PAP's Migrant policy is Seriously Flawed

[TracyTan866]

The pap thinks that liberally granting SG citizenship to cheap foreign labour will solve SG's population problem. This policy is seriously flawed for the following reasons:

1. There is no such thing as an instant citizen. A citizen must share broad common values, traits, common destiny and have passion for the country. Do the economic migrants share these with Singaporeans who are borned, bred and grew up in Singapore?

2. Most of the new citizens SG is able to attract are from third world countries and they bring in with them their 3rd world mentality, behaviours, idiosyncrascies. They dont want to embrace Singapore's core values nor do they seek to integrate into SG's society. Such attitudes strain SG's social fabric.

3. Can MOM effectively check these people's declared qualifications, skills? Or do we take what they declare at face value? This can be dangerous as we may be admitting people who are not qualified nor skilled.

4. Are these people taking SG as a stepping stone and will leave when the opportunities arise?

5. Has the pap counted the social costs of having these people in SG?

6. Will these cheap labour be a burden to Singapore in future when they grow old?

7. If the new citizen policy is to replace declining birth rate, is a more modest number eg 10,000 new citizens a year sufficient? why so liberal with so many new citizens in such a short time that it overwhelms our society?

8. Did the pap severely overlook the repercussions of this policy?

9. The unqualified, unskilled cheap foreign labour levels SG society down. An immigration policy should level society up. Why have a policy that levels us down?

10. Can the pap truly say that an instant new citizen is as good as a borned and bred Singaporean?

11. If it's so easy to solve declining birth rates by just throwing citizenships to cheap foreign labourers, why is SG the only country which is doing it? Are the other countries stupid? or is the pap the stupid one?

It's time the pap leaders reassess the wisdom of this policy.

 

[rusty]

The problems will only surface 20-30 years down the road just like the 'stop at 2 policy'
By then those m'therfuckers who implemented it would have been dead or on the waiting list.

 

[Leongsam]

Singapore never had a unique culture of begin with.

It has always been a country made up a hodge podge bunch of misfits from different parts of the world so adding a few more won't make much of a difference.

Before the recent influx, it was Southern Chinese, Southern Indians, Malays, Eurasians with a smattering of Ang Mohs from pommie land.

The Eurasians have left for Perth and the Ang Mohs are a more diverse lot plus the Chinese and Indians from other regions of their homelands have been added to the mix but it's still a "rojak" society so it's not as if the contamination is a recent phenomena.

If anything, the broader variety of characters should add to the vibrancy of "multiculturalism". The recent additions are also of a higher quality. They used to mainly from peasant stock but not anymore.

 

[TracyTan866]

The problems will only surface 20-30 years down the road just like the 'stop at 2 policy'
By then those m'therfuckers who implemented it would have been dead or on the waiting list.

I agree with you. A PRC hawker assistant in her 30s gets her PR after working two years at a hawker stall, earning less than $1000 per mth. She recently brought in two children, husband and her mother. If she gets her cititzenship, what kind of burden will these people be when she and her hubby are in their 60s in 30 yrs time. Multiply her situation by 50,000 and we get a glimpse of SG's future. But do the pap and policy makers see the problems ahead or are they stuck in the present?

 

[TracyTan866]

Singapore never had a unique culture of begin with.

It has always been a country made up a hodge podge bunch of misfits from different parts of the world so adding a few more won't make much of a difference.

Before the recent influx, it was Southern Chinese, Southern Indians, Malays, Eurasians.

The Eurasians have left for Perth and Chinese and Indians from other regions of their homelands have been added to the mix but it's still a "rojak" society so it's not as if the contamination is any worse.

If anything, the broader variety of characters should add to the vibrancy of "multiculturalism".

Culture is always evolving. We are concerned abt values, behaviours and social norms.

If you are in SG, you will know that SG is getting dirtier because many of these new migrants are used to littering and spitting in their home countries. Cant really blame them.

They talk loudly and shout into their mobiles

They jay walk all over.

They cycle in no cycle zones.

