“Over the past decade, in U.S. war games against China, the United States has a nearly perfect record: We have lost almost every single time.”
https://www.sammyboy.com/threads/“over-the-past-decade-in-u-s-war-games-against-china-the-united-states-has-a-nearly-perfect-record-we-have-lost-almost-every-single-time-”.285734/#post-3124437
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...8e1bba-948b-11ea-9f5e-56d8239bf9ad_story.html
Here’s a fact that ought to startle every American who assumes that because we spend
nearly $1 trillion each year on defense, we have primacy over our emerging rival, China.
“Over the past decade, in U.S. war games against China, the United States has a nearly perfect record: We have lost almost every single time.”
That’s a
quote from a new book called “
The Kill Chain: Defending America in the Future of High-Tech Warfare,” the most provocative critique of U.S. defense policy I’ve read in years. It’s written by
Christian Brose, former staff director of the Senate Armed Services Committee and a close adviser to late senator John McCain (R-Ariz.). The book isn’t just a wake-up call, it’s a fire alarm in the night.
USA WON AGAINST NICARAGUA, GRENADA AND PANANA.
THATS ABOUT THE WARS USA WON SINCE WW2
In Korea where USA firepower was at least 100 times more than China and China industrial might was much less than sub Sahara Africa , the Chinese whacked USA and the UN combined that they had to flee south of the Parallel as demanded by China.
And what about Vietnam?
What ws the military edge USA had over Vietnam and China who supported Vietnam with boots on the ground.
About 100 or more to 1?
Didn’t USA had far far greater military technology supremacy over China and Vietnam?
Firepower of USA which included B52s, battleships, Spooky gunships? Helicopter gunships and who threw everything into fighting Viets including toilet bowls?
Your memory so short?
Maybe this can refresh your memory.
How about this!
Mylai rings a bell? A moment to be proud of ? Among many other moments like Mylai.
Help to boost up the numbers for body counts! Small or big, young or old, still bodies to be counted!
USA fought with gunships, battleships, fighter planes from carriers, B52s, massive firepower and total air superiority, against pajamas clad fighters with flip flops from used truck tyres firing AKs and RPGs.
And with courage as they fought for freedom and their land whereas USA fought to enshrine corrupt dictators.
You proud of that?
I wish you joy in such kind of pride.
This was the end result.
You remember this ? Or too painful?
What was the military edge USA have over a bunch of separate goat herders in Afghan? Do not even need the entire fucking country of Afghan.
10,000 to 1 ?
Or is it the Afghan goat herders have military technology greater than USA??
I finished reading “the Outpost” by Jake Tapper. How a bunch of goat herders in Afghan with AKs and rpgs and IEDs (because they do not have billion dollar industry to make bombs like USA, can only make bombs in backyard on a DIY basis) taking out USA brave men despite they having 155 howizters , 120 mm mortars , Ma Deuces, A-10s, properly build bombs, B52s and helicopter gunships , AC-130 Spectre Gunships and billions of dollars backing them and not so good in protecting them.
If USA fought bravely with massive firepower behind them, then what about the goat herders with only AKs and RPGs fighting against USA knowing they fighting against 155 howizters , 120 mm mortars , Ma Deuces, A-10s, properly build bombs, B52s and helicopter gunships , AC-130 Spectre Gunships ?
Even more fucking brave is the least I can say of the Afghans goat herders. Who were untrained knowing only how to herd goats unlike the USA special forces who went through countless hours and weeks and months learning how to kill and kill.
Yet who won? And who left Afghan?
Maybe USA army should consider making their fighting folks do a course in goat herding . As who knows, maybe herding goats might be better to build up fighting skills.
USA got fucked when USA tried that in Afghan . Against a bunch of tribesmen when USA had 1000 the firepower over them. And after a trillion of dollars what have USA got to show in Afghan?
Why did the United States of America fail to win the war in Afghanistan even after 17 years? Why does the lone superpower fail to defeat a group of goat herders?
And in Somalia. A bunch of ex fishermen and part time goat herders with nothing more than AKs and RPGs chased USA out running with tail between legs
What military edge USA got in Iraq over Sadr? 1,000 to 1?
Or is it Sadr got better and more advanced military technology over USA?
In Iraq losing out to Sadr who had 1000 times less firepower than USA.
Having no more than AKs and rpgs.
USA want to invade China when China military technology is better and China with more fire power over USA?
Please do not have war with China.
Do not even think of a nuclear war with China because you think China got only 300 nukes and USA got thousands of nukes.
But if even one nuke land on China or Chinese forces, USA and all of USA bases around the world from Guam to Okinawa and Japan and Diego Garcia and Singapore and UK and Europe will become lakes and seas of molten glowing green and multicolored glass.
