PAP struggling with WP's multi-prong attack.

[lockeliberal]

Dear GMS

I would add that coming from a position whereby I believed after GE 2006 that the WP was to tame at times with SL and LTK, They have shifted after GE 2011 to a more challenging role both in substance and with a little more rhetoric whereby post GE 2006, SL and LTK speeches were as fun and as interesting as watching paint dry.

Your approach whilst correct in theory is at best a theory which applies when there are substantive numbers and the semblance of a shadow cabinet. Six out of 82 whilst impressive in Singapore terms is still nothing. LTK does not have the numbers and what you say would probably apply with a number near 1/3 of total seats or thereabouts.




Locke

Dear Scroobal,

To a certain extend, I would agree with you that the multi-prongs approach is taking toll on PAP. After decades of absence of real challenge in parliament, PAP isn't that used to handle 9 opposition MPs at one shot.

However, for every strategy taken, there bound to have "trade off". With limited MPs, spreading out in multi-prong approach, you will find that actually WP has spread themselves too thin. In fact, they were not able to lend support power to each other during the parliamentary debate. Only LTK managed to do a last minute support for two of his party colleagues at the later part of parliamentary debate but not during the onslaught. This is the shortcoming that they will need to overcome: they will have to be on the look out on how to help other party colleagues to fight off PAP attacks, especially so when the attacks are full of holes.

There is one underlying tone which I find disturbing though. I think, in spite of our disgust of PM Lee's fumble on "fix the opposition", he got it right politically that opposition parties are not there to help PAP to be better. Technically, they are political opponents and thus,it is understandable that they would view each criticism by opposition as "threats". However, it seems to me that WP MPs were trying very hard to tell PAP that we are here to provide feedback to you and give you some ideas so that you can make better policies.

The CSM's "inappropriate" (yes, in my view that is totally inappropriate) analogy about Tang Emperor and Wei Zheng has such underlying tone. Pritam's attempt to "help" PAP in "engaging" Singaporeans is another case in view. I find that quite amusing but disturbing as well.

It is the job of PAP MPs to help their ministers to do their job better. The ruling party's role is to rule, make policies etc. The role of opposition party is to oppose or criticise policies which they think is against public interests. Their role is to contest against policy ideas but not to help the ruling party to refine policies, least, suggest better policy options for the ruling party. This is the modern "Political Ethics" based on democratic principles.

There are rooms for improvement but one note, LTK is definitely not Lim Chin Song. LCS failed politically but LTK has, though in my view a very conservative way, edged on politically.

Although you may have some misgiving about Indranee, but she did make the best speech among the PAP MPs. A respectable opponent I should say. My first engagement with Indranee in Talking point left me a strong impression of this Senior Counsel. She is worth her salt as SC.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Bigfuck]

u know the way to win but dunno how to apply it for your victory.

wp is not providing answers to the pap but making a show to convince the general public (the middle ground) that wp is helping pap to govern. The middle gound (40%) do not want a confrontation opposition party but a opposition party that can replace pap when pap flounder. wp is just wayanging lol.

A clown is a clown is a clown. Politicians that are qualified to talk big, win elections and go around meeting, people, not coming here to chat. WP can say what they want in parliament and have it recorded in history through parliament proceedings - they earn that right. Some people are just wannabes. That is a fact. And election vote ratios are a fact, too.

 

[myfoot123]

Dear Scroobal,

However, it seems to me that WP MPs were trying very hard to tell PAP that we are here to provide feedback to you and give you some ideas so that you can make better policies.

The CSM's "inappropriate" (yes, in my view that is totally inappropriate) analogy about Tang Emperor and Wei Zheng has such underlying tone. Pritam's attempt to "help" PAP in "engaging" Singaporeans is another case in view. I find that quite amusing but disturbing as well.
Goh Meng Seng

You need to get closer to the enemy to attack them, even if you have to fake frienship. If you kept your distance the like of CSJ, making clear boundary, it will be difficult to penetrate the lion's lair....so to speak.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Dear Locke,

You know my position. Yes, in terms of speech and the use of statistics, WP has a long way in improvement. The reluctance of using statistics in the past, is not the absence of data but rather, the lack of confidence on whether the statistics could withstand onslaught from PAP.

In terms of subtle "attacks" (I would say criticism), yes, the speeches by new WP MPs have moved up a notch from 2006.

Whether you have 1 or 6 or 40 MPs, the unwritten rule still stand. Opposition MPs perform their role very differently from ruling party MPs. But apparently, it is a bit strange to see some PAP MPs more opposition than opposition while Opposition MPs are trying to perform like PAP MPs.

Goh Meng Seng

Dear GMS

I would add that coming from a position whereby I believed after GE 2006 that the WP was to tame at times with SL and LTK, They have shifted after GE 2011 to a more challenging role both in substance and with a little more rhetoric whereby post GE 2006, SL and LTK speeches were as fun and as interesting as watching paint dry.

