Minimum wage: The real work of an opposition

[Subok]

However the key problem with minimum wage is why pay more when can pay less? The danger then could be just as catastrophic when employers stuck to $5/hr with no regards to the real dollar value could be more for the labour provided.

 

[aurvandil]

This basically sums up everything. Clamouring for minimum wage for workers
But in the end want own family to help out because having own family members don't need to have a minimum wage.

You seem to be failing maths again. If the little chicken rice stall couldn't generare enough revenue to pay the worker a minimum wage, then how to pay the aged mother a minimum wage?

If the stall could generate sufficent revenue to pay the minimum wage, then everyone will be full of praise is Goodwolf gives the mother $2800 per month while retaining a small $1,000 for his personal use. Might be better too since that will leave him with much less money to gamble away at the casinos.

You just need to count, if you employ a stall assistant for $2800, how many plates of chicken rice at $2.50 you need to sell per day and if there are that many customers who can help your business turnover hit a green figure instead of red.

I remember you starting a food business and then the business collapsing after a while. Many sucessful hawkers earn supernormal profits. They are able to do this because their food tastes better than the competition. They usually charge similar prices as their competitors and have a long queue of customers. Maybe instead of relying on exploitation of foreigners, you should think of how to cook a better, tastier chicken rice.

Hawker tycoons? Oh please give me a few examples of which stall in Singapore is owned by hawker tycoon and how much their turnover. Do not be mistaken with franchising and sole proprietorship owned. You see a lot of Hup Lee Nasi Lemak stalls all over Singapore doesn't mean all from 1 single boss.

It doesn't really matter whether it is privately own chained or it is a franchise. The fact of the matter is that stalls manned by FT are slowly but surely crowding out the traditional mom-pop stalls. 5 years ago, you can hardly observe such stalls. These days they are everywhere thanks to MOM's FT policy.

As in all things, this policy only serves to feed the Opposition's cause. Unlike the casino issue, this issue is ripe. It will be one of the defining issues of the coming elections. It is now so late in the game that nothing can be done to change it. Poll after poll show just how unhappy Singaporeans are. The numerous attempts to put a positive spin on the FT issue have backfired badly and served only to inflame the issue.

I strongly suspect that there will a radical overhaul of the FT policy after the elections so the hawker tycoons or hawker franchieses relying on exploiting foreigners should prepare to change their business model or go out of business. The PAP is not so stupid as to go into the 2017 elections with the current vote losing FT policy.

 

[aurvandil]

Goodwolf (Dumbwolf actually) should have gone to find a job paying $2,000-$2,500 a month including overtime. Construction site or these places will still pay this kind of money to locals because they need the quota. Hard work, many hours but the money is there.

I have some doubts about whether the pay is so attractive. Assuming that it is, maybe you should propose to Minister Gan that he should give a speech. In that speech, he can scold Singaporeans for how stupid and lazy they are for not taking up jobs in the lucrative construction industy. Instead, they are always whining and complaining about his FT policy robbing them of jobs and other opportunities. I am sure this will be a vote winner and give him a landslide 80% victory in his GRC.

 

[CCBcsj]

I have some doubts about whether the pay is so attractive. Assuming that it is, maybe you should propose to Minister Gan that he should give a speech. In that speech, he can scold Singaporeans for how stupid and lazy they are for not taking up jobs in the lucrative construction industy. Instead, they are always whining and complaining about his FT policy robbing them of jobs and other opportunities. I am sure this will be a vote winner and give him a landslide 80% victory in his GRC.

To make $2,500, dumbwolf would have to put as many hours as he did into the chicken rice stall. Alas, most contractors will tell you few Singaporeans are prepared to do that kind of heavy manual work for long hours despite the attractive overtime.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Arvundial

I believe you are both right and wrong on several counts. And god knows I am speaking from the heart as a chicken rice fanatic. Firstly, the food court operators and some hawker stalls are being supported by Chicken Rice factories who supply the Chicken and yes the Chilli Sauce at a set price. Its like MAC they take care of the burgers , you find the space, hire the cheap labor and go do a business. Its mass produced chicken and chilli sauce at its absolute worst providing an average chicken an average rice at a mass costs.

