Global Military Power Rankings

[longbow]

In a way our military is like how a bank is built. All bank HQ have this fortress like look of granite and steel and we have all seen their huge 4 3 ft thick steel doors to their safes. So it gives an impression of security - just like the SAF with the shiny weapons.

But just give a demolition crew half a day with their heavy equipment and mounted jack hammers we see used in demolition work and they can reduce everything to rubble.

So SAF gives that impression of strength to investors.

 

[Windsor]

If you have lived in Indonesia and seen how their soldiers behaved, you can see the training and discipline that had been instilled in them. It is second nature even for those who has left or retired. I have been to Brunei too, and I can say they too are fiercely loyal to their King. I, having been in the army in the past cannot say the same for our boys. We have the government to thank for making us disloyal and I hope the day will come when I can be as fiercely motivated as those poorly equipped soldiers in the Philippines and Indonesia.

 

[scroobal]

Thought I will wait and see before I add on.

Some of you are right, we can't hold the ground and we will never hold the ground. We don't have the numbers nor the mindset to hold the ground. The affluent families would have sent their families overseas, the FTs would naturally return home etc. So the whole strategy is predicated on not holding the ground. If we can't hold Malaysia, we certainly can't hold any other country. Having said that here is the gist.

1) The entire mechanism is based on deterrence. Similar to what France had during the cold war. Pre-emptive and first strike are the main tactics. It will be airforce and armour. Note the restrictions on Malays for so long. The manoveures and training would have given hint of the strategy. The idea is to destroy key targets and sensitive installations within first few hours. This reduces the fighting capacity to a point where international intervention in terms of military and political would expect to occur.

2) The are alot of assets in South Africa, US, France, Australia, Thailand, etc I am talking about military assets. This is second strategy. Not to compromise all assets at one tiny location - the island of Singapore. 2 Prong - In the event of a surprise attack, we don't give up everything. Secondly, after the expected intervention, the second assets will come in to replenish or to supplement to engage for the longer duration.

3) The third strategy is in the event of a long drawn war, the war cabinet and military command will move to Perth. Kuwaiti government had it in Cairo and we will do exactly what the kuwaitis did during the gulf war. Start liquidating the sovereign funds and assets to pay for the war. Japan during the first Gulf war, paid for much of the costs upfront, the US and its allies provideds the troops. The Kuwaitis paid back in full. The reason many 3rd world countries agreed to take part is that their cost will be covered and Kuwait was rich.

The first strike capability is immense. The air force alone is bigger than most countries in this part of the world including OZ and NZ. To be frank, the Malaysians and the Indonesians have given up. Part of the reason why NS has been reduced the regulars in the army have been cut down.

 

[Windsor]

Thought I will wait and see before I add on.

Some of you are right, we can't hold the ground and we will never hold the ground. We don't have the numbers nor the mindset to hold the ground. The affluent families would have sent their families overseas, the FTs would naturally return home etc. So the whole strategy is predicated on not holding the ground. If we can't hold Malaysia, we certainly can't hold any other country. Having said that here is the gist.

3) The third strategy is in the event of a long drawn war, the war cabinet and military command will move to Perth. Kuwaiti government had it in Cairo and we will do exactly what the kuwaitis did during the gulf war. Start liquidating the sovereign funds and assets to pay for the war. Japan during the first Gulf war, paid for much of the costs upfront, the US and its allies provideds the troops. The Kuwaitis paid back in full. The reason many 3rd world countries agreed to take part is that their cost will be covered and Kuwait was rich.

The first strike capability is immense. The air force alone is bigger than most countries in this part of the world including OZ and NZ. To be frank, the Malaysians and the Indonesians have given up. Part of the reason why NS has been reduced the regulars in the army have been cut down.

I agree with most of your statements. Basing it on first strike is fair if that happens, if not then it will be a debacle. To give the enemy their due, they too will pre-empt the first strike, so it is not a guarantee we can have that advantage.

In the scenario of a prolonged and protracted war, the plan is set that the command and control will be in Oz. That is well and good and should we win the war and return to a war-torn island, what is left of Singapore? A deep safe harbour, not many citizens left, not much money after paying off war debts and what else of great value remain?

Unlike Kuwait, we do not have the oil wells that can be re-activated and all the wealth underground. Our wealth is mostly made from services offered. We have good plans no doubt, but whatever happened, it is not going to be pretty. I sincerely hope it will never come to that stage.

 

[Loofydralb]

I agree with most of your statements. Basing it on first strike is fair if that happens, if not then it will be a debacle. To give the enemy their due, they too will pre-empt the first strike, so it is not a guarantee we can have that advantage.

