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Is LKY really that good?

gone4good

Alfrescian
Loyal
I am getting tired of LKY keep on harping on how brilliant he is at getting Singapore where she is today but somehow i think this old man is letting it getting into his head. Okay, i do not deny Singapore is pretty successful in many ways but only in areas where it can be measured, like best airport, port for some years, increasing GDP, continued growth etc. But in recent years, we are beginning to see it falling apart. We failed miserably in creating a sense of national identity.

What LKY did was pretty predictable or i would say most men of average intelligence will be able to guide Singapore to where she is today. looking back at the 60s when we just gained independence, you dun need to be a Harvard or Oxford scholar to decide on how you want Singapore to progress. In fact, it is pretty straight forward, we are a developing country and with so many previous examples(cities) for us to learn from and guide us, it is pretty evident that we should focus on manufacturing, attracting MNCs, DFI etc. Which man of average IQ would not choose this move to progress a country. While i agree that we have no natural resources, our strength lies in the new citizens with an extremely strong desire to do their best for the new country and not let our neighbours look down on us. This burning desire to do well simply makes LKY job to lead the country much easier. The fact that we are small also made it much easier to govern and control so things cannot go too far wrong. With all these taken into consideration, really why does LKY thinks he has created a miracle. I believed any other leaders would be able to do the same and even surpassing him. It is like managing a class and controlling a school. It is so much easier to control a class rather than a school. If LKY will to control something bigger, i suspect he may failed miserably esp with his inflated ego at work. He would have been killed off in his political careers in China or some other bigger countries.

I am approaching 40s and had served NS and currently now based in China and seriously i am enjoying life here. Singaporeans really need to travel out of the red dot and see for themselves how big this world is. I was proud to be a Singaporean in the 80s, 90s but in the last 10 years, i would not say the same. I am one of the 66.6% who have been supporting PAP since i was old enough to vote. I voted for opposition in the last election and will continue to vote them in the coming election (hopefully someone of reasonable quality will contest) if PAP still thinks that what they are doing in the past few years are correct.

We must remember, it is not them who have the rights to govern us, the citizens. It is US who gave them the rights. If they abuse it and think it is a privilege, then they are in for some shock soon.
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Great post bro. Singaporeans are generally reticent when it comes making their voices heard on matters of politics and the PAP. As a result, the PAP, the old man and many others have assumed that we are happy with the way that this country is governed.

Many were delighted with the progress of the country in the few decades but it has been dismal since 1988 when CPG reached 25% and began a progressive slide and now CPF is no longer a concern as much as holding on to a decent job. Nationhood is no longer in the works, its survival of the fittest. And citizenship alone does not provide protection, respect or the rights associated with any other country in the developed world.

Keep the views and opinions coming. Let the PAP and the old man know that all is not well.
 

gone4good

Alfrescian
Loyal
Yes, we need to make ourselves heard. I must admit i am pro PAP in the early days and seriously, i think they are doing a good job. I would not say great but at least they improve the standard of living for us. Slowly, things took an ugly turn and now seeing the way the country is run...it is a joke. We are one of the smallest countries in the world and yet this tiny island is divided into so many pieces (constituency) to govern and the pay is obscene. Our govt is really a fat sheep as what some of my friends would call them. Once you trim off the fur lies the tiny bony body beneath it and this is what we should be asking our govt to do. Start trimming off the excess fats and be more efficient. There are just too many passengers now in the governing body, be it in civil services or political bodies. We know some of them cannot make it but somehow they are up there enjoying the perks because of WHO they know and not because of what they can do.

Over here in China, they are amazed at the amount we are paying to maintain our govt and how our small island is run as if it is some gigantic country. Our size is not even comparable to their estate or a small district in a City. They would laugh at us and then always draw inferences that Singapore is just like a class in a school only which is easy to control but somehow the form teacher try to be smart and instead of appointing only a monitor to assist him, he elected monitors for every sitting row/section in a class to ensure that things go smoothly. In this manner efficiency/effectiveness are compromised unknowingly

Great post bro. Singaporeans are generally reticent when it comes making their voices heard on matters of politics and the PAP. As a result, the PAP, the old man and many others have assumed that we are happy with the way that this country is governed.

Many were delighted with the progress of the country in the few decades but it has been dismal since 1988 when CPG reached 25% and began a progressive slide and now CPF is no longer a concern as much as holding on to a decent job. Nationhood is no longer in the works, its survival of the fittest. And citizenship alone does not provide protection, respect or the rights associated with any other country in the developed world.

Keep the views and opinions coming. Let the PAP and the old man know that all is not well.
 

Sideswipe

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
gone4good, it is peoples like you that caused Singapore to be in this state.

peoples like you gave your votes to PAP every elections, enabling PAP to control parliament and execute their policies without peasants welfare and feelings. By giving PAP almost whole of Parliament, you caused PAP to become arrogant, contempt and corrupt.

Absolute powers definitely corrupt men. There are no real checks and balances in parliament with just 2 oppositions MPs.

