My 'essay' on why SG opposition should unite

[uncleyap]

Unity is strength, but like anything else in this world it come at a price, not free and not cheap too.

It is my personal experience.

I paid price to work together with opposition, I won't point out which or who for this purpose, but the price is PAINFUL NEGOTIATION & SEVERE COMPROMISE IN POLITICAL STANDS. Not every party can take that and not every compromised cooperation can last long. Some times compromised cooperation can lapse, some time can be renewed, some time can not.

To see some unity, it REQUIRES and definitely called for MUTUAL compromising. Weather can be united or not really only depending on weather willing to compromise or not.

The REALITY problem is after some time into the cooperation or unity, one side or both sides will start to feel that they are unhappy to cope with compromise. They will feel that they are on the losing end of the deal. They will be unhappy to continue further. Then the compromised cooperation will lapse and they will each go their own ways.

This is why we had been seeing members and candidates moving among different parties.

There is only one clear advantage to justify the price paid for compromise, that is clearly assured victory against ruling party. Unless there is this price ASSURED, there is not enough motivation to pay the price and compromise.

Malaysian PAS & DAP compromised and moved together towards Anwar, that gave some results. But as we can see some things are falling apart after election victory. That is what I had expected.

:(

Personally I had compromised a huge amount since last GE. Some of the agreements made then already lapsed.

 

[Maximilian Chua-Heng]

Good insights from the inside by UY.

With so much ego and such a small slice of the pie to fight for, I doubt the Opposition will ever unite.

Unity is strength, but like anything else in this world it come at a price, not free and not cheap too.

It is my personal experience.

I paid price to work together with opposition, I won't point out which or who for this purpose, but the price is PAINFUL NEGOTIATION & SEVERE COMPROMISE IN POLITICAL STANDS. Not every party can take that and not every compromised cooperation can last long. Some times compromised cooperation can lapse, some time can be renewed, some time can not.

To see some unity, it REQUIRES and definitely called for MUTUAL compromising. Weather can be united or not really only depending on weather willing to compromise or not.

The REALITY problem is after some time into the cooperation or unity, one side or both sides will start to feel that they are unhappy to cope with compromise. They will feel that they are on the losing end of the deal. They will be unhappy to continue further. Then the compromised cooperation will lapse and they will each go their own ways.

This is why we had been seeing members and candidates moving among different parties.

There is only one clear advantage to justify the price paid for compromise, that is clearly assured victory against ruling party. Unless there is this price ASSURED, there is not enough motivation to pay the price and compromise.

Malaysian PAS & DAP compromised and moved together towards Anwar, that gave some results. But as we can see some things are falling apart after election victory. That is what I had expected.

:(

Personally I had compromised a huge amount since last GE. Some of the agreements made then already lapsed.

 

[Velma]

It (PAP) will be out, but a matter of time.

What people, including the opposition supporters, need to understand is the problem is not opposition unity or one opposition party (for one opposition party combining many weak opposition is also still weak) but the PAP is high above the rest.

It's not opposition is weak but PAP is strong (and there's a difference).

And it needs to be knocked down into the size of the other parties with whatever voters and people can get their hands on.

PAP is only powerful because Lee Kuan Yew is still alive and pulling the strings. There are definitely a number in PAP who are dissatisfied with Lee Hsien Loong taking over, but dare not voice out for fear of the old man's retaliations. If Old Man dies, it will be interesting to see what will unravel.

Sometimes, I wonder, is Singapore going to be similar to Japan, where the best opposition came from defectors from the incumbent (DPJ). If so, we can only wish for some PAP MPs to defect and form their own party, though possibility is low because of the fat pay checks they are getting.

 

[Velma]

Nah, don't listen to Ram's "crap" Most opposition politicians, let alone opposition members, cannot produce an accurate study/analysis of why Singapore opposition is in the state it is, coupled with layman and down-to-earth food for thought.

