Chitchat Military funerals...

[zhihau]

I think this Gavin Chan's family got brainwashed too much by the PAP. In order to have a military funeral, the family has to agree to it

What was the amount of the insurance payout?

 

[halsey02]

I didn't witness the accident just attended the funeral.

I think he was directing the placement of the guns when it happened. Also heard of cases where the shell fired short.

NS puts one in dangerous situations. Had a classmate who died during BMT. I heard he fell.

Fell short , fell short of target...you still have time to run for the hills...must be directing the howitzer during night training...or got careless dueing the day...

 

[Sideswipe]

thought military funerals are only for soldiers whom died in action for their country in the battlefield, not for training exercises accidents...

 

[halsey02]

thought military funerals are only for soldiers whom died in action for their country in the battlefield, not for training exercises accidents...

That is usually the case, or in the line of duty for their country. You can have an Indian who can change race to be a Malay & become the president...so anything goes. The family must be connected in some way to the government, who go all the way to accord a military funeral for a NS man, who died in a military training accident. Normally...it does not even get a mentioned in the papers, never mind the funeral.

Cannot be of those, Hua Tua Kee son's....

 

[bobby]

That is usually the case, or in the line of duty for their country. You can have an Indian who can change race to be a Malay & become the president...so anything goes. The family must be connected in some way to the government, who go all the way to accord a military funeral for a NS man, who died in a military training accident. Normally...it does not even get a mentioned in the papers, never mind the funeral.

Cannot be of those, Hua Tua Kee son's....

You are spot on.

During my Starlight days...some of us do come back as cargo.

Nothing mentioned too...state secret apparently.

 

[Papsmearer]

What was the amount of the insurance payout?

Not really known, the reason is there is two component to the insurance. One is the soldier can buy life insurance themselves. Offered to all incoming NSmen as private insurance. The other amount is a pay out by the SAF. This is up to their discretion. In the past when I was in the SAF, the SAF payout was a matching amount to the private insurance. In those days, NTUC offered a maximum insurance amount of $80K. If the soldier died and he had a good performance record, the SAF matched another $80K, making total insurance payout of $160k. I would imagine today the payout would be more then 6 figures. So, if Gavin Chan bought insurance and the SAF matched, it could be any amount.

 

[Papsmearer]

That is usually the case, or in the line of duty for their country. You can have an Indian who can change race to be a Malay & become the president...so anything goes. The family must be connected in some way to the government, who go all the way to accord a military funeral for a NS man, who died in a military training accident. Normally...it does not even get a mentioned in the papers, never mind the funeral.

Cannot be of those, Hua Tua Kee son's....

Serving your NS is considered in the line of duty. In other armies, the moment you are in, you are considered a veteran, even though u have not seen life action. If u die in a training accident, u die as a veteran and hence are accorded a military funeral.

 

[Papsmearer]

You are spot on.

During my Starlight days...some of us do come back as cargo.

Nothing mentioned too...state secret apparently.

Yup, the news is suppressed. But Starlight is different. Starlight was ostensibly a secret arrangement with taiwan and therefore, it could not be made public that our soldiers are training there for fear of reprisal from the PRC. But australia is different. Its an open arrangement with them and everyone knows we are there, and not sneaking in like thieves in the middle of the night.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Absolutely right.

Very sad case.

Recall my BSM described to me how he and the CO had to go the home of a dead NS boy to break the sad news to family and how they were literally beaten with a broom by the dead boy's mother and chased away in her hour of grief.

I think this Gavin Chan's family got brainwashed too much by the PAP. In order to have a military funeral, the family has to agree to it. Some families are so pissed off at SAF for the death of their sons, they refuse to let any SAF personnel into their flats or even to have anything to do with them. The chan family is basically allowing the SAF to use this military funeral with its attendant public press, as propaganda. The SAF are trying to play it as a noble death in the service of the country, which is simply bullshit.

 

[halsey02]

Serving your NS is considered in the line of duty. In other armies, the moment you are in, you are considered a veteran, even though u have not seen life action. If u die in a training accident, u die as a veteran and hence are accorded a military funeral.

In that case...for those comrades that had died during training...over the many years, including "starlight"...they should have been accorded the same military funeral of the son of Desmond Chan & Mdm Lim Teck Kheng...going by your argument. But were they?

If you say they should be veterans...does SAF have a military parade each year, honouring the "VETERANS" that had died, serving National Service, for the last 50 years. Bet you, when that one eye, legless or one hand Jason dies...he will be accorded a military funeral....if they can like Fat Boy Kim military parade.

MY POINT IS...you are nobody or connected or rich enough....you die training in NS, you are just another nameless, faceless, lesser mortal......never mind the VETERAN argument.

 

[johnny333]

Fell short , fell short of target...you still have time to run for the hills...must be directing the howitzer during night training...or got careless dueing the day...

Back then arty units were using the 120mm & 155mm rounds.