So how is MOM and Pop suppose to compete ? Simply put ur Chicken rice has to be above average or better than the average, or offer something more than chicken rice alone and if you expand you had better be able to maintain quality. Case in point Tian Tian at maxwell, the Swee Kee's the Nam Kee's etc etc will always have business and their loyal clients because of quality quality quality.

Locke

 

[Ramseth]

Dear Arvundial

I believe you are both right and wrong on several counts. And god knows I am speaking from the heart as a chicken rice fanatic. Firstly, the food court operators and some hawker stalls are being supported by Chicken Rice factories who supply the Chicken and yes the Chilli Sauce at a set price. Its like MAC they take care of the burgers , you find the space, hire the cheap labor and go do a business. Its mass produced chicken and chilli sauce at its absolute worst providing an average chicken an average rice at a mass costs.

So how is MOM and Pop suppose to compete ? Simply put ur Chicken rice has to be above average or better than the average, or offer something more than chicken rice alone and if you expand you had better be able to maintain quality. Case in point Tian Tian at maxwell, the Swee Kee's the Nam Kee's etc etc will always have business and their loyal clients because of quality quality quality.

Locke

You're speaking as a chicken "rise" fanatic of Geylang imported PRC farm bred chicken. Simply put to you, they're mass produced quality for you. And you won't be bothered with prices or whatever minumum wages because you can afford to, and do say keep the change anyway, and usually tip somemore if your "rise" is to your satisfaction.

 

[aurvandil]

I believe you are both right and wrong on several counts. And god knows I am speaking from the heart as a chicken rice fanatic. Firstly, the food court operators and some hawker stalls are being supported by Chicken Rice factories who supply the Chicken and yes the Chilli Sauce at a set price. Its like MAC they take care of the burgers , you find the space, hire the cheap labor and go do a business. Its mass produced chicken and chilli sauce at its absolute worst providing an average chicken an average rice at a mass costs.

As a chicken rice fanatic, you should be ashamed at yourself at eating at those stalls. I avoid those stalls like the plague. The best hawker food is still those produced by the mom and pop operators. You should also avoid those stalls who have been taken over by ambitious sons and daughters who want to make "big money" by upgrading mom and dad's operations. The taste usually collapses while the price sky rockets.

 

[jw5]

As a chicken rice fanatic, you should be ashamed at yourself at eating at those stalls. I avoid those stalls like the plague. The best hawker food is still those produced by the mom and pop operators. You should also avoid those stalls who have been taken over by ambitious sons and daughters who want to make "big money" by upgrading mom and dad's operations. The taste usually collapses while the price sky rockets.

I don't know Locke and his chicken rice habits, but from his post, I'm pretty confident that he eats at the mom and pop operators.
All of us actually agree that mom and pop operators are still the best.

But not all sons and daughters who take over their parent's stall are ambitious and lose quality while expanding their outlets.
There is a very nice young couple who run a fish soup stall at market street food centre. I think they took over from their father/father-in-law. The price is not especially cheap but it's reasonable and the quality is fantastic. I have seen many ang mos wearing tie and suit eating fish soup there, which is probably evidence of the quality.

 

[Ramseth]

I avoid those stalls like the plague. The best hawker food is still those produced by the mom and pop operators. You should also avoid those stalls who have been taken over by ambitious sons and daughters who want to make "big money" by upgrading mom and dad's operations. The taste usually collapses while the price sky rockets.

Locke Lib at an expensive air-con art-decor restaurant...

Waiter : Here's the menu, sir.

Locke : I come here to eat, not to read! :oIo:
Waiter : Sorry sir, then may I take order now?

Locke : Get me a seafood steamboat for two, one whole white-chopped chicken with chicken rice for two, and a steamed crab too.

Waiter : Sir, would you like to go the tank to select your crab, then we can weigh for the price.

Locke : Are you a retard or something? Did I ask for the price? Just get me the biggest one. :oIo:
Waiter : Sorry sir, anything else, sir?

