Floodwater drainage in Sinkapore oredi gone case ! More sorry cummin'......

[longbow]

My question is after the last 2 50 year floods that turned Orchard into Venice what are the plans to solve the problem.

Pointless to blame mother nature right? I have yet to see any concrete plans to widen canals, drill new underground drains etc etc.

Also, was there any 3rd party study of the problem? Where is the weakness in our drainage system.

So if we are going to experience heavy rainfall going forward then what are the plans to cope with this changing env. I see nothing so far.

At the very least admit that this is a once a year rain event so better invest more $$$

 

[dankos]

If U can provide me with data on rainfall that was similar to the one yesterday or last year in Orchard to another time before the Marina Barrage was built and yet no flood then I will tell U why

I already stated my opinion on this, Weather changing, drainage system planning model maybe outdated. They need to re-investigate this. Read my post again before U anyhow hatam :oIo::oIo::oIo:

u fucking cheebye pap dog,

happen last year in orchard, in bt timah. this year in west coast, amk. all these not enough stats is it? fuck u. your pap master vivian already said the rain pattern has changed. so wtf r they still tackling the flood patterns based on old stats. too stupid is it. :oIo::oIo::oIo::oIo:

 

[HTOLAS]

First, the rain yesterday was heavy but not "beyond ridiculous" - I have seen heavier rain in the last 20 years that have NOT resulted in flooding, certainly not of the 5 Jun 11, 17 Jul 10, 25 Jun 10 and 16 Jun 10 variety. The last time there was flooding severe was in April 2004 but that episode occurred after five hours of the type of rain we saw yesterday.

And how has the weather changed? I observe that the most significant change is not the increase in intensity of downpours as suggested by you but by the increase in episodes of downpours over a given period. This means that our drainage cannot now handle what it previously could. I've asked PUB for the rainfall stats over the last 50 years but they have prevaricated on how I could get them. So what has changed?

I am also glad you noticed the very quick discharge of water after the flooding. I noticed that in all the episodes of flooding last year and this. I would add this. The water would rise very quickly, stay for half an hour or more despite the rain having lightened to a drizzle, or even stopped. And then, as if "somebody pulled a plug", it would discharge very quickly. Unlike you then, I do not conclude that it is evidence of good drainage. On the contrary, it suggests that water had been held back by some impediment and then let go too late.

Which brings one to the MB. Any idiot knows that the MB on its own would not cause flooding - there needs to be rain or some other events. The question is, "what effect has the MB had on the rate of flow of rainwater during a downpour?" My initial observation is that it has slowed that flow significantly - I live near the Rochor Canal and have observed it before and after the MB. This slowing is probably because the desired water level (which makes it an effective reservoir) is too high for it to be effective flood control. There might even be the effect of water rushing into barrage and "bouncing back" into the drainage, creating more difficulty in outflow.

Solution? Speaking as a layman, the PUB may have to accept a smaller catchment in MR, i.e., lower the level. They also need to consider discharging water, either by opening the gates or working the pumps, a lot earlier.

My opinion on this.

Rain: The rain that came down yesterday was beyond ridiculous. I'm sure no one here will dispute the fact that we have seldom if ever seen a rain that heavy in the last 20 years. Which means the official word from PUB on how much rainfall there was yesterday probably have some truth to it. We've seen some strange weather in recent years, less rain during the monsoons and more cool weather the previous few years and ridiculous amount of rainfall in the last 2. Is the climate changing? I am incline to believe so.

Drainage System: A lot of pple have been condemning the drainage system claiming it doesn't work. I beg to defer. We have frequent heavy rains and only having 3 serious floods in the last decade proves that it is adequate for most situation. The fact that the floods subside within a short period of time after the rain stops is further proves that the system is doing it's job. We have to put things in perspective, the rains during the Orchard flooding and yesterday's Central area flooding was due to an extraordinary amounts of rainfall within a short period of time. Something which no human engineering in the world could account for given the lack of precedence.