In the scenario of a prolonged and protracted war, the plan is set that the command and control will be in Oz. That is well and good and should we win the war and return to a war-torn island, what is left of Singapore? A deep safe harbour, not many citizens left, not much money after paying off war debts and what else of great value remain?

Unlike Kuwait, we do not have the oil wells that can be re-activated and all the wealth underground. Our wealth is mostly made from services offered. We have good plans no doubt, but whatever happened, it is not going to be pretty. I sincerely hope it will never come to that stage.

That is why I shall repeat it here:

WE WILL NEVER GO TO WAR.

We will lose even when we win. Its a lose-lose situation for us.

So all imaginable preemptive actions will be undertaken, except the declaration of war. In the end it will come down to an open negotiation. Much will be compromised. We will live on to fight another day on the economic front.

Now after thinking about this for a moment, I cannot see any issues we have with our neighbours that is grave enough to warrant a fight. Nor do I see they have any too. For the next 15 years at least we don't have any use for the SAF except for the NDP.

 

[Windsor]

That is why I shall repeat it here:

WE WILL NEVER GO TO WAR.

We will lose even when we win. Its a lose-lose situation for us.

So all imaginable preemptive actions will be undertaken, except the declaration of war. In the end it will come down to an open negotiation. Much will be compromised. We will live on to fight another day on the economic front.

Now after thinking about this for a moment, I cannot see any issues we have with our neighbours that is grave enough to warrant a fight. Nor do I see they have any too. For the next 15 years at least we don't have any use for the SAF except for the NDP.

True, we cannot afford a war, but we have to ensure we are one or maybe two up when it comes to being better equipped as a deterrent. Apart from that, we still need to be as accommodating as possible to avoid any friction, as we try our best to remain good friends.

 

[scroobal]

Since we do not hold much natural wealth. The sovereign funds are actually a lot deeper. It is includes rebuilding cost from worse case scenario. Avoiding war is of course the main challenge.

None of the neighbours have first strike capability. They gave it up long time ago. They however do have an advantage. They can create a climate of tension and war and that alone will destroy the economy. Singapore will go to war if one of these 2 conditions are met
1) if there is a clear pattern of activity that will create a climate of war like tension. Troops assembling, main units leaving bases even for training, locating certain assets. This also includes war exercises. Our alert level was raised sometime ago during the national day when Malaysians and Indonesians began war exercise in Johor on that day. A diplomatic note was sent.

2) Water supply .

The singapore has made very clear that pre-emptive strike is the major option moment a threat is imminent. This is done thru a series of diplomatic notes and the summoning of High Commisoner over the years when they do something threathening.

I am sure they are not going to have another exercise on National Day.

That is well and good and should we win the war and return to a war-torn island, what is left of Singapore? A deep safe harbour, not many citizens left, not much money after paying off war debts and what else of great value remain?

Unlike Kuwait, we do not have the oil wells that can be re-activated and all the wealth underground. Our wealth is mostly made from services offered. We have good plans no doubt, but whatever happened, it is not going to be pretty. I sincerely hope it will never come to that stage.

 

[longbow]

All great to have first strike capability but irrelevant given the size of Malaysia or Indonesia. Just think about it will us 30 mins to hit KL - so they have a 30 min head start. They can reach almost anywhere in Singapore with 155 howitzers (low tech) placed in the plantations

On the other hand, even without superior weaponary, it does not take much for Malaysia to takeout out power plants, water purification, incinerators, sewerage treatment plants. Even airport runways can be easily taken out.

Jurong Island can easily be set ablazed.


Once the water, power supply and sewerage treatment is gone, office buildings with their fixed glass curtains are too hot to work in. Lack of potable water and rotten trash will be a health hazard. Remember that Singapore is a very densely pop city set in a hot humid tropical weather.

Unlike Kuwait we have no oil to come back to. Our assets (port faciltities, cranes, MRT, bridges) can easily be destroyed (kind of hard to destroy oil reserves 2000 ft underground). Our attraction as a safe place to invest and live is gone. Overnight the ang mor suddenly realize that we are just a few miles from largest muslim pop in the world.

And should our neighbors remain restive, even the shipping business is gone. Any idiot with an RPG can make ship vulnerable along Straits of Malacca.

What we will have is a bunch of rich gov officials living overseas. All that weapnary placed overseas is useless. How are you going to bring it back and place it against the enemy. In US invasion of Iraq, US used Kuwait as Saudi/Kuwait as staging area. i doubt if Thailand will offer the same

 

[eatshitndie]

when a city-state has over a million chinese nationals out of a total of 5 million, it becomes a china issue.

