How Jesus ended up as God

[whoami]

i don't think syed is an ah neh,though he grudgingly admire them

myself been to every nook and corner of South Asia, not only India but Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal and etc ,could say i might know more than most ah nehs

syed depth of keling culture seems quite lacking and what is telling is his quest for Islamic knowledge is unmistakably glaring and he does defends malays and their culture quite often

therein lies the answer

But he do mock the Malays too. When he mentioned why not halal this and tat, i take tat as a form of sarcasm. Well, u at times also defend the Malays. But not necessarily ur a Malay. Anyway, syed could be a peranakan aka indian muslim.

 

[Nice-Gook]

But he do mock the Malays too. When he mentioned why not halal this and tat, i take tat as a form of sarcasm. Well, u at times also defend the Malays. But not necessarily ur a Malay. Anyway, syed could be a peranakan aka indian muslim.

thats a possiblity ,a pernakan or Indian Muslim, like our president Halimah

or an Arab blood line too ,some of the Arabs I knew are also very progressive in their views of religion

I had come across Arab girls in the US ,served pork in the univercity canteen ,they simply discard it ,and that's all

 

[whoami]

You always go back to scripture. For me, I think that's a mistake. Scripture is what launched the war in the Middle East. Whether scripture in left hand or right hand (Islam or Christian) is irrelevant to me. Scripture launched that war and is being used to justify murder amongst other things. Of course there is good things too, but what's the point then??

Wats the point u ask? Cos i believe in the Judgement Day. I believe this world is temporary. The hereafter is eternal. Some Muslims renounced Islam aka murtad. Maybe he believe this world is eternal. Lol. Afterall why waste so much time praying, fasting, tis and tat halal or not halal...an invisible God. Well, when he die he will know whos right and whos wrong. Tats where ur faith counts. By then too late to regret cos angels of death cant wait to bring u to the doors of ??????

 

[nightsafari]

I shall not answer for the xtians. Just the Quran. Wage war? Dont remember the Quran commanding the Muslims to go kill everyone including woman, infants and animals. Those "violence" mentioned in the Quran was during war time. No need religion. Even an atheist will strike first before getting strike by enemy, no?

no. it doesn't need to say so. how do you think priests(imams/monks/whatevers) get their followers to do anything? follow scripture. it is a tool used by the priests who wield it. Scripture is like a knife. Can make dinner or can stab someone.

So the ME war started with the scripture every day told to donkey president. Do you really think there's a line in it that says god says you should invade the ME? I think not. But nonetheless, it was manipulated until he believed it. The bugger don't even understand anything. Likewise, a lot of things scripture can be used to justify. I am of the belief that a lot of violence in history is due to priests manipulating scripture. If christians can be guilty of wrongly following scripture, why not muslims?

 

[whoami]

no. it doesn't need to say so. how do you think priests(imams/monks/whatevers) get their followers to do anything? follow scripture. it is a tool used by the priests who wield it. Scripture is like a knife. Can make dinner or can stab someone.

So the ME war started with the scripture every day told to donkey president. Do you really think there's a line in it that says god says you should invade the ME? I think not. But nonetheless, it was manipulated until he believed it. The bugger don't even understand anything. Likewise, a lot of things scripture can be used to justify. I am of the belief that a lot of violence in history is due to priests manipulating scripture. If christians can be guilty of wrongly following scripture, why not muslims?

Yes. Agree tat some priests uses it for self interest. But its so obvious as stated in the scripture its a great sin to kill or murder. Even the Prophet forbid destroying of trees. I suppose the evil priest quoted those verses out of context. As wat most of those anti-muslims did here. One need to read the whole context to understand the whole picture. As for Muslims, maybe u can tell me when was the last time a xtian country was invaded by Muslim country? As for xtians, i can say they are still following their scripture. Their soldiers are still fighting in Muslim soils now.

 

[syed putra]

Yes. Whoever participated in the War against ME should share responsiblilities in housing those refugees/asylum seekers as a result of their intervention/invasion. US/UK n members of NATO! ME wouldnt be in such a mess had it not been for those unnecessary massacring and killing of million of innocent lives. The West caused all those miseries and destruction of ME and now they are asking those migrants to leave? Wat a joke. In fact the West including US and UK, should compensate trillion of $$ to those ME countries as a result of their evil deeds. Especially Iraq!

The whole idea of the west is to prevent a united Pan Arab state. Hence the many monarchies created by the British. Some lasted especially in the gulf and Saudi.and some collapsed or exterminated as in Iraq, iran Yemen, Egypt.
Only two became republic under French mandated rule, Lebanon and Syria.
So if they see a emerging strong man in middle east, he will be exterminated.

