Greatest Military Power In The Past Millennium - Great Britain

[Froggy]

Just an observation, it seemed that most ex-colonies of GB turned out not too bad after independence don't you think? I mean compare this to Spanish and Portuguese.

(Of course we all have to contend with the women's charter.)

 

[eatshitndie]

forget the millennium. bragging rights should be in terms of century.

13th century - mongols
18th century - spaniards
19th century - british
20th century - americans
21st century - sinkies (run by the great gms... *choke choke choke*)

 

[Char_Azn]

China lost the entire eastern seaboard from Manchuria through Shanghai through Nanjing down to HK to Japan at one stage. That's certainly more land than Malaya and Singapore combined. Anyway, like I've said, China was absorbing temporary losses to hold old on for ultimate victory (e.g. Liu Bang v. Xiang Yu). It could afford to and bluntly put, it was used to it anyway. UK accustomed to a tradition of winning was shocked by the loss of Malaya and Singapore to Japan, and worse their allies Holland were in no position or power to hold on to West Indies (Indonesia). What came next after Indonesia? Of course Australia and NZ. That's why Australian and NZ soldiers came here to fight and die. Not for fun or they love Singapore, Malaya or Britain. They knew the cost of total defeat would be even worse.

The Battle of Singapore remains British biggest shame ever. It resulted in the largest surrender of British-led military personnel in history. Winston Churchill called it "worst disaster" and "largest capitulation" in British history. Best part was the surrender was largely down to a bluff by Yamashita. The Jipun kia was probably about to shit his pants worrying whether the Ang Moh will buy his bluff

And here is a map of Japanese occupied China during the 2nd Japanese-Sino War(A.K.A. WWII). They never managed to take the entire country, too big liao. And remember, the China men at this time were fighting each other besides fighting the Japanese and many of them still using primitive weapons

 

[syed putra]

only a part of monggolia became chinese. Ulan bator is still the capital of free monggolia.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

only a part of monggolia became chinese. Ulan bator is still the capital of free monggolia.

It was free cos of russian intervention. Russia wanted a buffer state bet china and itself.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

The Battle of Singapore remains British biggest shame ever. It resulted in the largest surrender of British-led military personnel in history. Winston Churchill called it "worst disaster" and "largest capitulation" in British history. Best part was the surrender was largely down to a bluff by Yamashita. The Jipun kia was probably about to shit his pants worrying whether the Ang Moh will buy his bluff

And here is a map of Japanese occupied China during the 2nd Japanese-Sino War(A.K.A. WWII). They never managed to take the entire country, too big liao. And remember, the China men at this time were fighting each other besides fighting the Japanese and many of them still using primitive weapons

Now waiting for someone to overlook these china men's problems and simply just state they were inferior.

 

[red amoeba]

Singapore and Malaya fell thanks firstly to Siam who allow Japs to land on their shores and push southwards...

otherwise, the process would have taken longer if Siam had taken arms against the Japs...but at that point in time...the Siamese see no benefit to give favors to the British.

And to a certain sense, the British grossly underestimated the Japs...and when defeated claimed its a shameful defeat ? Please, they had it coming. Having 2 battleships without aircover is akin to asking to be raped.

And the planes stationed here...not hurricanes, not Mosquitos but Buffalos...antiques of WW1 era....how not to get screwed like that? I shall not talk about the canons facing the wrong way...

Oh yes, the word came to my mind - COMPLACENCY...and 60+ years later...it was to be repeated when a pai-ka can limp his way from max security and cross border...also COMPLACENCY...sorry cannot help but dig this.

 

[Ramseth]

You call that 'small defeat'?

I always remind our dear drunk brits how their grandpa run like sisi when storm by cycling japs troop from the north. The best part is the canons are facing the wrong direction.

In context of world war scale, yea, just a small defeat, but an embarrassing one nonetheless. US and Britain were the only two true world war warriors. They were fighting practically everywhere, unlike Germany, Russia, Japan and China fighting within defined regions. France had enough spread of colonies then to be fighting "everywhere" but it suffered an early defeat at homeground to Germany. That's a big defeat!