They ignore traffic rules

They dont queue

They talk in their own native language and refuse to learn common SG media of communication

They dont try to assimilate into SG society

etc...

The future looks bleak if this policy continues. It brings more problems than solving problems. Some moderates in the pap acknowledge this flawed policy. but these are in the minority and they need more ammunition from us to rescind the policy. the pap hardcore had to resort to getting their antiquated big gun to speak on this a few days ago. it showed the battle looming ahead.

so we need to keep hitting on this bad policy and not relent

 

[TracyTan866]

The Eurasians have left for Perth and the Ang Mohs are a more diverse lot plus the Chinese and Indians from other regions of their homelands have been added to the mix but it's still a "rojak" society so it's not as if the contamination is a recent phenomena.

If anything, the broader variety of characters should add to the vibrancy of "multiculturalism". The recent additions are also of a higher quality. They used to mainly from peasant stock but not anymore.

Those the Australians admit are well behaved , civilised and can carry themselves well...they dont rock nor strain the social system.

Singaporeans have never said dont admit migrants. the key is to admit those that can add value to SG and not pull Sg down

 

[Leongsam]

Those the Australians admit are well behaved , civilised and can carry themselves well...they dont rock nor strain the social system.

With this single statement, you have proven once and for all that you really don't have a clue what you're talking about.

 

[TracyTan866]

With this single statement, you have proven once and for all that you really don't have a clue what you're talking about.

You think so? Wild statements like that dont cut any ice with the well travelled and discerning. On the contrary, they exposed your naiveness .

Have you compared and contrasted the new migrants in Sg and the Eurasians and other Asians in Perth.

I have been to Perth, Subiaco, Fremantle, Mandurah, etc many times and for long periods and I can see how well Asians have assimilated to Aus.

Have you been to Bukit Ho Swee, Toa Payoh, Chai Chee, Bedok, etc and see how the new migrants are aloof and not assimiliating?

When you are able to compare both, then come and discuss...otherwise, dont make wild statements and show your ignorance.

You are a poor imitation of LKY. LKY is the icon of wild and arrogant statements and these have isolated him from Singaporeans

 

[Leongsam]

I have been to Perth, Subiaco, Fremantle, Mandurah, etc many times and for long periods and I can see how well Asians have assimilated to Aus.

You're a real joke in more ways than one.

Subiaco is a suburb in Perth 7 sq km. Population is about 15,000.

Fremantle is 5.6 sq km Population 24,000.

Mandurah is about 170 sq km has a population of 60,000.

So based on observing 0.4% of the population in one small corner of WA, you've been able to draw conclusions about a country of 23 million people living on a land mass of almost 8 MILLION sq km.

That's like me drawing conclusions about how Singaporeans live based on a visit to one street in Binjai Park.

I'm all for your trolling in this forum to get interesting debates going but please maintain some semblance of logical thinking in your replies.

You remind me of the person who once asked me... "How's the weather in Australia?".

 

[TracyTan866]

You're a real joke in more ways than one.

Subiaco is a suburb in Perth 7 sq km. Population is about 15,000.

Fremantle is 5.6 sq km Population 24,000.

Mandurah is about 170 sq km has a population of 60,000.

So based on observing 0.4% of the population is one small corner of WA, you've been able to draw conclusions about a country of 23 million people living on a land mass of almost 8 MILLION sq km.

That's like me drawing conclusions about how Singaporeans live based on a visit to one street in Binjai Park.

I'm all for your trolling in this forum to get interesting debates going but please maintain some semblance of logical thinking in your replies.

I was just giving you a sampling of where I have been through in Perth alone. Do you need to know my whole world travel itinerary? That sampling is already far superior to your ignorance of current SG event which you conveniently avoided answering.

what do u know abt current Sg events. U only have key board knowledge? u may not realise it, but what u said here completely exposed your ignorance of current SG events. all u did was make motherhood statements gained from internet searches not from ground knowledge.

People here are too kind to call your bluff and tell u off. Or were they cruel enough to continue let u make a bigger fool of yourself?

