Malay jobless man stressed after having only $60 in pocket

Muslim inventions that shaped the modern world

By Olivia Sterns for CNN
January 29, 2010 -- Updated 1253 GMT (2053 HKT)

flyingman.story.inventions.jpg

In 9th century Spain, Muslim inventor Abbas ibn Firnas designed a flying machine -- hundreds of years before da Vinci drew plans of his own.

STORY HIGHLIGHTS
  • Exhibition celebrates 1,000 years of "forgotten" Muslim heritage
  • From coffee to cranks, items we couldn't live without today are Muslim inventions
  • Modern hospitals and universities both began in 9th century North Africa

London, England (CNN) -- Think of the origins of that staple of modern life, the cup of coffee, and Italy often springs to mind.

But in fact, Yemen is where the ubiquitous brew has its true origins.

Along with the first university, and even the toothbrush, it is among surprising Muslim inventions that have shaped the world we live in today.

The origins of these fundamental ideas and objects -- the basis of everything from the bicycle to musical scales -- are the focus of "1001 Inventions," a book celebrating "the forgotten" history of 1,000 years of Muslim heritage.

"There's a hole in our knowledge, we leap frog from the Renaissance to the Greeks," professor Salim al-Hassani, Chairman of the Foundation for Science, Technology and Civilisation, and editor of the book told CNN.

"1001 Inventions" is now an exhibition at London's Science Museum. Hassani hopes the exhibition will highlight the contributions of non-Western cultures -- like the Muslim empire that once covered Spain and Portugal, Southern Italy and stretched as far as parts of China -- to present day civilization.

Hospitals as we know them today, with wards and teaching centers, come from 9th century Egypt
--professor Salim al-Hassani



Here Hassani shares his top 10 outstanding Muslim inventions:


1. Surgery


Around the year 1,000, the celebrated doctor Al Zahrawi published a 1,500 page illustrated encyclopedia of surgery that was used in Europe as a medical reference for the next 500 years. Among his many inventions, Zahrawi discovered the use of dissolving cat gut to stitch wounds -- beforehand a second surgery had to be performed to remove sutures. He also reportedly performed the first caesarean operation and created the first pair of forceps.


2. Coffee


Now the Western world's drink du jour, coffee was first brewed in Yemen around the 9th century. In its earliest days, coffee helped Sufis stay up during late nights of devotion. Later brought to Cairo by a group of students, the coffee buzz soon caught on around the empire. By the 13th century it reached Turkey, but not until the 16th century did the beans start boiling in Europe, brought to Italy by a Venetian trader.

3. Flying machine


"Abbas ibn Firnas was the first person to make a real attempt to construct a flying machine and fly," said Hassani. In the 9th century he designed a winged apparatus, roughly resembling a bird costume. In his most famous trial near Cordoba in Spain, Firnas flew upward for a few moments, before falling to the ground and partially breaking his back. His designs would undoubtedly have been an inspiration for famed Italian artist and inventor Leonardo da Vinci's hundreds of years later, said Hassani.


4. University


In 859 a young princess named Fatima al-Firhi founded the first degree-granting university in Fez, Morocco. Her sister Miriam founded an adjacent mosque and together the complex became the al-Qarawiyyin Mosque and University. Still operating almost 1,200 years later, Hassani says he hopes the center will remind people that learning is at the core of the Islamic tradition and that the story of the al-Firhi sisters will inspire young Muslim women around the world today.


5. Algebra


The word algebra comes from the title of a Persian mathematician's famous 9th century treatise "Kitab al-Jabr Wa l-Mugabala" which translates roughly as "The Book of Reasoning and Balancing." Built on the roots of Greek and Hindu systems, the new algebraic order was a unifying system for rational numbers, irrational numbers and geometrical magnitudes. The same mathematician, Al-Khwarizmi, was also the first to introduce the concept of raising a number to a power.


6. Optics


"Many of the most important advances in the study of optics come from the Muslim world," says Hassani. Around the year 1000 Ibn al-Haitham proved that humans see objects by light reflecting off of them and entering the eye, dismissing Euclid and Ptolemy's theories that light was emitted from the eye itself. This great Muslim physicist also discovered the camera obscura phenomenon, which explains how the eye sees images upright due to the connection between the optic nerve and the brain.