Take James Gomez. He's probably the most scientific political scientist the opposition camp has produced but his ideas and papers are cheem to read and if you finally understood it, it says very little :p

A case of too much style over substance. If I remember correctly, only Goh Keng Swee was the only Old Guard member to be able to express his idea simply and straight to the point.

EDITED.

 

[Ramseth]

James Gomez is crap. What substance, what style? He went on longwindedly and nobody, PAP or oppositon, knows what's he's talking about. Then he lets his finger do the talking and wagered it at an ED official about consequences. Later, found out to be his own fault and almost got charged in court. If I was in ED or police then, I'd have insisted on charging him in court for criminal intimidation. He was lucky I was in WP then.

 

[Perspective]

There is only one clear advantage to justify the price paid for compromise, that is clearly assured victory against ruling party. Unless there is this price ASSURED, there is not enough motivation to pay the price and compromise.

Yes, well said. When no one has the secret of success, it is difficulty to find unity. Everyone will think they have the answer.

 

[Velma]

James Gomez is crap. What substance, what style? He went on longwindedly and nobody, PAP or oppositon, knows what's he's talking about. Then he lets his finger do the talking and wagered it at an ED official about consequences. Later, found out to be his own fault and almost got charged in court. If I was in ED or police then, I'd have insisted on charging him in court for criminal intimidation. He was lucky I was in WP then.

I mean too much style over substance. Pardon my typo. :o

That time, LKY wanted to charge him right but in the end, decided not to pursue.

 

[Perspective]

James Gomez is crap. What substance, what style? He went on longwindedly and nobody, PAP or oppositon, knows what's he's talking about. Then he lets his finger do the talking and wagered it at an ED official about consequences. Later, found out to be his own fault and almost got charged in court. If I was in ED or police then, I'd have insisted on charging him in court for criminal intimidation. He was lucky I was in WP then.

His person-centric, party centric theory (that people do not know how it works), the reason for opposition's failure is to harness the internet (which he had no answers and then went on to contradict himself in New Paper when rebutting Alex Au on the net's importance) and opposition unity must come from "public pressure" (as if the public cared other than dishing low votes to the opp which didn't seem to work on the "unity" aspect) - all doesn't even cut tofu with me, much less ice.

 

[Velma]

Unity is strength, but like anything else in this world it come at a price, not free and not cheap too.

It is my personal experience.

I paid price to work together with opposition, I won't point out which or who for this purpose, but the price is PAINFUL NEGOTIATION & SEVERE COMPROMISE IN POLITICAL STANDS. Not every party can take that and not every compromised cooperation can last long. Some times compromised cooperation can lapse, some time can be renewed, some time can not.

To see some unity, it REQUIRES and definitely called for MUTUAL compromising. Weather can be united or not really only depending on weather willing to compromise or not.

The REALITY problem is after some time into the cooperation or unity, one side or both sides will start to feel that they are unhappy to cope with compromise. They will feel that they are on the losing end of the deal. They will be unhappy to continue further. Then the compromised cooperation will lapse and they will each go their own ways.

This is why we had been seeing members and candidates moving among different parties.

There is only one clear advantage to justify the price paid for compromise, that is clearly assured victory against ruling party. Unless there is this price ASSURED, there is not enough motivation to pay the price and compromise.

Malaysian PAS & DAP compromised and moved together towards Anwar, that gave some results. But as we can see some things are falling apart after election victory. That is what I had expected.

:(

Personally I had compromised a huge amount since last GE. Some of the agreements made then already lapsed.

Politics is a dirty business, but the fact that you bother to make some sacrifices for a united front is good itself. Sadly, it did not really work, I assume. Guess, some opposition leaders have too much of an ego. Agree it is quite hard to cobble an alliance because one side feel he is giving in too much, takes a strong leader to unite them.

But still, salute your efforts for making us more aware of the Leegime deeds. This forum has been refreshing in providing the alternate view of government policies and has more maturity than HWZ.