 

[syed putra]

isn't that contradictory ?

the fact that majority Muslims have certain beleif itself makes it Islamic, isn't it ?

because ,a large majority does ,as simple as that

I am not here to ascertain the right or wrong in any religion, let alone beleive in any religion ,to me all religions are man made ,and neither that maketh me against any believers since its a psychological anchor

but if majority believe that Jesus is son of God, than tyats what Christianity is all about ,that is ,a majority beleive

to me Jesus was simply a bastard born out of the wedlock...but that does not make me hate Jesus either since only our mother can actually tell us who our father is and not the one whom we beleive to be

the point and gist is ,if the majority beleive ,so be it

nevertheless ,for the purpose of discussion and for knowledge sake, your in-depth research is quite enlightening but I won't go upsetting the majority beleif by taking them to task if I were you ,unless you wish to propogate your beleif and become another Jesus or Mohammed ,but you are not doing that simply by nit picking ,you should come openly state yours and not merely pointing to what's wrong with theirs

that would make you greater

in any respect ,I do enjoy some of your post on religious affair ,that would otherwise be unknown to me

I base my conclusion made by historians. The fact is the first wave of conquest by arabs has nothing to do with religion. There were no forced conversion as the arabs were not religious. And that was how it soread do quickly during the initjal stages. Christians and Jews remained as such. They were neither expelled not butchered.
You look at Andalusia Spain and no mosques or lack of it during the initial phase. And they refuse to submit to subsequent muslim rulers as it became religious as they were not

 

[syed putra]

If i were u i rather surf the net and get answers. Afterall tats how syed and the rest got those answers...fm anti-Islam websites. Syed can say this and tat on the Quran. But u ask him where he got those source from? Where his scripture?

Huh? Their own viewpoints? Didnt u notice most of them all shared the same tots? Same as wat posted in those anti-Muslim websites? LOL! I hardly come across their 1st hand experience. Lol!

Seek guidance only from God. Unless of course if you do not believe in Him.

Yes. Agree tat some priests uses it for self interest. But its so obvious as stated in the scripture its a great sin to kill or murder. Even the Prophet forbid destroying of trees. I suppose the evil priest quoted those verses out of context. As wat most of those anti-muslims did here. One need to read the whole context to understand the whole picture. As for Muslims, maybe u can tell me when was the last time a xtian country was invaded by Muslim country? As for

There is no such thing as priesthood in islam. Those were copied from Christians and jewish faith. Together with building of mosques, weekly congregational prayers.

 

[glockman]

Is Jesus God?

Question: "Is Jesus God? Why should I believe that Jesus is God?"

Answer: Some who deny that Jesus is God make the claim that Jesus never said that He is God. It is correct that the Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, “I am God.” This does not mean, however, that Jesus never claimed to be God.

Is Jesus God? — Jesus claimed to be God.

Take for example the words of Jesus in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33, emphasis added). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one,” He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!” This is a reference back to Exodus 3:14 when God revealed Himself as the “I AM.” The Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).

Is Jesus God? — His followers declared Him to be God.

John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God.

Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son He says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as God, indicating that Jesus is indeed God.

In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. Beyond these, there are many other passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus being God.

Is Jesus God? — The reason Jesus must be God.

The most important reason that Jesus must be God is that, if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.

Is Jesus God? Yes. Jesus declared Himself to be God. His followers believed Him to be God. The provision of salvation only works if Jesus is God. Jesus is God incarnate, the eternal Alpha and Omega (Revelation 1:8; 22:13), and God our Savior (2 Peter 1:1).

Recommended Resource: God the Son Incarnate: The Doctrine of Christ by Stephen Wellum

More insights from your Bible study - Get Started with Logos Bible Software for Free!

Thank you for taking the time and making the effort to present your argument. I really appreciate that and I have read it in its entirety.

Likewise I could find materials from the net and present them to argue that Jesus is not god. But I will not do that. You are entitled to your belief, and as long as your belief makes you a good human being with good morals, have compassion for others, live your life with humility, I say please continue to believe as such. And be as such.

And lastly, may the Force be with you!

 

[nightsafari]

Yes. Agree tat some priests uses it for self interest. But its so obvious as stated in the scripture its a great sin to kill or murder. Even the Prophet forbid destroying of trees. I suppose the evil priest quoted those verses out of context. As wat most of those anti-muslims did here. One need to read the whole context to understand the whole picture. As for Muslims, maybe u can tell me when was the last time a xtian country was invaded by Muslim country? As for xtians, i can say they are still following their scripture. Their soldiers are still fighting in Muslim soils now.