7. Music


Muslim musicians have had a profound impact on Europe, dating back to Charlemagne tried to compete with the music of Baghdad and Cordoba, according to Hassani. Among many instruments that arrived in Europe through the Middle East are the lute and the rahab, an ancestor of the violin. Modern musical scales are also said to derive from the Arabic alphabet.


8. Toothbrush


According to Hassani, the Prophet Mohammed popularized the use of the first toothbrush in around 600. Using a twig from the Meswak tree, he cleaned his teeth and freshened his breath. Substances similar to Meswak are used in modern toothpaste.


9. The crank


Many of the basics of modern automatics were first put to use in the Muslim world, including the revolutionary crank-connecting rod system. By converting rotary motion to linear motion, the crank enables the lifting of heavy objects with relative ease. This technology, discovered by Al-Jazari in the 12th century, exploded across the globe, leading to everything from the bicycle to the internal combustion engine.


10. Hospitals


"Hospitals as we know them today, with wards and teaching centers, come from 9th century Egypt," explained Hassani. The first such medical center was the Ahmad ibn Tulun Hospital, founded in 872 in Cairo. Tulun hospital provided free care for anyone who needed it -- a policy based on the Muslim tradition of caring for all who are sick. From Cairo, such hospitals spread around the Muslim world.

https://www.sbs.com.au/topics/scien.../2016/07/12/six-great-inventions-muslim-world

For more information on muslim inventions go to: muslimheritage.com. For more information about the exhibition at London's Science Museum go to: science museum.org.uk
 
It's the infidels, like you, who are destined to hell. As for me, I don't know what the future holds. Alright monkeys?

A pig like you is going to hell.

Muslims, NOT Moslems, were the dominant power in the world for over 1000 years.

You mean you are proud that moslems have been killing and raping for the past 1000 years.

Genghis Khan wasn't aware that moslems were the dominant power.

The Ottoman Empire was dissolved in 1923.

By the 1700s, the Ottomans were known in Europe as the sick pig of europe. They were beaten by 2nd rate continental powers of europe like Austria who played little role in the global colonialization.

Muslims were the reason Europe had Renaissance.

You are wrong.

Europe had the Renaissance precisely because they didn't have Islam. The moslems were kicked out of Spain. And in a single generation, Spain went from nothing to a global empire with a handful of conquistadors. Renaissance started in Italy where there was no Islam.

If moslems were the reason for Renaissance, the Middle East would have long had their Renaissance. There was no sign of anything close to a Renaissance anywhere else in the world, especially in the moslem world.

If you didn't know, re-naissance means re-birth, which was necessary for European Ang mor science and tech because they were in the dark ages. Not needed for Muslims because Muslims were already advanced, back then.

Moslems were not that advanced back then. And they certainly weren't peaceful. Any technological advancement was put to military use to invade non-moslem territories for jihad. An example would be the Ottoman use of heavy artillery in the 15th century when few countries could afford them.

Moslems have no Renaissance to speak of. We only see a growing trend of Islamism in the past 15 years or so. It's like an Islamic Reverse-Renaissance, where formerly tolerant and friendly moslems because increasingly cruel and intolerant to people of other races, religions and even towards fellow moslems who do not share their intolerant bullshit.

Islam was and is meant for whole of humanity.

Islam was and is never meant for the betterment of humanity. Vast majority of the troubled places in the world are in moslem areas. Nearly all the stable and prosperous places in the world today are not moslems.

A religion is best judged by its fruits, not by its bullshit propaganda.
 
it is an unfortunate consequence that a school of thought carries all it's geographical and historical baggage with it. islam was honed in the middle east where it was meant to protect the tribes against other tribes and eventually against foreign invaders. that invader vs own people Muslim is very much in the consciousness of the religion. it infects its followers.

Islam is very much a warlike religion that is not in direct conflict with its religious teachings. It's hard to reconcile teachings of Jesus to the actions of Christian militant groups, but the acts of moslem militant groups is in harmony with islamic teachings and history. If moslem militant groups kill and enslave people, they are justified in their religious scriptures because muhammad and his companions once did all those, and till today, are celebrated for doing so.
 
$60 can buy 120 begedils.

If you do bulk purchase some kind macik might give free extra pieces of begedils.

Each begedil can be split into quarters. Total 360 pieces of begedil quarters.

