Goh Meng Seng Challenge Yaw Shin Leong to contest in Tampines

[Goh Meng Seng]

Scroobal,

Just to add, I am actually not "crying over spilled milk" but I understand what I have done will have consequences for next GE. If both sides, NSP and WP don't play their cards right, we will see big bang coming and everyone is a loser.

You may think that I am still angry about NSP losing MK but nope, I am not angry at all. What has been done is done. It is the future GE that I am worried and by the look at WP members' arrogance, I guess the worst case scenario would play up.

I am just using the MK saga as the case study. If WP continues to think that it could continue behave as it is, even more so when now it has 8 MPs and NCMPs, it will face a rude shock later and it would be a sad day for Singapore Democracy.

Personally, I would go an extra mile to provide an avenue for a possible solution to avoid all out 3 corner fights in next GE. I am laying such seed to disarm the potential clashes.

But WP must understand and learn from their strategic mistakes they have made. Else, nothing will work.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Something compelled me to do a google search on what exactly is an "Ah Q" mentality and I found this passage telling:

In modern Chinese language, the term the "spirit of Ah Q" or "Ah Q mentality" (阿Q精神, A Q jingshen) is used commonly as a term of mockery to describe someone who chooses not to face up to reality and deceives himself into believing he is successful, or has unjustified beliefs of superiority over others. It describes a narcissistic individual who rationalizes every single actual failure he faces as a psychological triumph ("spiritual victory").

 

[Perspective]

Something compelled me to do a google search on what exactly is an "Ah Q" mentality and I found this passage telling:

In modern Chinese language, the term the "spirit of Ah Q" or "Ah Q mentality" (阿Q精神, A Q jingshen) is used commonly as a term of mockery to describe someone who chooses not to face up to reality and deceives himself into believing he is successful, or has unjustified beliefs of superiority over others. It describes a narcissistic individual who rationalizes every single actual failure he faces as a psychological triumph ("spiritual victory").

You forgot one thing. Or maybe it's Wikipedia that forgot due to lack of handling real life Ah Qs. An Ah Q will not think of himself as an Ah Q not matter how Ah Q he is, and thinks of anyone else in the world as an Ah Q except himself.

 

[scroobal]

Lets assume that you have good intentions. Then the best approach is to commence negotiations with WP on a private basis and this is certainly not the forum for this.

If they do not agree then go ahead and do whatever works but this is not the forum neither is the approach appropriate. It hurts you and NSP rather than WP. If you recall the manifesto release by WP for GE2006. It was done by Sylvia and Ng Eng Hen tried to take her on. He was campaign point man. Despite all his stunts, Sylvia nor WP refused to acknowledge his presence or his attempts to engage the WP in regard to the manifesto. It was embarrassing and he was replaced by Viv B.

So far it has been self-inflicting rather than form of progress.

Scroobal,

Just to add, I am actually not "crying over spilled milk" but I understand what I have done will have consequences for next GE. If both sides, NSP and WP don't play their cards right, we will see big bang coming and everyone is a loser.

You may think that I am still angry about NSP losing MK but nope, I am not angry at all. What has been done is done. It is the future GE that I am worried and by the look at WP members' arrogance, I guess the worst case scenario would play up.

I am just using the MK saga as the case study. If WP continues to think that it could continue behave as it is, even more so when now it has 8 MPs and NCMPs, it will face a rude shock later and it would be a sad day for Singapore Democracy.

Personally, I would go an extra mile to provide an avenue for a possible solution to avoid all out 3 corner fights in next GE. I am laying such seed to disarm the potential clashes.

But WP must understand and learn from their strategic mistakes they have made. Else, nothing will work.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Perspective]

Lets assume that you have good intentions. Then the best approach is to commence negotiations with WP on a private basis and this is certainly not the forum for this.

If they do not agree then go ahead and do whatever works but this is not the forum neither is the approach appropriate. It hurts you and NSP rather than WP. If you recall the manifesto release by WP for GE2006. It was done by Sylvia and Ng Eng Hen tried to take her on. He was campaign point man. Despite all his stunts, Sylvia nor WP refused to acknowledge his presence or his attempts to engage the WP in regard to the manifesto. It was embarrassing and he was replaced by Viv B.

So far it has been self-inflicting rather than form of progress.

As I correctly pointed out, you do give a lot of benefit of doubt, but I respect that.