That's pretty much my general issue. A tool that is powerful is easy to change people's minds. Because those scriptures carry the apparent endorsement of god's blessing. (I say apparent, because up to now I cannot find the proof). Fallen into the wrong hands you know lah. But thankfully most people are not that bad.

It is fair to say that the Christians started it. Or more likely, I will say that the angmohs started it. Or perhaps the angmohs kacau by Jews did it. After all, the Jews financed it and got rich from it. But there are so many Christians everywhere who will never even think of this. I don't think a Filipino will go and invade the Middle East. You remember I said Islam is different depending on country? Same with Christianity. or Judaism. or Buddhism. The followers all differ from place to place.

Nonetheless, religion and scripture have caused people to be killed and places of worship burnt. Religion divides people. If Christian and Muslim one will always be wrong. Without religion and scripture, both can worship the same god or different gods and live in peace.

I am grateful you spoke so much to me because in the process, I dug up the charter that Mohammed oversaw. I was stunned by how different his intentions were from the writing in the Koran. Because of this is the only piece of evidence I can find corroborating anything is there. I never saw him decreeing any rules to follow or things to do. No big claims. Just peace. no fighting.

Religion causes people to fight, because scripture says the followers are right. Others who are different must be wrong. Mohammed did not say any such thing about who right who wrong or who go to heaven or hell. Just peace. That I can respect. For all the pedophile stuff, there is no corroborating evidence other than what is mentioned in the Koran after his death. When you move on to gods territory and 100 years from now people say whoami have five wives and two were twelve years old. Should we believe them? So no evidence, I won't talk about it.

My summary is that like Christianity, Islam uses a famous person so that the priests can control peoples minds. The only difference is Jesus used in one, Mohammed used in another. Both never saw or endorsed the scripture using their name. I prefer observing actions rather than talk. As Syed Putra said, Arabs have a rich and detailed storytelling tradition. You can still see it today. It's in the art. But fancy art nor fancy writing does not bring one closer to god. Peace and humility does.

Also religion is no different from politics. Except god's name and famous people name being used. Everytime I think about every religion claiming to be god's religion when no one can prove it makes me concerned about making god angry.

I will speak to god myself and I know you already do. But I hope you understand why I won't follow scripture and religion. I will take whatever lessons from religion that can make me a better person. But I will not follow priests and their own writings to invade the Middle East. Or to chop off kafir heads. Or to burn churches and mosques. Or take lives or slaves in retaliation for not following the priests religion whatever it is. Following also allows you pass the blame for bad decisions onto somebody else. That's not being a conscientious person.

god has no need to control you and your actions. only politicians do.





P.S. When I write this, I realize what I say may have no meaning because Islam in Singapore is not what I am talking about. Iranis tell me they live in fear of living in Iran or visiting. Arabs who have left Saudi Arabia too, but that's less common. Maybe when you visit those places and talk to those people, you will start to see my point of view a bit. In Singapore or even Turkey or Egypt, I admit I make no sense.

 

[nightsafari]

Seek guidance only from God. Unless of course if you do not believe in Him.

There is no such thing as priesthood in islam. Those were copied from Christians and jewish faith. Together with building of mosques, weekly congregational prayers.

too late!!

the Islam you talk about has been swamped by the religion calling itself Islam for a good, long time. Perhaps maybe only a for a few decades when Mohammed was alive?

 

[tanwahtiu]

Book of John was written in 130AD, so much longer so probably cut and paste story from heresay and written by priests.

Only things is quite accurate of Jesus story can be from Quran becos they were written by James descendant. They were found by the Arabs in Minor Asia.

In Book of Mark, Matthew, Luke and John their Jesus story was from hearsays only.

Paul took Mark with him to jot down hearsays stories about Jesus. They spent 3 years in Minor Asia gathering Jesus stories, hearsays only, as such tak pakai lah...

In Galatian 1: 4 Paul said he spent 3 years in Minor Asia so you make yr own assessment.

Book of Mark was written in AD70, Matthew in 90AD, Luke 110AD and John 130AD..

Ai yah.... Don't waste too much time with Bible and Quran....

Is Jesus God?

Question: "Is Jesus God? Why should I believe that Jesus is God?"

Answer: Some who deny that Jesus is God make the claim that Jesus never said that He is God. It is correct that the Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, “I am God.” This does not mean, however, that Jesus never claimed to be God.

Is Jesus God? — Jesus claimed to be God.

