In defence of the PAP

[swampfire]

Hold on to your horses before you get worked up with the title of this post. Allow me to put forth my observation.

I have known a few former pap MPs and still know some present pap MPs. They are not considered "higher office material" by the pap leadership. These people are actually quite nice and sincere. Down to earth and have exhibited various degrees of humility, both in their profession as well as in their capacity as MPs. I shall not name names. In short, truly likeable people with idealistic outlook. These are the ones who do not agree with policies but are forced to comply due to the Party Whip.

Contrast them with those the pap considers higher office material, the ministers. Almost everyone of them is an asshole. We know who they are. Arrogant and live their charmed lives with an elitist air. These are the ones we like to see hammered and humiliated. It is quite apparent that one needs to be an asshole to ascend to the pap leadership. These are the ones who are making life unbearable for singaporeans. These are the ones responsible for our misery. If the pap is rid of most of them, I dare say they can salvage most of the lost support. But I can't see that happening in the near and intermediate future.

 

[tanwahtiu]

many forumers here are also quite nice and sincere. And there are those that are nasty too, also arseholes.

Hold on to your horses before you get worked up with the title of this post. Allow me to put forth my observation.

I have known a few former pap MPs and still know some present pap MPs. They are not considered "higher office material" by the pap leadership. These people are actually quite nice and sincere. Down to earth and have exhibited various degrees of humility, both in their profession as well as in their capacity as MPs. I shall not name names. In short, truly likeable people with idealistic outlook. These are the ones who do not agree with policies but are forced to comply due to the Party Whip.

Contrast them with those the pap considers higher office material, the ministers. Almost everyone of them is an asshole. We know who they are. Arrogant and live their charmed lives with an elitist air. These are the ones we like to see hammered and humiliated. It is quite apparent that one needs to be an asshole to ascend to the pap leadership. These are the ones who are making life unbearable for singaporeans. These are the ones responsible for our misery. If the pap is rid of most of them, I dare say they can salvage most of the lost support. But I can't see that happening in the near and intermediate future.

 

[scroobal]

The "assholes" as you call them cannot hold higher office without the help and support of the former and current PAP MPs that you know, that are "nice and sincere", "exhibited various degrees of humility, "down to earth" etc etc etc.

A political party cannot become government of the day without securing majority of the seats. The "assholes" need fellow MPs from their own party who are "nice and sincere", "exhibited various degrees of humility, "down to earth" etc etc etc. to make the majority.

The same mentality can be seen by forummers who know SPH journalists who are "nice and sincere", "exhibited various degrees of humility, "down to earth" etc etc etc. and who are forced by their editors to do things they do not want.

I know of few SPH editors who are "nice and sincere", "exhibited various degrees of humility, "down to earth" etc etc etc. that have been forced by the Government to do things that they did not want. That is why when they retire they write books to tell the truth and explain how a gun was held to their head.

Lim Ban Lim I found to be "nice and sincere", "exhibited various degrees of humility, "down to earth" etc etc etc. He was loved by viillagers from Lorong Tai Seng as he used to give his ill-gotten gains to the needy there. It did not matter that along the way innocent people were shot and killed to get the ill-gotten gains.

Let us know if you come across past and present PAP MPs who apply the the other angle where these people actually went into the party to change it from within. After 50 years, we are still waiting.

Hold on to your horses before you get worked up with the title of this post. Allow me to put forth my observation.

I have known a few former pap MPs and still know some present pap MPs. They are not considered "higher office material" by the pap leadership. These people are actually quite nice and sincere. Down to earth and have exhibited various degrees of humility, both in their profession as well as in their capacity as MPs. I shall not name names. In short, truly likeable people with idealistic outlook. These are the ones who do not agree with policies but are forced to comply due to the Party Whip.

Contrast them with those the pap considers higher office material, the ministers. Almost everyone of them is an asshole. We know who they are. Arrogant and live their charmed lives with an elitist air. These are the ones we like to see hammered and humiliated. It is quite apparent that one needs to be an asshole to ascend to the pap leadership. These are the ones who are making life unbearable for singaporeans. These are the ones responsible for our misery. If the pap is rid of most of them, I dare say they can salvage most of the lost support. But I can't see that happening in the near and intermediate future.

 

[scroobal]

I know of a one case where a chap held the arms of a girl down while his friends took turns raping her. He then offered to send her back. He was obliged to hold her hands as he was from the same gang but unlike the rest he was no rapist. He felt bad and send her home. Don't you think was sincere and full of humility.

 

[sleaguepunter]

the germans are also nice, hardworking and friendly people. but they prop up a regime that put humans into gas chamber.

the japanese are also nice, hardworking and friendly people. but their army masscared 300k in nanking and go on to murder millions upon millions of chinese citizens.

 

[tanwahtiu]

those that are considered nice and sincere do not have political will or acumen. They are there for the money and you can say they are greed lured by obscene pay.

 

[zhihau]

A political party cannot become government of the day without securing majority of the seats.

bro,
reckoned there would be TCBs along the way?

 

[scroobal]

Sure do Bro,

These however challenge their party machinery openly and do make changes. Not the so called nice ones who are nice to suckers, milk the systems, make business contacts, keep a low profile, write appeal letters to ministries, help their own families and relatives while collecting a pay check from taxpayers.

bro,
reckoned there would be TCBs along the way?

 

[Cosmos10]

Hi bro swampfire, I am a newbie in this forum like you

I refer to your line: "In short, (they are) truly likeable people with idealistic outlook. These are the ones who do not agree with policies but are forced to comply due to the Party Whip".