 

[Ramseth]

I mean too much style over substance. Pardon my typo. :o

That time, LKY wanted to charge him right but in the end, decided not to pursue.

LKY gave face to LTK because LTK insisted it was an honest mistake and JG apologised already.

 

[Velma]

LKY gave face to LTK because LTK insisted it was an honest mistake and JG apologised already.

James Gomes' actions at that time dealt a blow to the Opposition. In football terms, an own goal.

 

[uncleyap]

Politics is a dirty business, but the fact that you bother to make some sacrifices for a united front is good itself. Sadly, it did not really work, I assume. Guess, some opposition leaders have too much of an ego. Agree it is quite hard to cobble an alliance because one side feel he is giving in too much, takes a strong leader to unite them.

But still, salute your efforts for making us more aware of the Leegime deeds. This forum has been refreshing in providing the alternate view of government policies and has more maturity than HWZ.

Political person's or groups Don't feel good at all to go about with compromising their own political values and positions, at least to myself it feels SUCKS. The opposition in SG consist of many people with ideas different from famiLEE LEEgime and different from one another within the opposition, most of them think highly of their own ideas and styles, and are too proud to compromise these. That is where problem lies.

E.g. my own principal is not to pay famiLEE LEEgime a single cent, but JBJ will want to pay famiLEE LEEgime to be discharged from bankruptcy, I compromised my position to help him raise fund to pay off the bastards. In my heart that feels SUCKS.

E.g. I am not of the position to abolish death penalty, but famiLEE LEEgime is oppressing and want to shut up the anti-DP group. I support them, but I have to make my stands clear, otherwise I will be wrongly view as switching my position one day. In the end some will think that I am opportunistic or I was spy from ISD. That is the price to pay for this kind of compromise.

Not everyone will be willing to pay the kind of price necessary.

When there is a very promising political victory impending, that will be attractive to opposition groups to compromise and come together, but this is actually dangerous & not lasting. It will come apart as easy as it came together. The people will be very soon disappointed. It MAY happen here like it did in Malaysia.

It is alike a big pie will attract many to come forward to work together in order to get hold of it. But after the pie is obtained, they will start to fight among to get a bigger share. In Malaysia there is at least one Mr. Anwar, we don't have 1 here.:(

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

The 'problems' in Malaysia are due to Parkatan MPs being paid of by UMNO. I know people there and it is not a secret amongst the people. But those that took money have been treated like shit after they left Parkatan. Their families have been shunned and even people at the markets refusing to sell to them.

On a separate note, for anyone to expect that a coalition means agree to everything then that is silly if they want a democracy.

I think all things can be set aside and everyone agree on one single thing and that is to have full democracy. Whether to lower NS or what to do with Temasek and GIC should all be debated in parliament and then voted in parliament like a proper democracy.

If they think that they have to agree on everything or most of the things before they join forces then it is of course impossible. Just like how our forefathers came together to remove the British, the APs should have that common sight and to set democracy on its way in SG.

Then leave the policies to be decided in parliament and voted by the MPs with the blessings of the people.

It is a simple thing but some make it difficult.

 

[Velma]

Political person's or groups Don't feel good at all to go about with compromising their own political values and positions, at least to myself it feels SUCKS. The opposition in SG consist of many people with ideas different from famiLEE LEEgime and different from one another within the opposition, most of them think highly of their own ideas and styles, and are too proud to compromise these. That is where problem lies.

E.g. my own principal is not to pay famiLEE LEEgime a single cent, but JBJ will want to pay famiLEE LEEgime to be discharged from bankruptcy, I compromised my position to help him raise fund to pay off the bastards. In my heart that feels SUCKS.

E.g. I am not of the position to abolish death penalty, but famiLEE LEEgime is oppressing and want to shut up the anti-DP group. I support them, but I have to make my stands clear, otherwise I will be wrongly view as switching my position one day. In the end some will think that I am opportunistic or I was spy from ISD. That is the price to pay for this kind of compromise.