Take for example the words of Jesus in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33, emphasis added). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one,” He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!” This is a reference back to Exodus 3:14 when God revealed Himself as the “I AM.” The Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).

Is Jesus God? — His followers declared Him to be God.

John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God.

Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son He says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as God, indicating that Jesus is indeed God.

In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. Beyond these, there are many other passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus being God.

Is Jesus God? — The reason Jesus must be God.

The most important reason that Jesus must be God is that, if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.

Is Jesus God? Yes. Jesus declared Himself to be God. His followers believed Him to be God. The provision of salvation only works if Jesus is God. Jesus is God incarnate, the eternal Alpha and Omega (Revelation 1:8; 22:13), and God our Savior (2 Peter 1:1).

Recommended Resource: God the Son Incarnate: The Doctrine of Christ by Stephen Wellum

More insights from your Bible study - Get Started with Logos Bible Software for Free!

 

[whoami]

Seek guidance only from God. Unless of course if you do not believe in Him.

There is no such thing as priesthood in islam. Those were copied from Christians and jewish faith. Together with building of mosques, weekly congregational prayers.

Of course fm God. And his message is the Quran and the Prophet.

Yes. Teres no priesthood in Islam. We have imam. Just like the Prophet the imam and his followers. Tere were Masjid even during Prophet's time and i already show proof fm the Quran.

 

[whoami]

I will speak to god myself and I know you already do. But I hope you understand why I won't follow scripture and religion. I will take whatever lessons from religion that can make me a better person. But I will not follow priests and their own writings to invade the Middle East. Or to chop off kafir heads. Or to burn churches and mosques. Or take lives or slaves in retaliation for not following the priests religion whatever it is. Following also allows you pass the blame for bad decisions onto somebody else. That's not being a conscientious person.

god has no need to control you and your actions. only politicians do.


P.S. When I write this, I realize what I say may have no meaning because Islam in Singapore is not what I am talking about. Iranis tell me they live in fear of living in Iran or visiting. Arabs who have left Saudi Arabia too, but that's less common. Maybe when you visit those places and talk to those people, you will start to see my point of view a bit. In Singapore or even Turkey or Egypt, I admit I make no sense.

As i had mentioned the prophet pbuh even commanded tat trees be spared from destruction. Tat shows the Prophet pbuh was not evil like how those anti islam website posted. That why we were told in the Quran to follow the exemplary of the Prophet pbuh. Btw no need religion to start a war. Look at WWI n II. Look at Japan, Russia. Nothing to do with religion, no? Rem, the Prophet is not a priest. Hes specially selected by Allah azzawajal as a Prophet, to spread the message of Islam. In the Quran we have he sharia Law commanded by God. Even in any countries u stay tere laws to abide too. So no difference. U cant suka suka do wat u like. U can ignore the law of the Quran. But can u ignore sinkieland law?

 

[whoami]

too late!!

the Islam you talk about has been swamped by the religion calling itself Islam for a good, long time. Perhaps maybe only a for a few decades when Mohammed was alive?

Yes. The Prophet pbuh did mention the best followers were his companions (during his lifetime). Tat means the Prophet pbuh already knew akan datang some Muslims would go astray and do not pay heed to the Quran and his sunnah.

 

[syed putra]

Sharia law is not from the quran but from the hadiths, which mimics Christian and jewish influences.

 

[whoami]

Sharia law is not from the quran but from the hadiths, which mimics Christian and jewish influences.

I doubt u ever read the Quran. Simply surf the net.

Teres sharia law inthe Quran. Dont be lazy. Go google for it. Btw Hadith is tere to fully explain the procedure e.g. swalat

 

[whoami]

I am grateful you spoke so much to me because in the process, I dug up the charter that Mohammed oversaw. I was stunned by how different his intentions were from the writing in the Koran. Because of this is the only piece of evidence I can find corroborating anything is there. I never saw him decreeing any rules to follow or things to do. No big claims. Just peace. no fighting.

I had mentioned many times Islam is a peaceful religion. So why are u saying religion advocate war? Islam is a religion. Followers made mistakes. U cant blame the book or the Prophet.

 

[nightsafari]

I had mentioned many times Islam is a peaceful religion. So why are u saying religion advocate war? Islam is a religion. Followers made mistakes. U cant blame the book or the Prophet.

you can say it all you want. but it doesn't change the number of people killed or raped with in the name of Islam. sorry bro. fair is fair.

 

[whoami]

you can say it all you want. but it doesn't change the number of people killed or raped with in the name of Islam. sorry bro. fair is fair.

I know wat u mean. Anyway like i said even atheist also killed like WWI. Not just religion.