Low Versus Low

[jw5]

I think opposition die hard supporters are a bit unfair to LTK and Chiam.

Imagine, when PAP praises LTK or Chiam, people start to say they are "approved opposition". But nobody will say PAP is "approved ruling party" when opposition members praise them!



Goh Meng Seng

So do you agree with my post about LTK?

 

[sleaguepunter]

Mr IR123,

have you ever been to Hougang SMC in your whole life? If you have not, i suggest you head down there to see for yourself before firing off your keyboard against LTK. If you believe the BS from 151th about "approved oppostion", then you are just as bad as the 66.66% of the voters who voted for pap.
i had voted for LTK twice, not because he a teochew speaker (l am cantonese) or he a pap "approved opposition". i voted for him because he had done a good job taking care of the estate of hougang. i had seen him serving the residents during the weekly MPS on wedensday 7pm at the void deck of block 310. And the residents really get to speak to him about their problem instead of some flunkies from the RC from pap admined GRC/SMC. The residents get a personal touch from LTK which is absent from pap mps.
LTK had done a great job considering the resources he has on hand. Before you ppl discredit him because of some 151th news articles, think first, find out more, dont just shoot from the hip. How can believe anything written from 151th is only a pap mouthpiece?

 

[wikiphile]

If I ever become the government one day, I will change all these. Political parties, be it ruling or opposition, must be treated as important assets for building a sustainable, stable government. PAP government has the besiege mentality that those who are not with them, must be some "donkeys or trouble makers" out to destroy them, out to destroy Singapore. I think this is not supposed to a healthy mindset of a self proclaimed World Class government. It is really a shame that they have Third Class mentality as a world class government.

Goh Meng Seng

hohohoho, i like this statement, IF

 

[IR123]

...

I think you misunderstood me. I have not used the phrase 'approved opposition' on him as i do not know what that means in the political context. Neither are my knowledge gleaned solely from the Straits Times. And yes, I have been to Hougang, more impressive than Potong Pasir but less than the PAP wards. Understandable in view of the constraints he operate under.

However i think you mixed up the qualities of a constituency manager with that of a leader of a political party. Nonetheless I am not even talking about that in these posts.

I am just thinking through the role that he played in the context of Singapore's politics, the advancements that he made after 20 years and what it implies for the future of singapore's politics.

 

[silverfox@]

i had voted for LTK twice, not because he a teochew speaker (l am cantonese) or he a pap "approved opposition". i voted for him because he had done a good job taking care of the estate of hougang. i had seen him serving the residents during the weekly MPS on wedensday 7pm at the void deck of block 310. And the residents really get to speak to him about their problem instead of some flunkies from the RC from pap admined GRC/SMC. The residents get a personal touch from LTK which is absent from pap mps.
LTK had done a great job considering the resources he has on hand. Before you ppl discredit him because of some 151th news articles, think first, find out more, dont just shoot from the hip. How can believe anything written from 151th is only a pap mouthpiece?

If I stay in Hougang, i will also vote for Low Thia Khiang. Which MP will make the effort to send his condolences to the family of bereavement?

Just his attendance shows his personal touch and I don't think many PAP MPs will even make that effort. (They have bigger issues to settle, isn't that)

His effort and sincerity is worth that 1 small vote.

 

[IR123]

CST and LTK are excellent grassroots mps & very popular in their constituencies, that's why they won successive elections.

That is a conclusion you draw but one i do not share. It is true is they won successive elections but it is not neccessarily true that they won because of their excellence and popularity because the composition of the electorate plays a crucial part.

The victory can be due to a static composition. Change that composition and the results may change. This point cannot be discounted at this time unless you wear a bias lens.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

I am just thinking through the role that he played in the context of Singapore's politics, the advancements that he made after 20 years and what it implies for the future of singapore's politics.

LTK's role as a leader of WP only starts in year 2000 after he took over as the Secretary General position of WP.

By GE2006, he was able to execute a re-branding exercise for WP and made some gain for the party i.e. NCMP seat and attracted new people into the party.

What it implies for the future of Singapore? Nobody knows yet and it depends very much on whether WP could continue to work on its foundation and win more seats. However, WP does have a serious problem... i.e. continuity of groomed candidates. At this moment, it has only managed to retain roughly 8 or 9 out of 20 candidates who have contested in GE2006. It has also lost some highly qualified people which it has recruited in the post GE2006 era, including Tony Tan presently in RP.

