Pre Trial Conference

[sharin75]

Dear Brothers,

Is it normal for DPP and Defence Lawyer meet up before any PTC?

Lawyer mentioned it's time to see what "card" the DPP is playing in the poker.

He didn't mention any representations made.

If the DPP Card is strong then go trial, else plead.

Looks like the lawyer don't intend to do any representation.

How?

 

[rofthelper]

Nothing to do with procedures. No police Office however senior can reduce a charge which corresponds with an offence disclosed.

Why don't you write to the SPH forum and ask if the Commissioner of Police can reduce a shoplifting charge to a charge of simple theft without consulting AG Chambers.

Attorney-General, damn big shot manz.

As the Public Prosecutor, the Attorney-General is vested with the power "to institute, conduct or discontinue proceedings for any offence". The Attorney-General is independent in this role, and not subject to the control of the government.

http://www.agc.gov.sg/aboutus/management.htm

 

[scroobal]

AG has the most extraordinary powers and even more that ministers and that applies to both the Westminter and the American model. The AG can chose not to prosecute without giving a reason. A judge has to give his reason by law for his verdict and it is called judgement.

That is why I always recommend representation to AG.

Attorney-General, damn big shot manz.



http://www.agc.gov.sg/aboutus/management.htm

 

[Froggy]

After reading all these I am pleasantly surprised that there are so many powderful and clever people in this forum.

 

[lovesamleong]

That is why I always recommend representation to AG.

I guess only if the AG is on the person side. If not, it will be a nightmare since the AG dont have to give reasons.

 

[rofthelper]

AG has the most extraordinary powers and even more that ministers and that applies to both the Westminter and the American model. The AG can chose not to prosecute without giving a reason. A judge has to give his reason by law for his verdict and it is called judgement.

That is why I always recommend representation to AG.

Bro, you have inside scoop abt ex AG, Walter Woon? Read from his previous interviews, quite a nice guy. Wonder why the sudden depart of his AG post.

 

[rofthelper]

Interesting to know what cases are heard in different courts.

What cases are heard in Court 26 ?


Court 26 deals with the following cases:

a) All fresh District Arrest Cases (DAC)
b) Matters awaiting preliminary inquiry and subsequent committal for trial in the High Court
c) Where the accused faces multiple charges and at least one is a "DAC"
d) Where the accused has to be remanded beyond 8 days

Operating Hours of Court 26:
Mondays – Fridays: Morning Session: 8.45 a.m.
Bail Court operates from 2.00pm to 5.00pm
Saturdays: Morning Session: 9.00 a.m.


What cases are heard in Court 23 ?

a) Magistrate's Arrest Cases ("MAC")
b) Police Sumonses (PS)
c) Private Sumonses (PSS) including "intellectual property" cases
d) Sumonses prosecuted by the following agencies:

* Official Assignee ("OA"),
* Ministry of Manpower ("MOM"),
* Maritime Port Authority ("MPA"),
* Health Science Authority ("HSA"),
* National Parks Board ("NPB")
* Energy Market Authority (“EMA”)
* Inland Revenue Authority of Singapore (“IRAS”)

Operating Hours of Court 23:
Mondays - Fridays:
Morning Session: 9.00 a.m.
Afternoon Session: 2.00 p.m.

Link:
http://app.subcourts.gov.sg/criminal/faq.aspx?pageid=3274

 

[rofthelper]

In such a situation, the defence counsel may want to make reps to have another charge TIC. ie, proceed only with 2 charges. Especially so if the charges carry custodial sentences. This is because the Criminal Procedure Code stipulates that where a person is convicted of 3 or more charges and sentenced to imprisonment for all 3 (in one sitting), the imprisonment terms of at least 2 charges must run consecutively.

Bro, there's one question I would like to ask.

Let's say a man has the intention to rape an acquaintance of his. During the ordeal, the woman was strangled to death. What will the IO charge him initially? If let's say the charge is murder, which carries a mandatory death sentence, and punishment for rape is imprisonment for a term which may extend to 20 years, and shall also be liable to fine or to caning.

So how will the judge sentence this accused?

 

[rofthelper]

As for fines, just have to total up for all the charges proceeded with. There is no consecutive or concurrent for fines. There is also no concurrent for jail term in default of fine (cannot pay fine, go to jail). Have to total up. There is also no remission (early release for good behaviour)

You mentioned this in your earlier post. I wonder how the court calculate the jail in default of fine payment. Sometimes I read that one day jail term equals $1000, some not. Is it depends on the amount of fine imposed?

 

[GoldenDragon]

I guess only if the AG is on the person side. If not, it will be a nightmare since the AG dont have to give reasons.

Trust me, when Chan Sek Keong was AG, he was very fair. Somehow or other, he did not get along with then CJ Yong Pung 'Seow'.

