[GPGT] GOH MENG SENG criticise Chen Show Mao speech + responses from netizens

[elephanto]

I said it before, JJ is the political find of the year.... more so than CSM or Nicole.....

JJ is the silent submarine.... no1 give him any attention even during GE but when he appear... he will sink you

bro brocoli, in this thread, I rank this as your best post !

evidence of which even GMS was led to spew ( a few posts later) his best comment in a long while - i.e. devoid of pomposity and self-praise.

but pray tell, even though I am sure I haven't been living in Mars all this while, but for the life of me, suddenly it eludes me: who the fuck is this JJ ?

you, GMS, Scroobal - all seem to concur on his quality - who in WP is JJ ?

 

[Leongsam]

That's really bullshit!

The public sector is the biggest employer, and those who worked in the civil service and stat boards are all employees of those units. The rest are not shareholders.

They may be earning salaries paid by the state but that doesn't exclude them from being shareholders.

Anyone who has a stake in the economy of Singapore is a shareholder. Anyone with a CPF account is a shareholder. All property owners are shareholders. Anyone with Sing dollars in a bank is a shareholder. Anyone who has any assets where the value of the assets is tied to the sing dollar is a shareholder. Even the singapore passport comes under this category as it is an asset which can be used later on in life.

If I may be allowed to generalise, I'd like to say that there are two major weaknesses in most of the posts in this section and they are :

1) They are emotive rather than logical. The hatred for the PAP displaces level headed analysis of policies.

2) Those who condemn the PAP lack the worldliness required to make impartial judgements.

I'm not saying that this applies to everyone. There are exceptions and these are not too difficult to spot.

 

[brocoli]

bro brocoli, in this thread, I rank this as your best post !

evidence of which even GMS was led to spew ( a few posts later) his best comment in a long while - i.e. devoid of pomposity and self-praise.

but pray tell, even though I am sure I haven't been living in Mars all this while, but for the life of me, suddenly it eludes me: who the fuck is this JJ ?

you, GMS, Scroobal - all seem to concur on his quality - who in WP is JJ ?

hey bro i try to create awareness for him by nominating him as political find of the year, then his party member, ah RAM start talking cock and side track my thread..... follow by Tracy tan and her mindless award game.... totally side track my topic of Yee JJ.....

http://singsupplies.com/showthread.php?106862-Political-Find-of-the-Year-2011

I nominate Yee Jen Jong....

despite all the hooha about CSM, Dr Vincent, NIcole Seah, Pritam and varous Scholars like Ben Phwee, NSP Scholar, Michelle Lee...

He was never in politics until March this year .... yet he has a long history of public service unlike some other opportunists who appear out of nowhere and say they wan to serve the public,.....he been writing to the forum pages of newspapers for the longest time...he is an entrepreneur who start @ least 2 biz.....

this is a guy that sit on government committees and on school advisory boards. like CSM, he doesnt have to be in politics.... he got all to lose and nothing to gain....

yet this mild mannered man manage to almost humble a 23year political veteran in charles chong ... and enter Parliament on his own merit, not riding on any1 coattail.....,,,,

in his maiden parliament speech, in contrast to Gerald who make fierce criticism and CSM who make flowery speech.....JJ is the 1 who make the substantive points that draw blood and provoke 5 office holders to stand up and rebut him incl. a full minister....

In a "watershed" GE with all kind of outstanding people from Opp.... IMO Yee Jen Jong is the find of the year

Yee JJ is an establishment figure .... he join WP not so much out of some sense of misguided idealism and justice.....
he know exactly what is wrong with the system. since he is an educator and entrepreneur....

even though CSM who only make flowery speech, and not substantive and specific policy attack.... but mostly of a mnatter of fundamental principle..... i dunno whether it is because he is still not familiar to Singapore or maybe he is just being a gentle ...

the fact is MIW are preoccupy with and obsess with him.... they nit pick him on him even when he had not really say anything.....

CSM should always be the 1st speaker...let him set the agenda since MIW are obsessed with him....

JJ has been play the part of 2nd last speaKer ..... he has been cleaning up every1 shit and rebutting all of MIW nonsense..... keep it that way

let faisal manap be the main siao kau..... this is 1 who like Low and JBJ, have some grievance against the PAP.... he may not the most eloquent MP....
but that is the point.... faisal manap doesnt have to make the most correct point like pritam and gerald have to
try and substitute the peekture of them tearing apart gerald with a peekture of them tearing apart faisal manap.....


that is goin to swing the entire malay votes over to WP......