The southward pointing cannon defence was an error, yes. Nobody's perfect all the time. The raiding of Pearl Harbor and sinking of HMS Repulse and Prince Of Wales all indicated a Japanese naval attack from the south. Most British Commonwealth troops were amassed in Singapore awaiting that.

Malaya was left practically undefended as nobody then could imagine that the Japs could cross Indo-China, down Thailand all the way through Malaya on land. Credit to the Jap strategists, they succeeded at the unimaginable.

The Indo-Chinese (Vietnamese), Thais and Malays offered no resistance and let them pass. As promised for non-resistance, the Japs harmed none of them. They were after the Chinese and Brits only. Have you ever heard of any wartime story of Vietnamese, Thais and Malays got tortured or murdered under Japanese hands? The speed and element of surprise came with non-resistance of the locals in the lands, not much fighting involved.

The numerical superiority of troops in Singapore became meaningless and even a burden after the fall of Malaya. The Japanese navy wasn't going to attack from the south for a frontal showdown. They just locked up the sea lanes with their then naval superiority gained from the recent setbacks suffered by the British and American navies. It wasn't a bluff.

The common feature in most Singapore wartime stories was lack of food. The Japanese had control over land supplies with Malaya and the shipping lanes. Singapore could either surrender or be starved to death.

 

[Char_Azn]

Now waiting for someone to overlook these china men's problems and simply just state they were inferior.

The Chinese weapon of choice during WWII

it was used in this role as late as the 1930's in the Second Sino-Japanese War. During Operation Nekka the Chinese claim that whenever they had a chance for close engagement, the dadao was so deadly that they could cut off the heads of Japanese soldiers with ease. A military marching song was composed to become the rally cry for Chinese troops thoughtout the Second Sino-Japanese war to glorify the use of Dadao during battle with the invaders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dadao

The technological difference was so great it's actually pretty sad. I remember reading somewhere that the China men still had Dadao teams equipped with nothing but the big swords to fight the Japanese. You can call them crazy but you have to admire their bravery

 

[Char_Azn]

In context of world war scale, yea, just a small defeat, but an embarrassing one nonetheless. US and Britain were the only two true world war warriors. They were fighting practically everywhere, unlike Germany, Russia, Japan and China fighting within defined regions. France had enough spread of colonies then to be fighting "everywhere" but it suffered an early defeat at homeground to Germany. That's a big defeat!

I strongly suggest U start reading stories about the Eastern Front. What the Brits, French and the whole of Western Europe + Americans had to deal with during WWII were nothing compared to all the shit the Russians have to endure and most experts agreed that Russians were the one that won the war. The Germans loss more troops fighting the Russians then they did against all the Western nations combined. In terms of highest casualties in modern warfare, the seige of Berlin, Stalingrad, Leningrad and battle of Budapest were the highest. All fought between the Russians and the Germans

The Eastern Front was the largest and bloodiest theatre of World War II. It is generally accepted as being the deadliest conflict in human history, with over 30 million killed as a result. It involved more land combat than all other World War II theatres combined.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_%28World_War_II%29#Results

The Brits and Yankees made nice movies about WWII but were largely fighting the youths and Reservist by the time they push past France. The city of Leningrad lasted 3 years against the Germans and never got taken. The whole of France lasted 1 month. Most of the elite German troops died in Russia

BTW the Germans also fought in Africa and the Russians fought in Asia(most notably the taking of North Korea)

 

[flkyflky]

Pse lah, just because they had just built yet another RMS Titanic and that made these Ang Moh anything so great?

 

[Char_Azn]

The numerical superiority of troops in Singapore became meaningless and even a burden after the fall of Malaya. The Japanese navy wasn't going to attack from the south for a frontal showdown. They just locked up the sea lanes with their then naval superiority gained from the recent setbacks suffered by the British and American navies. It wasn't a bluff.

The common feature in most Singapore wartime stories was lack of food. The Japanese had control over land supplies with Malaya and the shipping lanes. Singapore could either surrender or be starved to death.

