Is MM Lee redundant?

[IR123]

There was a small section in Saturday's Straits Times whereby someone queried if MM Lee is redundant? The disingenous answer given by a PAP leader was that if the voters feel this way, then they should vote him out in the elections.


Let's take it objectively, or less subjectively.

When you have a Prime Minister, why do you need a Senior Minister or a Minister Mentor?

By definition, the buck stops at the Prime Minister.

In that sense, the post of Minister Mentor or Senior Minister is redundant.



Singapore's politics appears to lie in the encouragement of unworthy opposition.

That this is indeed the case lies in the acumen of MM Lee.

If we can assume that the purpose of a political party is to stay in power, then MM Lee has achieved this purpose admirably as the PAP has been in power since independence.

Thus going by the purpose of a political party, MM Lee is certainly not redundant as his role as goalkeeper keeps off worthy opponents even as the party's strikers missed the open goalpost.



However the question was directed at MM Lee's role in the Government - is he redundant?

Given that the PAP makes up the Singapore Government (because the seats of power in each Ministry are held by PAP appointees), then the sustainance of the Singapore Government as it is in the past and present, lies in the existence of MM Lee (assumption).

But the pursuit of this argument creates its own problem because it leads to the question - in which aspect of the Singapore Government does MM Lee creates value? Some will point to the government website where the roles and duties of the MM are clearly spelt out.


Doubtless as in all opinions, there will be some who disagree and given the different perspectives, all may well be right.

Speaking for myself, I am happier to have MM Lee around.

 

[scroobal]

Kor Kian Beng spoke for thousands when he told the old man to step down from cabinet. Old man thought that he misheard and asked again and he was told the same thing.

 

[po2wq]

... MM Lee is redundant? The disingenous answer given by a PAP leader was that if the voters feel this way, then they should vote him out in the elections. ...

dun tok rots la ...

even if ppl vote him out in ze erections, u tink he cannot b mm meh? ...

wel, mayb he cannot ... but ...

he wil simply b given another title ...

change soup wun change medicine! ...

 

[Brightkid]

......

When you have a Prime Minister, why do you need a Senior Minister or a Minister Mentor?

By definition, the buck stops at the Prime Minister.

In that sense, the post of Minister Mentor or Senior Minister is redundant.
..............

Speaking for myself, I am happier to have MM Lee around.

Many would be in agreement with your above first para. What has he done as a MM beised going to other countries and putting his hands into other people's business ?

I have no concern with what he is doing with other countries, happy or not. Actually I don't even care. However, I am not ok with him taking a huge salary while doing that to beef up his personal presence and not bring value to singapore, beside telling the Singaporeeans to put a spur in their hide.

 

[Highfalutin]

We just have to wait for one of these guys to do the job.:(

 

[jacobsgoh]

dun tok rots la ...

even if ppl vote him out in ze erections, u tink he cannot b mm meh? ...

wel, mayb he cannot ... but ...

he wil simply b given another title ...

change soup wun change medicine! ...

must agree with you, lky's pap group is very well organized, if ever its founder[or any of lky's leelatives] be voted out of the front door, he'll be re-admitted throuh the back window[same like the PM 'ProxyMinister'].

 

[kingrant]

Can't the Old fart just dispense his unwanted advice without being paid?

After all, he is the one who thinks that people needs his advice, and if he wants to give it, he should give it FOC. No need to for us to pick up the tab for his pay.

Look at Mahathir Mohd. When he wants to give advice, he just dishes it out, no holds barred, FOC.

PMs who need MMs and SMs are telling the world they are less than capable.

At the end of the day, what's a piece of free fatherly advice every evening over dinner? Every good father ought to give it, not charge it! And even the recipient does not have to pay for it; we do!

 

[IR123]

dun tok rots la ...

even if ppl vote him out in ze erections, u tink he cannot b mm meh? ...

wel, mayb he cannot ... but ...

he wil simply b given another title ...

change soup wun change medicine! ...

That was what i thought too

Maybe a new post, new title


And if that suggestion turn out bad, new PAP leader

 

[IR123]

Can't the Old fart just dispense his unwanted advice without being paid?

That is correct. The public should not be expected to pay for the PM's kitchen cabinet.

However an official post carries current power.

The question is therefore: is such power neccessary?

