ISA Debate - Another round?

[Ramseth]

Deng Xiaoping visit to Istana 1978...

DXP : Yuck...puu...

LKY : Wait wait, hold on...(turning to the Aide) Go get a spittoon.

(It came in no time and...) DXP : Pui! (whipping out a Chinese unfiltered ciggie).

Aide (to DXP) : Sorry sir, there's no smoking in the Istana...

DXP : 这只疯狗在吠些什么？

LKY (to the Aide) : You idiot, get a lighter to light up for Mr. Deng and go get a proper ashtay too!

 

[scroobal]

Its not a straight forward as that. Detention without trial is a useful instrument to protect society at large. It can also be abused in the wrong hands and there is where the checks and balances come in. Old man had abused when he dragged the detention to for such long stretches. The Malaysians did not drag it anywhere close as old man did but the Malaysians used it too often and on too many people over the years. The Malaysians also used it for local political adversaries.

This is the part that MHA connected them.



To me, I find the link tenuous. Deng Xiao Peng visited S'pore in 1978 and met with Lee where among many things discussed, was the CPM radio broadcasts which Lee claimed still championed armed struggle. Deng promised to look into it on his return and they were stopped.

Also, by the 1980s, many CPM cadres in Malaysia were already run road, since the British Briggs Plan practically broke the backbone of the armed wing, and in 1957 in fact, most of Malaya was considered cleared of the armed CPM militia control, so I don't believe the CPM was in a state to rebuild their open front again when the HQ was in tatters.

Lee simply was frightened by his own shadows and was shooting at anything that moved and looked like open front activities. It was true that at the time, the North Vietnamese had defeated the Americans after a huge war and Lee feared the worst from the Vietnamese north more than the Chinese with whom he had made truce. This made him more jittery. In truth, the church workers were propelled by a movement fashionable at the time in the Philippines then led by Catholic priests agitating for political ends, not nec communism's (Marcos' dictatorship was overthrown by People Power revolution backed by the catholic church). These social workers were caught in a crossfire between Lee and the Catholic fathers behind them. The Communist open front excuse was a very convenient excuse to use the ISA because Lee knew that the people would believe him more than if he had taken on the Catholic faith.

 

[kingrant]

I expected that you would have more to say than this. For the sake of the younger forummers here, this is a lesson in history. Care to divulge more intrigue? After all, I dont think you started this thread just to reprint some statements?!There was a Juliet Chin who was involved with the radio broadcast, I think. There were also 2 catholic priests who were deported. Archbishop Gregory Young was also summoned to the Istana and browbeaten.

Its not a straight forward as that. Detention without trial is a useful instrument to protect society at large. It can also be abused in the wrong hands and there is where the checks and balances come in. Old man had abused when he dragged the detention to for such long stretches. The Malaysians did not drag it anywhere close as old man did but the Malaysians used it too often and on too many people over the years. The Malaysians also used it for local political adversaries.

 

[scroobal]

Bro, point taken.

I will use some real life cases rather than go thru abstract narratives which can be confusing. Will start a new thread - Akan Datang.

I expected that you would have more to say than this. For the sake of the younger forummers here, this is a lesson in history. Care to divulge more intrigue? After all, I dont think you started this thread just to reprint some statements?!There was a Juliet Chin who was involved with the radio broadcast, I think. There were also 2 catholic priests who were deported. Archbishop Gregory Young was also summoned to the Istana and browbeaten.

 

[Fook Seng]

Better than innocents getting shot with smuggled firearms. Despite the tight firearms control in Singapore, some gangsters or robbers somehow still popped up firearms sometimes. If your friend is properly procedurally detained for questioning to facilitate investigation and co-operated, I don't see what's the problem.

Exactly. Having such a powerful tool is like having a firearm. If you are not careful in its use, you can misfire and injure an innocent by-stander. We have to start examining the system as nobody is perfect and misfire can take place. We know the ruling party had made several mistakes in the past, some very serious ones e.g. 2-child family, housing policy which needs the next 4 to 5 years to unravel, investment disasters in recent years etc etc.

