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On voting for opposition

lockeliberal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Dear Scroobal

My own take. Electorate's all over the world demand educated, well read politicians to lead. Taking out the odd Ronald Regan Movie Star, those that have aspired and led in political office in democratic countries been largely well read, well educated and who feel a calling and passion to serve, the very same passion that the PAP believes can be bought.

The political talent pool in Singapore is limited and the opposition will not be served by half wits and nit wits who believe that all is required for opposition in Singapore is a passion to oppose.

Political Talent in other countries is a brutal game, win lose, you are out with no second chances. Singapore oh please, the PAP stacks the electoral game in its favor in the form of a " Guranteeded Risk Free Career" with second chances for people like Mah Boh Tan. For the opposition, people who should have died out and retired from opposition politics a long time ago still stick around like a bloody vampire somewhat LKY. To paraphrase MM, I will stick around in opposition politics forever and if I see anything going wrong....I will rise from my political grave.

Names that come to mind, Cheo Chai Chen, Ling How Doong. Wong Hong Toy With characters like these in the Opposition voting the PAP becomes very very easy. The equation you might not trust me but can you trust that bunch of "jokers" ?. JBJ for all his passion and articulateness could not built and sustain a party and a movement, he recruited like minded individuals who were all Anti Gov with a passion because they all had a beef but were not willing to stick around to build a movement. Chiam tried got burned by his protege, and spent the next twenty years not trusting anyone and turning into an embittered old man. Chee for all of his comments abt the Leetocracy still has to recruit his own sister into the party to sustain control, doesn't anyone see how closely in that respects the PAP mirrors the SDP ? LTK has had only one serious GE under his belt but he does not have that many GE's left to prove his mark.

We need qualified people not just a bicycle thief. For one the YPAP understands the weaknesses of its parent party and is seeking change and there were hints of that with regards to it trying to learn lessons from the CCP. In my own view I do not see a similar need within the opposition camp for intellectual reflection and renewal.

And personally if the only call the opposition can offer is " Give me liberty or give me bankruptcy" then they will be always left with the inept and suicidal,





Locke
 

zhihau

Super Moderator
SuperMod
Asset
Good point, choice is not an option at this stage. Reducing the PAP monopoly is the first and only priority.

i second this notion, the incumbent have been granted the privilege of the >2/3 majority with such comfort for a season too long... :eek:
 

Perspective

Alfrescian
Loyal
In fact, I think the opposite will occur. It will begin to attract better qualified opposition candidates. They will be heartened by the fact that a constituency is so desperate for an alternative voice that they are prepared to make such a choice.

That's a good point, I must say, although hypothetical but good.
 

Perspective

Alfrescian
Loyal
Good point, choice is not an option at this stage. Reducing the PAP monopoly is the first and only priority.

At times I feel we have to be fair to understand the reason why 66.6 voted PAP, find out the reasons rather than dismiss them as docile.

It's the same reason why people don't want to join the opposition and stand for election. There are more opinion makers in cyberspace in one year than the total number of opposition candidates in the last 12 elections add together. If we are waiting to vote opposition, how to when there's no one to stand? And why do we not stand for election? It's the same fear, only that the level of fear is different.

84 spaces in the opposition and there is problem for 84,000 opposition voters to fill them. And the 84,000 are wondering why 840,000 PAP voters didn't follow suit.
 
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scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
At times I feel we have to be fair to understand the reason why 66.6 voted PAP, find out the reasons rather than dismiss them as docile.
I do not know why you got the impression that I "dismiss them as docile".

Firstly, not all electoral divisions were contested. In the 2006 GE, only 56% of all eligible voters could vote as the rest were walkover. Of these 56%, only 94%. PAP received 748,000 votes. Thats a shade above 1/8th of total population.

Secondly, GRCs by virtue of their design and numbers is a massive task for any opposition political to undertake. If the intention is to allow fair representation of the major races in Singapore, then out of the 84 electoral wards, some should have remained as only eligible for designated race candidate, rather than the GRC formation.

In essence, the human mind logically would pick the best candidate to represent their needs. Unfortunately, the logical process has been met with hobson's choice by design.

The people who worst affected by this are hardworking but simple minded singaporeans who I refer to as simpletons who genuinely feel that they are picking the best candidate because they are unaware of the uneven playing field.
 

leetahbar

Alfrescian
Loyal
Dear Scroobal

My own take. Electorate's all over the world demand educated, well read politicians to lead. Taking out the odd Ronald Regan Movie Star, those that have aspired and led in political office in democratic countries been largely well read, well educated and who feel a calling and passion to serve, the very same passion that the PAP believes can be bought.

The political talent pool in Singapore is limited and the opposition will not be served by half wits and nit wits who believe that all is required for opposition in Singapore is a passion to oppose.