Wuming Chan's answer to Could China's 200 nukes realistically kill more than 50% of the US population in a nuclear war?
Wuming Chan's answer to Which missile can be considered as the world's most dangerous Intercontinental Ballistic missile (ICBM) ?
Will the quarrels and disagreements that lead to this war be relevant or even remembered once the war started?
Can this kind of war ever come to an end once started?
With all that’s said, fact remain that modern Chinese and Russian howitzers shoot further and have more bang and more accurate than USA howitzer.
That matter a lot more to the end user. Not involved convulated explanations like in here why that is so and talking of comparing of apples and oranges. Some of the answers kept saying USA control the sky and will use her planes to bomb targets first and thus do not need long range artillery. Seems that came from USA experiences in fighting sheep and goat herders and fishermen of Somalia. And even at that, appeared to be losing the war in Afghan and Somalia. USA think she will control the sky when fighting with peers or near peers?
USA is a distant third to Russia and China. Be that in tube artillery or rocket artillery.
**Chinese tube artillery**
Top 10 Self-Propelled Howitzers
Saudi Arabia uses Chinese NORINCO PLZ-45 self propelled howitzer for the clear advantage over that of the best of USA artillery. More accurate and longer reach than the best of USA artillery. And Saudi Arabia is USA captive country and yet refused to use USA artillery as that so inferior to China.
PLZ-52 is capable of firing a full range of Chinese 155 mm munitions. Range of a standard High-Explosive Fragmentation (HE-FRAG) projectile is around 30 km and around 40 km of extended-range projectile. Maximum range of fire is 53 km with rocket-assisted projectile. It has been reported that China developed a GPS-guided 155 mm projectile. It was claimed that this projectile has a whooping maximum range of 100 km and accuracy of 40 m.
Saudis Use Chinese-made Cannons in Yemen (
Saudis Use Chinese-made Cannons in Yemen
)
Rate of fire
Maximum:8–10 rounds/min
Sustained: 2 rounds/min
Look at the M109 below
Rate of fire
Maximum: 4 rpm/3 min.
Sustained: 1 rpm
Effective firing range
Conventional: 18 km (11 mi)
RAP
: 30 km (19 mi)
M109 totally outmatched by the PLZ-45.
It is not a wonder why even Saudi Arabia bought PLZ-45 despite they being a captive client country of USA and yet refused and rejected USA arty despite the obvious massive arm twisting of USA on Saudi Arabia.
**Rocket Artillery **
Now China is as good if not better than Russians in rocket artillery.
Top 10 Multiple Launch Rocket Systems (
Top 10 Multiple Launch Rocket Systems
)
The PHL 03 is a Chinese artillery rocket system. It is a copy of the Soviet
Smerch (
Smerch Multiple Launch Rocket System
)
. It reportedly entered service with the Chinese army in 2004-2005. The PHL 03 is also being proposed for the export customers as the AR2. It has been exported to Morocco (one battalion with 36 units).
The PHL 03 has 12 tubes for 300 mm rockets. A standard rocket weights around 800 kg and has a 280 kg warhead. Maximum range of fire is 70-130 km depending on the warhead type. Though some sources report that rockets of this system has a maximum range of 150 km. Rockets are available with High Explosive Fragmentation (HE-FRAG), fuel-air explosive, and cluster warheads with anti-armor and anti-personnel submunitions. Cluster warheads may also carry self-targeting anti-tank munitions. A full salvo of this system could potentially cover an area of up to 67 hectares.
**Even though the PHL 03 is a Chinese version of the Smerch, it appears that Chinese overtook Russians in terms of rockets, as rockets of the PHL 03 have longer range than those of the Smerch. Manufacturers claim, that Chinese 300 mm rockets are not compatible with the Russian Smerch rockets as these use different propellant motors and components.**
China's PHL03, advanced Multiple Launch Rocket System (
China's PHL03, advanced Multiple Launch Rocket System
)
Various types of the 300 mm caliber rocket shells fired by the PHL03 are equipped with simple automatic correction system which allows more dense impact points. The impact point intensity doubles and the accuracy triples. In this way, a high kill probability with fewer rocket shells is possible.
Comparison with its peers
From the table above, it can be concluded that in terms of overall design, or in particular, the range, intensity, power, survivability and maneuverability, the PHL03 MLRS has a series of major breakthroughs compared with traditional rockets. Some of its aspects meet or even exceed the world's advanced level.
The service of the PHL03 Multiple Launch Rocket System has greatly enhanced the capability of remote fire support of the Chinese military. The operational performance of the system will continue to improve with the development of China's rocket shell technology. And it will become an indispensable remote firepower for the Chinese military.