But I am unlike them. I will not sugar coat my words for you...I will call you for what you are ..that's if u really want to know my opinion of you. Otherwise, it is best for you to avoid my posts

 

[Leongsam]

I was just giving you a sampling of where I have been through in Perth alone. Do you need to know my whole world travel itinerary? That sampling is already far superior to your ignorance of current SG event which you conveniently avoided answering.

Not only are you ignorant, you're also blatantly dishonest. If you had better samples, you would have given them. You don't and you know it. If you're trying to suggest I know as little about Singapore as you do about Australia, you're also clutching at straws trying to defend your ludicrous posts.

I grew up in Singapore. I lived and worked there for more than 30 years. I still have a majority share in a small company in Singapore. I've been through what it's like to try to hire staff in Singapore. I've experienced first hand the attitudes of Singaporeans when it comes to work. I've also hired foreigners. Without them, I would have closed the company a long time ago.

 

[TracyTan866]

Not only are you ignorant, you're also blatantly dishonest. If you had better samples, you would have given them. You don't and you know it. If you're trying to suggest I know as little about Singapore as you do about Australia, you're also clutching at straws trying to defend your ludicrous posts.

I grew up in Singapore. I lived and worked there for more than 30 years. I still have a majority share in a small company in Singapore. I've been through what it's like to try to hire staff in Singapore. I've experienced first hand the attitudes of Singaporeans when it comes to work. I've also hired foreigners. Without them, I would have closed the company a long time ago.

hahaha...who is the one who is blatantly dishonest and ignorant? not only that you are also a loud mouth, typical of your race. I am not into this kind of postings but I have to give you back as good as you lied.

I know u r not chinese...hahaha...

If u think that i m dishonest, it is best that u ignore my postings. And I am putting u on my ignore list because I know u r dishonest, ignorant, evasive and loud mouth

 

[Forvendet]

PAP immigration is flawed in many ways but the most important flaw is that it's racially geared toward maintaining ethnic Chinese ratio in the population. That way, Singapore can never become a truly cosmopolitan country except keep pretending to be a Chinese colony. There's no such thing as ethnic Singaporean. Native Singaporeans are Malays, but just a few of them and became overwhelmed by Chinese soon after Sir Stamford Raffles founded Singapore as a city-port.

Raffles didn't preferentially want a Chinese majority. It just happened that in that era, there was a huge queue of Chinese migrants willing to take on the jobs that were necessary to help build Singapore into a city-port. He couldn't care less about the racial ratio as long as the work got done and city got developed.

PAP now is different. It's still about racial proportion engineering. Look at all our new PRs and citizens. I can safely guarantee you 90% PRC Chinese, Malaysian Chinese and Indonesian Chinese. Malaysian and Indonesian Chinese who chose to come here would come naturally, and would enjoy a smooth and swift approval process. But for PAP their numbers are still not enough, so PAP actually went to PRC to invite and entice PRC Chinese to come over on a red carpet through an open gate. What do we get? 2nd and 3rd division calibre who wanted to get out of China but couldn't make it to western countries, real first world countries.

 

[TracyTan866]

PAP immigration is flawed in many ways but the most important flaw is that it's racially geared toward maintaining ethnic Chinese ratio in the population.

That's very true. The pap has tried many ways to social engineer SG...and this has caused many problems...the "Stop-at-Two" policy, the "Graduate Mother" scheme, etc.

social engineering is not an exact science and normally has future consequences

 

[TracyTan866]

PAP now is different. It's still about racial proportion engineering. Look at all our new PRs and citizens. I can safely guarantee you 90% PRC Chinese, Malaysian Chinese and Indonesian Chinese. Malaysian and Indonesian Chinese who chose to come here would come naturally, and would enjoy a smooth and swift approval process. But for PAP their numbers are still not enough, so PAP actually went to PRC to invite and entice PRC Chinese to come over on a red carpet through an open gate. What do we get? 2nd and 3rd division calibre who wanted to get out of China but couldn't make it to western countries, real first world countries.