Muslims are trained to fast, they are physiologically conditioned to eat one meal a day.

Everyday eat one piece of begedil. The other 5 days eat at charities, Buddhist Lodge etc.

This is how you get the best bang for your buck! :thumbsup:
 
$60 m&d jialat Liao..... gay fuck Daniel de costa has supposedly lodged police report against him for criminal intimidation.

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A pig like you is going to hell.

Pork eaters are those like you, a chink. Better call yourself a chink pig. Who the hell are you to decide if I'm going to hell? I can tell you will go there for sure coz you are a kafir.


You mean you are proud that moslems have been killing and raping for the past 1000 years.

Genghis Khan wasn't aware that moslems were the dominant power.

Mongols conquered and subdued the chinks establishing the yuan dynasty.

The same Mongols were decimated at the battle of ayn jalut.


By the 1700s, the Ottomans were known in Europe as the sick pig of europe. They were beaten by 2nd rate continental powers of europe like Austria who played little role in the global colonialization.

Inferior races like chinks ah nehs jews and others could never make it to europe through conquest.

Ottomans had to fight multiple Euro countries at the same time and yet, the Italians taught their children, the turks are coming. Mamma li Turchi.

You are wrong.

not quite.

Europe had the Renaissance precisely because they didn't have Islam. The moslems were kicked out of Spain. And in a single generation, Spain went from nothing to a global empire with a handful of conquistadors. Renaissance started in Italy where there was no Islam.

Re-naissance, or re-birth of sci/tech started in southern europe, italy, spain, portugal. all regions where Muslims ruled for 8 centuries. Not in scandinavia or slavic europe for example.

Southern parts of italy, sicily and other regions were controlled by Muslims for many centuries to defend against European barbarism, vandalism, terrorism, murderous campaigns.


If moslems were the reason for Renaissance, the Middle East would have long had their Renaissance. There was no sign of anything close to a Renaissance anywhere else in the world, especially in the moslem world.

The Middle East did not have a re-naissance, or re-birth, of sci/tech because the Middle East was the leading light for millennia. From the earliest civilizations in today's Iraq & syria, like the Babylonians and Assyrians, Phoenicians to Egyptians and the Persians, and Tunisia.

To all the way down to the Ottoman Empire which was dissolved as recently as 1923.


Moslems were not that advanced back then. And they certainly weren't peaceful. Any technological advancement was put to military use to invade non-moslem territories for jihad. An example would be the Ottoman use of heavy artillery in the 15th century when few countries could afford them.

This is just fantasy. You can start writing a work of fiction if you like.

Muslims controlled Spain and Portugal in their entirety and southern regions of Italy, France and such for over 8 centuries. Because Europe was backward at that time, there was no incentive to push further into Europe. Muslim travelers' and ambassadors' accounts of Europe at that time were very negative.


Moslems have no Renaissance to speak of. We only see a growing trend of Islamism in the past 15 years or so. It's like an Islamic Reverse-Renaissance, where formerly tolerant and friendly moslems because increasingly cruel and intolerant to people of other races, religions and even towards fellow moslems who do not share their intolerant bullshit.

Muslims, not Moslems, you chink mongrel.

Re-naissance, or re-birth, is a European concept that was appropriate for them given their relative backwardness. They needed to acquire scientific and technological know how from Muslims to advance their own knowledge of the sciences and tech.

Muslim countries like Pakistan can help drop a nuke on stinkiepore that can eliminate stinkiepore from the map. Quite literally.

More politically correct solution is to keep firing tens of thousands of SRBM, MRBM and IRBM at stinkypore from Sumatra, Riau Islands, Malaya, Borneo, Java, Sulawesi and even Papua to flatten stinkypore. Iran can help Malaysia and Indonesia with that, behind the scenes if needed.


Islam was and is never meant for the betterment of humanity. Vast majority of the troubled places in the world are in moslem areas. Nearly all the stable and prosperous places in the world today are not moslems.

A religion is best judged by its fruits, not by its bullshit propaganda.


Muslims, not Moslems, you chink mongrel.

Islam is the solution for Humanity as a whole.


Today is a fleeting moment in time.

Who the heck is John Tan? 100 years from now nobody would care, nobody would know.

The stable and prosperous places are universally stooge regimes of the Yanks. More politely, aligned with the Yanks.