Political Talent in other countries is a brutal game, win lose, you are out with no second chances. Singapore oh please, the PAP stacks the electoral game in its favor in the form of a " Guranteeded Risk Free Career" with second chances for people like Mah Boh Tan. For the opposition, people who should have died out and retired from opposition politics a long time ago still stick around like a bloody vampire somewhat LKY. To paraphrase MM, I will stick around in opposition politics forever and if I see anything going wrong....I will rise from my political grave.

Names that come to mind, Cheo Chai Chen, Ling How Doong. Wong Hong Toy With characters like these in the Opposition voting the PAP becomes very very easy. The equation you might not trust me but can you trust that bunch of "jokers" ?. JBJ for all his passion and articulateness could not built and sustain a party and a movement, he recruited like minded individuals who were all Anti Gov with a passion because they all had a beef but were not willing to stick around to build a movement. Chiam tried got burned by his protege, and spent the next twenty years not trusting anyone and turning into an embittered old man. Chee for all of his comments abt the Leetocracy still has to recruit his own sister into the party to sustain control, doesn't anyone see how closely in that respects the PAP mirrors the SDP ? LTK has had only one serious GE under his belt but he does not have that many GE's left to prove his mark.

We need qualified people not just a bicycle thief. For one the YPAP understands the weaknesses of its parent party and is seeking change and there were hints of that with regards to it trying to learn lessons from the CCP. In my own view I do not see a similar need within the opposition camp for intellectual reflection and renewal.

And personally if the only call the opposition can offer is " Give me liberty or give me bankruptcy" then they will be always left with the inept and suicidal,

Locke

great and insightful post, locke! but beware. those SDPpies do not swallow their pride that easily. the half-wits and nitwits are best in misleading the masses. betrayal and cowardice within their behaviour are something they are most proud of. by the way, without discords sown incessantly among their fishmonger's wife, life would be really quite boring.:p
 

char_jig_kar

Alfrescian
Loyal
fuck the GE.

really.

the PAP had tweaked the game out of shape. its seriously titled in favor for the PAP. its like a chess game. the PAP take out white bishops take out white knights take out the white queen, take out 4 white pawns, and ask the Opposition to play the white side. and then the Opposition gleefully said, 'Never mind, let me try again.' Chee bye... WHAT THE FUCK? JUST BOYCOTT THE FUCKING GAME! TRY SI MI LANG JIAO??? ITS A UNFAIR GAME TO START WITH! SO WHY PLAY? WHY HELP PAP TO MAKE THEM PAP LOOK GOOD??

WOULDN'T IT BE HURTING THIS COUNTRY MORE TO PUT UP A FALSE FRONT, TO PRETEND THAT WE HAVE A DEMOCRACY BUT IN FACT WE HAVE A AUTHORITARIAN GOVT SYSTEM IN DISGUISE? WHY HELP THE PAP TO LIE TO THE WORLD? THE GE 'GAME' IS A UNFAIR GAME TO START WITH BECAUSE PAP HAD TWEAKED IT OUT OF SHAPE, SERIOUSLY IN FAVOR OF PAP. SO WHY PLAY??? WHY NOT JUST BOYCOTT IT??
 
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guavatree

Alfrescian
Loyal
old faggot BobDog misleading the masses!

the half-wits and nitwits are best in misleading the masses.

unemployed parasite old fart faggot fake monk PAP dog Bob Sim Kheng Hwee,

temple thief, swindler, fraudster, cheat, con-artist, liar, hypocrite, deceiver, all rolled into one!

who the fuck you trying to bluff?

everyone knows you're the NITWIT pap running dog misleading the masses!
 

Porfirio Rubirosa

Alfrescian
Loyal
The way I see it, the rationale behind voting any oppo under the sun (except that piece of shit Yaw Shin Leong well to me anyways) is based on present ground realities. The idea is to try to force PAP to quicken the pace of liberalising the system which they control so tightly because PAP (it is assumed) would be alarmed that the electorate has to react in such an irrational manner to send a message to PAP to stop hijacking the system to keep them in power in perpetuity.

If this objective is achieved, well as best as can be, then we can talk about quality of oppo candidates. The first step is to try and get PAP to change the system to a fairer more level playing field first.

Now, if a bicycle thief got the same votes as the good opposition candidates because everyone voted the same way, would that encourage the quality to improve? Would good opposition not stop improving themselves, since the CEO of an MNC who joins the opposition knows that even he become a bicycle thief or bank robber, his votes will not drop?

After all, we wish to see improved quality of opposition because voting opposition for opposition sake can't go on forever, but keeping good people away from the opposition doesn't seem to help either.
 

chewed

Alfrescian
Loyal
oh yes, boycotting the GE will shame the PAP so much that they will immediately disband & FO....and the International community will discover that SG has a sham elections and will boycott SG & send troops to remove the PAP.

talk about being naive & having delusions of granduer....some jokers just have no clue!
 

char_jig_kar

Alfrescian
Loyal
The way I see it, the rationale behind voting any oppo under the sun (except that piece of shit Yaw Shin Leong well to me anyways) is based on present ground realities. The idea is to try to force PAP to quicken the pace of liberalising the system which they control so tightly because PAP (it is assumed) would be alarmed that the electorate has to react in such an irrational manner to send a message to PAP to stop hijacking the system to keep them in power in perpetuity.