People don't understand that if it is so difficult to perceive those countering him as not with WP, similarly others will see it it difficult to perceive that he's not NSP. You have some avatar with the logo and moreover unlike these "WP" chaps who are probably ex-members, non-members or even cadres much less ever been in WP's CEC, the chap HAS BEEN A SEC-GEN OF THE PARTY. So if people choose to self-destruct along with the party of which all the chips have been prepared, well it's free well.

 

[Perspective]

Anyway Scro, have to pity you for getting a crappy assay in return for your point missed because people thought you had missed their point instead. I will pretend to help you one more time.

- MP is a training ground on one hand and the results were surprising on the other hand it was a master card and the results were not surprising.

- Now a new argument is that MP has become a way to block WP in EC. Anyone looking at the map would think it makes more sense for WP to go Pasir Ris Punggol first. Oh, forgot we are talking about the lack of sense.

- As if NSP can block WP by occupying MP since WP can also do the same as it did in MK, and NSP could also kindly give way "graciously" to WP again in MP.

- Notice something odd? If NSP is going to stick the guns in MP in 2016 and felt that WP sent a third rate team to MK, why not have NSP elite-rate-team-or-whatever return to MK in 2016 by arguing that WP did not do well in MK? Instead of keep complaining about WP in MK? In reality the MK issue is stirred as an albatross around WP's neck to paint them as a penchanter of 3-corners.

- Tan Jee Say's 7% difference against Tan Cheng Bock is a blessing for NSP - yes, that helps save the deposits that's all, but doesn't help NSP win either PAP or WP. But maybe it's the fun of contest that they are really after, which actually proves me right about the altruism part. BTW again flipflop suddenly 7% difference is little whereas NSP Tampines and WP MK difference of 1.5% is a lot.

At this rate I am going, I am going to see silence for another "golden" period.

 

[3_M]

The only politician in this world to involve in online bickering with netizens. Epic failure.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Scroobal,

Apparently you don't understand WP well enough. Ramseth has put it right, WP is no longer interested in negotiation any more. The only aim they have is only to tell other parties to give way to them else face "elimination".

I knew it even before GE2011 and that is why I didn't want to get involve in the negotiation with WP "privately". I let people who think that they could talk WP out to do the job. Nope, I am not interested at all, not wasting time with them. I understand them too well, so to speak. The only option left for me is to lay the seeds for future GE.

In fact, I will do exactly the thing that they afraid most, "negotiation" through the media. That is the only way I could "entrap" them in saying they are not going MP.

In WP members' eyes, they are almighty. Private negotiation means nothing to them. The only thing they are wary of is the media, both MSM and New Media.

Actually, there is nothing to lose for me.

This is totally different from Ng Eng Hen vs Sylvia. Ng Eng Hen chose the wrong topic to attack and naturally he would fail to score points.

There were a lot of people siding WP in MK saga, insisting that NSP should give way to WP because WP has better chance of winning. The team WP puts up and the result it gets prove them wrong, very wrong. WP is not even interested in winning by putting up such a team.

Most likely, I am not going to be the one who is going to do the negotiation with NSP since I have left NSP CEC and the SG post. But these are the points I am raising to put things into proper perspective. The reason of WP is "better" and "having better chance of winning" has proven invalid. This GE2011 MK saga will be the proof to debunk such reasoning. I am just letting WP know that indirectly and subtly, they are losing the moral argument for next GE.

As I have said, whether there will be 3 corner fights between NSP and WP next GE, I will not be involved in it. I have no interest to do silly things. Thus, I really have nothing to lose.

Goh Meng Seng

Lets assume that you have good intentions. Then the best approach is to commence negotiations with WP on a private basis and this is certainly not the forum for this.

If they do not agree then go ahead and do whatever works but this is not the forum neither is the approach appropriate. It hurts you and NSP rather than WP. If you recall the manifesto release by WP for GE2006. It was done by Sylvia and Ng Eng Hen tried to take her on. He was campaign point man. Despite all his stunts, Sylvia nor WP refused to acknowledge his presence or his attempts to engage the WP in regard to the manifesto. It was embarrassing and he was replaced by Viv B.

So far it has been self-inflicting rather than form of progress.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

You can fool most people some time but not ALL people ALL the time.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[brocoli]

The reason why I kept MP as a hidden card is precisely because I know how WP works. WP is filled with many selfish individuals who cannot see the bigger picture and the urgency to deprive PAP the two third majority. They are the ones who put pressure and urging for such cannibalizing moves which benefits no one but PAP. They are even itching for 3 corner fights. And all these thinking are based on the dream of "Two Party System" which actually means that destroy all other parties at all cost.

