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Life is going to be harder for Trump

johnny333

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Multiculturalism has been a disaster everywhere. It never works because different cultures have different value systems.

The very definition of a country is one where the citizens share common values and moral standards. That's how borders were drawn when the concept of "country" first came to being.

If half of a country believed in equality of sexes and the other half practiced polygamy and female genital mutilation I can guarantee you that borders would soon be redefined.

A country has to have a dominant culture or it is not a country. I'm not saying it has to be absolutely homogeneous but if there is no clarity over which culture is in charge it is a sure recipe for unrest.


Look at Spore. Isn't this a country with multiculturalism? Other examples exist: Malaysia, Australia, Hong Kong, Canada, US, .. etc. Take a look at the gov't of Canada. You will find Sikhs, Indians, .... in the government.

The problem is when there is a perception of being treated unfairly. For example in Spore, citizens feel that foreigners are treated better, whether they are from China, Malaysia, or elsewhere.

Another factor is how open a society is. Countries like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan,... etc where topics on religion are very sensitive. Do note that many of their citizens chose to emigrate to the 1st world because of the freedom that exists in those countries. There are of course some trouble makers that expect their adopted countries to convert. They cause problems like terrorism instead of just leaving & going back to the third world.
 

Leongsam

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Look at Spore. Isn't this a country with multiculturalism? Other examples exist: Malaysia, Australia, Hong Kong, Canada, US, .. etc. Take a look at the gov't of Canada. You will find Sikhs, Indians, .... in the government.

The problem is when there is a perception of being treated unfairly. For example in Spore, citizens feel that foreigners are treated better, whether they are from China, Malaysia, or elsewhere.

Another factor is how open a society is. Countries like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan,... etc where topics on religion are very sensitive. Do note that many of their citizens chose to emigrate to the 1st world because of the freedom that exists in those countries. There are of course some trouble makers that expect their adopted countries to convert. They cause problems like terrorism instead of just leaving & going back to the third world.

Singapore is dominated by the Chinese.

Malaysia is dominated by Islam.

Hongkong is dominated by the Chinese.

Your idea of successful multiculturalism is actually one dominant culture with a fusion of other cultures mainly in the form of food.

Currently the Malay population in Singapore is 15% and this small proportion has already imposed their will and deprived the non Muslims of choices when it comes to culinary diversity. As the proportion of the Malays increases you'll be seeing further restrictions and intrusions on the way of life of the Chinese. They'll want alcohol free areas, dog free areas, time off for prayers etc.

You have this idea that multiculturalism is all warm and friendly interaction, visiting each other on festive occasions, sharing recipes and other joyful activities. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Take it from me that underneath this facade the majority of the Malays hate the other races. I experienced it firsthand when I was in a relationship with a Malay girl. The campaign they launched to break up the relationship was vicious.

I admire your rosy outlook but in truth reality is a lot more sinister.
 

johnny333

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Singapore is dominated by the Chinese.

Malaysia is dominated by Islam.

Hongkong is dominated by the Chinese.

Your idea of successful multiculturalism is actually one dominant culture with a fusion of other cultures mainly in the form of food.

Currently the Malay population in Singapore is 15% and this small proportion has already imposed their will and deprived the non Muslims of choices when it comes to culinary diversity. As the proportion of the Malays increases you'll be seeing further restrictions and intrusions on the way of life of the Chinese. They'll want alcohol free areas, dog free areas, time off for prayers etc.

You have this idea that multiculturalism is all warm and friendly interaction, visiting each other on festive occasions, sharing recipes and other joyful activities. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Take it from me that underneath this facade the majority of the Malays hate the other races. I experienced it firsthand when I was in a relationship with a Malay girl. The campaign they launched to break up the relationship was vicious.

I admire your rosy outlook but in truth reality is a lot more sinister.


You might think my view is rosy but this is what exists today. If you visit the countries of Europe & Britain, you will find many non-white faces. I'm talking about the existence of multiculturalism & not commenting on whether friction exists between the different cultures. You will always find friction in any society e.g. rich vs poor, christians vs catholics, in politics, ...

The movement of people from 3rd world to 1st world countries have been going on for decades.

