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Lanjiao Loong adopts advice from Mathematician

Cottonmouth

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Po-Shen Loh
Dear PM Lee, I'm the mathematician you communicated with on Facebook about 2 years ago, when you posted the simpler way of solving quadratic equations that I found. I'm a Carnegie Mellon math professor and the National Coach of the USA Math Olympiad team, and a Combinatorialist by training. Over the last year, I have invented a new approach to controlling pandemics, powered by Game Theory and Graph Theory. I think it would be particularly powerful in the Singaporean context (based upon my understanding of culture from my parents, who grew up in Singapore). I would love to work with you and Singapore on this new category of tool.

It is fundamentally different from contact tracing, and is based upon aligning incentives so that even selfish behavior contributes to pandemic control. I would love to speak with you about this if you are interested, because I am sure that with your mathematical background, you would grasp it immediately, and see how it brings more power than other approaches used thus far.

The key concept starts off quite simple. It is a smartphone app that helps the app user directly reduce their own chance of getting infected, by telling them the graph-theoretic distance between each new positive case and them. (In contrast, standard apps are designed to make the app user not infect other people.) This is radar, but for pandemics, against the metric space of graph-theoretic distance. Its messages can be communicated in plain language: "someone just tested positive, and they frequently spend time with someone who frequently spends time with someone who frequently spends time with you." (Distance 3.) However, the breakthrough is that by showing people how this graph-theoretic distance changes over time (just like radar), each individual person (who seeks to avoid infection) naturally raises their guard as the infection strikes nearer and nearer.

This is a completely different mechanism than contact tracing. Standard contact tracing is top-down, and by the time it involves an individual, they are asked to take actions to protect everyone else from them. Our approach works bottom-up (analogously to a free market economy instead of a command economy): the individual is empowered to protect themself from everyone else.

This system could help maintain economic and border activity, by making each individual resident more resistant to getting infected, so that even if cases enter the country, they are less able to spread.

I've been discussing this concept with many scientists over the past year. The technical paper describing the theoretical foundation of the concept is at https://arxiv.org/pdf/2010.03806.pdf, and it has even been implemented into an app (www.novid.org), although it would be a pleasure and an honor to work with your government's app as well. The scientific community has been receptive as well. Surprisingly, this is an entirely new mechanism for pandemic control, even though it is so simple in retrospect.

Lee Hsien Lanjiao Loong
Thanks for sharing your interesting idea! I've passed this to the team at GovTech to take a closer look. Hope you are keeping well. – LJL
 

zhihau

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early warning devices are good, but benefits totally negated when you’re caught thick in the action, i.e, kena infection unknowingly when an asymptomatic carrier passes you the virus.
 

syed putra

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You need to fit a device linked to smartphone for this to work. Check smartphone when alarm go off or lights starts to blink.
Anyway its too late as the pandemic is near its end. Countries are opening up. Vaccine is the way forward.
 

UltimaOnline

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1632647548022.png


Po-Shen Loh
Dear PM Lee, I'm the mathematician you communicated with on Facebook about 2 years ago, when you posted the simpler way of solving quadratic equations that I found. I'm a Carnegie Mellon math professor and the National Coach of the USA Math Olympiad team, and a Combinatorialist by training. Over the last year, I have invented a new approach to controlling pandemics, powered by Game Theory and Graph Theory. I think it would be particularly powerful in the Singaporean context (based upon my understanding of culture from my parents, who grew up in Singapore). I would love to work with you and Singapore on this new category of tool.
It is fundamentally different from contact tracing, and is based upon aligning incentives so that even selfish behavior contributes to pandemic control. I would love to speak with you about this if you are interested, because I am sure that with your mathematical background, you would grasp it immediately, and see how it brings more power than other approaches used thus far.
The key concept starts off quite simple. It is a smartphone app that helps the app user directly reduce their own chance of getting infected, by telling them the graph-theoretic distance between each new positive case and them. (In contrast, standard apps are designed to make the app user not infect other people.) This is radar, but for pandemics, against the metric space of graph-theoretic distance. Its messages can be communicated in plain language: "someone just tested positive, and they frequently spend time with someone who frequently spends time with someone who frequently spends time with you." (Distance 3.) However, the breakthrough is that by showing people how this graph-theoretic distance changes over time (just like radar), each individual person (who seeks to avoid infection) naturally raises their guard as the infection strikes nearer and nearer.
This is a completely different mechanism than contact tracing. Standard contact tracing is top-down, and by the time it involves an individual, they are asked to take actions to protect everyone else from them. Our approach works bottom-up (analogously to a free market economy instead of a command economy): the individual is empowered to protect themself from everyone else.
This system could help maintain economic and border activity, by making each individual resident more resistant to getting infected, so that even if cases enter the country, they are less able to spread.
I've been discussing this concept with many scientists over the past year. The technical paper describing the theoretical foundation of the concept is at https://arxiv.org/pdf/2010.03806.pdf, and it has even been implemented into an app (www.novid.org), although it would be a pleasure and an honor to work with your government's app as well. The scientific community has been receptive as well. Surprisingly, this is an entirely new mechanism for pandemic control, even though it is so simple in retrospect.