 

[Loofydralb]

Since we do not hold much natural wealth. The sovereign funds are actually a lot deeper. It is includes rebuilding cost from worse case scenario. Avoiding war is of course the main challenge.

None of the neighbours have first strike capability. They gave it up long time ago. They however do have an advantage. They can create a climate of tension and war and that alone will destroy the economy. Singapore will go to war if one of these 2 conditions are met
1) if there is a clear pattern of activity that will create a climate of war like tension. Troops assembling, main units leaving bases even for training, locating certain assets. This also includes war exercises. Our alert level was raised sometime ago during the national day when Malaysians and Indonesians began war exercise in Johor on that day. A diplomatic note was sent.

I am sure they are not going to have another exercise on National Day.

I think the international community was laughing their asses off when Singapore jumped when Malaysia and Indonesia twitched. There was not an issue critical enough nor was it worth to wreck SEAsian economies.

What it showed up was LKY's willingness to agitate the whole region over an insignificant issue. The vaunted Singapore intel network was not good enough to suss out the real intent behind the exercise.

Don't bet they will not do it again. Both sides are doing many stuff to test each others response without the public knowing. No one really believes RSAF fighters don't overfly Johor. Theres no smoke without fire. The Malaysian RMAF just cannot be bothered to play on this. They've got other priorities like trying to trace where they last parked their MiG-29s.

 

[Cestbon]

All great to have first strike capability but irrelevant given the size of Malaysia or Indonesia. Just think about it will us 30 mins to hit KL - so they have a 30 min head start. They can reach almost anywhere in Singapore with 155 howitzers (low tech) placed in the plantations

On the other hand, even without superior weaponary, it does not take much for Malaysia to takeout out power plants, water purification, incinerators, sewerage treatment plants. Even airport runways can be easily taken out.

Jurong Island can easily be set ablazed.


Once the water, power supply and sewerage treatment is gone, office buildings with their fixed glass curtains are too hot to work in. Lack of potable water and rotten trash will be a health hazard. Remember that Singapore is a very densely pop city set in a hot humid tropical weather.

Unlike Kuwait we have no oil to come back to. Our assets (port faciltities, cranes, MRT, bridges) can easily be destroyed (kind of hard to destroy oil reserves 2000 ft underground). Our attraction as a safe place to invest and live is gone. Overnight the ang mor suddenly realize that we are just a few miles from largest muslim pop in the world.

And should our neighbors remain restive, even the shipping business is gone. Any idiot with an RPG can make ship vulnerable along Straits of Malacca.

What we will have is a bunch of rich gov officials living overseas. All that weapnary placed overseas is useless. How are you going to bring it back and place it against the enemy. In US invasion of Iraq, US used Kuwait as Saudi/Kuwait as staging area. i doubt if Thailand will offer the same

You are right. Singapore war with Malaysia/Indonesia sure lose. Singapore will never be rebuilt because there are no resources and meaning less to rebuilt. If consider Singapore as a strategic or pit stop for shipping.
World better invest in Thailand to dig canal.

 

[eatshitndie]

the uncyclopedia says it all. the saf is the best fighting force in the world because it has never lost a single war. lol.

 

[Forvendet]

You are right. Singapore war with Malaysia/Indonesia sure lose. Singapore will never be rebuilt because there are no resources and meaning less to rebuilt. If consider Singapore as a strategic or pit stop for shipping.
World better invest in Thailand to dig canal.

I agree, sure to lose. I also don't think the Thai canal can be built since Malaysia will want a say and a stake too. Such negotiations will go round and round until frozen and forgotten.

the uncyclopedia says it all. the saf is the best fighting force in the world because it has never lost a single war. lol.

Never won a single war too.

 

[zeddy]

the uncyclopedia says it all. the saf is the best fighting force in the world because it has never lost a single war. lol.

Ha..Ha..Ha.. This is funny... yeah they are right... SAF never lost a single war.....but in war games actually...

 

[scroobal]

Bro, you completely misunderstood what is first strike capability.

It does not mean first to shoot. In a first strike capability, you decimate your enemy's capacity to launch any attack for weeks and possibly by months. Its a well organised plan where you knock out everything that is important out. It's means an airforce with no planes, no radar, no military high command, extensive jamming of signals, no deployment capability etc.

"First Strike" is not two words put together, it carries a distinct meaning militarily and politically. Also closely aligned with "Pre-emotive"You are confusing a surprise attack with first strike. You can spot a country's philosophy of first strike by their excessive acquisition of airforce and highly mobile deployment capability assets. There is only 2 countries that fall into this category - is Israel and Singapore. It's is an expensive proposition.

