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Most successful Chinese? Cantonese, Hakka, Teochew, Hokkien, Wu??

Mercury

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#1
I'm not just talking about Singapore, but from China aswell.

In my opinion if we are talking about famous people than it's more to Hakka, if it's about Culture and linguistic than it's more to Cantonese. Other people like Teochew and Hokkien have their own achievements aswell, but they lack the the number of achievements Hakka but at the ssame time they also lack the culture and linguistic Cantonese have (example: movies, songs, dramas, official status ect). Although Cantonese have many famous people themselves, but not as much as Hakka, while Hakka like other Chinese, lack the cultural and linguistic influence that Cantonese have. The Wu speakers, they are quite rich, and have many famous people. Although they too lack many things other Chinese have.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantonese_people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakka_people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teochew_people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoklo_people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu-speaking_peoples
 

Mercury

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#2
Why no response for such an decent thread? Is it because the question is insignificant or is it because comparing Chinese dialect groups is seen as childish?

How about Hong Kong people vs Singaporeans vs Taiwanese, Mainland Chinese?
 

brocoli

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#5
Why no response for such an decent thread? Is it because the question is insignificant or is it because comparing Chinese dialect groups is seen as childish?

How about Hong Kong people vs Singaporeans vs Taiwanese, Mainland Chinese?

"Look at the number of smart Teochews there are...just count them. Teo Chee Hean, Lim Hng Kiang, George Yeo, Lim Boon Heng. Is it a coincidence? In a Cabinet of 15, how do you explain that? For that matter, the Hakkas consider themselves very special too. They are tough, resourceful, they were latecomers who got squeezed to the mountainous areas of the south when they came from the north. They were the only Chinese group that did not bind their women's feet, because they lived on hilly terrain, had to make a living and couldn't afford to have women with feet bound. You also have more Hakkas in the Cabinet than are represented in the population. They are supposed to be hard-working, tougher and therefore higher-achievers. So there are these differences even within the races.
 

Mercury

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#7
"Look at the number of smart Teochews there are...just count them. Teo Chee Hean, Lim Hng Kiang, George Yeo, Lim Boon Heng. Is it a coincidence? In a Cabinet of 15, how do you explain that? For that matter, the Hakkas consider themselves very special too. They are tough, resourceful, they were latecomers who got squeezed to the mountainous areas of the south when they came from the north. They were the only Chinese group that did not bind their women's feet, because they lived on hilly terrain, had to make a living and couldn't afford to have women with feet bound. You also have more Hakkas in the Cabinet than are represented in the population. They are supposed to be hard-working, tougher and therefore higher-achievers. So there are these differences even within the races.
(In my opinion the most Successful Chinese are the Mandarin speakers, Hakka, Cantonese. Success is not only the number of smart people. It includes cultural recognition, international fame, official status. Hoklo, Teochew, Wu people lack many things in many ways.

What makes people superior includes

1. Significant figures in world history
2. Positive impact to the world
3. Cultural and linguistic impact to the world


I'll talk about the good points and bad points of all Chinese sub-groups.

Mandarin speakers ( of northern China/ Central China today) were the creaters of Ancient Han Chinese civilization and empires. Ancient Chinese history were mostly shaped by northern/Central Chinese. And have an large cultural influence in the world, including linguistic influence. However it's impact to the modern world is considered very NEGATIVE by non-Chinese. Mainly because of China today is an communist nation, which are an threat to the moral and society of humanity. China is today one of the world most hated nation, because of it's endless fake products, Fake food, low autonomy, no human rights, no freedom of speech. The cultural revolution which 70 million Chinese died under Mao zedong rule. and the beijing massacre in 1989 and the millions of innocent are known throughout the world, giving China and Chinese an horribly negative impact to the world.

Hakka played most of the major roles in shaping modern Chinese history. Including many other countries in southeast asia where many Hakka have also ccontributed significantly. However Unlike Mandarin and Cantonese who both have international recognition, the Hakka's people cultural and linguistic impact is not known in the world and it's impact is almost non-existant. Aswell as their identity, the word Hakka is almost non-existent in the Non-Chinese speaking society. Hakka has no official status anywhere and have an lack of identity impact to the world Hakka does not have it's own entertainment media, movies, songs, dramas like Mandarin and Cantonese have. When people speak of Chinese, they either have heard of Mandarin or Cantonese.