Such mentally is detrimental for the whole opposition movement as well as the Nation's progress in democratic development.

Whether such strategic move is successful or not depends on many factors but at least one of the most important factor has been acquired, the grooming of Nicole Seah through MP who will become a significant player in playing this "block force" operations.

Goh Meng Seng

think Nicole Seah is playing every 1 fool... deep down she must be wishing she can find some reason to jump to WP now
I am confident Tin Tin can destroy her in the next election

I am the biggest avocate of the 2 Party system strategy here, maybe the only 1...

I am a veggie, not an Insect and certainly not a WP member

I made many threads that are not too flattening toward WP as well .... I sexpose Glenda Party Peektures here... I say Faisal is the weakest link ... i Make fun of Sylvia parliament speech, am I a WP insect ? am I trying to get into Parliament ??? SIAO. and obviously Png and Gerald have better thing s to do than come to this traffic and bicker with every 1?? they are the 1 trying to get into Parliament

I am just trolling around a bit to point out where they can improve while it seem obvious to every1 that you have some big hatred against WP.... nitpicking on non relevant points ....trying to stir dabian

the 2 Party system strategy isw the most rational and natural next direction to take.
I am very disappointed that many lao ah peks still cant see it in this forum....still living in the PRE GE2016
WP just happent o be the 2nd party of the system, if NSP were the 1 who won 6 seats, I would still be avocating 2 Party system strategy ... consolidate every 1 behind1 party....

WHY 2 Party system ?? because there is no oppositon unity, its been tried and tried again... the ah pek cant see it and neither can you..

you are the 1 who only want to safe guard your own NSP interests and lose sight of the bigger picture of political development which is a 2 Party system

its like a anything but MAN U thing, WP just happen to be winning seats..
I dun agree with with the socialist overtone so I am not a WP member, if I were, I will be purge

but I still believe all OPP who are anti PAP should now get behind WP because they can win seats and they are the only 1 who can stop PAP now...

its like vote Nazi so you dun get communist govt

you just reveal how scheming you are in thye previous post and so you have no right to talk bout greater interest...

 

[brocoli]

but then they have yet to make a presences in the west and north-west side.

maybe NSP can concentrate on the western side of the island like CCK GRC, Jurong GRC (not easy consider PAP have a strongman in tharman), Pioneer SMC etc where there is no wp presences and start walking the ground?

let's not forget that despite a pap stronghold, CCK GRC and Pioneer SMC can still get near to 40% for NSP and it is one of the highest opposition vote percentage in the west side. it might be even higher if they started to walk the ground early.

in the mean time, dunno why NSP choose to do its walkabout in East Coast and Paya Lebar. totally make no strategic sense @ all... it seem to me NSP is preparing to threaten WP with 3 corner fights in East COast and ALjunied if they move into MP and 10kkj

so much for "The cost is the Nation's democratic progress and development, bigger picture, lack of responsible considerations for the Nation's interest of political development. blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah " ??

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

You can fool most people some time but not ALL people ALL the time.

Goh Meng Seng

I agree. This time you have fooled no one.

 

[brocoli]

The cost is the Nation's democratic progress and development. To put it bluntly, when a party goes to the extreme and only want to safe guard its own interests and lose sight of the bigger picture of political development, they are no different from PAP which will just change the electoral rules to their advantage.

While we condemn and criticise PAP for doing that, I think it applies as well to opposition parties which only want to be "spoiler" or just "selfish" in trying to deprive other opposition parties of the chance of winning, especially in the situation whereby PAP's dominance is overwhelming right now.

The PE result is a silver lining for NSP. It actually shows that it is possible to split the votes of hardcore anti-PAP out from the middle ground. It would mean that if NSP is able to convince hardcore anti-PAP voters that what WP is doing would be detrimental to opposition growth, the results of 3 corner fight would be very closely split.

Goh Meng Seng

you are talking about how to split the OPP votes ???

does that make you no different from PAP which will just change the electoral rules to their advantage. ?
can I say that NSP have gone to the extreme and only want to safe guard its own interests ?

so who is the 1 who only want to be "spoiler" or just "selfish" in trying to deprive other opposition parties of the chance of winning, especially in the situation whereby PAP's dominance is overwhelming right now. ???

and now you are talking about "maximize strategic advantage through careful strategic maneuver. " @ the expense of WP i guess?

and then on the other hand you talk about WP is now the "dragon head" of opposition movement
how its aligned with your political vision to "protect" its relevance.





you are a logician nightmare

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

I am in no position to answer your question because I am not in CEC. But your guess is as good as mine.