Let me draw an analogy - you and your neighbour staying in landed property have an argument over cars being parked. Such scenarios involve throwing of insults, the occasional punch-ups and damage to your property. Lets assume there is no local law enforcement and courts similar to countries fighting. In first strike capability, your neighbour comes home from work to find his entire house burnt down, including his family. He is not only homeless, it will take a long while before he can function meaningfully.

It has nothing to do with you throwing the first punch when he is not looking.

All great to have first strike capability but irrelevant given the size of Malaysia or Indonesia. Just think about it will us 30 mins to hit KL - so they have a 30 min head start.

 

[scroobal]

The idea is not to win the war. It will never win in the long run unless the international committee intervenes. The idea is to make the proposition of war so unpalatable to your enemy. When the cost is too high for your enemies, there is recognised restraint.

Anyway if you are intelligent, you would have already put one foot in a developed country with a second home, your kids immersed in a developed country's education system and have no issues making a short move. Nearly every single senior civil servant and people in Singapore corporate world have done that. Its called forward planning. Nearly every cabinet minister has a home in Perth, in the event that cabinet has to move with short notice.

You are right. Singapore war with Malaysia/Indonesia sure lose. Singapore will never be rebuilt because there are no resources and meaning less to rebuilt. If consider Singapore as a strategic or pit stop for shipping. World better invest in Thailand to dig canal.

 

[copperhead]

Since we do not hold much natural wealth. The sovereign funds are actually a lot deeper. It is includes rebuilding cost from worse case scenario. Avoiding war is of course the main challenge.

None of the neighbours have first strike capability. They gave it up long time ago. They however do have an advantage. They can create a climate of tension and war and that alone will destroy the economy. Singapore will go to war if one of these 2 conditions are met
1) if there is a clear pattern of activity that will create a climate of war like tension. Troops assembling, main units leaving bases even for training, locating certain assets. This also includes war exercises. Our alert level was raised sometime ago during the national day when Malaysians and Indonesians began war exercise in Johor on that day. A diplomatic note was sent.

2) Water supply .

The singapore has made very clear that pre-emptive strike is the major option moment a threat is imminent. This is done thru a series of diplomatic notes and the summoning of High Commisoner over the years when they do something threathening.

I am sure they are not going to have another exercise on National Day.

You are totally right on the strategy of tension. FTs leave (it is well within their right to leave), investment leaves, military no longer well equipped by Year 15. But no cause for war from Year 0-14.

Any country can have nukes. They are simply 1940s technology + widely available uranium. Unfortunately getting nukes will give them an excuse to get them, and they are willing to lose 100 cities in exchange for 1 of ours.

In fact, an "accident" at a nuclear plant in Batam will be enough.

 

[Liquigas]

Inspite of our formidable military capability amd awesome air power, do we really have the means to stop enemy special forces from landing on our shoreline? Once landed, they can easily reach the Istana which is only 10 km from changi in the north and pasir panjang in the south....

 

[da dick]

Inspite of our formidable military capability amd awesome air power, do we really have the means to stop enemy special forces from landing on our shoreline? Once landed, they can easily reach the Istana which is only 10 km from changi in the north and pasir panjang in the south....

who cares about the fucking istana? you tourist?

 

[Loofydralb]

Bro, you completely misunderstood what is first strike capability.

It does not mean first to shoot. In a first strike capability, you decimate your enemy's capacity to launch any attack for weeks and possibly by months. Its a well organised plan where you knock out everything that is important out. It's means an airforce with no planes, no radar, no military high command, extensive jamming of signals, no deployment capability etc.

"First Strike" is not two words put together, it carries a distinct meaning militarily and politically. Also closely aligned with "Pre-emotive"You are confusing a surprise attack with first strike. You can spot a country's philosophy of first strike by their excessive acquisition of airforce and highly mobile deployment capability assets. There is only 2 countries that fall into this category - is Israel and Singapore. It's is an expensive proposition.

Let me draw an analogy - you and your neighbour staying in landed property have an argument over cars being parked. Such scenarios involve throwing of insults, the occasional punch-ups and damage to your property. Lets assume there is no local law enforcement and courts similar to countries fighting. In first strike capability, your neighbour comes home from work to find his entire house burnt down, including his family. He is not only homeless, it will take a long while before he can function meaningfully.

It has nothing to do with you throwing the first punch when he is not looking.

Singapore will look like the neighbourhood bully if it did that. The repercussions are fatal.

Our neighbours know that they can calibrate the tensions so as not to appear as the unreasonable party. Whoever throws the first blow will be the loser. For us its a lose-lose game.

We are better of cooperating and give the occasional donations during times of natural distress.