Cantonese today have many international world famous people although most of them are overseas Chinese, including an significant cultural and linguistic recognition in the world. Although Cantonese is second to Mandarin in terms of being world known, it has international recon-ignition in the world. But this this is due to the fact Hong Kong and Macau that are both Cantonese speaking society. And because of them Cantonese movies and cuisines which can be found throughout the world. Cantonese have official status in Hong Kong and Macau, both which are culturally and linguistically Cantonese. It also has it's own education school, government, written Cantonese, songs movies, dramas, animation dubbed in Cantonese. Within China it is the only 2 area that people live with autonomy, freedom of speech, human rights. They are also 2 of the richest and highest GDP city in China, both are also ranked a global city. Cantonese in a way also played some roles in shaping modern history of China, in terms of geographic location. Almost all the Chinese leaders that shaped modern China was born in Guangdong province, and it was also the funding and uprising of Xinhui revolution that started in Guangzhou. However most of these Chinese figures were not Cantonese, but were Hakka including other Chinese ( Although it's also believed Sun yat sen have Cantonese ancestry, and spoke with an river delta Cantonese accent, his family also considered themselves Cantonese). HOWEVER, it's cultural and linguistic impact is not only weaker than mandarin, but it's considered less important aswell, despite the fact Cantonese may have an more positive impact on Chinese people to the world due to Hong Kong, it's generally not strong enough compared with mandarin.

OTHER CHINESE SUB-GROUPS like Teochew, Hoklo, Wu. They may have significant impact in southeast asian history, and may have some impact in modern China. But like most Chinese they lack the official status and cultural impact. Hoklo lost to mandarin in Singapore and Taiwan. And many rich Chinese are teochew but the same thing again. Lack of identity, cultural, linguistic impact. Teochew is non-existant in the world, apart from Chinese migrants, or places where they were considered top society.

In the Wu speaking area, Hangzhou was historically considered the most noble city in the entire world by marco polo. And Shanghai is today an very rich area of China. However, not only are they completely overshadowed by Mandarin, it's an area without autonomy or freedom. And it's cultural and linguistic influence is non-existent outside of China. They also many famous people, but not as great when compared to other Chinese.
 

brocoli

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#8
(In my opinion the most Successful Chinese are the Mandarin speakers, Hakka, Cantonese. Success is not only the number of smart people. It includes cultural recognition, international fame, official status. Hoklo, Teochew, Wu people lack many things in many ways.

What makes people superior includes

1. Significant figures in world history
2. Positive impact to the world
3. Cultural and linguistic impact to the world


I'll talk about the good points and bad points of all Chinese sub-groups.

Mandarin speakers ( of northern China/ Central China today) were the creaters of Ancient Han Chinese civilization and empires. Ancient Chinese history were mostly shaped by northern/Central Chinese. And have an large cultural influence in the world, including linguistic influence. However it's impact to the modern world is considered very NEGATIVE by non-Chinese. Mainly because of China today is an communist nation, which are an threat to the moral and society of humanity. China is today one of the world most hated nation, because of it's endless fake products, Fake food, low autonomy, no human rights, no freedom of speech. The cultural revolution which 70 million Chinese died under Mao zedong rule. and the beijing massacre in 1989 and the millions of innocent are known throughout the world, giving China and Chinese an horribly negative impact to the world.

Hakka played most of the major roles in shaping modern Chinese history. Including many other countries in southeast asia where many Hakka have also ccontributed significantly. However Unlike Mandarin and Cantonese who both have international recognition, the Hakka's people cultural and linguistic impact is not known in the world and it's impact is almost non-existant. Aswell as their identity, the word Hakka is almost non-existent in the Non-Chinese speaking society. Hakka has no official status anywhere and have an lack of identity impact to the world Hakka does not have it's own entertainment media, movies, songs, dramas like Mandarin and Cantonese have. When people speak of Chinese, they either have heard of Mandarin or Cantonese.