 

[IR123]

... beside telling the Singaporeeans to put a spur in their hide.

i thought that was quite tactless of him

even more worrying is if he has the perception that singaporeans are lazy


if his perception is indeed that, the same judgement should also be applied to some of the current PAP leaders

 

[pia]

Is Lee Hsien Loong redundant? Is Goh Chok Tong redundant? IN fact, ask how many of the $million ministars are redundant?

 

[no_faith]

vote him out? waiting long long lah

 

[IR123]

Is Lee Hsien Loong redundant? Is Goh Chok Tong redundant? IN fact, ask how many of the $million ministars are redundant?

Lee Hsien Loong, being the Prime Minister, is definitely not redundant

Perhaps some of the other ministers can be gotten cheaply if sourced from abroad

There should be foreigners around who are willing to work for less and with greater proven competence in their own countries, like Dr Mathatir for the Minister for the Arts

 

[Getloud]

'Lee Hsien Loong, being the Prime Minister, is definitely not redundant'

Try taking him out and replace him with any Tom, Dick and Harry, or best of all, no need to replace him, and see whether he is indeed redundant.
The system will still function with his father around.

 

[IR123]

'Lee Hsien Loong, being the Prime Minister, is definitely not redundant'

Try taking him out and replace him with any Tom, Dick and Harry, or best of all, no need to replace him, and see whether he is indeed redundant.
The system will still function with his father around.

I am not certain about that.

A country is defined by the vision of the Prime Minister.

From what i understand, based on the Prime Minister's actions, it is to bring in more foreign talent, boost up the declining population rate, make it a haven for the rich with diversions suited for them. Medical and education inflation had gone up under him. Disastrous investments were made. CPF is truly no longer yours or if you want to argue about, less yours than under PM LKY.

So the system function under the Prime Minister and not the Minister Mentor. This will be patently obvious if you compare the difference in achievements and focus under the two different Prime Ministers. Do not focus on the economic climate but on the underlying factors of compassion, pride in their own countrymen and the building of a nation made up of selfish individuals.

I did do a scenario placing LTK or CST in place of LHL. You try that and if you still think any LTK or CST can do the job of LHL, we will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[elephanto]

Can't the Old fart just dispense his unwanted advice without being paid?
.......
And even the recipient does not have to pay for it; we do!

That's the crux of it.

Old Man doesn't NEED the money, but there is this school of thought inspired by vanity but supercillously couched as 'The salary is more to denote the value of contribution / worth of the person'.

He should put into practice the tenet that no man is indispensable.

It stuns me sometimes to realise after his erstwhile colleagues (like Toh Chin Chye & Rajaratnam) retire in 1988 in the name of leadership renewal, 22 years later octogenerian LKY still sees himself as the Special One deserving of immortality i.e. lifetime membership in Parliament c/o Tg Pagar GRC STRANGLEHOLD.

 

[SneeringTree]

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

 

[myfoot123]

They can give whatever name they want to remain in the party and draws obscene salary. From PM to SM than to MM is really a joke. In future they might created GM (grand mentor) to keep the person for as long as he lives. This is sick and a waste of taxpayers money.

To LKY. Do not call netizens as champion grumblers when your greed and corruptions are equally champion.

 

[Getloud]

Well, no one knows whether the existing visions came from PM himself or his father. But one thing is for sure, it didn't really benefit the common people.
As for LTK or CST, unless they are put in the PM position, we will never know how good or bad they will be. But in my own opinion and observation, they will bring more benefits to the common people than the elites.

 

[IR123]

As for LTK or CST, unless they are put in the PM position, we will never know how good or bad they will be.

That sort of argument is not entirely correct.

You can gauge a person's capability by how they performed in small things, faced small issues.

For example, if a person placed his wife into positions of small power because that is where his power extends currently, then you can be reasonably sure he will place her in higher positions of power when his own gets bigger.

For example, if he is a cautious unimaginative man who cannot develop a strategic approach, then you can be reasonably sure that the bigger pressures will cause him a mental breakdown.

For example, if a person committed a wrong and deny it vehemently until someone show him a video of him doing it, then you can be reasonably sure that he will continue this practice when it is advantageous for him to do so.


Thus in order to conclude with a reasonable sense that LTK and CST is able to do the job, you need to work with them to see if there are any prime ministerial qualities in them.

Perhaps those who work with them can comment on their prime ministerial capabilities demonstrated within their own party.