I think you should read this first

My attack on Singapore was a bluff – a bluff that worked. I had 30,000 men and was outnumbered more than three to one. I knew that if I had to fight for long for Singapore, I would be beaten. That is why the surrender had to be at once. I was very frightened all the time that the British would discover our numerical weakness and lack of supplies and force me into disastrous street fighting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Singapore

 

[Ramseth]

I strongly suggest U start reading stories about the Eastern Front. What the Brits, French and the whole of Western Europe + Americans had to deal with during WWII were nothing compared to all the shit the Russians have to endure and most experts agreed that Russians were the one that won the war. The Germans loss more troops fighting the Russians then they did against all the Western nations combined. In terms of highest casualties in modern warfare, the seige of Berlin, Stalingrad, Leningrad and battle of Budapest were the highest. All fought between the Russians and the Germans

The Brits and Yankees made nice movies about WWII but were largely fighting the youths and Reservist by the time they push past France. The city of Leningrad lasted 3 years against the Germans and never got taken. The whole of France lasted 1 month. Most of the elite German troops died in Russia

BTW the Germans also fought in Africa and the Russians fought in Asia(most notably the taking of North Korea)

The Germans got involved in North Africa after the surprisingly quick victory over France and surprisingly quick collapse of Italy. Still within the Mediterranean region, still lost to Britain anyway (Montgomery v. Rommel).

Where did British and Americans fight? Practically everywhere between Pacific and Atlantic. Russians and Chinese were fighting homeland defence wars, even if it extended to Korea, it was just border regions to both Russia and China, and Burma, also just southern border to China.

I wouldn't call the German troops who conquered France and chased British allied troops all the way to the Dunkirk retreat and Luftwaffe ME fighter pilots "reservists and youths." They lost the chase across the English Channel and the Battle of Britain to RAF, in a battle of elites versus elites, that's a fact. With that defeat, the rest of German troops couldn't land on Britain, that's why Hitler changed strategy and turned eastward to Russia. Britain and Russia are west and east brackets to Europe with Germany in the middle. Hitler's thinking of breaking down at least one of the brackets first is strategically sound, but he was denied and defeated in the endeavors on both ends.

Victory in war is not rated by how many died, it's rated by how many saved. Britain stopped Germany at the cost of a tens of thousands of lives, Russia stopped Germany at the cost of tens of millions of lives. Not a single bomb or bullet could land on US. You go figure who's the real victor?

 

[wikiphile]

You call that 'small defeat'?

I always remind our dear drunk brits how their grandpa run like sisi when storm by cycling japs troop from the north. The best part is the canons are facing the wrong direction.

Actually, that is another 'myth'. The guns could be swung to the north, the shells however were mainly Anti-Ship armour-piercing Shells that was effective against ships and not enough High-Explosive shells which could have doubled as artillery against the Japs in Johor

 

[Char_Azn]

The Germans got involved in North Africa after the surprisingly quick victory over France and surprisingly quick collapse of Italy. Still within the Mediterranean region, still lost to Britain anyway (Montgomery v. Rommel).

Again you under estimated the importance of the eastern front. Rommel was fighting his entire campaign against forces usually 2-3 times his size. The reason for the lack of troops and equipment was coz Hitler was busy fighting the Russians

Where did British and Americans fight? Practically everywhere between Pacific and Atlantic. Russians and Chinese were fighting homeland defence wars, even if it extended to Korea, it was just border regions to both Russia and China, and Burma, also just southern border to China.

How is "North Africa" part of the German homeland? BTW the Brits didn't have that much troops here. Most of them are actually from the commonwealth nations and not British. A lot of Indians and Australians besides the local regiments

I wouldn't call Luftwaffe ME fighter pilots "reservists and youths." They were the elites of the elites. They lost the Battle of Britain to RAF, in a battle of elites versus elites, that's a fact. With that defeat, the rest of German troops couldn't land on Britain, that's why Hitler changed strategy and turned eastward to Russia. Britain and Russia are west and east brackets to Europe with Germany in the middle. Hitler's thinking of breaking down at least one of the brackets first is strategically sound, but he was denied and defeated in the endeavors on both ends.