Let faisal manap be the 1 who make the "golden teeth" and "I dunno what is MX9" remark.....

gerald and Pritam in the mean time will lick their wound and learn... they are young and will be needed to guide the next generation of WP leaders... if we ever get there....

and you guys need to give gms a break ..... dun just call names for no reason....
he often a point to make ... whether the point is correct or totally off... just let him make a point and we can rip him apart afterward if he is just bsing...

all this name calling is friggin irrelevant...

 

[brocoli]

However, I have not yet watch how he gets into debate engagement, apart from his speeches.

go and watch the president address debate where 5 office holders stood up and shoot him....

he handle himself quite well...

 

[Fook Seng]

他们生活的世界和我们的世界虽有差异, 对我们大家将来的世界, 他们为大家种植树苗了吗? 他们试行了应有的职责了吗?

I am quite fearful of the future. Look at your other thread. We don't have many winners.

 

[Fook Seng]

it's a mix of public sector employees and shareholders. public employees who own assets in sg inc. are also shareholders. sinkie losers are those who do not exploit the wonderful roi opportunities that the sg gov has laid out for all. ask any hdb owner who bought into the asset enhancement scheme a long time ago. no complains from them as they achieve an roi that is the envy of the world. for public housing to appreciate in step with the private sector, and allowing many sinkies to become millionaires, no other country comes close.

The ROI will be even more impressive if you don't have to pay so high. Also don't know the ROI for those who are buying in now. Might not be classified as investment. Even if you look upon it as investment, it could be more like Temasek Holdings and SGIC.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

The REAL FIRST TEST will be the Budget Debate, Committee of Supply. But seriously, I worry for WP. For this Warm UP ministerial salary debate, they have exposed their weaknesses. Their inability to assess policy issues at the macro level is worrying. They have the tendency to be buried themselves in all those theoretical technicality and rhetoric.

JJ may be a good debater but he will also need a good policy platform to start with.

CSM will have problems to grasp National policy issues because he wasn't here in Singapore for most part of his adult life. This explains why he could only go on flowery and rhetorical angle without the ability to link specifically to local policy issues in a technical way. Pritam is too much of an academic. A political response to policy issue may be very different from a policy response in academic terms.

Goh Meng Seng

go and watch the president address debate where 5 office holders stood up and shoot him....

he handle himself quite well...

 

[ssrrvv11]

gms pap dog,

u worry for wp? mai kong lancheow wei lah. u r eagerly waiting for any wp slipup so that u can mock them in order to por pap lumpar.

what a fucking sore loser. still so sore that u kena FO from wp and your replacement in aljunied won the grc instead of u.

btw, did u also worry for tan kin lian that he MAY lose his presidential bid deposit? u very good in political analysis leh. u never predict he will lose his deposit?

 

[OverTheCounter]

Citizens are not regarded as employees as they are not paid a salary by the government.

They are, in fact, regarded as shareholders and the PAP is doing an excellent job of increasing the value of the equity that Singaporeans hold in Singapore Inc.

When I bought my first Singapore Inc shares, I purchased about $45,000 dollars worth of equity. This was in 1980.

When I cashed out of Singapore Inc in 1994, my shares were worth a whopping $2.5 MILLION plus another 20% gain thanks to favourable exchange rates brought about by sound management of the Sing dollar.

For this, I am forever grateful to LKY. He's one of the best CEOs I've ever known. The only CEO who gave me a better ROI was Steve Jobs bless his soul.

Your story is truly inspirational and serves as a good role model for all Singaporeans. I have printed out a copy of your post and mailed it to all my uncles and aunts. I have also made a PDF copy and emailed it to all my nieces and nephews.

We need such success stories to remind ourselves that there is always a fantastic bull market somewhere out there, and to keep our eyes and ears open and alert. Only the persistent naysayers will throw cold water and complain endlessly about the world and about Singapore.

 

[brocoli]

JJ may be a good debater but he will also need a good policy platform to start with.

CSM will have problems to grasp National policy issues because he wasn't here in Singapore for most part of his adult life. This explains why he could only go on flowery and rhetorical angle without the ability to link specifically to local policy issues in a technical way. Pritam is too much of an academic. A political response to policy issue may be very different from a policy response in academic terms.

Goh Meng Seng

I dun think CSM will have problems to grasp National policy issues ....

he is a rhodes scholar...

although I did mention I think he may not be as familiar...

 

[kingrant]

You argument is most simplistic and is out to hoodwink the naiive.

It goes like this:

1. All chairs have 4 legs.

2. Dogs have 4 legs.

3. therefore, dogs are chairs.