You have made good, went to China do business, earn big money and then discovered that Singapore is not as great as you think. Your 共匪 bros laughed at your small country. and now you came here to tell us Singapore is shit when it's you peoples who gave LKY legitimate powers to be a bandit king.

It's crazy for Singaporeans to give PAP 60%+ nationwide votes, letting them have 90%+ of parliament for 40+ years.
 

gone4good

Alfrescian
Loyal
I think you did not read my post properly. I had voted for opposition in the last election and will continue to vote for them in the coming election. I see nothing wrong in voting for the PAP in the 80s and 90s cos they are doing not a bad job and also there are no worthy opposition figures for us to vote for, at least in my area. So you cannot blame me for voting PAP.

Now things are different.

gone4good, it is peoples like you that caused Singapore to be in this state.

peoples like you gave your votes to PAP every elections, enabling PAP to control parliament and execute their policies without peasants welfare and feelings. By giving PAP almost whole of Parliament, you caused PAP to become arrogant, contempt and corrupt.

Absolute powers definitely corrupt men. There are no real checks and balances in parliament with just 2 oppositions MPs.

You have made good, went to China do business, earn big money and then discovered that Singapore is not as great as you think. Your 共匪 bros laughed at your small country. and now you came here to tell us Singapore is shit when it's you peoples who gave LKY legitimate powers to be a bandit king.

It's crazy for Singaporeans to give PAP 60%+ nationwide votes, letting them have 90%+ of parliament for 40+ years.
 

Whats4

Alfrescian
Loyal
I think you did not read my post properly. I had voted for opposition in the last election and will continue to vote for them in the coming election. I see nothing wrong in voting for the PAP in the 80s and 90s cos they are doing not a bad job and also there are no worthy opposition figures for us to vote for, at least in my area. So you cannot blame me for voting PAP.

Now things are different.

ppl always say 'no worthy opposition' so vote pap, so on what basis is he considered worthy? must he be a phd, masters, bachelor, ceo, bizman etc?
a common man on the street cannot be a mp? how do u know hes not worthy if not given a chance to prove himself?
 

gone4good

Alfrescian
Loyal
At least he must be able to think rationally, convincing in his beliefs and have the moral courage to speak up. Back in the 80s and 90s, those contesting in my area were a joke and have no track records to speak for. It would be foolhardy to vote for them cos I believed that they were in just for some attention and not serious in contesting. So i believed that my vote was cast wisely at that time.

ppl always say 'no worthy opposition' so vote pap, so on what basis is he considered worthy? must he be a phd, masters, bachelor, ceo, bizman etc?
a common man on the street cannot be a mp? how do u know hes not worthy if not given a chance to prove himself?
 

Sideswipe

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
I think you did not read my post properly. I had voted for opposition in the last election and will continue to vote for them in the coming election. I see nothing wrong in voting for the PAP in the 80s and 90s cos they are doing not a bad job and also there are no worthy opposition figures for us to vote for, at least in my area. So you cannot blame me for voting PAP.

Now things are different.

I wouldn't have voted for PAP if I can vote in the 80s and 90s.

One cannot give a party absolute power like this, 90% of parliament for 40+ years. Absolute powers corrupt men, make them contempt.
Any type of oppositions can go to Parliament, just to tell PAP this message. The peasants will vote you PAP out if we want, better watch out.

I am those who will vote for any opposition against PAP.
 

gone4good

Alfrescian
Loyal
you are right in your assumption that absolute power corrupts man but one should not vote against for the sake of voting against just because we want to vote against. There must be a reason to deviate from the norm. At that time in the 80s, and early 90s, seriously, they are doing quite well although they have absolute power. Things took a turn entering the new century. So now there is a reason to vote against them and we should use it to make our intention known.



I wouldn't have voted for PAP if I can vote in the 80s and 90s.

One cannot give a party absolute power like this, 90% of parliament for 40+ years. Absolute powers corrupt men, make them contempt.
Any type of oppositions can go to Parliament, just to tell PAP this message. The peasants will vote you PAP out if we want, better watch out.

I am those who will vote for any opposition against PAP.
 

Einfield

Alfrescian
Loyal
Sinkies still have a long way to go when come to politics.

No matter how GOOD the gov is, never ever give them sweeping power because power corrupts, Sinkines will one day learn that lesson, in a painful way.

I wouldn't have voted for PAP if I can vote in the 80s and 90s.

One cannot give a party absolute power like this, 90% of parliament for 40+ years. Absolute powers corrupt men, make them contempt.
Any type of oppositions can go to Parliament, just to tell PAP this message. The peasants will vote you PAP out if we want, better watch out.

I am those who will vote for any opposition against PAP.
 

po2wq

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
... Slowly, things took an ugly turn and now seeing the way the country is run ...
u can identify clearly, if not roughly, wen tings took n ugly turn ...

can u oso identify wat causes or led 2 dat ugly turn? ...
 

batman1

Alfrescian
Loyal
The Old Fart was never a democratic leader and has never really won any GE democratically.That's why he got to hide behind ISD and Gurkhas regiment.U think he trust singaporeans ? Think again.He never trust u but he want your votes undemocratically !
 

methink

Alfrescian
Loyal
u can identify clearly, if not roughly, wen tings took n ugly turn ...

can u oso identify wat causes or led 2 dat ugly turn? ...

