsafari

Alfrescian
Loyal
#38
Hi allm

Questions:

1. Person arrested after 48 hours, is then detained at Remand Prison ( that what I read up) right?.
2. They are not consider to be "IN PRISON' until the judge passes sentence right & hence the brown colour uniform ( I read about the brown colour) right.
3. The conviction will be lesser if full restitution is made, in this case, stole $1,200 paid $1,200, right?
4. Read on the law society something...that, first time offender & small amount, the judgement can amount to a discharge & the offender deported, if a foreigner barred from working here.
2. Yup sentence has not been passed. Will not be deemed guilty until sentence has been passed. Remand is a holding period so that the person dun run road and will go to court. Bail is the alternative (privileged) way of assuring court appearance.
3. There is no legal requirement that a judge factor in restitution into a judgment and a sentence. There is however a convention to do so. I don't know if any judge ever goes against that convention. The legal requirements are simple. The money was stolen. Therefore a law was infringed. After the arrest was made, the justice machine goes to work on that charge and secures a judgment and if guilty a sentence. The restitution is then considered as a mitigating factor. By 100% right, the judge need not consider it. AFAIK they do.
4. Again, that's the convention esp. in Singapore. There is however nothing to stop the judge throwing the maximum sentence at a convict if he/she feels the urge to do so. Of course, if blatantly unfair can appeal. Then becomes another story.

Allow me to read between the lines so that I can better answer your doubts. You're concerned that your friends gets judged guilty, sentenced to deportation and has criminal record and can never return to Singapore rite?

Ok. I am not a practicing lawyer in Singapore, but 1stly, if you want not go to guilty judgment, you kinda too late. Since you paid the $1,200, could you have asked the landlord to withdraw the complaint? Now all evidence in front of the court, they have to convict because, money was taken, complaint was filed. They probably give a slap on the wrist, because the sum was small and you paid full, but still too late for the judgment itself because the judge is compelled by the rule of law to find guilty if all the requirements are met. i.e. money taken, sum taken etc etc. Unless you get some kinda superstar lawyer who can somehow black turn white.

Sorry to give bad news, but if it's that important, find a well known professional. If you're worried about the sentence, I wouldn't it's going to be next to nothing, but if you're worried about the record go find the lawyer.
 

Narong Wongwan

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
#39
Then why in remand for two weeks...until the next hearing? As I had mentioned...from arrest lockup police station to remand, then 1st case mention, 7 days, then until next hearing 7 days...14 days. The full amount, I made payment to IO before the case being mentioned, did that, gave them extra paperwork? to need to postpone to the next hearing?, altogether 14 days in remand..

The charge on the two hearing dates, no change, that means, no additional charges. What will the approximate sentencing be, I know, we don't know...but at least speculate a little? It is a small theft of money, the full amount stolen had been paid back to the victim & it is a first time offender.

A two weeks sentence back date to arrest date & then, deport from here? or what else, can we meted out?
Remanded because no one bail him out.
I’m quite sure bail was offered at the station and in court.
And he needs to be remanded until next court date.
I’m sure the first court appearance was in court 26.
And postpone because they weren’t ready to charge still investigating or whatever paperwork issues or your guy blur dunno to plead guilty.
Judge always like to adjourn for any fuck reasons.
But poor guy left languishing in jail.
 

halsey02

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
#40
Remanded because no one bail him out.
I’m quite sure bail was offered at the station and in court.
And he needs to be remanded until next court date.
I’m sure the first court appearance was in court 26.
And postpone because they weren’t ready to charge still investigating or whatever paperwork issues or your guy blur dunno to plead guilty.
Judge always like to adjourn for any fuck reasons.
But poor guy left languishing in jail.
It was court 23....I am still confused...full restitution was made....so that doesn't count in judgement?
 
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