You chose some properties that share Singapore with companies and you say therefore we are all shareholders.

However, you ignore the differences: that shareholders get to vote directly the BOD. Yr shareholder in Singapore Inc does not and cannot vote for the Cabinet posts directly. That is already one diff.

Secondly, people can choose to buy in to a company and thence enjoy the dividends or share value's worth. If they dont like it, they can easily find another one. The compact between a country's govt and its citizens is far different from the purely fiduciary relationship between a company and its shareholders.

There are countless people without CPF, assets, bank account. Are they then not shareholders? What about the children? The poor? The homeless? Do they have a choice to belong? I would rather call citizens stakeholders.

They may be earning salaries paid by the state but that doesn't exclude them from being shareholders.

Anyone who has a stake in the economy of Singapore is a shareholder. Anyone with a CPF account is a shareholder. All property owners are shareholders. Anyone with Sing dollars in a bank is a shareholder. Anyone who has any assets where the value of the assets is tied to the sing dollar is a shareholder. Even the singapore passport comes under this category as it is an asset which can be used later on in life.

If I may be allowed to generalise, I'd like to say that there are two major weaknesses in most of the posts in this section and they are :

1) They are emotive rather than logical. The hatred for the PAP displaces level headed analysis of policies.

2) Those who condemn the PAP lack the worldliness required to make impartial judgements.

I'm not saying that this applies to everyone. There are exceptions and these are not too difficult to spot.

 

[kingrant]

I like yr argument.

Let's take a look at a foreign investor here. He has properties, fat assets and bank accounts so certainly a stake in our economy. He doesnt do NS. But when there is a war, he'll pack up and run.

Our national servicemen may not have a roof to his name, scant little in his CPF or his bank account. Yet when the chips are down, he is expected to defend this country which has given him nothing much to fight for.

Yes, both are shareholders, but some are more equal than others.

Anyone who has a stake in the economy of Singapore is a shareholder. Anyone with a CPF account is a shareholder. All property owners are shareholders. Anyone with Sing dollars in a bank is a shareholder. Anyone who has any assets where the value of the assets is tied to the sing dollar is a shareholder. Even the singapore passport comes under this category as it is an asset which can be used later on in life.

 

[Perspective]

Your story is truly inspirational and serves as a good role model for all Singaporeans. I have printed out a copy of your post and mailed it to all my uncles and aunts. I have also made a PDF copy and emailed it to all my nieces and nephews.

We need such success stories to remind ourselves that there is always a fantastic bull market somewhere out there, and to keep our eyes and ears open and alert. Only the persistent naysayers will throw cold water and complain endlessly about the world and about Singapore.

Actually I have come to terms with the fact that ministers should be paid as high as their private sector counterparts. There is no such thing as public service, at least in Singapore. Singaporeans, known for being demanding, expect equally good service from what comes from a government department and what comes from a private company. Why should they not pay the same for both?

Three cheers to King Leongsam.

 

[Leongsam]

There are countless people without CPF, assets, bank account. Are they then not shareholders? What about the children? The poor? The homeless? Do they have a choice to belong? I would rather call citizens stakeholders.

Singapore's shareholders can vote for cabinet posts. In fact, in the last GE, they threw out George Yeo. They could have thrown out more if they chose too. However, they chose to return Woody Goh to cabinet to do bugger all but that's democracy.

The same goes with shares. They can choose to keep their bank accounts in Sing dollars or they can set up USD or AUD accounts whereby linking their assets to the performance of other countries. They can buy property in JB if they believe Singapore property is overpriced. They can buy NZ property which is regularly marketed in the ST. There are no laws and there is no compulsion to invest solely in Singapore and nowhere else.

As for the people without CPF accounts, the poor, the destitute, in other words, the losers, you can't blame the PAP for them being failures in life. Failures exist on every continent in every country. It's not a PAP induced state of affairs. It happens because not all humans are born equal.

 

[Leongsam]

Our national servicemen may not have a roof to his name, scant little in his CPF or his bank account. Yet when the chips are down, he is expected to defend this country which has given him nothing much to fight for.

Yes, both are shareholders, but some are more equal than others.

The sooner you accept the fact that nothing is fair in life and that some people will end up drawing the short straw, the better it will be for your mental health.

I was one of those who spent two and half years of my life serving my country and another 13 years doing both low and high key reservist stints. The so called "sacrifices" are grossly exaggerated. During my full time NS, I spent my free time getting professional accounting qualifications which turned out to be a great investment. It would have been a lot harder to do this if I'd gone straight into working life.