Just to give you an idea of the grand scheme of things with regards to the Battle of Britian vs the Eastern Front.

Total Number of Aircraft destroy for the Germans during the entire British campaign: > 1900

Total Number of Aircraft Destoryed during Operation Barbarossa alone: >2000

Hitler never wanted to fight Great Britian. He wanted to take on the Russians. However Churchill refused to surrender and the Joker Goering kept boosting that he can beat the British in an air battle which is why it was fought in the first place.

Victory in war is not rated by how many died, it's rated by how many saved. Britain stopped Germany at the cost of a tens of thousands of lives, Russia stopped Germany at the cost of tens of millions of lives. Not a single bomb or bullet could land on US. You go figure who's the real victor?

Sure Victory is not rated by how many died, however victory in WWII was impossible to achieve without the Russians having sacrifice millions of lives in an attempt to stop the German advance. The Brits have won the battle of Britain a while before the Germans advance into Russia. However it was not until the defeat at Stalingrad that the Germans were finally proven that they can be defeated. I strongly suggest U read up more on the Eastern Front and not believe too much in American and British propaganda.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(World_War_II)

Also NG have a really good documentary on WWII called Apocalypse: The Second World War. It's surprising more neutral then the Pro-Yankee stuff they usually have, I suggest U go watch it

 

[Ramseth]

Hitler never wanted to fight Great Britian. He wanted to take on the Russians. However Churchill refused to surrender and the Joker Goering kept boosting that he can beat the British in an air battle which is why it was fought in the first place.

I agree with you on this point. Hitler didn't want to fight Britain. He didn't even demand surrender. He didn't even want his troops stay in Holland and France for long. All he wanted from Britain was to acknowlege German legitimacy over central and eastern European territories. He didn't even intend to conquer Russia. That was also just an attempt at battering and cowering into aquiescience and agreement. Hitler, being the racist he was, hated the Russians far more anyway. He called the British cousins. Well, Anglo-Saxons are half-Germans, Saxony is in Germany wherefrom half of the English race originated.

When Churchill turned his offer down, he had no choice between cease and desist or try to invade Britain. His early success with Scandinavia, Benelux and France made him bolder in belief that he could succeed. Churchill knew that too, and prepared the entire Britain air, land and sea to ward it off.

The failure in Battle of Britain left Hitler with no choice between cease and desist or try to invade Russia to pre-empt a backdoor opening on the eastern front. Yes, the fighting there were more furious and deadly, and the death toll certainly much more horrendous on both sides.

 

[Char_Azn]

I agree with you on this point. Hitler didn't want to fight Britain. He didn't even demand surrender. He didn't even want his troops stay in Holland and France for long. All he wanted from Britain was to acknowlege German legitimacy over central and eastern European territories. He didn't even intend to conquer Russia. That was also just an attempt at battering and cowering into aquiescience and agreement. Hitler, being the racist he was, hated the Russians far more anyway. He called the British cousins. Well, Anglo-Saxons are half-Germans, Saxony is in Germany wherefrom half of the English race originated.

When Churchill turned his offer down, he had no choice between cease and desist or try to invade Britain. His early success with Scandinavia, Benelux and France made him bolder in belief that he could succeed. Churchill knew that too, and prepared the entire Britain air, land and sea to ward it off.

The failure in Battle of Britain left Hitler with no choice between cease and desist or try to invade Russia to pre-empt a backdoor opening on the eastern front. Yes, the fighting there were more furious and deadly, and the death toll certainly much more horrendous on both sides.