Cantonese today have many international world famous people although most of them are overseas Chinese, including an significant cultural and linguistic recognition in the world. Although Cantonese is second to Mandarin in terms of being world known, it has international recon-ignition in the world. But this this is due to the fact Hong Kong and Macau that are both Cantonese speaking society. And because of them Cantonese movies and cuisines which can be found throughout the world. Cantonese have official status in Hong Kong and Macau, both which are culturally and linguistically Cantonese. It also has it's own education school, government, written Cantonese, songs movies, dramas, animation dubbed in Cantonese. Within China it is the only 2 area that people live with autonomy, freedom of speech, human rights. They are also 2 of the richest and highest GDP city in China, both are also ranked a global city. Cantonese in a way also played some roles in shaping modern history of China, in terms of geographic location. Almost all the Chinese leaders that shaped modern China was born in Guangdong province, and it was also the funding and uprising of Xinhui revolution that started in Guangzhou. However most of these Chinese figures were not Cantonese, but were Hakka including other Chinese ( Although it's also believed Sun yat sen have Cantonese ancestry, and spoke with an river delta Cantonese accent, his family also considered themselves Cantonese). HOWEVER, it's cultural and linguistic impact is not only weaker than mandarin, but it's considered less important aswell, despite the fact Cantonese may have an more positive impact on Chinese people to the world due to Hong Kong, it's generally not strong enough compared with mandarin.

OTHER CHINESE SUB-GROUPS like Teochew, Hoklo, Wu. They may have significant impact in southeast asian history, and may have some impact in modern China. But like most Chinese they lack the official status and cultural impact. Hoklo lost to mandarin in Singapore and Taiwan. And many rich Chinese are teochew but the same thing again. Lack of identity, cultural, linguistic impact. Teochew is non-existant in the world, apart from Chinese migrants, or places where they were considered top society.

In the Wu speaking area, Hangzhou was historically considered the most noble city in the entire world by marco polo. And Shanghai is today an very rich area of China. However, not only are they completely overshadowed by Mandarin, it's an area without autonomy or freedom. And it's cultural and linguistic influence is non-existent outside of China. They also many famous people, but not as great when compared to other Chinese.
absolute rubbish... teochews are known as Jews of China../.

lee Kah Shing is Teochew... if you look at the forbes ranking for chinese, you will realise Teochew punch way above their weights.....
 

Mercury

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Loyal
#9
absolute rubbish... teochews are known as Jews of China../.

lee Kah Shing is Teochew... if you look at the forbes ranking for chinese, you will realise Teochew punch way above their weights.....
I already said. Being successful isn't just about the number of significant Chinese figures or the numbers of intelligent people you can produce. If you don't have at least some international recognition on the world that contributes YOUR IDENDITY, YOUR CULTURE, YOUR LANGUAGE. When you tell people you're an teochew nobody knows what that is, and when you speak the teochew languange nobody has ever heard it before. This is because teochew dialect has no influence, no official status anywhere, no independent writing vernacular, no music, no movies, no tv dramas of it's own. Like I said before the teochew language, culture, identity is non-existant in the modern world apart from other Han Chinese groups. The same goes for the Wu people, Hakka, Hoklo. Their idendity have no international recon-ignition inanywhere in the non-Chinese world. Unlike Cantonese and Mandarin, they have their Cinema movies, top quality MTV, writing vernacular, education, official status. Their names have been spread throughout the world.

For example: The Japanese have many successful people, but at the same time, they made their identity known world wide around the globe. But people like Japanese aren't just successful in terms of peoples, even their language, culture, movies, music aswell that are now spread around the world. They have lots of influence to the world today, animation, video games, Jpop, toyota. Aside from that, they have an huge positive impact in the world today, and this is what make them the most succesful people in Asia today, because they have all the qualities that other nations don't have. And many people are learning the Japanese language. Koreans, they may not have that many succesful people in history. But their Dramas, Kpop music makes up for it, and today they have fans from europe, latin america, to middle east and all of east asia and southeast asia. There doing an good job themselves. China would have been perfect if it weren't for their horrible negative impact on the world today.
 

Mercury

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#10
In my opinion, Singapore is only successful in economy. Other than that, it isn't really much of anything else.
 
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M

mulberry

Guest
#11
Mandarin speakers ( of northern China/ Central China today) were the creaters of Ancient Han Chinese civilization and empires. Ancient Chinese history were mostly shaped by northern/Central Chinese. And have an large cultural influence in the world, including linguistic influence. However it's impact to the modern world is considered very NEGATIVE by non-Chinese. Mainly because of China today is an communist nation, which are an threat to the moral and society of humanity. China is today one of the world most hated nation, because of it's endless fake products, Fake food, low autonomy, no human rights, no freedom of speech. The cultural revolution which 70 million Chinese died under Mao zedong rule. and the beijing massacre in 1989 and the millions of innocent are known throughout the world, giving China and Chinese an horribly negative impact to the world.