We will have to wait and see what happens next. Whether WP can walk out of the coming elections with better showing in spite of having newer and inexperienced candidates, let the poll results speak for itself.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[IR123]

...

Thank you for your points.

 

[sleaguepunter]

However i think you mixed up the qualities of a constituency manager with that of a leader of a political party. Nonetheless I am not even talking about that in these posts.

I am just thinking through the role that he played in the context of Singapore's politics, the advancements that he made after 20 years and what it implies for the future of singapore's politics.

first of all, as a former resident of hougang smc (still staying in hougang but now under TSL), i voted for LTK for taking care of hougang smc first, singapore second. He may or may be good at national politics(not for me to judge), i more concern what he can bring to residents of hougang first as he a MP for hougang.
What the use of being a ministar calibre when the farker cannot be found at MPS or didnt even appear in the duration of 5 years as MP. I had seen LTK countless time during my stay in hougang smc and i only saw TSL once for the last 5 years since i moved. As for hougang smc not as good as pap run smc/grc, i beg to differ. hougang look old becasue it is old, ave 3 was built in the 70s while ave 5 & 7 in 1983. looking at Toa Payoh and AMK old flats of the same era, hougang smc didnt fare badly. In fact, u can find giant rats in LHL's Teck Ghee estate running ard in board daylight. So what the use of having a PM as MP when the farker cannot even find a proper estate officer to run the estate on his/her behalf.
As for the compostion of the voters play a part in LTK winning, it may or may not be a deciding factor. Hougang SMC is not like 151th proclaim a lower middle class estate. While there are many 3 & 4 rooms households, there are also lots of HUDC aka HDB EM & EA types of flats. Most of these hdb EMs are concentrated in HG ave 2 & 7, quite a subtantial number of households. There are also 5rooms in HG central and ave 5 and of course the private estates and private condos within the SMC. All in all, Hougang SMC have a good mix of households, representing a wide range of households. LTK keep being reelected due to winning the hearts of majority of hougang resident and not due to poor teochew voters.

 

[silverfox@]

first of all, as a former resident of hougang smc (still staying in hougang but now under TSL), i voted for LTK for taking care of hougang smc first, singapore second. He may or may be good at national politics(not for me to judge), i more concern what he can bring to residents of hougang first as he a MP for hougang.
What the use of being a ministar calibre when the farker cannot be found at MPS or didnt even appear in the duration of 5 years as MP. I had seen LTK countless time during my stay in hougang smc and i only saw TSL once for the last 5 years since i moved. As for hougang smc not as good as pap run smc/grc, i beg to differ. hougang look old becasue it is old, ave 3 was built in the 70s while ave 5 & 7 in 1983. looking at Toa Payoh and AMK old flats of the same era, hougang smc didnt fare badly. In fact, u can find giant rats in LHL's Teck Ghee estate running ard in board daylight. So what the use of having a PM as MP when the farker cannot even find a proper estate officer to run the estate on his/her behalf.
As for the compostion of the voters play a part in LTK winning, it may or may not be a deciding factor. Hougang SMC is not like 151th proclaim a lower middle class estate. While there are many 3 & 4 rooms households, there are also lots of HUDC aka HDB EM & EA types of flats. Most of these hdb EMs are concentrated in HG ave 2 & 7, quite a subtantial number of households. There are also 5rooms in HG central and ave 5 and of course the private estates and private condos within the SMC. All in all, Hougang SMC have a good mix of households, representing a wide range of households. LTK keep being reelected due to winning the hearts of majority of hougang resident and not due to poor teochew voters.

Very solid posts as to why Low Thia Khiang won over Hougang supporters. Every opposition should understand that to win the election is not from their point of view but how the people look at them. Every single move, handshake, personal touch makes a difference

 

[Ramseth]

Very solid posts as to why Low Thia Khiang won over Hougang supporters. Every opposition should understand that to win the election is not from their point of view but how the people look at them. Every single move, handshake, personal touch makes a difference

LTK sits around Hougang coffeeshops drinking stout and smoking ciggies chatting with uncles and aunties.

Do they think it's bad example or bad influence? Hardly, judging by the polling results.

 

[silverfox@]

LTK sits around Hougang coffeeshops drinking stout and smoking ciggies chatting with uncles and aunties.

Do they think it's bad example or bad influence? Hardly, judging by the polling results.