I also viewed my reservist stints as a chance to take a break from the hectic world of corporate life. Reservist camps gave me a great opportunity to get to know people from all walks of life and to network professionally. It was much better than making friends on Facebook.

The trick to being a success in life is to look for positives in every situation especially those that have been forced upon you like NS. If all you do is constantly focus on the downsides and then spend your life whinging on an internet forum about how unfair life is, all you'll do is make yourself miserable and a lot poorer.

 

[Fook Seng]

The sooner you accept the fact that nothing is fair in life and that some people will end up drawing the short straw, the better it will be for your mental health.

The trick to being a success in life is to look for positives in every situation

I agree with you totally on making the best of things. But I also believe that you should strive to improve things even though you are quite comfortable now. You just never know.

 

[kingrant]

You are becoming increasingly ridiculous mixing up a country and a govt which are political entities with corporations which are business ventures.

A political entity such as a state comes into being because people who desired to settle down find security and economies of scale etc in a group and in numbers. Thereafter, they evolved their own systems of govts and laws to govern themselves and to find a social compact where the govt serves as central authority to collect taxes, police laws, deal with anti-social offences and in return compel the male citizenry to take up arms when there was an external threat.

The companies does nothing of this sort and has no such rel'ship with its shareholders. The sharevalue that a company shareholder holds is only the market value of the share which is easily tradeable over the counter mostly whereas that of the citizen is more of a stake, where his life, family's lives and property are involved and is not easy at all to exchange for another country. Therefore it behooves a good govt to run and govern a polity in the interests of its citizens and to strike a good balance with the contribution of outsiders who are only in it for profits.

Arguing for the sake of arguing is trolling.

Singapore's shareholders can vote for cabinet posts. In fact, in the last GE, they threw out George Yeo. They could have thrown out more if they chose too. However, they chose to return Woody Goh to cabinet to do bugger all but that's democracy.

The same goes with shares. They can choose to keep their bank accounts in Sing dollars or they can set up USD or AUD accounts whereby linking their assets to the performance of other countries. They can buy property in JB if they believe Singapore property is overpriced. They can buy NZ property which is regularly marketed in the ST. There are no laws and there is no compulsion to invest solely in Singapore and nowhere else.

As for the people without CPF accounts, the poor, the destitute, in other words, the losers, you can't blame the PAP for them being failures in life. Failures exist on every continent in every country. It's not a PAP induced state of affairs. It happens because not all humans are born equal.

 

[kingrant]

Nothing to do with his 2.5 yrs stint. I cited the NSmen for their duty to bear arms when everybody whom you call a shareholder is taking out its capital and running away for cover, to Oz, NZ, etc.

The sooner you accept the fact that nothing is fair in life and that some people will end up drawing the short straw, the better it will be for your mental health.

I was one of those who spent two and half years of my life serving my country and another 13 years doing both low and high key reservist stints. The so called "sacrifices" are grossly exaggerated. During my full time NS, I spent my free time getting professional accounting qualifications which turned out to be a great investment. It would have been a lot harder to do this if I'd gone straight into working life.

I also viewed my reservist stints as a chance to take a break from the hectic world of corporate life. Reservist camps gave me a great opportunity to get to know people from all walks of life and to network professionally. It was much better than making friends on Facebook.

The trick to being a success in life is to look for positives in every situation especially those that have been forced upon you like NS. If all you do is constantly focus on the downsides and then spend your life whinging on an internet forum about how unfair life is, all you'll do is make yourself miserable and a lot poorer.

 

[coolguy]

Unfortunately sgreans has become a group of pitiful, powerless bunch who are forced to use their hard earn $ to become shareholders of sg inc, a debt ridden company.
And yet the CEO and upper elite management are still drawing obscenely high salaries despite the growing debt of this company.
And these sgreans, being peanut shareholders, have no say on the management except voting rights,
which are biased by the way.
A bunch of unwilling grudingly shareholders. Pitiful indeed.

 

[Conqueror]

It's People Like You That The World Continues To

The sooner you accept the fact that nothing is fair in life and that some people will end up drawing the short straw, the better it will be for your mental health.

The trick to being a success in life is to look for positives in every situation especially those that have been forced upon you like NS. If all you do is constantly focus on the downsides and then spend your life whinging on an internet forum about how unfair life is, all you'll do is make yourself miserable and a lot poorer.

Sounds great on person with a numbed brain. But, there will always be people who will not be a lackey (strong backs, upright) to serve the Japs. Harry and prataman had great insights about serving a different master for their own good. I would rather say to each his own. There will always be good apples and bad ones.