In my opinion, an MP who votes "yes" on policies that he/she does not believe in, is not doing the truthful thing.

I cannot speak for them since I do not know these MPs (whom you know) personally. If I were in their shoes, I would do either of the two following things, if I really want to contribute to society as an MP.

1). Join another political party that believes in policies as close as possible to what I believe. After all, in Singapore today, I am not short of political parties to choose and join.

or

2). If I cannot find a party I like in (1) above, I will start a new party myself and build it up, or run in an election as an independent candidate.

I will never betray my country, my own heart, mind, and soul to vote for policies in Parliament that I knowingly believe are harmful to the people who trust me enough to vote for me to be their representative voice in Parliament. I would rather take the risk of not being elected than to be elected with a party which I personally believe is not doing the right things for the people. Yes, I know I am idealistic and I wish to keep it that way as long as I live. Just my two cents. Thanks

 

[zhihau]

Sure do Bro

imagine they do a LCS

 

[jw5]

White colour uniform looks quite neat.

 

[Dreamer1]

Hold on to your horses before you get worked up with the title of this post. Allow me to put forth my observation.

I have known a few former pap MPs and still know some present pap MPs. They are not considered "higher office material" by the pap leadership. These people are actually quite nice and sincere. Down to earth and have exhibited various degrees of humility, both in their profession as well as in their capacity as MPs. I shall not name names. In short, truly likeable people with idealistic outlook. These are the ones who do not agree with policies but are forced to comply due to the Party Whip.

Brother SF,you just reminded me of the days when Mr Lim Chin Seong,Mr Fong S S were members of PAP,are these jokers nicer than Lim and Fong?I doubt it very much.

 

[zhihau]

imagine they do a LCS

I doubt it very much.

ok... me was drunk to suggest that they do a LCS :o:o:o

 

[The_Hypocrite]

I know of a few better pap mps but these mps will never hold office or b in position of power as pinky will not allow competition. Y do u think ministars etc are all the most unpopular bunch? If good pap mps are valued tcb would b pm and tan soo khoon would still b mp.

 

[andyfisher]

There will always be a few good apples among the rotten bunch.
But if they are so good, simple and idealistic, I would question why they join with the devil in the first place.

Men who want something good for spore wouldnt join with the clowns, they will join with those who want to make positive changes.

I cant think of a few pappies who had the sheen of idealism about them prior to joining the party.
vivian for one was someone seen as the flag bearer for idealism and greater freedom, now you think he still the same?

Pappies make machiavelli look like angel. Once you go pappy, there is nothing good in there.

The pap must be overhauled completely from the inside out.

 

[swampfire]

I posted my observation and I am grateful for the array of opposing views put forth.

I do not really know the true motivation of those who chose to be PAP MP. The MP salary being a sizeable "side income" could be an attraction? As what bro <b>tanwahtiu</b> stated. Also, I share the same opinion that to be a successful politician, one must possess political will or acumen. Those attributes do not go hand in hand with being nice and sincere.

It could be unfair to paint all pap as bad. I agree with bro <b>The_Hypocrite</b> and <b>andyfisher</b> that all of them can't be all bad. And may I add that some do believe that the pap is the only machinery available that can afford and effect changes within the country. And that to serve the people, the pap is best positioned to achieve that end. Along the way, its inevitable that they are called to support policies that are unpopular. Even policies they don't believe in. Ultimately, they have to deal with their own conscience. And I suspect they try to make amends in their own ways through their constituency work and dedication to their service. Make no mistake about this, those MPs I know made no claims of wanting to change the pap from within nor have they indicated they habour such a notion. Perhaps they know it cannot be done. Just as what bro <b>scroobal</b> mentioned. The sensible ones among us know this for a fact.

Yes bro <b>sleaguepunter</b>, the Germans and Japanese during the last great war were total evil. Yet, there were in their ranks officers and soldiers who did not believe in their cause. Some tried to kill Hitler, others refused to fight. But they were in the minority. And in a military setting, such betrayal meant the firing squad. Perhaps those nicer pap MPs do not have the courage to go against the establishment and face the consequences. I don't know, because I am not in their position. To be placed between a rock and hard place, thats quite a shitty place to be in. Others with weak personal beliefs will be sucked into the vortex. I will not name names

Bro <b>Cosmos10</b>, I am sure those nicer pap MPs truly want to contribute to society. They may agree with a few policies and disagree with others. When they first joined the party, they must have believed in their cause. Given time when they see themselves disagreeing with more and more policies, they can resign and fade away, as some have done.

Having said the above, I am not a pap hugger. I believe they do not have the best interest of Singaporeans anymore. We need an alternative, and I hope one will emerge in our lifetime. Thanks.

 

[jw5]

White colour uniform looks quite neat.

ok... me was drunk to suggest that they do a LCS :o:o:o

bro zhihau, this fellow damn one kind one, never mention us.................................

 

[zhihau]

I believe they do not have the best interest of Singaporeans anymore. We need an alternative, and I hope one will emerge in our lifetime. Thanks.

时事造英雄。looking for to the next two election cycles

 

[zhihau]

bro zhihau, this fellow damn one kind one, never mention us.................................

me don't mind because me is a nobody, only curious why you weren't mentioned :o:o:o

 

[zeddy]

I agree that not all PAP MPs are scums but the behaviour of chaps like Zorro Lim made me think other wise..

My hatred for the PAP knows no bounds..

I don't really care if there are some angels among the PAP devils..

Once a PAP scum, always a PAP scum..