Yanks create instability in the Muslim world so that there is no stable and prosperous place in the Muslim world.

That is why countries like Iran, Turkey and Pakistan need to merge, eliminate all divide and merge into one superstate with their own nuclear arsenal and ICBM. Then they can drive the Yanks out of the wider Middle East. And teach the Ah Nehs a lesson too
 
Yanks create instability in the Muslim world so that there is no stable and prosperous place in the Muslim world.

Thru lies and deceits yankee fooled the world into believing Iraq had WMD....Sept 11 were committed by Saud Arab terrorists? Yet sold weapons by the billions to current Saud. So whos the REAL TERRORIST?

Instigating Iraq to invade Iran. Destabilising Egypt and Libya by supporting the locals to rebel against the govt. Not forgetting the Afghan and Palestinian issue too. All these casualities/deaths add up to millions and millions of death/casualties. So whos the REAL TERRORIST? Yankee just keep invading and destabilising the ME region.



 
Thru lies and deceits yankee fooled the world into believing Iraq had WMD....Sept 11 were committed by Saud Arab terrorists? Yet sold weapons by the billions to current Saud. So whos the REAL TERRORIST?

Instigating Iraq to invade Iran. Destabilising Egypt and Libya by supporting the locals to rebel against the govt. Not forgetting the Afghan and Palestinian issue too. All these casualities/deaths add up to millions and millions of death/casualties. So whos the REAL TERRORIST? Yankee just keep invading and destabilising the ME region.






You can't expect the stinky chinks not to follow their masters.

The masters can change, their coolie peasant genes can't change.

They need a leader to guide them, they are mere sheeple. Mindless slit eyed sheeple who can't see properly and think on their own.

Their master could be an emperor like emperor xi in tiongkok or emperor lee in stinkypore.

Or their master could be some jew or ang mor from usa or uk.

coolie peasant genes are hard to change :roflmao:
 
Hello fren, the malays receive positive discrimination in sgp. The community got a lot of freebies that the others don't get.

I am still waiting for ur reply. Please list down all the freebies Malays get from the garment? Only subsidy from Mendaki in Uni. And the land price set at affordable prices to build Masjid....tats for worshipping. Having Sharia court for Muslims. I appreciate, of course. But is not FREE as u had put it?:rolleyes:

I had to pay for my University education without the benefits of any subsidy. Do I begrudge the malays who got a free ride in Uni? Of course not. I believe in the mission of uplifting the community. A successful Malay is a successful Singaporean.

Yes. I appreciate ur understanding too. But please teres a diff between subsidy and free. As i had mentioned i paid for my children Uni fees. No free ride for them.

Another thing. Please be careful with ur choice of words. LOTS OF FREEBIES? Sighhh.......:rolleyes:
 
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Who the hell are you to decide if I'm going to hell? I can tell you will go there for sure coz you are a kafir.

Because I don't follow a false prophet. People who follow false prophets go to hell. So that's why you are going to hell.

Mongols conquered and subdued the chinks establishing the yuan dynasty.

The same Mongols were decimated at the battle of ayn jalut.

The mongol main force raped and destroyed your arab masters at their capital baghad. The battle of ayn jalut was fought by the main force of the mamlukes versus a remanant army of Hulagu, who had already left the area with his main force. If you need to boast about such unequal odds as a victory, your ego must be so in desperate need for self validation.

Genghis Khan smashed islam all the way despite being grossly outnumbered and much poorer.

Muslims controlled Spain and Portugal in their entirety and southern regions of Italy, France and such for over 8 centuries. Because Europe was backward at that time, there was no incentive to push further into Europe. Muslim travelers' and ambassadors' accounts of Europe at that time were very negative.

Wrong.

Europe, from the start, even during the Roman era, was prosperous in fertile land, wood and trade. That's why nomadic tribes like the Huns, Visigoth, Alains, all headed west towards europe. The moslems invaded europe repeatedly throughout the history of islam partly because europe had great fertile lands for settling and plundering.

Moslems did push deep into Europe, into the center of France, until they were decisively beaten at Tours by Charles Martel. You clearly don't know your history and is dumb. Or you were educated at a madrassah, which basically means you are still uneducated.

Ottomans had to fight multiple Euro countries at the same time and yet, the Italians taught their children, the turks are coming. Mamma li Turchi.

Wrong.