When he managed to instill the fear factor in sinkies. Everybody kowtow to the emperor and carry his big balls trembling.
 

Lee Hsien Tau

Alfrescian
Loyal
Things did not slowly take an ugly turn.

Old Fart had a grand plan.

He got rid of potential rivals in the '50s.
He seized control of parliament in the '60s.
He seized control of the courts in the '70s.
He eased out his equals in the '80s.
He then removed the rent control act.
He then justified a humongous increase in salaries to attract yes men.

Some of his actions may not have been in the grand plan, such as JBJ's appeal to the privy counsel, but no plan is foolproof.

Can you really say that things only took a turn for the worse since the dawn of the new century? Did you suspect nothing when he eased out his equals on the excuse of leedership renewal, but stayed on himself?



Yes, we need to make ourselves heard. I must admit i am pro PAP in the early days and seriously, i think they are doing a good job. I would not say great but at least they improve the standard of living for us. Slowly, things took an ugly turn and now seeing the way the country is run...it is a joke. We are one of the smallest countries in the world and yet this tiny island is divided into so many pieces (constituency) to govern and the pay is obscene. Our govt is really a fat sheep as what some of my friends would call them. Once you trim off the fur lies the tiny bony body beneath it and this is what we should be asking our govt to do. Start trimming off the excess fats and be more efficient. There are just too many passengers now in the governing body, be it in civil services or political bodies. We know some of them cannot make it but somehow they are up there enjoying the perks because of WHO they know and not because of what they can do.

Over here in China, they are amazed at the amount we are paying to maintain our govt and how our small island is run as if it is some gigantic country. Our size is not even comparable to their estate or a small district in a City. They would laugh at us and then always draw inferences that Singapore is just like a class in a school only which is easy to control but somehow the form teacher try to be smart and instead of appointing only a monitor to assist him, he elected monitors for every sitting row/section in a class to ensure that things go smoothly. In this manner efficiency/effectiveness are compromised unknowingly
 

littlefish

Alfrescian
Loyal
Firstly, it was not LKY who steered SG to prosperity, much credit should go to the Dutch man, Albert Winsemius.

I can understand exactly how you felt. When I first started work, I worked in a Stat Board and so was my dad then. I was then enamoured with PAP. When I found out that my dad voted for the opposition without fail at every election, I was furious. I did not understand why he would want to "rock the boat" (in PAP's words). In my anger, I said some harsh words and started to despise him for everything he did. He did not say a word to me about why he always supported the opposition, nor did he argue with me. He must have known in his wisdom that it would be a futile exercise.

Now, I can only say it here that "I am really sorry to have hurt you, dad."
 

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
Had the same issues with my folks. They could not explain why but the keywords were "communists, ballot papers can be traced, don't rock the boat, don't talk so loud, so and so is with the PAP becareful etc. My all time favourite behaviour is the immediate drop in volume when singapore politics is mentioned.

The paranoia increased to a crescendo as the elections drew near.

Could not line the dots but was delighted when so much was achieved in the first 25 years and that we were outstipping many countries around the world. Especially Malaysia and some of the Asian big boys such as China and India.

At that time, 4 people regularly made the news and the Straits Times and the Chinese press were more open. Goh, Raja, Toh and Lee. And it was about opening factories, education, increase in CPF contribution, SIA buying more planes, Bird park and zoo to be opened, SSO formed, new and better HDB flats with no 20% downpayment and no years of waiting and all making a positive impact. Services were better and affordable at hospitals, utilities etc. The MRT was probably the major contribution. Then the clocked stopped and began going backwards.

Anyone can recall good things done after 1990?



I did not understand why he would want to "rock the boat" (in PAP's words).
 

Sideswipe

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
LKY has stayed in power for too long already.

Next election he will be 88 years old, surely that will be his last term as a MP.
 

ChaoPappyPoodle

Alfrescian
Loyal
It is a total lie that Singapore doesn't have any natural resources. After Raffles landed here, our port became and has been a major gateway for major trade amongst countries across continents.

Many other cities with ports are also economically more successful than cities further away from the country's ports. Trade creates wealth. Ports help traders to lpy their trade.

The PAP and their propaganda machinery has gone to no lengths to hide the fact that our success, before and after the PAP came to power is due chiefly to our ports.
 

methink

Alfrescian
Loyal
He did not say a word to me about why he always supported the opposition, nor did he argue with me. He must have known in his wisdom that it would be a futile exercise.

Now, I can only say it here that "I am really sorry to have hurt you, dad."

Your dad, is one enlightened man who was way ahead of his time. You, the son of an enlightened man, is not late in acknowleging this.

With more enlightened ppl like you around, the rule of the pappies is coming to an enlightened end.
 
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