I bring up Canada because I think they are doing a better job of integrating. They have more room & Canada is a new country. Many Canadians I've met are 2nd or 3rd generation, i.e. relatively immigrants from the US, Germany, Sweden, asia,.... etc
 

Leongsam

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You might think my view is rosy but this is what exists today. If you visit the countries of Europe & Britain, you will find many non-white faces. I'm talking about the existence of multiculturalism & not commenting on whether friction exists between the different cultures. You will always find friction in any society e.g. rich vs poor, christians vs catholics, in politics, ...

The movement of people from 3rd world to 1st world countries have been going on for decades.

I bring up Canada because I think they are doing a better job of integrating. They have more room & Canada is a new country. Many Canadians I've met are 2nd or 3rd generation, i.e. relatively immigrants from the US, Germany, Sweden, asia,.... etc

You are confusing race/ethnicity with culture. It is the same in NZ where many different skin colours have integrated into kiwi society. It worked in the past because immigrants were drip fed into kiwiland. The children became kiwis and now love, beer, rugby and BBQs regardless of whether they are black, brown or yellow.

However with the current trend of mass migration where hundreds of thousands arrive in one fell swoop the outcome is very different. They form their own enclaves, start their own schools, set up their own places of worship and live lives totally at odds with the system and values of the host country.

I wish I had your optimism but unfortunately I don't share your view of the world. I have seen first hand how things can come crashing down in a flash. All it takes is a small spark and all hell will break loose.
 

zeebjii

Alfrescian
Loyal
Watching the US elections & although its not yet over, the democrats have taken control of the house. Now that they have the "power" to do investigations, Trump is going to be in a lot of hurt. He'll probably have less time for golf holidays, less time to tweet, less time for watching TV, .....

Will Trump end up serving jail time?

You should read up more on the US political system before sprouting more nonsense.

Sorry to deliver the bad news- Trump wins again! Singapore needs our own Trump!

Trump: 'We’re going to win so much, you’re going to be so sick and tired of winning'
 

johnny333

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You are confusing race/ethnicity with culture. It is the same in NZ where many different skin colours have integrated into kiwi society. It worked in the past because immigrants were drip fed into kiwiland. The children became kiwis and now love, beer, rugby and BBQs regardless of whether they are black, brown or yellow.

However with the current trend of mass migration where hundreds of thousands arrive in one fell swoop the outcome is very different. They form their own enclaves, start their own schools, set up their own places of worship and live lives totally at odds with the system and values of the host country.

I wish I had your optimism but unfortunately I don't share your view of the world. I have seen first hand how things can come crashing down in a flash. All it takes is a small spark and all hell will break loose.


Here is how multiculturalism is defined in the dictionary that I googled:

multiculturalism
/ˌmʌltɪˈkʌltʃ(ə)r(ə)lɪz(ə)m/
noun
the presence of, or support for the presence of, several distinct cultural or ethnic groups within a society.

I'm using the label that is used to describe the situation that exists today in many societies. Some people may disagree & claim that it is not working. Even if you don't agree that it works, this is the labeled used to describe such societies.

I have my own opinions as how successful it is. There are many factors affecting the integration of societies e.g. time, distribution of wealth, population density, laws, ... etc.

I'm just commenting that multiculturism exists today & not whether or not it is successful. I've only actually lived long term in Spore & Canada & I find it is working in Canada.
 

whoami

Alfrescian (Inf)
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Take it from me that underneath this facade the majority of the Malays hate the other races. I experienced it firsthand when I was in a relationship with a Malay girl. The campaign they launched to break up the relationship was vicious.

80% sinkie larger cina dont trust the (only) small 15% minority Malays in Sinkieland. And u expect 65% Malays (only) in MALAYsia to trust the growing 30% cina?

Btw why are u considerating living in Penang? Applying for mm2h? So many hypocrites in this forum ya.:rolleyes::whistling:
 
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Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
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Knowing such, then why are u considerating living in Penang? Applying for mm2h? So many hypocrites in this forum ya.:rolleyes::whistling:

There's a good proportion of the Kiwi population who hate me too so what's the difference? :rolleyes:

I mind my own business and go about my own life and give scant regard to what others think.
 

johnny333

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Asset
You should read up more on the US political system before sprouting more nonsense.