I think you are greatly mistaken about Hitler's intentions. He didn't fight Russia to "pre-empt" them. One of his biggest reason for beginning the war in the first place was to take Russia. Refer to his book Mein Kampf

As early as 1925, Hitler suggested in Mein Kampf ("My Struggle") that he would invade the Soviet Union, asserting that the German people needed Lebensraum ("living space", i.e. land and raw materials) and that these should be sought in the east. Nazi racial ideology cast the Soviet Union as populated by "Untermenschen" ethnic Slavs ruled by their "Jewish Bolshevik" masters.[24][25] Mein Kampf said Germany's destiny was to turn "to the East" as it did "six hundred years ago" and "the end of the Jewish domination in Russia will also be the end of Russia as a State."[26] Thereafter, Hitler spoke of an inescapable battle against "pan-Slav ideals", in which victory would lead to "permanent mastery of the world", though he said they would "walk part of the road with the Russians, if that will help us."[27] Accordingly, it was Nazi stated policy to kill, deport, or enslave the Russian and other Slavic populations and repopulate the land with Germanic peoples (see New Order).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barbarossa

He probably never even thought of fighting the Western nations. The idea was to go East wards which he did by first "taking back" what used to belong to Germany and the Austrian Hungarian Empire. The Western nations, namely Britain and France were the one who declared war on him not the other way round

Mein Kampf has also been studied as a work on political theory. For example, Hitler announces his hatred of what he believed to be the world's twin evils: Communism and Judaism. The new territory that Germany needed to obtain would properly nurture the "historic destiny" of the German people; this goal, which Hitler referred to as Lebensraum (living space), explains why Hitler aggressively expanded Germany Eastward, specifically the invasions of Czechoslovakia and Poland, before he launched his attack against Russia. In Mein Kampf Hitler openly states that the future of Germany "has to lie in the acquisition of land in the East at the expense of Russia".[7] Hitler's invasion of France was not motivated by that part of his ideology, as he had previously claimed that Lebensraum should be found eastward, but as a retaliation and strategic occupation after the war declaration against Nazi Germany by the Allies (including Great Britain and France). The invasions of Denmark and Norway were similarly not motivated by ideology, but by a strategic need to fortify all coastlines in Europe in preparation for the Allied invasion of Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf

And if you haven't notice already, I am a WWII fanatic. I'm basically very much a history buff in general :p:p:p:p

 

[jim007jimmyboy]

The Mongols knew nuts about sea and couldn't sail. They go on land only. Not bad though, reached middle east and eastern Europe. 2nd largest empire the world has ever seen, bigger than Roman empire but still smaller than British empire. These were what were under the British empire at its height:

Canada (2nd largest in the world)
Australia (6th largest in the world)
India (7th largest in the world)

Plus the Caribbean islands, African and Asian colonies, Pacific islands and New Zealand, the British empire controlled one quarter of planet earth.

agree

the brits one hell of conqueror and ruler
at least they pass on their system n law to colonies

 

[sleaguepunter]

And here is a map of Japanese occupied China during the 2nd Japanese-Sino War(A.K.A. WWII). They never managed to take the entire country, too big liao. And remember, the China men at this time were fighting each other besides fighting the Japanese and many of them still using primitive weapons

bro, your map not entirely correct. In the late 1943 to 1944 Ichigo Campaign, the main objective of the Imperial Japanese High Command was to capture the American B29 bases in southern china, ie Guilin etc etc, capture Changsha and finally have an overland route from manchuria to the singapore via the indochina as the japanese merchant fleet were being sunk in an rapid rate.
While they fulfil their objectives, the loss of Saipan by 1944 only made the US General Staff to transfer the B29s from china to Saipan why they continue to bombing Japan Home Islands. But IJA do captured the lands to control the overland route to Southern Resource Area. At the same time, IJA realised they not process enough manpower to ensure security of the land they had capture. So surely and slowly, IJA withdrew from the southern china as the war progress.

 

[Ramseth]

He probably never even thought of fighting the Western nations. The idea was to go East wards which he did by first "taking back" what used to belong to Germany and the Austrian Hungarian Empire. The Western nations, namely Britain and France were the one who declared war on him not the other way round

You're just regurgitating what you want to write without reading what I wrote. I did say that it was Britain and France who turned down Hitler, forcing Hitler's westward campaigns. Funny, how can someone agree with me and say that I'm wrong the other way around? Simple. Never read. Never listen. Just regurgitating assuming others are in disagreement.