That depends. To lightning white MPs who don't smoke, don't drink stout, doesn't mean they really care about the residents. Don't care black or white cat, most important is the cat must know how to catch mouse. :p

 

[jw5]

LTK sits around Hougang coffeeshops drinking stout and smoking ciggies chatting with uncles and aunties.

Do they think it's bad example or bad influence? Hardly, judging by the polling results.

LTK's habits have absolutely nothing to do with polling results and his ability as an mp and to operate a town council.
Just like Steve Chia's hobbies have absolutely nothing to do with his polling results, his ability as an mp and his performance in parliament.
I'll take the opportunity to answer Silverfox's question here whether I will let my wife or daughter associate with him. How is that at all relevant? There is no answer to this question, in fact, the question should not even be asked.

Even if someone asks whether we wil let our son hang around Silverfox the sammyboy forummer, given that he likes to go casinos. How is that relevant? Silverfox is a good forummer who contributes interesting posts in this forum. Why would the question of letting your son hang around him even arise? It's not as if we are talking about the hobbies of a tuition teacher or a nanny.

 

[silverfox@]

LTK's habits have absolutely nothing to do with polling results and his ability as an mp and to operate a town council.
Just like Steve Chia's hobbies have absolutely nothing to do with his polling results, his ability as an mp and his performance in parliament.
I'll take the opportunity to answer Silverfox's question here whether I will let my wife or daughter associate with him. How is that at all relevant? There is no answer to this question, in fact, the question should not even be asked.

Eve if someone asks whether we wil let our son hang around Silverfox the sammyboy forummer, given that he likes to go casinos. How is that relevant? Silverfox is a good forummer who contributes interesting posts in this forum. Why would the question of letting your son hang around him even arise? It's not as if we are talking about the hobbies of a tuition teacher or a nanny.

You need to convince the residents which is more acceptable.
hobby of Smoking n drinking stout vs hobby of taking nude photos.

The former will be more acceptable to most. Women especially feel uncomfortable with the latter reason.

Don't let your son come near me.

 

[Sideswipe]

LTK sits around Hougang coffeeshops drinking stout and smoking ciggies chatting with uncles and aunties.
Do they think it's bad example or bad influence? Hardly, judging by the polling results.

my previous mp low seow chay ( CCK ) apparently fought with a uncle at teck whye market. he still got elected. who cared? his opponent took maid naked pic. great choices of candidates - you either chose ip man or fetish man.

 

[silverfox@]

my previous mp low seow chay ( CCK ) apparently fought with a uncle at teck whye market. he still got elected. who cared? his opponent took maid naked pic. great choices of candidates - you either chose ip man or fetish man.

Donnie Yen vs Edison Chen, hmmmm, what a tough choice.

 

[jw5]

You need to convince the residents which is more acceptable.
hobby of Smoking n drinking stout vs hobby of taking nude photos.

The former will be more acceptable to most. Women especially feel uncomfortable with the latter reason.

Don't let your son come near me.

I agree with this post.
In my previous post in the other thread, I also said that voters especially women would be uncomfortable. Perhaps not logically so, but still uncomfortable.
What I'm saying is that your question was totally irrelevant.

 

[God Meng Seng]

Low Thia Kiang is very credible.

SDP GO FLY KITE.