 

[Screwball]

I guess only if the AG is on the person side. If not, it will be a nightmare since the AG dont have to give reasons.

Is that the reasoning why Fatty Woon was removing as AG and replaced because he has soft side for the people?

 

[Ramseth]

Trust me, when Chan Sek Keong was AG, he was very fair. Somehow or other, he did not get along with then CJ Yong Pung 'Seow'.

Like in the polling station is not the same as within the polling station?

That masterpiece got him promoted to CJ and even Oxbridge and Webster-Merriam dictionary compilers' arguments over it still unsettled, not to mention the law schools.

 

[GoldenDragon]

Like in the polling station is not the same as within the polling station?

Was the incident during CSK's time? Thought it was during YPH's.

 

[Ramseth]

Was the incident during CSK's time? Thought it was during YPH's.

That was GCT in Cheng San polling station, TLH time, 1997, CSK as AG to decide whether to charge GCT or not, nothing to do with YPH as CJ yet or since.

 

[rofthelper]

Dear Brothers,

Is it normal for DPP and Defence Lawyer meet up before any PTC?

Lawyer mentioned it's time to see what "card" the DPP is playing in the poker.

He didn't mention any representations made.

If the DPP Card is strong then go trial, else plead.

Looks like the lawyer don't intend to do any representation.

How?

Bro sharin75, how's your bro's verdict?

 

[MoSaleh]

For your info, PTC are held in the judge's chamber (the room behind the open court) and it is basically to update the judge on the status of the matter. If the accused person is represented, then his/her lawyer will go inside chambers with the DPP, while the accused will wait outside. It is also the time to inform the judge whether the accused wants to plead guilty or claim trial. So, there is nothing much to see! I've attended on before. There are many different cases alloted to that judge and I had to wait outside for more than an hour before my lawyer went in. He was out in less than 2 mins and then I was told that I can leave. WTF! A complete waste of time! :oIo:

Hi I need help as im confuse

 

[Eelmod]

Hi all, i am. Recently being charged with criminal force against public servants.i have no intention on doing that, nobody got hurt.

Let start with the story.. June last year i went out and drink heavily.. It was suppose to be a joyous occasion.. I went home.. Super drunk.. Koed on the floor. My brother saw this and call the ambulance. The rest i cant rmb clear.. But i push the paramedic and and the police. Non fall down or injured.i have no intention on pushing them. Its my first time involve with the law.

Since im a newbie.. I got terrifed. I went ti this lawyer. He said early reps can get a warning and ssettle within the police station itself..6 mnths pass. Was summoned to court.. Again my lawyer demanded money. Total was 8.6k. I did everything to show how remoraeful i am. Counseling and apologies letter. Lawyer didn communicate much with me. Everytime i have to chase them
Only with no news.. So went to court for 3 times.

So last month went court again. 1 lady ask me. If i plead guilty to my case. I say yes. As i wanted to settle it swiftly. My lawyer didn prep me or anytjing. The "plead guilty was my own decision. As i dint know anythinh about law and their rules.

So they issued a pgm date om 1 march. I keep chasing them on my news. No replies or they dont know.so i received news judt 1 day b4 my pgm date. It was a 4 weeks jail term.i aak my lawyer b4 my sentencing if i do get a fine instead of. Jail. He said no. He dont even want to fight anymore. I told him i have no intention of pusbing them at all. He was pusbing me to take the charged. Suddenly he say if u have no intention on pusing them. Do not plead guilty. On my point of view i pleaded guilty, becuase i rmb i did them. I was just being honest. And i cant even rmb much. The police statement i have on the point of tine and the Sof were given vy the dpp completely different. I admit the fact that i push them . I was expecting fine. But 4 weeks jail term. Is too much for me.

I will lose my job. Plus nobody was injured or fall down. So my lawyer straight asked for a ptc. I am Considering changing lawyer to send reps and asking them do lower the sentencing. I dont want to cause both parties time too. But my lawyer hasent been guiding and adviseing me porperly. Now they sure will ask. For more money if it goes to trail.

My question is do i still have a chance to get a warning or fine. Jail term is too harsh for me. I habe never done any offense b4. Im clueless in court.

Does psychiatrist report helps to show them im not intentionally pushing them.

And should i consider hiring new lawyer.

 

[Narong Wongwan]

Hi all, i am. Recently being charged with criminal force against public servants.i have no intention on doing that, nobody got hurt.

Let start with the story.. June last year i went out and drink heavily.. It was suppose to be a joyous occasion.. I went home.. Super drunk.. Koed on the floor. My brother saw this and call the ambulance. The rest i cant rmb clear.. But i push the paramedic and and the police. Non fall down or injured.i have no intention on pushing them. Its my first time involve with the law.