Sorry to deliver the bad news- Trump wins again! Singapore needs our own Trump!

Trump: 'We’re going to win so much, you’re going to be so sick and tired of winning'


As a Sporeans we are taught very little about the outside world. As a Sporean it is more important that we know that LKY made Spore from a back water place to a 1st world country:biggrin:

I've toured the west of the US, visited Oregon, California, Nevada ... but have to admit to being ignorant about the history & culture. The only reason that I now tune in to the US TV is because of Trump. I find the Trump soap opera amazing. He is a racist & liar AND yet he was elected as president. He behaves like the Lee family in a so called democratic society where freedom of the press exists. It's like a reality TV show:tongue:
 

whoami

Alfrescian (Inf)
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There's a good proportion of the Kiwi population who hate me too so what's the difference? :rolleyes:

I mind my own business and go about my own life and give scant regard to what others think.

So many other non muslim countries to migrate. Why chose Msia..when u dont like the Malays, Islam? Wheres ur principle. Now i know why ur own race doesnt like u too. No wonder those 30% cina still stay put tere. Sucking alway Msia resources, welfare and benefits! And then come here kpkb they are being discriminated!:rolleyes: Guess i may have to make an appt with Tun or Anwar one of this day.:whistling:
 
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Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
I'm just commenting that multiculturism exists today & not whether or not it is successful. I've only actually lived long term in Spore & Canada & I find it is working in Canada.

If it is working in Canada then why would Quebec want to go it's own way? This issue has been simmering for ages. In 1995's referendum the "no" vote won by the skin of its teeth.

The divisions, unsurprisingly, are cultural and religious in nature despite the fact that both sides are as white as white can be.

This issue has never been put to bed and will continue to haunt Canada for a long time to come. If multiculturalism was so wonderful the Anglophiles and the Frenchies would be locked in loving embrace in appreciation of the "multicultural" nature of Canada. Instead they are suggesting divorce on a regular basis.

As I said earlier multiculturalism is far more than just a few Turbans in politics and some Burqas strolling anonymously down the streets. Cultures are by nature divisive and usually tend to tear a nation apart rather than bring it closer together.
 

whoami

Alfrescian (Inf)
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If it is working in Canada then why would Quebec want to go it's own way? This issue has been simmering for ages. In 1995's referendum the "no" vote won by the skin of its teeth.

Migrate to China or Burma lah. All same colour. Speak one language. And best of all esp for u...they dont like Islam!
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
So many other non muslim countries to migrate. Why chose Msia..when u dont like the Malays, Islam? Wheres ur principle. Now i know why ur own race doesnt like u too. No wonder those 30% cina still stay put tere. Sucking alway Msia resources, welfare and benefits! And then come here kpkb they are being discriminated!:rolleyes: Guess i many have to make an appt with Tun or Anwar one of this day.:whistling:

If I had a dislike for Malays I wouldn't have had a relationship with one for more than 2 years. I have nothing against Malays. In fact I like them a lot when it comes to day to day interactions. They are far more pleasant to deal with than any chinks.

However I'm pointing out that blood is thicker than water and that when it comes to the crunch the Malays as a whole will not be on the side of the Chinese.

If you want to understand how different cultures interact read the account of what happened to Yugoslavia after Tito. It is a graphic illustration of how things can turn on a dime.
 

whoami

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
If I had a dislike for Malays I wouldn't have had a relationship with one for more than 2 years. I have nothing against Malays. In fact I like them a lot when it comes to day to day interactions. They are far more pleasant to deal with than any chinks.

However I'm pointing out that blood is thicker than water and that when it comes to the crunch the Malays as a whole will not be on the side of the Chinese.

If you want to understand how different cultures interact read the account of what happened to Yugoslavia after Tito. It is a graphic illustration of how things can turn on a dime.

Look at how the Malays being treated in little china here? U tink they are fairly treated in terms of jobs opportunies way even before FTs floodgate being open?

So now can i also said the same that blood is also thicker than water when it comes to the crunch the Cina as a whole will not be on the side of the Malays?
 
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Leongsam

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Asset
So can i also said the same that blood is also thicker than water when it comes to the crunch the Cina as a whole will not be on the side of the Malays?

