Goh Meng Seng attacks Yaw Shin Leong on his blog

[Goh Meng Seng]

Don't worry Locke. Business is business, politics is politics. Two are different things. Politics involve public interests most of the time. Both of us know that difference.

I have just come back from a gathering of old pals. Cross checking of information could be quite fun, especially so when the information suddenly light up the weird situations we face back then. It is truly like a Matrix to some of my pals where they were manipulated by people doing double talking. Then suddenly, they finally woke up and realize how one could twist words and perceptions. We have a good laugh and thank heaven, it is not too late for us to realize what kinds of manipulations some would make and the extend one would go just to back stab people and building their own power base.

At the very least, I am transparent on what I think and do here. IF they want First World Parliament and First World Opposition with First World Democracy and politics, I will give it to them. No need that kind of devilish back stabbings. I have been playing nice guy for far too long even tolerating all those nonsense scheming. I will change and play the political observer and commentator role.

I will continue to be harsh on PAP's bad policies but at the same time, let's put the pressure on the opposition parties as well. Let the game begins.

Goh Meng Seng

Dear All,

I am just thankful that GMS and I are trying to do "business" and that he is NOT HELPING me in the same way he is "helping" the WP and the opposition. I would like to add that though some of his analysis has merit, his publicizing it for "helping" makes me hold to the adage, " With friends like these who needs enemies. "




Locke

 

[LeMans2011]

I don't understand why you guys even bother with a loser who carries no weight. That fella will just be forgotten or at most remembered as a sore and revengeful loser.

 

[Fook Seng]

Criticisms can make them better. This is from a non-partisan perspective. Nobody is perfect nor perfectly lemon. But if people are to just keep quiet, maintain status quo, they may get the wrong signal that all are well.

Goh Meng Seng

GMS. Come on. You want a winning party embrace ideas of a loser like you? Go back to the mountain in Hongkong and meditate some more.

 

[scroobal]

We are all gulity of giving GMS the oxygen that he needs to keep this discussion going. I am sure that we realise that no amounting of reasoning is going to help. He is also not following his own ideals and there is no consistency in the way that he argues his points with forummer OTC making the point crystal clear.

Obviously this has to be something more personal and I suspect that it involves LTK directly and not the party per se. It probably started with events leading to his departure and a number of other events adding fuel. I suspect that catalyst was the Moulmein negotiation and it is now pay back time. My sense is that he is no longer interested in politics as a possible candidates and has nothing to lose.

Would suggest the depravation of oxygen henceforth for this thread. Let the usual suspects and him do what they need to do.

 

[brocoli]

Obviously this has to be something more personal and I suspect that it involves LTK directly and not the party per se.

if you guys speak to Eric Tan, He lay the blame solely on LTK as well..... he never blame the rest of CEC, he is probably still on good term with most of the CEC and rest of the Party....

sometime i wonder if there is any collective leadership ?? .... for all the "talent" in the WP CEC, you really wonder if they are all Yes-men or just awfully self disciplined ?

I still find it hard to believe learned men like JJ and show mao will think they can just keep mum.....

 

[Perspective]

if you guys speak to Eric Tan, He lay the blame solely on LTK as well..... he never blame the rest of CEC, he is probably still on good term with most of the CEC and rest of the Party....

sometime i wonder if there is any collective leadership ?? .... for all the "talent" in the WP CEC, you really wonder if they are all Yes-men or just awfully self disciplined ?

I still find it hard to believe learned men like JJ and show mao will think they can just keep mum.....

I believe it is not so much about LTK compelling everyone to appoint him to make sole decisions, but possibly the strongman elbowing tactics to get CEC to vote his way. WP (and NSP) goes by collective decision in the sense of CEC level. Not for SPP, SDA or RP. As for SDP, at times. This is open secret to those in the know. And surely LTK's clout would be strong enough, given that he nearly had his political career ended for the sake of winning a GRC.

Despite that there may be few close calls on critical decisions. Eric knows he lost to Gerald over the NCMP very marginally, like 1-2 votes, despite the key people in CEC (LTK and SL) preferring a younger NCMP and LTK pep talking the CEC. Hence, though he did not solely bulldoze, he was blamed as influencer. Although that margin made the world of difference, Eric himself was foolish to resign. That's the issue. You leave, you can't get back what you were trying to achieve.

 

[Bersik 2.0]

Those who will leave are foolish? and those who stay are smart especially the one who get to keep his allowance and happily screwing around with fellow party candidates except that he had learnt his lesson not to blog about it.

I believe it is not so much about LTK compelling everyone to appoint him to make sole decisions, but possibly the strongman elbowing tactics to get CEC to vote his way. WP (and NSP) goes by collective decision in the sense of CEC level. Not for SPP, SDA or RP. As for SDP, at times. This is open secret to those in the know. And surely LTK's clout would be strong enough, given that he nearly had his political career ended for the sake of winning a GRC.

Despite that there may be few close calls on critical decisions. Eric knows he lost to Gerald over the NCMP very marginally, like 1-2 votes, despite the key people in CEC (LTK and SL) preferring a younger NCMP and LTK pep talking the CEC. Although that margin made the world of difference, Eric himself was foolish to resign. That's the issue. You leave, you can't get back what you were trying to achieve.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

GMS. Come on. You want a winning party embrace ideas of a loser like you? Go back to the mountain in Hongkong and meditate some more.

Win or lose for a party, is just temporary as it is an ongoing process. Most important thing is that Singaporeans cannot lose in such process.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[BlueWave]

Win or lose for a party, is just temporary as it is an ongoing process. Most important thing is that Singaporeans cannot lose in such process.