Not everyone will be willing to pay the kind of price necessary.

When there is a very promising political victory impending, that will be attractive to opposition groups to compromise and come together, but this is actually dangerous & not lasting. It will come apart as easy as it came together. The people will be very soon disappointed. It MAY happen here like it did in Malaysia.

It is alike a big pie will attract many to come forward to work together in order to get hold of it. But after the pie is obtained, they will start to fight among to get a bigger share. In Malaysia there is at least one Mr. Anwar, we don't have 1 here.:(

You are really a tough nut, not giving up your values that easily. So the main issue is, let say SDP is violently against death penalty, while WP is pro-death penalty, so the friction will keep increasing and in the end, an ugly fallout will happen which in turn, benefits the PAP more.

The status quo will be better for all Opposition, I suppose?

 

[uncleyap]

Good insights from the inside by UY.

With so much ego and such a small slice of the pie to fight for, I doubt the Opposition will ever unite.

There is a few magic factors, any one of it or any combination of it will overcome the situation:

1. The pie seems to be much bigger then usual and seems easier to get than before. e.g. something 10X worst than NKF & MSK happened

2. There is strong leader well respected by all sides. Charismatic enough to bring factions to come together like Mr. Anwar.

3. Compelled and forced to cooperate due to arising crucial issue or crucial situation, e.g. national emergency. e.g. something worst than SARS.

4. Singaporean people strongly demanded and called the opposition to be united. E.g. popular petition campaign. Heart touching acts took place.

5. Inspired strongly by development of events in other countries, e.g. Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand etc such Anwar formed govt. Or the total opposite that a coalition fell apart totally and everything fucked up, that serious consequence educated Singaporean opposition.

What would be a combination of above?

e.g. old dog thief LKy got a stroke and became like KGC, and PAp fell apart in to different factions, Ass Loong Son fail to gel LEEgime together. The national crisis will waken Singaporean people and opposition, the circumstance will force opposition to cooperate with even some of the PAp factions to form coalition govt.

:p

What other possibilities?

e.g. GCT felt like becoming Anwar, and renegaded famiLEE LEEgime, pulled a bunch of followers out to form new party and start $Lui-for-Mah-See.



e.g Some other shit spilled inside LEEgime, few more Tan Kim Lian renegaded and exposed more darker secrets, opposition moved forward to link arm with them.



e.g. North Korean dictatorship mati, and fell apart like shit, the South Korean moved in to take over totally. Because there is no opposition party and no alternate political strength in the north beside a one party totalitarian, the old foe half brother dominated politics totally. A slightly different version happened before in Germany. Singaporean realized from there that one party / one famiLEE dominance is totally unacceptable risk from there and moved to combine alternative political strength.



What examples in history is useful to educate Singaporeans in this aspect?

西安事变 of China.

http://www.google.com.sg/#hl=en&sou...=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=363e1e239812428c

Basically the waring factions of MaoZeDong & JiangJieShi were FORCED by rebel warlord to come into term of peace treaty and join hands to fight Japs invaders.

KMT chief JiangJieShi was captured alive and taken hostage by 张学良one of his subordinate division commanders, demanding him to stop civil war with communist Mao and join hands with Mao to fight invading Japs together.

So what for Singapore?

May be - just may be UncleYap will grab the whole lot of CSJ + LTK + CST + GMS + KJ + PKMS etc, and threaten them to sign coalition declaration, and face LEEgime together as one. And they don't comply I will expose lots of dirty secret that I know, all on the fucking Internet. :p

Would that be scary enough to compel them all?:p:p

Just kidding lah.



BTW that was how FBI Hoover worked to control Washington.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Edgar_Hoover

Hoover knows dirty secrets of most politicians from president to congressmen he managed to blackmail them all and got their compliance for the longest record time.

 

[uncleyap]

You are really a tough nut, not giving up your values that easily. So the main issue is, let say SDP is violently against death penalty, while WP is pro-death penalty, so the friction will keep increasing and in the end, an ugly fallout will happen which in turn, benefits the PAP more.