You can say whatever you like but you know as well as I do that the Chinks are never unified in their stance. The only thing all chinks have in common is the love of money and prestige. Chinks will be on the side that rewards them the most.
 

whoami

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You can say whatever you like but you know as well as I do that the Chinks are never unified in their stance. The only thing all chinks have in common is the love of money and prestige. Chinks will be on the side that rewards them the most.

Yes. But when issues regarding Malay/Islam, cina will bind together, unite as one, and suppress them.
 

whoami

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
You can say whatever you like but you know as well as I do that the Chinks are never unified in their stance. The only thing all chinks have in common is the love of money and prestige. Chinks will be on the side that rewards them the most.

Look at MALAYsia. They have cina generals in their Armed forces even during Tun time! U dont call tat trust? In Sinkieland, SAF, wat rank and appt they have for Malays in the SAF?

During the 70s or 80s....u can never find a single Malay working low paying jobs like clerk in those cina banks in Sinkieland. Meritocracy? Pui!:rolleyes: I havent even touch on other industries....
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
Yes. But when issues regarding Malay/Islam, cina will bind together, unite as one, and suppress them.

Most of the Cina Malaysians have run away. There are loads of them in Auckland, Perth, Sydney, Brisbane etc. The Chinks in W Malaysia used to be almost 40% of the population. Now it is down to around half that figure.

So much for your theory of "binding together". :rolleyes:
 

Hypocrite-The

Alfrescian
Loyal
Look at how the Malays being treated in little china here? U tink they are fairly treated in terms of jobs opportunies way even before FTs floodgate being open?

So now can i also said the same that blood is also thicker than water when it comes to the crunch the Cina as a whole will not be on the side of the Malays?


So what? Why treat the m&ds fairly? If its the reverse,,,the m&ds will do to the Cinas 10 times worse than what the so called 'discrimination' the m&ds face in singkieland. If got no discrimination, Makcik would not have been president,,,,Janil would not be MP etc,.....Look at Mudland now,,,how the m&ds are discriminating against the Cinas,,,,,want even halal water,,,,look at indonland,,,,halal makan is gaining prominence,,,,if singkieland soo bad to the m&ds,,,they should go back to Mudland,,,singkieland was given to the cinas by the Johor Sultan,,,not happy go hantam the Sultan,,dont come and KPKB here about m&ds being discriminated. if the m&ds soo good,,,mudland will still be secular,,,the hypocrisy of the m&ds is amazing
 

Hypocrite-The

Alfrescian
Loyal
Look at MALAYsia. They have cina generals in their Armed forces even during Tun time! U dont call tat trust? In Sinkieland, SAF, wat rank and appt they have for Malays in the SAF?

During the 70s or 80s....u can never find a single Malay working low paying jobs like clerk in those cina banks in Sinkieland. Meritocracy? Pui!:rolleyes: I havent even touch on other industries....
wat about now? Why complain when mudslimes are more discriminatory? Now got Cina general in mudland armed forces? got Cina police man? If u are soo good as u claim to be,,,go tell mudslimes to abolish their halal demands....tell mudland gahmen to treat all its races fairly,,,,BS m&ds sprouting crap

Malays on the marchRace-based affirmative action is failing poor Malaysians
The government reserves even mobile-phone stalls for people of indigenous descent

20170520_ASP001_0.jpg

Print edition | Asia
May 18th 2017| KUALA LUMPUR
THERE is something odd about MARA Digital, a cluster of stalls selling laptops, mobiles and other gizmos on the second floor of a shopping centre in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia’s multicultural capital. No ethnic-Chinese or -Indian entrepreneurs are allowed to do business here. Spots in the market are reserved for Malays, the country’s majority race. The year-old venue was set up with subsidies from the government, which insists that its experiment in segregated shop-holding has been a big success. It has already launched an offshoot in Shah Alam, a nearby city, and talks of opening at least five more branches this year.
This project is just one recent outcome of racially discriminatory policies which have shaped Malaysian society for more than 50 years. Schemes favouring Malays were once deemed essential to improve the lot of Malaysia’s least wealthy racial group; these days they are widely thought to help mostly the well-off within that group, while failing the poor and aggravating ethnic tensions. Yet affirmative action persists because it is a reliable vote-winner for the United Malays National Organisation (UMNO), the Malay party that has dominated government since independence. Malays are more than half of the population, so their views carry weight.