Lee Hsien Loong
Thanks for sharing your interesting idea! I've passed this to the team at GovTech to take a closer look. Hope you are keeping well. – LHL


https://forums.fuckwarezone.com.sg/...he-pandemic-govtech-is-taking-a-look.6607645/
 

UltimaOnline

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l 4
tindifferent

·36m·edited 15m

2 key reasons: resources and privacy. but mostly just privacy.
  1. it is fairly resource-intensive to centrally contact-trace and issue/enforce QOs/HRWs/HRAs. each subsequent degree of contact tracing (i.e. notifying close contacts of close contacts and so on) requires exponentially more resources.
  2. the key technical difference in his implementation / how novid works is the use of a persistent UUID i.e. permanent identifier per user, as opposed to a constantly-changing UUID in EN/TT:
Taking some liberties in explanation:
How EN works:
Imagine if you have a new (unique and non-repeating) colour of card every day, and you exchange cards with everyone you meet. The card has no other information but the duration and proximity of your interaction, so people can't really identify you based on the card. You keep a trailing record of your own card colour, and throw away any cards you received that are more than 14 days old. If you test positive, someone will ask you if it's okay to let everyone know what colour cards you have been handing out for the past 14 days. Other people check to see if they have any cards of that colour from the past 14 days, and if yes receive advice based on the information on the card.

How TT works (briefly)
Same as above, but if you test positive, someone comes and takes all the cards you have collected on the past 14 days, matches card colours to phone numbers / other personal info and top-down contacts them and issues QO etc. Before you test positive the authority doesn't know what cards you have, but kind of sort of know everyone's daily colour (they decide what colour your daily cards are)

How NOVID works:
Everybody has a unique, non changing business card. The app keeps track of a list of close contacts. When you test positive it calls all of them and tells them they are a close contact (but it doesn't say who). Each close contact calls everyone on their list and tells them they are a close contact of a close contact, and so on. If there a central database with all the data, anyone can map out all users social interactions.

Also with NOVID, you will never be more than Distance 6 away from COVID (six degrees of separation). You will probably be D-3 most times (you know someone who knows someone who knows someone who is a recent close contact). Unlikely that anyone will know the appropriate measures to take based on distance.

Theoretically very nice, but operationally I have my doubts.
Always preferred EN, because it's compatible at scale (i.e. worldwide) and I suspect it will be the go-to for the next pandemic


 

mudhatter

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Mathematicians in here means applied mathematicians more like it

Discrete mathematics like combinatorics or graph theory not particularly complicated

i guess they find quite some use in computer science for a good number of algorithms

why might this algorithm be better suited to stinkypura rather than any other country?

even stinkypura so called talent also not on par
lupsup as hongkies would say?
 

eatshitndie

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lol if any of them can trace asymptomatic transmission i chop :laugh::laugh:
over time it may actually work if asymptomatic cases lead to symptomatic cases that are tested positive. in theory, it’s more efficient than contact tracing. in practice, it may even be more effective. brilliant!
 

zhihau

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over time it may actually work if asymptomatic cases lead to symptomatic cases that are tested positive. in theory, it’s more efficient than contact tracing. in practice, it may even be more effective. brilliant!
so what do we do with that asymptomatic chap who had long recovered?
 

eatshitndie

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so what do we do with that asymptomatic chap who had long recovered?
recovery doesn’t mean zero virus. heshe may still be shedding either attenuated or dead viruses and typically residual rna decays with very short lifespans, but when snippets of the virus gets into the human genome, it may yield positive test results. this virus is not a retrovirus, but thru’ reverse transcription, it can get into the human genome.
https://wi.mit.edu/news/new-researc...ay-test-positive-covid-19-long-after-recovery
 
Last edited:

zhihau

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recovery doesn’t mean zero virus. heshe may still be shedding either attenuated or dead viruses, which may yield positive test results.
That is true, attenuated viral particles. maybe can take their blood for research purposes too!

PS: jury is still out there debating if viruses are living or non-living things.
 

eatshitndie

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That is true, attenuated viral particles. maybe can take their blood for research purposes too!

PS: jury is still out there debating if viruses are living or non-living things.
there are also snippets of viruses in your dna via reverse transcription over the course of your multiple infections by viruses. they can produce positive test results designed for those specific viruses. in fact, at least 6.9% of your dna contain fragments of ancient viruses. some of them are retroviruses which rely on your dna to replicate and some of them are not, such as the prc virus.
 

eatshitndie

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So it's something like Pokemon Go.
it can turn into a “walking dead” or zombie game where one can run away from clusters of blood sucking zombies and hide in “safe zones” where chiobus with tua liao nehs nehs and big shotguns reside.
 

spinn

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you said it, needs a symptomatic transmission to break the chain. by that time how far down the line has the transmission being going on ??

98% of breakthru infections hv little or no sympton of which 80% r asymptomaitc. over 80% of the pop r now vax means that a high proportion of those infected r asymptomatic which is why as the figures r shooting up. and 3 dead a day. compare this with b4 vax ??

with home recovery n 80% of pop living in hdb what do you think will happen ??

over time it may actually work if asymptomatic cases lead to symptomatic cases that are tested positive. in theory, it’s more efficient than contact tracing. in practice, it may even be more effective. brilliant!
 

eatshitndie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
you said it, needs a symptomatic transmission to break the chain. by that time how far down the line has the transmission being going on ??

98% of breakthru infections hv little or no sympton of which 80% r asymptomaitc. over 80% of the pop r now vax means that a high proportion of those infected r asymptomatic which is why as the figures r shooting up. and 3 dead a day. compare this with b4 vax ??

with home recovery n 80% of pop living in hdb what do you think will happen ??
it means herd immunity is around the corner when more are infected but do not die as their collective natural immunity kicks in, which should be the ultimate objective of fighting the virus.
 
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