Your approach whilst correct in theory is at best a theory which applies when there are substantive numbers and the semblance of a shadow cabinet. Six out of 82 whilst impressive in Singapore terms is still nothing. LTK does not have the numbers and what you say would probably apply with a number near 1/3 of total seats or thereabouts.




Locke

 

[myfoot123]

LOL LSS should do the honourable thing. Give the man a knife Jap style LOL

It will be insulting to the honourable knife....hahaha. I suggest a huge dildo to be custom-made for him and presented to him by all union members on next labour day. He has screwed up all workers in Singapore, there is no better way of returnining him our appreciation in recognition of his "cheaper, better and faster" slogan.

 

[Man in the streets]

Singapore parliament is not a place where policies are made !

Opposing PAP too obviously will not win votes.

If WP MPs try to be more PAP -like MPs, they can win votes !

At this juncture, the chief objective is to win votes !

Heroes cannot win votes at the parliament !

Things naturally change if WP can have 30 more MPs at the parliament !

Winning votes in singapore is like playing chess, we have daft voters !

See far not see near !

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

There will always be clear boundary in between but it matters where you draw them.

I am not advocating "fake friendship" nor "clear animosity". Two lawyers can maintain cordial relationship or even have opportunities to work together on other cases, but when they are representing their clients against each other, each of them must perform their roles professionally. i.e. There are lines to be drawn when there is a need to draw them.

Those PAP MPs and ministers who kept shouting "where are your suggestions" are the ones who have not made clear distinctions of the roles between the ruling and the opposition. Basically it means that they don't even know the "political ethics" 政治伦理. In the ancient times, it would only mean that there could only be one kind of relationship, the Emperor and the subjects. 君君臣臣 kind of relationship, that kind of relationship between Tang Emperor and Wei Zheng. But now, in modern days, the relationship is totally different. The ruling party may switch role with the opposition party one day and life will still go on peacefully.

The relationship between the ruling party and opposition party is no longer the same Emperor-subject relationship. Thus, it is quite shocking actually to see CSM trying to put modern context into ancient analogy with such weird intention.

I thought that may be a slip of mind or tongue until I read what Pritam said. It just makes me wonder whether Political Ethics has changed for WP.

The mid term or even long term aim of ANY opposition party is to become the ruling party. The main aim of any ruling party is to keep itself in power as long as possible.


Goh Meng Seng

You need to get closer to the enemy to attack them, even if you have to fake frienship. If you kept your distance the like of CSJ, making clear boundary, it will be difficult to penetrate the lion's lair....so to speak.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear GMS

Rules are meant to be broken and adapted :_)) You would have made a fine civil servant for well following the rules. As it is there are no rules just principles and politicians of all persuasions including the PAP You and LTK should have the flexibility of mind to adapt principles as and when they see fit .

Principles Rules and its application matters and will apply differently at 8, 18 and 28. Whilst Post GE 2006, I felt the balance was off, Post GE 2011 I felt the balance was there. The last batch of idiots and nincompoops who won in 1991 lost it all in one terms , I do not expect the WP to follow that same playbook of opposing mindlessly. What did the class of 1991 fail to do that the class of 2011 has to deliver ? Frankly put , they have to deliver the following in the next five years on the ground and in parliament and it is a task I do not envy them for.

a. Competence in Parliament and in their Constituency ( Ling Cheo are the examples of what not to do )

b. Cohesion ( Do not Talk Cock Ling to Chiam another example )

c. Confidence ( Not the PAP's confidence in the opposition , but the people's confidence in the opposition ). That the opposition is permanent and loyal whilst opposing on principle.




Locke

Dear Locke,

You know my position. Yes, in terms of speech and the use of statistics, WP has a long way in improvement. The reluctance of using statistics in the past, is not the absence of data but rather, the lack of confidence on whether the statistics could withstand onslaught from PAP.

In terms of subtle "attacks" (I would say criticism), yes, the speeches by new WP MPs have moved up a notch from 2006.

Whether you have 1 or 6 or 40 MPs, the unwritten rule still stand. Opposition MPs perform their role very differently from ruling party MPs. But apparently, it is a bit strange to see some PAP MPs more opposition than opposition while Opposition MPs are trying to perform like PAP MPs.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Robert Half]

Poor guys, the 1991 SDP MP are alway been remembered for their poor performance

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Well, you better hope it is a joke because if I am that easily bought over by PAP, life will be very very difficult for nasty insects and all in WP. Well, only Chinese Educated would understand and appreciate that.

Goh Meng Seng

It's just a joke. Only the English educated can understand and appreciate.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Actually, that is exactly how PAP MPs feel about CSM, don't you know that?

Goh Meng Seng

hahaha.... u r wei zheng???? hahaha.... manz... your skin must be hippo grade.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Goh Mean Seng,

I understand your point fully. But do you know when I spoke to the older generation recently, they all said CSM very tok-kong, that his arguments in Parliament appeared very "learned".