Statement / Press Release

24 September 2010 <!-- by WP webmaster -->Press Release by MP for Hougang on Insight report for Hougang Constituency

Low Thia Khiang, MP for Hougang I refer to the Straits Time Insight report on Hougang Constituency published on 24 September 2010.
Mr Eric Low said, “at every wake, he would send a blanket from the town council”. I would like to clarify that blankets and donations to families of deceased residents are given in my personal capacity as MP for Hougang to offer my condolences, not from the town council.
He was further quoted to have invited me for the meeting of HUDC cluster privatisation, to which I have replied, “too busy and didn’t want to come”. Mr Eric Low had brought this up in a conversation when we met at a lunar seventh month dinner. Never had it crossed my mind that a brief casual conversation was actually an official and important invitation to a formal dialogue session and not a grassroots meeting. In any case as I understand it, the dialogue session was organised by the People’s Association (PA) and Mr Eric Low was invited as the Guest-of-Honour. I was not informed nor invited to the meeting by the PA.
Next came the most intriguing point raised in the report, and I quote: “When the opposition lose in PAP wards, where do they go to? Do you see them in the PAP wards?”
These words and the underlying meaning behind them show exactly the kind of political system we have in Singapore.
Let me touch on the first point: “Where do they go to?”
When a PAP candidate loses the election, he is appointed or will remain as “Adviser” to the grassroots organisations. He heads the Community Club (CC) and nominates or endorses members of the Residents’ Committee (RC) whose activities are co-ordinated and routinely administered by the PA which is funded by government budget.
At the party level, he is in charge of the PAP’s branch in the constituency which is closely affiliated to the PAP Community Foundation (PCF). The PAP party office is usually located inside the premises of PCF, which is registered as a charitable organisation and runs pre-education classes for residents in the ward. The PCF premises are granted “concessionary rent” by the HDB.
To summarise, when a PAP candidate loses the election, he goes to the CC under the umbrella of the PA and to his party office under the PCF, where he can conduct meet-the-people sessions in a proper office in air-condition comfort.
Now, when a WP candidate loses the election, he has to, quite simply put it, ‘roam the streets’ if he wishes to continue extending his reach in the ward.
When the WP narrowly lost in the 1997 General Election, the former Secretary-General of the Workers’ Party, JB Jeyaretnam, wanted to continue to meet the residents of Cheng San GRC weekly to hear their concerns. This was held in a coffee shop but the coffee shop was soon branded as a place used for political purposes.
The second point: “do you see them in the ward?” makes a mockery out of our supposedly democratic political system.
We see the PAP’s presence in every ward, be it in their own or in the opposition’s.
Firstly, government initiated programs, such as Lift Upgrading Program and HUDC Estate Privatisation exercise, mandate the “Adviser” to play a central role.
The adviser is to assist in implementing privatisation of HUDC estates by endorsing the Protem Committee members and interacting with residents through dialogue sessions, house-to-house visits, etc. In the case of HDB flat Lift Upgrading, the Adviser is to announce the precinct being selected, preside over the exhibition in the ward and oversee the LUP working committee.
The elected MP has no say!
Secondly, the PA assists the grassroots organisations, which include the RCs, Constituency Sports Club, CC etc to organise social and community events and the Adviser is invited as Guest-of-Honour. This gives a great opportunity to the Adviser to be seen and heard by the people in the ward. The Adviser is also invited to other functions such as lunar seventh month dinner organised by the residents and to functions organised by schools within the constituency.
Thirdly, PCF, the charity arm of the PAP which offers nursery and kindergarten classes to residents, also invites the Adviser as the Guest-of-Honour for their graduation ceremonies. This is usually well attended by parents who live in the constituency.
Finally at the national level, the Adviser is invited to events such as National Day Parade, official ceremony of governmental events or campaigns, as well as, events such as the F1 Race.
As for WP, what options do we have? We have applied to Town Councils and CCs managed by the PAP to hold dialogue sessions and block parties for residents previously but these applications were promptly rejected.
Given such limitations, we can only try to enhance our presence in the various wards through house-to-house visits.
Unlike the PAP candidates who lost in the General Election, our candidates have to rely on our own limited resources amidst the constraints and obstacles hurled upon us.
Therefore, I am surprised to hear such sarcasm from Mr Eric Low “where do they go to?” and “do you see them in the ward?” The PAP puts in overwhelming resources to have their presence felt and is equally determined in quelling the opposition’s presence.
Singapore is supposedly at the crossroads of an era where many good things are happening in our country. We talk about the YOG competitive spirit and fairness. We talk about openness and democracy. We talk about empowering our people.
But are we truly promoting the spirit of competition? Can we truly be open with our views? Are we truly empowered?
Low Thia Khiang

 

[silverfox@]

I agree with this post.
In my previous post in the other thread, I also said that voters especially women would be uncomfortable. Perhaps not logically so, but still uncomfortable.
What I'm saying is that your question was totally irrelevant.

My question or Ramseth's? You mean the good or bad influence?:o

 

[jw5]

My question or Ramseth's? You mean the good or bad influence?:o

Your question whether we would let our wives and daughters be around him.
It's as irrelevant as someone in the forum saying "Would you let your sons and daughters be around Silverfox? He likes to go to Casino you know?"

Silverfox is a forummer who posts some interesting things in sammyboy's coffeeshop forum. Why in the world would this question even arise? It's not as if Silverfox is a tutor or a nanny, or at least I don't think you are.