If this objective is achieved, well as best as can be, then we can talk about quality of oppo candidates. The first step is to try and get PAP to change the system to a fairer more level playing field first.

u mean, the PAP if they lose a few seats, they will thus start liberalize the system?? on the flip side of the coin, the PAP could further tighten up the system.
 
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Porfirio Rubirosa

Alfrescian
Loyal
Just look at the apparent wayang Tan Kin Lian has been conducting and the answer should be obvious:wink:
It's the same reason why people don't want to join the opposition and stand for election. There are more opinion makers in cyberspace in one year than the total number of opposition candidates in the last 12 elections add together. If we are waiting to vote opposition, how to when there's no one to stand? And why do we not stand for election? It's the same fear, only that the level of fear is different.

.
 

char_jig_kar

Alfrescian
Loyal
oh yes, boycotting the GE will shame the PAP so much that they will immediately disband & FO....and the International community will discover that SG has a sham elections and will boycott SG & send troops to remove the PAP.

talk about being naive & having delusions of granduer....some jokers just have no clue!

who talk about international community would send troops and remove PAP? not me. u jokers did.
 

Porfirio Rubirosa

Alfrescian
Loyal
You don't seem to get it. It is not about losing afew seats per se. It is about why the electorate would rather vote in a bicycle thief as opposed to a PAP educated elite? Why the electorate has resorted to such an irrational act?

PAP is many things but it is not stupid and also it cannot resort to old authoritarian tricks of the past because it is a different world now with a different more educated travelled sophisticated electorate. A compromise of sorts has to be reached between the PAP and the eelctorate, well that is the idea anyways.

u mean, the PAP if they lose a few seats, they will thus start liberalize the system?? on the flip side of the coin, the PAP could further tighten up the system.
 

char_jig_kar

Alfrescian
Loyal
You don't seem to get it. It is not about losing afew seats per se. It is about why the electorate would rather vote in a bicycle thief as opposed to a PAP educated elite? Why the electorate has resorted to such an irrational act?

PAP is many things but it is not stupid and also it cannot resort to old authoritarian tricks of the past because it is a different world now with a different more educated travelled sophisticated electorate. A compromise of sorts has to be reached between the PAP and the eelctorate, well that is the idea anyways.

Your logic is flawed.

U are assuming that the PAP would go into introspective mode, and thus liberalize the system when they see the appearance of a 'bicycle thief' in the parliament. Think again.

With PAP track record in tweaking Spore system in favor for them PAP, do u think they would go the direction of liberalizing the system when they see a 'bicycle thief' in the parliament, or would they tighten the system further???
 

Porfirio Rubirosa

Alfrescian
Loyal
Not flawed, just a strategy based on present ground realities. Can the PAP really tighten the system as you say based on the changes in Singapore society now and in the future and also based on PAPs desire to make Singapore into a world class most liveable city state?

Let's just put it this way, if PAP tightens up the system as you seem to think, what shall be the electorate's reaction now and in the future? Just think about one simple eg. PAP has not used ISA against its political opponents since 1987, why? Because the growing more educated travelled sophiscated electorate would not tolerate this much longer, also because of international developed country norms.


Your logic is flawed.

U are assuming that the PAP would go into introspective mode, and thus liberalize the system when they see the appearance of a 'bicycle thief' in the parliament. Think again.

With PAP track record in tweaking Spore system in favor for them PAP, do u think they would go the direction of liberalize the system when they see a 'bicycle thief' in the parliament, or they would further tighten the system???
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
oh yes, boycotting the GE will shame the PAP so much that they will immediately disband & FO....and the International community will discover that SG has a sham elections and will boycott SG & send troops to remove the PAP.

talk about being naive & having delusions of granduer....some jokers just have no clue!

Thats was well expressed and poignant. One would have thought hindsight on Barisan and 18 years of no opposition would have helped.
 

char_jig_kar

Alfrescian
Loyal
Not flawed, just a strategy based on present ground realities. Can the PAP really tighten the system as you say based on the changes in Singapore society now and in the future and also based on PAPs desire to make Singapore into a world class most liveable city state?

Let's just put it this way, if PAP tightens up the system as you seem to think, what shall be the electorate's reaction now and in the future? Just think about one simple eg. PAP has not used ISA against its political opponents since 1987, why? Because the growing more educated travelled sophiscated electorate would not tolerate this much longer, also because of international developed country norms.

i still cant see the link between voting in screw up Opposition such as YSL, and PAP liberalize the system, which u suggest.
 
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