Locke : Get a bottle of Carlsberg for me and a glass of fruit juice for my lady friend here. That'd be all for now.

Waiter : Yes sir, I'll see to that, sir.

Lady Friend : Locke, you're so steady and impressive. (Lady friend muaks Locke.)

 

[aurvandil]

All of us actually agree that mom and pop operators are still the best.

THe following are Aurvandil's 5 rules to find good hawker food. It is not 100% but you will get good hits at least 9 out of 10 times.

1) Look at the signboard. It should look as if it is from the 1970s to the early 1908s.

2) Observe the hawkers. They should be in their 40s, preferably in their 50s.

3) Observe the queue. There should be a steady stream of customers and a decent wait of at least 10 mins.

4) Avoid stalls manned and run by a team of exploted FT workers. This is especially if they are wearing cheap T-shirts as a uniform.

5) Avoid stalls run by youngsters (20s to 30s) who claim good hawker pedigree, numerous culinary awards etc. They exaggerate on their resume. They exaggerate here too.

 

[silverfox@]

You seem to be failing maths again. If the little chicken rice stall couldn't generare enough revenue to pay the worker a minimum wage, then how to pay the aged mother a minimum wage?

You are pathetic, now using aged mother as free labour.

If the stall could generate sufficent revenue to pay the minimum wage, then everyone will be full of praise is Goodwolf gives the mother $2800 per month while retaining a small $1,000 for his personal use. Might be better too since that will leave him with much less money to gamble away at the casinos.

You are already thinking of making use of your old folks because they are even cheaper labour than Foreign workers. Even if you make $5000, you would not even give your old mother $2800

I remember you starting a food business and then the business collapsing after a while. Many sucessful hawkers earn supernormal profits. They are able to do this because their food tastes better than the competition. They usually charge similar prices as their competitors and have a long queue of customers. Maybe instead of relying on exploitation of foreigners, you should think of how to cook a better, tastier chicken rice.

I have a hard time hiring locals. Locals are not willing to take the hardship in food business and they tell you 1 thing, if I have to work so hard and be a assistant, I might as well be a hawker myself.

Even now, most locals do not want to be in food business because its hard work and dirty.

It doesn't really matter whether it is privately own chained or it is a franchise. The fact of the matter is that stalls manned by FT are slowly but surely crowding out the traditional mom-pop stalls. 5 years ago, you can hardly observe such stalls. These days they are everywhere thanks to MOM's FT policy.

Chang Chen Economical rice, 70 over branches all over Singapore. Do you know how much they pay their supervisors and assistants? You will be shocked they are paying so well. And many are Malaysians because no Locals want to take up the jobs.

Next thing I want to mention is what is the price of a plate of rice from a mom/pop operation vs chang chen operation.
The price is cheaper offered by Chang Chen and more ingredients.

Why? Because mom/pop operation only order stock for 1 stall, their very own stall. Chang Chen order in bulk for all their 70 over stalls all over Singapore. A very classic example is the hawker centre in Eunos market, mom/pop stall vs nearby within 300 metres economical rice stall. Hawker stall rental is cheaper, but they sell extra 50cts more than what big economical rice stalls offer.

As in all things, this policy only serves to feed the Opposition's cause. Unlike the casino issue, this issue is ripe. It will be one of the defining issues of the coming elections. It is now so late in the game that nothing can be done to change it. Poll after poll show just how unhappy Singaporeans are. The numerous attempts to put a positive spin on the FT issue have backfired badly and served only to inflame the issue.

I strongly suspect that there will a radical overhaul of the FT policy after the elections so the hawker tycoons or hawker franchieses relying on exploiting foreigners should prepare to change their business model or go out of business. The PAP is not so stupid as to go into the 2017 elections with the current vote losing FT policy.

If you are prepared to use your aged mother for free or even not paying her min wage, you are just slapping yourself trying to clamour for a min wage for workers.

 

[silverfox@]

THe following are Aurvandil's 5 rules to find good hawker food. It is not 100% but you will get good hits at least 9 out of 10 times.

1) Look at the signboard. It should look as if it is from the 1970s to the early 1908s.