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Last month UMNO launched a fresh batch of race-based giveaways. Harried by claims that it allowed billions to be looted from 1MDB, a state investment firm, and preparing for an election that may be called this year, the party looks disinclined to consider reform.
Affirmative action in Malaysia began shortly after the departure in the 1950s of British colonial administrators, who had opened the cities to immigrant merchants and labourers from India and China but largely preferred to keep Malays toiling in the fields. The practice accelerated after 1969, when a race riot in the capital killed scores. (Most of the victims were Chinese.) The New Economic Policy (NEP) of 1971 had two goals: to reduce absolute poverty across all races, and to boost in particular the prospects of Malays, whose average income at the time was roughly half that of their Chinese compatriots.
A temporary eternity
Although the NEP’s authors believed affirmative action would be needed for only 20 years, the practice has continued ever since, as such “temporary” policies typically have in other countries. Malaysia’s bumiputeras, which means “sons of the soil” and which refers both to Malays and to a number of indigenous groups deemed deserving of a leg-up, have accumulated a panoply of privileges. Some of these are enshrined in legislation; others are left unwritten. These include quotas for places at public universities; preferment for government jobs; discounts on property purchases and access to a reserved slice of public share offerings.
Since the NEP’s inception Malaysia’s economy has grown enormously. Its people are now the third-richest in South-East Asia, behind only Singapore and oil-soaked Brunei. Affirmative action has helped to narrow the difference between the incomes of Malays and other races. But pro-bumiputera schemes are almost never means-tested, so their benefits have accrued disproportionately to already wealthy urbanites, allowing poverty among the neediest Malays to persist.
Meanwhile the lure of the public sector—which was expanded to create more posts for bumiputeras, and in which Malays are now vastly over-represented—has sapped entrepreneurial vigour among Malays, as has a welter of grants and soft loans for bumiputera firms. Race-based entry criteria have lowered standards at Malaysia’s public universities; so has the flight of non-bumiputera academics who sense that promotions are no longer linked to merit. These days Chinese and Indians largely end up studying in private institutions or abroad, in effect segregating tertiary education. Many of those who leave the country do not return.
None of this is lost on the ruling party. For some years UMNO was split between hardline supporters of affirmative action (like the demonstrators pictured above) and moderates dismayed by the distortions it has brought. In an unusually candid paper published in 2010, the new government of Najib Razak, the prime minister, admitted that affirmative action had created an “entitlement culture and rentier behaviour”. It mooted swapping race-based policies for action intended to lift the incomes of Malaysia’s poorest 40%, regardless of ethnicity. Yet within months that suggestion was quietly abandoned.
Since then the party’s thinkers have grown more risk-averse. UMNO almost fell from power at a general election in 2013, when minority voters abandoned its coalition partners. Since early 2015 it has been trying to distract attention from the theft of billions of dollars from 1MDB (American investigators allege that $681m of the state firm’s money was paid to the prime minister, a charge Mr Najib denies). Neither of these near-death experiences appears to have prompted much soul-searching. Instead the party is trying to preserve support among Malay voters by reinforcing pro-Malay policies and by building bridges with PAS, an Islamist opposition party that is growing more extreme.
Optimists argue that the government has not completely abandoned reform. An efficiency drive has called attention to the public sector’s bloated state, even if the material gains from the effort are unclear. And whereas UMNO’s leaders once boasted of their desire to create Malay millionaires, recent schemes are more likely to aid small and medium-sized firms. But this is all rather modest—particularly when ugly racial rhetoric is on the rise.
Malaysia’s failing system of race-based preferences will probably not attract the criticism it deserves in the run-up to the next general election, which Mr Najib may call later this year and which he is likely to win. Opposition parties are keen to show poor rural Malays that UMNO’s policies have shortchanged them, but tend not to openly bash the notion of race-based affirmative action. Egged on by bigots, some Malays have come to see their economic privileges as a right earned by their ancestors when they first settled the territory, not as a temporary leg-up. Meritocracy and the distribution of benefits based on need remain distant prospects.
This article appeared in the Asia section of the print edition under the headline "Malays on the march"
 
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