The status quo will be better for all Opposition, I suppose?

I already said before on this forum that there is room for SG oppositions to get Flexible and Limited Co-operations, which in fact is happening all the time. The key to this is to exclude any mutually conflicting issues and temporarily look away from these contentions and focus on mutually benefiting common grounds, that can be found in e.g. avoiding 3 corner in GE.

On conflicting issues, the key is to have the famiLEE LEEgime set in the center as common target and both fire from each opposing side to see that the fire land only on the famiLEE LEEgime instead of each other. That will work perfectly.

I oppose the abuse of Mandatory DP on tiny amount of drugs, I opposed total abolition of DP also, I slammed famiLEE LEEgime for cowing down by foreign govt to let foreigner prisoners off the DP that they had betrayed Singapore's sovereignty to compromised our justice under pressure of foreign govt. I let M Ravi to campaign Malaysian govt to request pardon from Nathan and have no objection. This will put famiLEE LEEgime nicely in a perfect position where they belong, to be whacked from all sides. No escape.

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It had been a shameful mistake that German Chancellor could pressurized famiLEE LEEgime, and then after that, the German woman facing Mandatory Death Penalty can get away after a SECOND LAB TEST reduced her amount of drugs to fall below DP limits. Therefore giving rise to the issue of weather lab test result is a scientific measurement or political / diplomatic calculation?! Very SERIOUS! The proper way would be the CSI lab be remained respectably consistent as well as the court of law. And the president upon request of foreign ambassador consider to grant a clemency, as a diplomatic favor. In that way the Germans will owe our country one such diplomatic favor to grant SG citizen a clemency when our president or ambassador make the same request. That is the proper and respectable way, which famiLEE LEEgime don't seem to fucking know.


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[breakingfree]

Wah lau eh...Singapore oppositions really cannot make it. The coming election will be their best chance and yet they still cant unite together for a common cause: to speak for the people.

If the opposition leaders cant even set aside their difference, their ego for the sake of the people, do they think the people will have confidence in their ability to lead the people, speak for the people, think for the people??

Even primary school science student also noe the weak animals band together to have better survival rate. U dont hunt the lion alone. Even if the lion is old, he still can take u down easily, it just take more time.

btw my humble opinion: The current Pay and Pay might be a bit rubbish now, but the singapore oppositions are even more rubbish. Unless they show some spine to unite and prove to the people they can work together, there might still have some hope.

 

[manokie]

There are very few Lawyers in opposition

Because of that, they are quite toothless

 

[Alamaking]

Sorry hor, but I feel SG oppositions have no substances, anybody also can join, the memory of Lim How Dong irks me to the core.

I've said before, If WCY can enter politics, there will be hope for Singaporeans, he's the only candidate that can challenge the Gov. But he won't lah, I wouldn't also, lol

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

Sorry hor, but I feel SG oppositions have no substances, anybody also can join, the memory of Lim How Dong irks me to the core.

I've said before, If WCY can enter politics, there will be hope for Singaporeans, he's the only candidate that can challenge the Gov. But he won't lah, I wouldn't also, lol

Lim How Doong is a lawyer and actually quite good in parliament. He gave the PAPies hell. His one msitake which was blown out of proportion was for telling LHL not to talk cock which he was. LHL was trying to hoodwink parliament. The 154th then went into overdrive to stain LHD.

WIth respect to the PAP MPs, we have even bigger idiots there with Lim Swee Say, Vivian, Mah Bow Tan, Ng Eng Hen, Lui Tuck Yew and the list goes on. These are a bunch of idiots who spew half truths and make ambiguous promises and tell half lies most of the time. With a proper media, these people will have been skinned alive and be shown to all how hollow their thoughts are.

Don't blame a few APs and then call the APs poor. Just look at what the PAPies have to offer too. Only then you should make your contribution.