Goh Meng Seng

ehh.. gms, losing will be a permanent fixture for you. LOL

 

[hurley]

spoken like a true loser!

Win or lose for a party, is just temporary as it is an ongoing process. Most important thing is that Singaporeans cannot lose in such process.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[wikiphile]

ehh.. gms, losing will be a permanent fixture for you. LOL

I wonder if they will create a position of worst-loser-ever NCMP just for GMS with full voting rights and full MP allowances?

In your dreams GMS, wait long long

 

[PMPunk]

I am not even attacking WP, just criticising their ill-thought policy and the way they handle the Yaw-gate. - Goh Meng Seng 04-02-2012

I do believe in that and that is why I hardly attack any other parties beside PAP and WP. - Goh Meng Seng 05-02-2012

See, this fXXker insect doesn't take more than one day to twist his words. LKY took years to U turn on ISD, this fXXker only 1 day.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

ehh.. gms, losing will be a permanent fixture for you. LOL

Absolutely spot on.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

I believe it is not so much about LTK compelling everyone to appoint him to make sole decisions, but possibly the strongman elbowing tactics to get CEC to vote his way. WP (and NSP) goes by collective decision in the sense of CEC level. Not for SPP, SDA or RP. As for SDP, at times. This is open secret to those in the know. And surely LTK's clout would be strong enough, given that he nearly had his political career ended for the sake of winning a GRC.

Despite that there may be few close calls on critical decisions. Eric knows he lost to Gerald over the NCMP very marginally, like 1-2 votes, despite the key people in CEC (LTK and SL) preferring a younger NCMP and LTK pep talking the CEC. Hence, though he did not solely bulldoze, he was blamed as influencer. Although that margin made the world of difference, Eric himself was foolish to resign. That's the issue. You leave, you can't get back what you were trying to achieve.

I think LTK's leadership style is becoming more and more an open secret, so I don't think there's a need to try to withhold these opinions now.

I've always understood that LTK favours obedience and ability to toe the party line as the number one criterion for leadership within the party. YSL in fact is one of the key examples. The ability to connect with people and ability to handle different kinds of people is also a primary criteria for candidate selection, as long as the first quality is present. If 1st quality is absent, still got chance to be candidate, but you're basically running on your own steam and certainly no special treatment given to you. I'm sure ex WP members can testify to that.

Between someone who is charismatic, forceful, and politically effective, and someone who is willing to play LTK's ball and support him all the way, LTK tend to favour the second fella. That is why YSL is MP of Hougang.

As for people who claim that it cannot be all LTK's decision as WP practices the concept of collective leadership which includes voting, etc, you post answers it very well. That is basic politics, and happens to some extent in all parties. Personal influence matters a great deal. Collective leadership is sometimes just a formality. Again, that is also one key reason why YSL has been in the CEC for a long time, past sagas notwithstanding.

LTK has never been democratic as he believes that is not the way to run WP. He believes he knows best, as evidenced by his long tenure as an MP who has fought and won every election since 1991 (no walkovers, unlike PAP candidates). Now that well be true. But in an opposition party, that management style sometimes invites backlash. This is because unlike the PAP, an opposition party offers no material or tangible reward for political participation save the rare instance when a seat in Parliament is won. The rewards are all intangible, and that is not enough for a great many people.

People have egos, and they need recognition, especially when there is no material advantage being in the opposition. Once you kick their egos and brush people aside, that is when trouble starts. Unlike the PAP there is no monolithic identity to fall back on. Once a person feels he has been sidelined, or ostracized, that is when he or she rebels. That is basically Goh Meng Seng's story.

Once LTK makes it clear that he wants to put down a person, that person often feels that he has no future in WP. That is basically Chia Ti Lik's and James Gomez's story.

Once LTK makes it clear that he no longer values a person like before, that person often feels inclined to look for greener pastures elsewhere. That is Lee Wai Leng's and Abdul Rahim's story.

Once a person feels that his years of hard work has been rudely brushed aside, he also feels inclined to go out in a blaze of anger. That is Eric Tan's story.

 

[Perspective]

In my view, you're not more than a bit off on the stories of all of them except JG and ET.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

In my view, you're not more than a bit off on the stories of all of them except JG and ET.

I'm way off, or a bit off, on the majority of them????

 

[Perspective]

I'm way off, or a bit off, on the majority of them????

To clarify, it's hard to measure. CTL and AS (Salim not Rahim) wanted a party that speaks up more. I share the same view. Their own position inside the party mattered a bit more to CTL than AS though, but not in the scale of ET or JG. LWL had practically nearly nothing to do with politics. Perhaps more business politics, but shall not reveal more as it is personal.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Yes, Salim not Rahim. Honest mistake.

 

[Forvendet]

Despite that there may be few close calls on critical decisions. Eric knows he lost to Gerald over the NCMP very marginally, like 1-2 votes, despite the key people in CEC (LTK and SL) preferring a younger NCMP and LTK pep talking the CEC. Hence, though he did not solely bulldoze, he was blamed as influencer. Although that margin made the world of difference, Eric himself was foolish to resign. That's the issue. You leave, you can't get back what you were trying to achieve.

At first, my sympathy was with Eric Tan. I felt he should be rewarded at least one term as NCMP. But on further thoughts, I could see the point. If ET got his one-term NCMP and is retired after that, it'll be five years worth of exposure and experience lost to Gerald Giam who is certainly not going to be retired as one of those young and promising enough to be earmarked for future party leadership. It's cruel to ET but in politics, sometimes and somethings have to be done that way to succeed. I don't know how WP internal voting process for candidates work but I think that it's so far so good. At least, gaining more seats and grounds against PAP.