Even so, I think if you agree to WP's moves to safeguard their own interests and should disregard others like NSP, then why should you have any objections or problems for NSP to do likewise? In game theory, this is definitely the lose lose situation but NSP is just doing what is best for itself, just like what WP is doing.

If WP is not interested in the bigger picture of the Nation's political development in the first place, why should NSP care?

I am saying this not because I am NSP member but this is exactly what will happen and it is only fair to apply the same standards on both parties.

In game theory, normally the win win situation will only occur when there is collaboration. But most of the time, due to the selfish human nature, we will end up with a lose lose situation.

Goh Meng Seng

in the mean time, dunno why NSP choose to do its walkabout in East Coast and Paya Lebar. totally make no strategic sense @ all... it seem to me NSP is preparing to threaten WP with 3 corner fights in East COast and ALjunied if they move into MP and 10kkj

so much for "The cost is the Nation's democratic progress and development, bigger picture, lack of responsible considerations for the Nation's interest of political development. blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah " ??

 

[brocoli]

I am in no position to answer your question because I am not in CEC. But your guess is as good as mine.

Even so, I think if you agree to WP's moves to safeguard their own interests and should disregard others like NSP, then why should you have any objections or problems for NSP to do likewise? In game theory, this is definitely the lose lose situation but NSP is just doing what is best for itself, just like what WP is doing.

If WP is not interested in the bigger picture of the Nation's political development in the first place, why should NSP care?

I am saying this not because I am NSP member but this is exactly what will happen and it is only fair to apply the same standards on both parties.

In game theory, normally the win win situation will only occur when there is collaboration. But most of the time, due to the selfish human nature, we will end up with a lose lose situation.

Goh Meng Seng

WP's interests is the interest of all Opp interests, since its the "dragon head" of opposition movement,

WP is not the 1 here sprouting about the bigger picture of the Nation's political development in the first place.... you are ...

if you spent 0.0001% of your time scheming against WP on scheming against PAP, you would have gotten seats liao...

all rational opp voters will naturally gravitate toward WP because its the natural thing to do.... not because they are WP insect...
why does the biggest club have the most fans is becaus they can win... simple as that


if you cant win then dun sabo

 

[Ramseth]

I am looking at things at a higher, macro level.

Thanks for calling me just now. I'm only mostly free at night nowadays. But as usual, I'll support you when I think you're right and not when I think you're wrong. In this case, there's no claim to higher macro level when you can't even win at lower micro level. Sorry, but that's frank and fact. Unless you have something like Liu Bang, Zhang Liang, Han Xin and Xiao He gang...kept losing every battle and finally won the war.

 

[brocoli]

Kao Peh Kao Bu so much about Moulmein Kallang////

didnt he also snatch Pioneer, CCK and Radin Mas from RP ????

liddat is not hypocrite is huat ????

 

[3_M]

You can fool most people some time but not ALL people ALL the time.

Goh Meng Seng

You just need to fool some people some of the time.

 

[ssrrvv11]

loser gms,

just answer this question is u dare.

IF u were the WP chief instead of LTK for the 2011GE, do u think u can win more than 6 mp + 2 ncmp positions? Yes, No, Maybe, Don't Know?

Most ppl will say no way u can do better than him but knowing u, u will probably answer as "Don't Know" to save your own thick-skin. nobody will know the answer to this as this thing never happen.

thus in the same breathe, i don't know how can u confidently say your NSP team will do better in MK if allowed to contest instead of WP. pls lah i can also say IF your mother have balls she would have been your father instead. tiu.

reasoning with u is worse than reasoning with a 1 year old kid. u just cannot accept logic. any1 that counters u here must either be from pap or wp. siow.

 

[@rmadill0]

WP MK Team is 3rd rate in relative to other WP team what! I mean we have to be truthful to ourselves in such assessment.

I have said it openly and published in the papers that if WP send its top team, best if it is LTK leading the team to MK, I would gladly concede and give my full support and blessings to them....

As for your speculation of conspiracy, I really have no comment.

Goh Meng Seng

Oh come on. WP also has their own strategy. They will know in which GRC they has the highest chance of winning and therefore, sending in their strongest team. If they were more confident in capturing MK, I would bet with my last dollar that you will see LTK leading a team there.

By saying someone as 3rd rated, it is as good as saying that he is not good enough by any standard. You don't comparing them with other WP teams and then say that they are 3rd rated. You can however, say that they are the 3rd strongest WP team. That would be more appropriate in my humble opinion.