I don't think you can really say that Mandarin speakers is a group of Chinese in itself. I can hear the boos coming my way, but let me explain. Mandarin has official status as the standard dialect to be spoken in China. That means all Chinese from all groups should speak this language. If you define Mandarin as a people, then what is it's culture? WHAT IS MANDARIN CULTURE? Can you single out something that is used by "Mandarins" and not other Chinese? There is Mandarin as a language, but not necessarily a Mandarin culture, unless it belongs to the all-encompassing description as "Chinese culture" which includes all regional Chinese culture. Chinese civilization may have started in the Central Plains, but Mandarin was not spoken during those times. Mandarin language is modern Chinese which has been influenced by the Northern barbarians. Chinese culture is best exemplify by southern Chinese culture because the Han Chinese all fled south to escape the barbarians. They can't flee north because that is where the barbarians are, so they had to flee south. They met southern barbarians, but those were the ones they could defeat. The Yue-speakers, Min-Nan-speakers and Hakka-speakers group have their own distinct culture that one can point out and that distinguish them from other groups and from the main "Mandarin" group. I put my money on the Yue-speakers and the Hakka-speakers. The Yue-speakers were the first to migrate to America and built the railroads. Although they were treated bad, they opened the door to the West on Chinese culture and ease the migration of other Chinese groups in the future. They were pioneers and faced many discrimination. The Hakka were a tough people who travel the world just the Yue-speakers and built a life as well. Although not as successful as the Yue-speakers, they nonetheless contribute to Chinese identity at home and abroad.
 

Ramseth

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Asset
#14
all chinese are the same..they eat everything, they gamble, they womanise...its chinese!
In Singapore, Hokkien and Cantonese are the most notorious gamblers. Most of those arrested to lockups under illegal gambling in public or common gaming house have been either Hokkien or Cantonese, followed by a few Teochew and Hainanese. Hakka, I've never heard before. In Chinese gaming terms, there're only two "official" languages, Hokkien and Cantonese. Even if you're not Hokkien or Cantonese, you need to know at least one these to understand the game and gamble.
 

TwitSeng

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#15
Mandarin speakers ( of northern China/ Central China today) were the creaters of Ancient Han Chinese civilization and empires. Ancient Chinese history were mostly shaped by northern/Central Chinese. And have an large cultural influence in the world, including linguistic influence. However it's impact to the modern world is considered very NEGATIVE by non-Chinese. Mainly because of China today is an communist nation, which are an threat to the moral and society of humanity. China is today one of the world most hated nation, because of it's endless fake products, Fake food, low autonomy, no human rights, no freedom of speech. The cultural revolution which 70 million Chinese died under Mao zedong rule. and the beijing massacre in 1989 and the millions of innocent are known throughout the world, giving China and Chinese an horribly negative impact to the world.
There is no language called Mandarin in ancient China. The language spoken in ancient China is totally different from today's Mandarin, and it is also very different from all the Southern China dialects being spoken as well, with perhaps bits and pieces of tiny traces only. Besides, over thousands of years of history, people all around China have been moving northwards and southwards. Not too sure about moving northwards, but there were bigger migrations from north to south. Like for instance, when Northern Song dynasty collapsed etc.

Mandarin only started to developed mainly during Yuan/Ming Dynasty, if I am not wrong.

So, by stating that Mandarin speakers were the creators of the civilizations and culture, that I cannot agree.

The current northern/central Chinese today are perhaps not the same ones in the ancient times. Like I said, migration northwards and southwards happened throughout their history.
 
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Ramseth

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#16
Mandarin only started to developed mainly during Yuan/Ming Dynasty, if I am not wrong.

So, by stating that Mandarin speakers were the creators of the civilizations and culture, that I cannot agree.
You shouldn't agree as you're not wrong. China and Chineseness have been kept united by a common script, not a common tongue.
 
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#18
There is no language called Mandarin in ancient China.
The borders of the political entity called China in history also varied depending on the times.

Re: language. I don't think there was ever one culturally-united China with everyone in it speaking the same language and practising the same customs, lifestyles, dressing, etc.
 
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TwitSeng

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#19
The borders of the political entity called China in history also varied depending on the times.

Re: language. I don't think there was ever one culturally-united China with everyone in it speaking the same language and practising the same customs, lifestyles, dressing, etc.
You are right about it. There is no culturally-united China in the first place, since ancient times.

Are we going off-topic?
 
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