The POINT is ... members of the PUBLIC will not read too much into it, they will see CSM as just a learned gentleman who can use history as a guide to the present. ONLY you and I will go and analyse until DIE!!!

All I see here really is WORKER PARTY scoring good political points with the average man on the street, while people like you and I are wondering what to do in the meantime! Isn't that it?!?!

The relationship between the ruling party and opposition party is no longer the same Emperor-subject relationship. Thus, it is quite shocking actually to see CSM trying to put modern context into ancient analogy with such weird intention.
Goh Meng Seng

 

[sleaguepunter]

Actually, that is exactly how PAP MPs feel about CSM, don't you know that?

Goh Meng Seng

say u think skin u also want to implicate csm. it may be true that csm is thick skin but again the way u want to prove a point make u look bad again. are u a petty man and cannot accept truthful rebuke?

and by the way, i bet 80% of pap mps dont know who was wei zheng in the first place. it just a figure of speech, if pap really believe csm will do a wei zheng, then they need a brain transfussion. who know, lhl now in cloud nine as if csm is wei zheng then lhl is li shiming.

i have no idea why u left wp but if u really think u were wrongly treated, then voice out lah. dont be like a guniang and keep harping about it. what u are doing now only make u look bad. if wp members really are pest, then it your duty as a politician to speak the truth so that the electorate know the truth person behind the political front.

 

[Forvendet]

Goh Mean Seng,

I understand your point fully. But do you know when I spoke to the older generation recently, they all said CSM very tok-kong, that his arguments in Parliament appeared very "learned".

The POINT is ... members of the PUBLIC will not read too much into it, they will see CSM as just a learned gentleman who can use history as a guide to the present. ONLY you and I will go and analyse until DIE!!!

All I see here really is WORKER PARTY scoring good political points with the average man on the street, while people like you and I are wondering what to do in the meantime! Isn't that it?!?!

You're right. Most voters of Aljunied and Hougang don't remember what policies or ideals WP talked about in the rallies. They just felt the PAP pressure and wanted change. If you don't sound good enough, they'd rather live with the pressure. If you sound good enough, they'd vote for you. What's the purpose of voting representatives into Parliament and running town councils? It's so that you don't have to worry about it anymore and get on with life. If you want to worry about and analyze policies everyday, then find a role to play in politics. The vast majority of voters are not in this category. Winners understand that.

 

[sleaguepunter]

The POINT is ... members of the PUBLIC will not read too much into it, they will see CSM as just a learned gentleman who can use history as a guide to the present. ONLY you and I will go and analyse until DIE!!!

All I see here really is WORKER PARTY scoring good political points with the average man on the street, while people like you and I are wondering what to do in the meantime! Isn't that it?!?!

that the idea of the game, score points with the average man which maybe converted to electoral votes. come here to kpkb equal zero vote. wp is playing to win while mr gms here want to win by principles.

 

[Robert Half]

say u think skin u also want to implicate csm. it may be true that csm is thick skin but again the way u want to prove a point make u look bad again. are u a petty man and cannot accept truthful rebuke?

and by the way, i bet 80% of pap mps dont know who was wei zheng in the first place. it just a figure of speech, if pap really believe csm will do a wei zheng, then they need a brain transfussion. who know, lhl now in cloud nine as if csm is wei zheng then lhl is li shiming.

i have no idea why u left wp but if u really think u were wrongly treated, then voice out lah. dont be like a guniang and keep harping about it. what u are doing now only make u look bad. if wp members really are pest, then it your duty as a politician to speak the truth so that the electorate know the truth person behind the political front.

If he stay on with WP probably he is an elected MP in Aljunied GRC now. Life sometimes can be very unfair :(

 

[zhihau]

The POINT is ... members of the PUBLIC will not read too much into it, they will see CSM as just a learned gentleman who can use history as a guide to the present.

perhaps this is exactly where GMS falters, with TKL's margins to boot.

 

[GoldenDragon]

If he stay on with WP probably he is an elected MP in Aljunied GRC now. Life sometimes can be very unfair :(

Not too sure about that. With WP's team in Aljunied, where to find a slot for GMS? Just my guess - I doubt if the WP leadership thinks highly of GMS.

 

[HedgeTrader]

GMS Wei Zheng? More like Yang Xiu cross river LOL

CSM more like Zhuge Liang cross river LOL

 

[Robert Half]

Not too sure about that. With WP's team in Aljunied, where to find a slot for GMS? Just my guess - I doubt if the WP leadership thinks highly of GMS.

GMS is part of the WP's team in Aljunied GRC GE 2006 so naturally one will think he will retain the slot in GE 2011 assumingly he stay on with WP.

Maybe GMS will feel better if WP did not win Aljunied GRC but win in East Coast or other GRC.