Since im a newbie.. I got terrifed. I went ti this lawyer. He said early reps can get a warning and ssettle within the police station itself..6 mnths pass. Was summoned to court.. Again my lawyer demanded money. Total was 8.6k. I did everything to show how remoraeful i am. Counseling and apologies letter. Lawyer didn communicate much with me. Everytime i have to chase them
Only with no news.. So went to court for 3 times.

So last month went court again. 1 lady ask me. If i plead guilty to my case. I say yes. As i wanted to settle it swiftly. My lawyer didn prep me or anytjing. The "plead guilty was my own decision. As i dint know anythinh about law and their rules.

So they issued a pgm date om 1 march. I keep chasing them on my news. No replies or they dont know.so i received news judt 1 day b4 my pgm date. It was a 4 weeks jail term.i aak my lawyer b4 my sentencing if i do get a fine instead of. Jail. He said no. He dont even want to fight anymore. I told him i have no intention of pusbing them at all. He was pusbing me to take the charged. Suddenly he say if u have no intention on pusing them. Do not plead guilty. On my point of view i pleaded guilty, becuase i rmb i did them. I was just being honest. And i cant even rmb much. The police statement i have on the point of tine and the Sof were given vy the dpp completely different. I admit the fact that i push them . I was expecting fine. But 4 weeks jail term. Is too much for me.

I will lose my job. Plus nobody was injured or fall down. So my lawyer straight asked for a ptc. I am Considering changing lawyer to send reps and asking them do lower the sentencing. I dont want to cause both parties time too. But my lawyer hasent been guiding and adviseing me porperly. Now they sure will ask. For more money if it goes to trail.

My question is do i still have a chance to get a warning or fine. Jail term is too harsh for me. I habe never done any offense b4. Im clueless in court.

Does psychiatrist report helps to show them im not intentionally pushing them.

And should i consider hiring new lawyer.

Your lawyer is taking you for a ride.
Simple case like this where got so expensive.
He wants go PTC just to drag tine.
Better cut this lawyer loose and hire one that do not charge by court appearance and a one time bao ka liao type.
I dun know specifics of case but I predict open plate for normal person is 3 months

 

[GoldenDragon]

Market rate 5k. If kawan kawan 3k. 8.8k is broad daylight robbery!

Your lawyer should make representation on your behalf - plead for a conditional warning. If unsuccessful, his job is to try his best to get you a fine. You stand a chance. If it was VCH against public servant, no chance. Good luck.

 

[sweetiepie]

Hi all, i am. Recently being charged with criminal force against public servants.i have no intention on doing that, nobody got hurt.

Let start with the story.. June last year i went out and drink heavily.. It was suppose to be a joyous occasion.. I went home.. Super drunk.. Koed on the floor. My brother saw this and call the ambulance. The rest i cant rmb clear.. But i push the paramedic and and the police. Non fall down or injured.i have no intention on pushing them. Its my first time involve with the law.

Since im a newbie.. I got terrifed. I went ti this lawyer. He said early reps can get a warning and ssettle within the police station itself..6 mnths pass. Was summoned to court.. Again my lawyer demanded money. Total was 8.6k. I did everything to show how remoraeful i am. Counseling and apologies letter. Lawyer didn communicate much with me. Everytime i have to chase them
Only with no news.. So went to court for 3 times.

So last month went court again. 1 lady ask me. If i plead guilty to my case. I say yes. As i wanted to settle it swiftly. My lawyer didn prep me or anytjing. The "plead guilty was my own decision. As i dint know anythinh about law and their rules.

So they issued a pgm date om 1 march. I keep chasing them on my news. No replies or they dont know.so i received news judt 1 day b4 my pgm date. It was a 4 weeks jail term.i aak my lawyer b4 my sentencing if i do get a fine instead of. Jail. He said no. He dont even want to fight anymore. I told him i have no intention of pusbing them at all. He was pusbing me to take the charged. Suddenly he say if u have no intention on pusing them. Do not plead guilty. On my point of view i pleaded guilty, becuase i rmb i did them. I was just being honest. And i cant even rmb much. The police statement i have on the point of tine and the Sof were given vy the dpp completely different. I admit the fact that i push them . I was expecting fine. But 4 weeks jail term. Is too much for me.

I will lose my job. Plus nobody was injured or fall down. So my lawyer straight asked for a ptc. I am Considering changing lawyer to send reps and asking them do lower the sentencing. I dont want to cause both parties time too. But my lawyer hasent been guiding and adviseing me porperly. Now they sure will ask. For more money if it goes to trail.

My question is do i still have a chance to get a warning or fine. Jail term is too harsh for me. I habe never done any offense b4. Im clueless in court.

Does psychiatrist report helps to show them im not intentionally pushing them.

And should i consider hiring new lawyer.

KNN your bro is a child is it KNN