Ottomans invaded numerous European countries at the same time, most of them because they were Christian and because they were militarily weaker. The Ottomans, with the blessings of their imams, initiated war to take land from non-moslems.

Italians taught their kids that the moslem turks were murderers, rapists, pirates and bandits. And they were not wrong.


Re-naissance, or re-birth, is a European concept that was appropriate for them given their relative backwardness. They needed to acquire scientific and technological know how from Muslims to advance their own knowledge of the sciences and tech.

Moslems were not known to be forward and advanced. The ottoman empire was known more for its military jihad invasions of europe, its harems, forced conversion of christian kids into Janissaries (think of ISIS and its use of kids in terrorism), enslaving non-moslems in Balkan territories (think of ISIS and its treatment of the Yazidis). The abbassids and umayyids were not more advanced than the Tang or Sung dynasties. The mughals were only remembered for the white elephant tourist attraction Taj Mahal and their immense cruelty towards their Hindu subjects.

Inventions like the printing press, electric light bulb, railway, all did not come from moslems or islam.

slam is the solution for Humanity as a whole.



Little wonder you are a moron. You actually believe in the message of the swine moron preach, zakir nair. Zakir nair is officially a money launderer, hate preacher and a charlatan, a fraud. The only people more stupid than zakir nair are those who believe in his sermons.



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The stable and prosperous places are universally stooge regimes of the Yanks. More politely, aligned with the Yanks.

The stable and prosperous places are universally are places without or minimal islamic influence. Look at Europe in the past, East Asia, North America. The poor places tend to be very islamic. Think of aceh, kelantan, terrenganu, marawi, fallujah, kashmir, south thailand.

Europe today is on the decline, and that's after they imported too many moslems who are mostly economically unproductive, working in low value work like selling kebabs, involved in all sorts of illicit vice activities or stirring shariah and terrorism shit from their turkish and gulf sponsored mosques.

Yanks create instability in the Muslim world so that there is no stable and prosperous place in the Muslim world.

Islam created instability in the Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Animist worlds so that many of these places that were once prosperous were no longer prosperous. I don't see you having a problem with moslems invading non-moslem countries for plunder, rape, and forced conversions.
 
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Islam is very much a warlike religion that is not in direct conflict with its religious teachings. It's hard to reconcile teachings of Jesus to the actions of Christian militant groups, but the acts of moslem militant groups is in harmony with islamic teachings and history. If moslem militant groups kill and enslave people, they are justified in their religious scriptures because muhammad and his companions once did all those, and till today, are celebrated for doing so.
Ah Jesus. He's a good teacher, and sorry to say this and please take it as a literary assessment, but he's like the only worthwhile character in the whole book. You can pretty much throw the rest of the book away.

while in today's age you might be right, but historically, most schools of thought with god's or godlike endorsement also share this unfortunate consequence that at some point, they were guilty of killing and enslaving people. The first step to such heinous acts is dehumanization of the enemy. Abrahamic religions create this dichotomy of a divine god's chosen people and those who are not. In Judaism's case, you are either born to a mother who can give you divinity or not. The conditions in Christianity you know well and Islam is somewhat similar. When you have met these divinity conditions there is a tendency to look down on those who have not. So, if one belongs to one religion and someone else to another, the stage is set for conflict because both are now equally convinced of how right they are and how wrong the other is. From this point on, the escalation to a conflagaration of religious extremism only needs a few bumps in the wrong direction and a spark and that's because all the fuel has already been poured on. To me, this is THE fatal flaw built into all Abrahamic religions. Of course wise enough people can avoid this, but it tends to become a very integral part of belonging to a religion.

White supremacist groups often use their christian religion as endorsement for their actions. KKK anyone? I mentioned in another thread that the Jews are very masterful at spin doctoring their views so most people are unaware of what's really going on. The decision to invade the Middle East was made based on this "god's holy mission" narrative. Pardon me, but if you don't mind, I would like to invite @whoami to see this too. I think it's a useful discussion point.
 
Actually mudhatter is ok lah. If u care to browse thru past post...tat two resident Moron started it first. With all their anti Malay/Muslims thread...cursing and swearing and ridiculing the Holy book and our Prophet....Mudhatter post is pale in comparison to the other two resident Moron.