That's very true...and this antagonises many Singaporeans

 

[jw5]

There's one way that the migrant policy can be changed.
Make every ministar or mos and his family have dinner with a migrant family every weekend.
The migrant family will be based on the choice of SBF forummers.
It can be the foreign IT executive (possibly with the bullshit and fake cv), his obese wife, 3 spoilt brats and 4 parents/in-laws.
The ah tiong's family will be fine too, try to get those who talk loudly and dig their noses in public.

I bet you the migrant population will be reduced by half by year end.

 

[TracyTan866]

There's one way that the migrant policy can be changed.
Make every ministar or mos and his family have dinner with a migrant family every weekend.
The migrant family will be based on the choice of SBF forummers.
It can be the foreign IT executive (possibly with the bullshit and fake cv), his obese wife, 3 spoilt brats and 4 parents/in-laws.
The ah tiong's family will be fine too, try to get those who talk loudly and dig their noses in public.

I bet you the migrant population will be reduced by half by year end.

yes, the pap CEC and cabinet ministers shd experience the inconveniences Singaporeans have to go thru because of this flawed policy

 

[Simbian]

PAP immigration is flawed in many ways but the most important flaw is that it's racially geared toward maintaining ethnic Chinese ratio in the population. That way, Singapore can never become a truly cosmopolitan country except keep pretending to be a Chinese colony. There's no such thing as ethnic Singaporean. Native Singaporeans are Malays, but just a few of them and became overwhelmed by Chinese soon after Sir Stamford Raffles founded Singapore as a city-port.

Raffles didn't preferentially want a Chinese majority. It just happened that in that era, there was a huge queue of Chinese migrants willing to take on the jobs that were necessary to help build Singapore into a city-port. He couldn't care less about the racial ratio as long as the work got done and city got developed.

PAP now is different. It's still about racial proportion engineering. Look at all our new PRs and citizens. I can safely guarantee you 90% PRC Chinese, Malaysian Chinese and Indonesian Chinese. Malaysian and Indonesian Chinese who chose to come here would come naturally, and would enjoy a smooth and swift approval process. But for PAP their numbers are still not enough, so PAP actually went to PRC to invite and entice PRC Chinese to come over on a red carpet through an open gate. What do we get? 2nd and 3rd division calibre who wanted to get out of China but couldn't make it to western countries, real first world countries.

This has been the case since... god knows when. Independence? I know this because my old English teacher in secondary school, a Scotsman who speaks perfect English and who is totally committed to teaching applied for citizenship many times, yet was rejected again and again. Even the other teachers who wrote testimonials for him were genuinely baffled why such an upstanding gentleman like him could not get Singaporean citizenship despite being committed to dropping his UK citizenship.

It is pointless to label Singapore as first world when many of our government's policies remains rooted in 1950's thinking. Especially warped thinking espoused by the Old Man.

 

[TracyTan866]

This has been the case since... god knows when. Independence? I know this because my old English teacher in secondary school, a Scotsman who speaks perfect English and who is totally committed to teaching applied for citizenship many times, yet was rejected again and again. Even the other teachers who wrote testimonials for him were genuinely baffled why such an upstanding gentleman like him could not get Singaporean citizenship despite being committed to dropping his UK citizenship.

It is pointless to label Singapore as first world when many of our government's policies remains rooted in 1950's thinking. Especially warped thinking espoused by the Old Man.

Thanks for sharing your experience. It confirms many of our views of the pap. they have ulterior motives

 

[coolguy]

Actually they may be some sort of future agreement with sg govt and these countries. E.g If you invest in my country, you must let my citizens work and live in your country.
Your know lah. Sg got a lot of $$, mostly from peasants hard earned coffers. So went to other countries invest here and there. Naturally have to sign lots of agreement.
To pap, win-win situation. Can make money in other countries, as well as solve labour shortage by letting in these "FT".
Yet at the same time, depressing the wages of sporeans, no need to pay them so high pay.
This is call killing 3 birds with one stone. PAP Huat AH!