 

[captainxerox]

Exactly. Having such a powerful tool is like having a firearm. If you are not careful in its use, you can misfire and injure an innocent by-stander. We have to start examining the system as nobody is perfect and misfire can take place. We know the ruling party had made several mistakes in the past, some very serious ones e.g. 2-child family, housing policy which needs the next 4 to 5 years to unravel, investment disasters in recent years etc etc.

and with the firearm analogy, it is not the firearm that is the problem, it is the people who use it. so isa per se is not a problem, it is who might abuse it. isa is fine as long as not abused. even illegal hawking law was used and abused by pap before when they fined jbj i think for selling his books!

 

[Fook Seng]

and with the firearm analogy, it is not the firearm that is the problem, it is the people who use it. so isa per se is not a problem, it is who might abuse it. isa is fine as long as not abused. even illegal hawking law was used and abused by pap before when they fined jbj i think for selling his books![/

So in order to ensure that the firearm do not fall into the wrong hands, we should get rid of the firearm. The law says if you possess firearms or use one you can land yourself in serious trouble with the law so keeping firearms is a serious problem. Get rid of it.

 

[da dick]

The 1989 tripartite peace agreement only sign by Malaysian , Thailand and MCP . So Communists can still illegals in Singapore .


...
Why leh?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9f9DDo2Aspk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

why? why am i still seeing ah tiongs everywhere? cocksucking turncoat hypocrites.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

You confessed already. 不打自招。You were involved in beating them up. :oIo:

Now then you know?

Goh Meng Seng

 

[liongsum]

This is the part that MHA connected them.
Lee simply was frightened by his own shadows and was shooting at anything that moved and looked like open front activities. ... These social workers were caught in a crossfire between Lee and the Catholic fathers behind them. The Communist open front excuse was a very convenient excuse to use the ISA because Lee knew that the people would believe him more than if he had taken on the Catholic faith.

... especially after it deveoped into ... God, punish the PAP. Such incantations is too powerful to ignore.

 

[yellowarse]

To me, I find the link tenuous.

It is. The ISA has been abused for political ends by old fart for decades and with the declassification of some of the Kew archives, more facts are coming to light. Check out Michael Barr's latest work:

Marxists in Singapore?

Abstract

Singapore's ruling elite runs a finely calibrated system of social and political control based on a mixture of monitoring and repression by the state, and self-monitoring and self-restraint by all elements of civil society. This system matured under Goh Chok Tong's premiership in the 1990s but its template was created by Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew in the final years of his premiership with his handling of a fresh upsurge of social justice activism and dissent that was becoming increasingly brave. In response to these challenges he created a fanciful narrative about a “Marxist conspiracy” to overthrow the state and centered the main force of his allegations on a group of activists who were associated with the local Catholic Church. He accused them of being Marxists who had been subverted by the teachings of liberation theology and used the Internal Security Act to detain them and destroy their rather modest and innocent operations; their treatment provided both an exemplar to other groups and a model for the next generation of the ruling elite to follow. This article uses archival, oral, and secondary sources to build an account of these events with a particular focus on the motivations and activities of this group of Catholics and the motivations of the government—which essentially means the motivations of Lee Kuan Yew.

 

[@rmadill0]

Its not a straight forward as that. Detention without trial is a useful instrument to protect society at large. It can also be abused in the wrong hands and there is where the checks and balances come in. Old man had abused when he dragged the detention to for such long stretches. The Malaysians did not drag it anywhere close as old man did but the Malaysians used it too often and on too many people over the years. The Malaysians also used it for local political adversaries.

If we are to look at recent events, it is clear that the Malaysians have no use for ISA anymore. To take care of political adversaries, they use sodomy charges. To take care of person whom they do not want to see anymore, they use TNT.

ISA? To them is just too meek a piece of legislation to be useful.