Sure...we can discuss abt religion, race....but no need to bring in mother, father, cursing and swearing. Tats not discussion. Just like hofmann. No problem discussion with him. Just tat the words he used. I find it very amusing. Hope he could download some link as evidence.
actually no he is not. he is worse. nothing but racial hatred in his posts. no useful information at all. put him in Christian camp he will become like white supremacist, put him in Jewish camp he will be Zionist, put him in Muslim camp and you will get Islamic state terrorist. This kind of creature is exactly how middle East got invaded. He talks about chinks can go back to China all the time. Worse than mother, father and swearing. Put him in charge of a country and he will be no different from Nazi in charge of Jews.

This kind of people first thing he creates is hate for Malay people. That's all his posts do. Nobody reading any of his post will come away with good feelings for Malay people. 2nd thing he does is create hate for Chinese and Indians. Hate creates hate. If I were Malay I will tell him to take his hatred and shove it, he is making Malays look like dumb and angry people and is encouraging mistreatment of all races. He is like a Trump for Malays.

I know that as a general rule, minorities always get treated poorly no matter where and that it's understandably easy to get upset. I feel what you feel, but do you really want everyone to be shipped back to China and India?
 
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U may know ur job well and work very very hard. But if ur supervisor dont like u no matter how hard u worked also useless. I am not saying we shouldnt work hard. Its not what u know but Who u know.
true anywhere and like I say if supervisor is useless, go work someplace else. eventually you will find someone who appreciates you. those that don't too bad for them. they are missing out on you! :thumbsup:
 
OK...let me share with u. Tis wat i get from my Malay and cheena friends. The older generation PG and MG, the baby boomers, are more "racist". Maybe the Spore/Msia racial riot reason for the hate. The younger Y generation...strawberry generation, those born after 1990 generally quite alright. :smile:

It is true what you say. I'm not born after 1990, but as I live I learn. But the riot terrible as it was is not the reason for the hate. I think the hate caused the riot. I say hate creates hate. You start looking down on someone, the person has few choices how to treat you kembalikan -- start hating or just ignore and forgive. Back then, I think races did not respect each other. It is as you say natural. If a person is brought up to love people, when meeting something strange, he will try to see how to love it. If a person is brought up in an environment with negative feelings, he will naturally put those feelings into it.

I think back then, everybody suspicious of each other. After war and after independence, nobody trusts anyone anymore. perfect storm. some more political with singapore coming in back then. Politics and politicians pui! I was too young to understand back then, but now today world a more stable place. everybody enjoying the fruits of being with different races. I mean even when going out makan, our choices are so good because of different races. Mee rebus? Need malay and chinese influence. The noodle making is chinese, but the kuah and flavour is a malay interpretation. bagus! :thumbsup: One of the things I love best is our unique cuisine only made possible because of different races. why not rite? :smile:

Thank you for discussion. It's fun and relaxing and I learn a new perspective. :notworthy:
 
lots of empty and meaningless fluff

here let me summarize it for you

:FU:

see? keep it succinct next time leh
ah... gracing us with your readily apparent intellect and creativity I see. how about impressing us in your next act by sticking your fingers in your ears and endlessly repeating I can't hear you?

Now witness how awe-stricken I am to be in the presence of such an illuminatus. :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

Truly, I am grateful that everything we say is recorded for posterity.

if you weren't doing such a disservice to Malays and everybody who interacts with Malays, I would just discount you as a pitiful, unloved gollum always chasing after his precious. but you are and you have now elevated yourself to a verifiable public nuisance creating blowback for Malays. Think for a bit if you are capable and seriously go find a way to love yourself. If you can't understand what I am saying, just look at gollum and draw a parallel. This will be the last piece of advice I will give to you so make the most of it. :thumbsup:
 
White supremacist groups often use their christian religion as endorsement for their actions. KKK anyone? I mentioned in another thread that the Jews are very masterful at spin doctoring their views so most people are unaware of what's really going on. The decision to invade the Middle East was made based on this "god's holy mission" narrative. Pardon me, but if you don't mind, I would like to invite @whoami to see this too. I think it's a useful discussion point.

Bang...so long time permit, no problem discussing with u and the rest. As for jt and hypocrite....quarrelsome lot. Enough with them. We are here to tcss or discussion. Not to curse and swear, bring in mother father. Nah...buang masa dan bawa penyakit je.
 
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