I only heard of 120mm rounds going short. Maybe the quality control is not so high because the 120 rounds were made locally?

SAf also had more 120mm units & the chances of things going wrong is much higher than with the howitzer units. In those days money must have been a problem. Imagine the cost of a howitzer shell. In those days money must have Been an issue & that is why they bought so many 2nd hand equipment.

 

[Papsmearer]

Absolutely right.

Very sad case.

Recall my BSM described to me how he and the CO had to go the home of a dead NS boy to break the sad news to family and how they were literally beaten with a broom by the dead boy's mother and chased away in her hour of grief.

Bro, I have made that walk myself. Its the worse job you can do as an officer. Sometimes, 2 SAF personnel going to the house is not enough. I rather come under enemy attack then have to inform another parent their son passed away. In some ways, times have changed. That was the old days. Now, with handphones allowed in the camps, the dead kid's buddies would already have twittered, FB, or text the news to the outside long before the officers show up at the flat. Its still unpleasant business. Even on welfare visits to the soldier's home, those that were perm staff overseas, you are already greeted with some level of hostility from some homes.

 

[Papsmearer]

Back then arty units were using the 120mm & 155mm rounds.

I only heard of 120mm rounds going short. Maybe the quality control is not so high because the 120 rounds were made locally?

SAf also had more 120mm units & the chances of things going wrong is much higher than with the howitzer units. In those days money must have been a problem. Imagine the cost of a howitzer shell. In those days money must have Been an issue & that is why they bought so many 2nd hand equipment.

I am not aware we had 120mm arty pieces. As far as I know, we have 120mm Mortars either Tampella or Soltam. They used to mount them on tracked vehicles like the M113. I recall years ago, a very nasty incident where the 120mm propellant blew up inside a M113, killing the whole crew and melting down the vehicle.

 

[Papsmearer]

In that case...for those comrades that had died during training...over the many years, including "starlight"...they should have been accorded the same military funeral of the son of Desmond Chan & Mdm Lim Teck Kheng...going by your argument. But were they?

If you say they should be veterans...does SAF have a military parade each year, honouring the "VETERANS" that had died, serving National Service, for the last 50 years. Bet you, when that one eye, legless or one hand Jason dies...he will be accorded a military funeral....if they can like Fat Boy Kim military parade.

MY POINT IS...you are nobody or connected or rich enough....you die training in NS, you are just another nameless, faceless, lesser mortal......never mind the VETERAN argument.

As I mentioned, Starlight is not the same. we are "supposed" to not be there. We were never there, no one ever saw us, and we never took training casualties there. If we openly honour our dead who died in training in ROC under Starlight, there would be dozens of funerals and China will call up our Ambassador and ask why the hell we have military personnel in a renegade Chinese province. So, all dead and wounded in ROC were covered up.

 

[halsey02]

Back then arty units were using the 120mm & 155mm rounds.

I only heard of 120mm rounds going short. Maybe the quality control is not so high because the 120 rounds were made locally?

SAf also had more 120mm units & the chances of things going wrong is much higher than with the howitzer units. In those days money must have been a problem. Imagine the cost of a howitzer shell. In those days money must have Been an issue & that is why they bought so many 2nd hand equipment.

The 120mm, 155mm rounds etc.. were army surplus from the Vietnam war....

 

[virus]

y no surplus vietnam roses?

 

[Charlie99]

It depends on the circumstances. In the past, all military deaths were quiet. Body was passed on to the relatives and they took care of everything. SAF was not involved. Recently, this has changed as you can see. However, if it was a negligent case, a clear cut one.............the guilty will not be accorded a military funeral, but the victims will. e.g. some idiot trooper is playing around with a live grenade, pulling pin out, putting it back in, etc. and the grenade exploded killing himself and 3 others. The 3 others might get a military funeral. The one playing around probably will not.

In the past, no one reported any accident or death during NS.

 

[scroobal]

All death cases of NS and regulars that occurs in the army while on duty, in camp etc without exception are handled by the Police. These include suicide cases, death in hospitals within 24 hrs of admission or reported by doctor after 24 hrs if the death is considered unnatural.

All overseas death cases of NS and Army are handled according to the laws and procedures of the country where the death has occurred.


All death cases of NS and Army personnel that occurs in international airspace and high seas are handled by Singapore Police.

Except for suicide cases by policy, the Mindef issues press statement. The one other exception is death occurred while in a foreign country and where the deployment or training is secret. Taiwan does not fall under this category.

The ones we hear and are captured in our minds are big or controversial events - NZ artillery explosion, Brunei Copter crash, OCT shot in the back, Guardmen falling to their death while rapelling from heli because one arsehole in the heli prematurely released the rope, commando drowns during torture training, father and mother make noise, the regulars trying to cover up with cock and bull stories.

Occasionally Mindef will respond to rumours of a supposed death.

The cover-up are where the big issues are and these are usually caught out during coroner's inquiry.

In the past, no one reported any accident or death during NS.