2) Observe the hawkers. They should be in their 40s, preferably in their 50s.

3) Observe the queue. There should be a steady stream of customers and a decent wait of at least 10 mins.

4) Avoid stalls manned and run by a team of exploted FT workers. This is especially if they are wearing cheap T-shirts as a uniform.

5) Avoid stalls run by youngsters (20s to 30s) who claim good hawker pedigree, numerous culinary awards etc. They exaggerate on their resume. They exaggerate here too.

1) 40years signboard will also change new one lar. 20year old become hawker, 60years still using old signboard.

2) Another 10 years time, you still expect these hawkers to be working right into 70s?

3) Lavender Eminent Sq famous Wanton Mee you see that old couple still selling their wanton mee. I am not envious of them, in fact I pity them to still be working so hard at their age.

4) Don't be foolish. In today's society, stall helpers are paid more than household maids. If you think stall workers are exploited, you should go and see how much household maids are paid. Of course then you will say household maids are not exploited. The other time in another thread I also asked the same question but no one replied me. How come no locals want to be a household maid?

5) In 10-20 years time, all the old hawkers retire, only left the new blood to take over. So you can steer off hawker food entirely and stay at home.

 

[aurvandil]

I have a hard time hiring locals. Locals are not willing to take the hardship in food business and they tell you 1 thing, if I have to work so hard and be a assistant, I might as well be a hawker myself.

Even now, most locals do not want to be in food business because its hard work and dirty.

Translation: You tried to start a small food business. It failed because the food was not particularly good and you didn’t have many customers.

Instead of blaming yourself, you blame the whole world. You blame Singaporeans for refusing to be exploited by you. You feel Singaporeans are not trustworthy. Once they have worked for you after a while, they have ideas of taking what they have learnt and starting up their own business. (Who said Singaporeans are not enterprising ?!)

You tried to apply to MOM for EP/SP/WP. Unfortunately your smart idea to “con” MOM had been done over by ten thousand other “smart” wannabe hawker tycoons. MOM therefore rejected your application.

 

[jixiaolan]

I'm wondering if FTs taking away jobs have been grossly over-exaggerated. Before Singapore imported FTs, we had 3 million and 3% unemployment. Given that another 2 million have joined Singapore (40% increase) unemployment is at most 6% to 7% and not like 43%.

Are you naive or what? Jobs dun just drop from the sky.

 

[CCBcsj]

Are you naive or what? Jobs dun just drop from the sky.

You're the one who is naive. All that the MONGREL who bit his masters' hands LOUDHAILER chee soon juan says is not true.

 

[silverfox@]

Translation: You tried to start a small food business. It failed because the food was not particularly good and you didn’t have many customers.

Instead of blaming yourself, you blame the whole world. You blame Singaporeans for refusing to be exploited by you. You feel Singaporeans are not trustworthy. Once they have worked for you after a while, they have ideas of taking what they have learnt and starting up their own business. (Who said Singaporeans are not enterprising ?!)

You tried to apply to MOM for EP/SP/WP. Unfortunately your smart idea to “con” MOM had been done over by ten thousand other “smart” wannabe hawker tycoons. MOM therefore rejected your application.

Don't worry, you can say I exploit workers for their blood and sweat, but at least I would not think of exploiting old folks like you:p

Back to minimum wage, your old mom and pop can be working for you free or even for a paltry sum, since you cannot afford to employ workers.

That is why you prefer to employ own family members instead of workers because family members are lowered paid than paying workers, so what right do you have to ask for a minimum wage for workers when you are not paying the same to your own family members especially your old parents?
Don't be so self righteous to fight for minimum wages for workers when the other hand you are exploiting your own family members

 

[aurvandil]

Don't worry, you can say I exploit workers for their blood and sweat, but at least I would not think of exploiting old folks like you:p

Sorry but I think you misunderstand. No parents/family members work for me. To build staff loyalty, I am a strong believer in paying fair and competitive wages. In runnning a business, you can have no greater enemy than underpaid, disgruntled staff who feel that you are getting rich by exploiting them.