And read this too
China’s new PCL191 multiple launch rocket system casts shadow over Taiwan Strait
- The ‘mystery’ hardware that appeared without a name at the National Day parade in October is the PLA’s most powerful MLRS ever, experts say
- System capable of firing eight 370mm rockets 350km or two 750mm ballistic missiles 500km
China’s new PCL191 multiple launch rocket system is capable of firing ballistic missiles up to 500km. Photo: Handout
The multiple launch rocket system (MLRS) that made its public debut at China’s
National Day parade
on October 1 has been identified as a state-of-the-art piece of weaponry capable of firing both rockets and ballistic missiles, according to a leading military magazine.
A report in the latest issue of
Modern Ships also gave the new hardware a name – the Type PCL191 – saying it was a modular launcher based on the AR3 system developed by China for the export market.
Unlike other weapon systems on display in Beijing, which had their names emblazoned along their sides, the Type PCL191 rumbled through the streets of Beijing on the back of heavy-duty trucks with almost complete anonymity.
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/mil...91-multiple-launch-rocket-system-casts-shadow
Note the DF100s antiship missiles . Revealed only in Oct 2019. Mach 5 and range of 1000 km.
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/chinas-df-100-missile-good-enough-kill-americas-navy-96476
China got 3000++ of Mach 3s YJ-12 and YJ18 to throw against the 11 carriers USA want to bring to their self declared FONOP.
Or at least 300++ Mach 3s on each carrier group.
Assuming only 20 % of those will hit. So be assured that at least 10 missiles will hit the carrier and not just 1 missile.
And not just the warhead, there will be 2–3 tons of missiles coming behind the warhead at Mach 3 tearing into the bulkheads and ordnance and aviation fuel and the poor men and women in the carrier. Those 2–3 tons of missile body will be tearing in the bulkheads faster and more deadly then APFSDS. Andf carrying its own unburned fuel to add to the fun.
Even steel will burn when hit with hell fire and tons of steel and debris coming in at Mach 3. The aviation fuel, and paint on walls, the bombs and ordnance will all cook off and add to the huge huge fire inside the carrier. Regardless if carrier under Condition Zebra or Donkey or Jackass.
The brave sailors in those carriers will not care or worry and be happy that their carrier not sinking. And only burning and burning from one end to the other end.
Remember in just ten minutes, China missiles will destroy all the fucking airbases and naval bases in Japan and Guam. And in the next 30 minutes, Chinee cruise missiles by the thousands will take out whatever the fuck the missiles left in Japan.
Whether the mosquito is female or male will also be known.
Your stealth F35s or B1s B2s got smaller radar profile than a mosquito?
China Using Radar To Combat Mosquitoes
China is using military technology to wage war ... on mosquitoes
USA or Israeli got any systems able to do that?
Thank you USA for enforcing ban on China in purchasing that from Israel or other countries.
Forcing China to do it all on its own and leaving you either far behind or far far behind.
**And Chinese air weaponary. To splash the air tankers and AWACs and JSTAR USA rely on to direct the fight in the air. And the Stealth planes of USA.**
How China's Clever New Missile Could Cripple American Air Power
China's Mach 6 Monster Air-to-Air Missile Could Make the U.S. Air Force Come in for a ‘Crash Landing’
This is what USA Airforce Secretary got to say in 2018
Air Force secretary: China, Russia could shoot down new JSTARS on day one of a war
There will be no usable bases for USA airforce in Japan or Guam within the first 10 minutes of the war.
First Strike: China's Missile Threat to U.S. Bases in Asia
A Missile 'Pearl Harbor': How China Could Win a War Against America?
Missile Strikes on U.S. Bases in Asia: Is This China's Real Threat to America?
Those bases will all be hit and cratered by DFs with conventional warheads so planes cannot take off.
Go into above to see photos of strikes made by Chinese on model setups in the Western desert of China that represent hardened bunkers for planes and runways and dock settings with models of Burkes and Ticos and the bases HQs to see the pin point targetting of the DFs.
Naval assets and head quarters will all be hit and sunk and taken out of play.
Then Chinese cruise missiles will fly by the thousands to take out planes still stuck in those bases.
As for shooting war at the sea. And forgetting for time being the DF-21Ds and DF-26Bs and CM-401s that China have and figment of imagination in heads of USA Admirals.
Just on AShMs.
Xi Jinping's Rocket Force is nullifying U.S. military primacy in Asia
And if you think China got 260 nukes, think again.
Read below as to the nukes China is likely to have.
Wuming Chan's answer to Could China's 200 nukes realistically kill more than 50% of the US population in a nuclear war?
Wuming Chan's answer to Given that China has thousands of kilometres of "underground nuclear wall", is it credible that it has only 270 warheads?
China already got the world most deadly ICBM the DF-41 .
Wuming Chan's answer to Which missile can be considered as the world's most dangerous Intercontinental Ballistic missile (ICBM) ?
The DF-41 is a three-stage solid-fueled intercontinental ballistic missile reported to have a maximum range of up to 15,000 kilometers (more than 9320 miles) and a top speed of Mach 25 (19,030 mph). It is said to be capable of carrying up to 10 multiple independently targetable reentry vehicle (MIRVs). Its launch preparation time is estimated to be between 3 to 5 minutes.
China has at least 100 DF-41s, operational and organised in 4 Brigades.
As by Jan 2017, Chinese media have reported the deployment of three brigades of DF-41 ICBMs. There is photographic evidence of a possible fourth brigade of DF-41 ICBMs on the Tibetan plateau. However, we have only counted the number of DF-41 ICBM TELs (ie. Transporter Erector Launcher).
It is inefficient to fire only one ballistic missile per launcher. It is more logical to fire two ballistic missiles per launcher. This process is called re-loading. A DF-41 TEL can either be re-loaded with another DF-41 ICBM missile nearby or the DF-41 TEL can drive to a hidden re-supply location for another DF-41 ICBM.
If you accept that China has one re-load missile for each DF-41 TEL then the total number of Chinese DF-41 ICBMs has to be doubled.
Four brigades of DF-41 ICBMs (Heilongjiang, Henan, Xinjiang, and Tibet Provinces) with one re-load per DF-41 TEL yields 96 total DF-41 ICBMs.
4 DF-41 ICBM brigades x 12 DF-41 ICBM ballistic missiles per brigade x 2 (for the re-load) = 96 total DF-41 ICBMs
Which can send 10 MIRV thermonuclear warheads at Mach 25 15,000 km away.
JL-3 is the navalised version of the DF-41.
China Conducts First Test of New JL-3 Submarine-Launched Ballistic Missile
The first test of JL-3 successfully done in Dec 2018.
Currently, 6 numbers of 096 SSBNs are being build simultaneously.
Carrying 24 JL-3 missiles , each mirving 5–7 warheads.
Type 096 Tang Class SSBN
This is similar to Ohio Class
China is going to have a even Bigger Big Brother to stand beside DF-41. And even more deadly ICBM should ‘Muricans want to be funny.
The Next China Military Threat: The World's Biggest Mobile ICBM?
In addition to many Chinese satellites above, togther with 25,000 meters high flying drones Divine Eagles and Soar Dragons, and acoustic sonars on sea beds, there is this too.
News of advanced Over-the-Horizon programme for carrier fleet emerges as senior research receives China’s top science award
China’s new ‘compact’ radar will cover an area the size of India
This will be on Chinese Navy ships that will see and can see ‘Muricans carriers and Burkes and Ticos over the horizon way way before ‘Muricans can see the Chinese ships.
And if ‘Muricans chose to attack China and have war with China, this will be the way that war will take place.
Wuming Chan's answer to How long would actual intense combat last in a full scale conflict between the US armed forces and the People's Liberation Army waged in Asia?
China will never attack USA and start the war.
So how likely will it be that ‘Muricans decide to attack China and have that war?
Then you will get a war that is likely to lead to WW3.
You still looking forward to that WW3?
Still happy at steaming carriers in South China Sea that likely will escalate into WW3?
Still want to provoke wars with major countries that likely to escalate into WW3?
Will the quarrels and disagreements that lead to this war be relevant or even remembered once the war started?
Can this kind of war ever come to an end once started?
Isnt it so fucking stupid to even let the war start in the first place?
Isnt that other alternative a lot better?
Young men and women of both countries and all countries should smell roses, make love and drink and dine and laugh and go enjoy sunrises and sunsets and play with their kids and children.
How about remaining Be Nice Be Respectful and work together for a better world?
And let all those lethality toys remain toys to be admired like Hydrogen bombs . Seen and known, and never ever to be used in anger or sorrow.
Young men and women of both countries and all countries should smell roses, make love and drink and dine and laugh and go enjoy sunrises and sunsets and play with their kids and children.
China promised never be the first to use nuke
But if even one nuke land on China or Chinese forces, USA and all of USA bases around the world from Guam to Okinawa and Japan and Diego Garcia and Singapore and UK and Europe will become lakes and seas of molten glowing green and multicolored glass.
The irony is that more likely than not, China might well be the only country to have the thermonuclear bomb. China thermonuclear bombs are build to the Yu Min configuration . Which required very little maintenance. USA and Russia uses the Ulam Teller configuration requiring a lot of maintenance.
Each warhead needs to have about 200 milligrams of fresh tritium added every year. Here’s a pic showing W80s having their gas changed.
So how many of USA thermonukes are actually working in between the bouts of maintenance? Not likely you get the answer.