It doesn't mean I don't think the government shouldn't do something about it. As stated above, for all we know, the climate maybe changing. The model they used during the planning of the current drainage system maybe outdated. They need to relook, rethink and remodel the entire system to ensure that this does not happen again

*Oh yeah just to add onto the theory of the Marina Barrage being the cause of all this. I am not totally ruling out that possibility but the barrage was open since 08. We only had our 1st serious flood last year so even if it did play a part. I believe it's a combination of all the above rather then just the barrage alone

 

[karmabear]

@CharAzn: I am starting to understand why you are so disliked. You come across trying to be "logical" but use misleading data points. Example, your quote on 3 floods in the last decade (pointed out by your buddy, dankos)... We have 3 serious floods recently, of which, the last two 2, have resulted in Orchard road flooding. What do you mean "lack of precedence"? Back in the 80s, there was a severe flood in Bukit Timah, which after rectification works, did not occur again until recently. JB was raining too, but we don't see JB central flooding.

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On to more important matters:

"The Marina Barrage is part of a comprehensive flood control scheme to alleviate flooding in the low-lying areas in the city such as Chinatown, Boat Quay, Jalan Besar and Geylang.

During heavy rain, the series of nine crest gates at the dam will be activated to release excess storm water into the sea when the tide is low. In the case of high tide, giant pumps which are capable of pumping an Olympics-size swimming pool per minutewill drain excess storm water into the sea. As the water in the Marina Basin is unaffected by the tides, its water level will be kept constant all year round. This is ideal for all kinds of recreational activities such as boating, windsurfing, kayaking and dragonboating etc.
http://www.pub.gov.sg/Marina/Pages/3-in-1-benefits.aspx#fc

My question is... are we sure that the pumps are sufficient in case of heavy rainfall over a widespread area?

One Olympic pool is about 2,500 cubic metres or 2.5 million litres. Marina Barrage pumps can discharge 1 millimeters(mm) of rain water collected over a 25 square kilometre radius every minute. Singapore's land area is 710 square kilometres. This is what we know.

According to PUB, 65mm of rain fell within 30 minutes. This was "worse" than the last time when 100mm of rain fell within 2 hours. They should use the same time period so comparisons can be standardised. Not use different time periods to mislead the public.

Source: (http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1133345/1/.html

What we have to find out... How much catchment area does the Marina Barrage cover? How much more pumping capacity is needed at the barrage? If pumping capacity is limited, is it feasible to keep the water level at the Marina Barrage lower since they have the ability to keep the water level constant? This way, you build in a margin of safety.

Now bear in mind, these points are made very quickly by a HDB dwelling non-scholar who likes to spew vulgarities . So, I am sure our Minister and his highly paid and qualified scholar team should be able to come out with much better points and solutions. Hopefully we can see something before the next flood?

 

[streetsmart73]

lianbeng asks u, "they have exchanged concrete jungle for natural forested jungle what u expect? no more trees to absorb rain water and no more soil to absorb flood water liao lor."

hi there


1. what an expensive concrete tank man?
2. with so many heavy-top expensive sheep blah away.
3. yet still flooded!
4. call it retribution or what.

 

[streetsmart73]

nothing to do with math, those came out from different ass opening

hi there


1. uncle, bingo!
2. the former was some m&d, the latter some mixed or what!

 

[streetsmart73]

That was a draft entry I was planning to post in my blog. I just posted it here first. If U can find a PAP handbook on this let me know. Next time I just copy and paste from there.

U pple want free speech and opinions and when someone post something which ISN'T condemning PAP(nothing in my article that praise them either), he gets flamed. :oIo::oIo::oIo:

hi there


1. you are one big c*#^ sucker.
2. sucking up big time leh!

 

[FuzzyDude]

Anyone remember the flood in 78 ?? It rain continuously for one week !
The flood was so bad we could not go to school... some people have to be evacuated... That is once in 50 years flood.
The rain yesterday is nothing in comparisons. We are in the tropics, rains like that happen all the time. Singaporeans have really.. really short memories.

 

[HTOLAS]

Well said.

I would add that around Christmas in 1984, it rained several days and resulted in some flooding, not the widespread inundation over the last year and a half.

Anyone remember the flood in 78 ?? It rain continuously for one week !
The flood was so bad we could not go to school... some people have to be evacuated... That is once in 50 years flood.
The rain yesterday is nothing in comparisons. We are in the tropics, rains like that happen all the time. Singaporeans have really.. really short memories.

 

[Char_Azn]

Solution? Speaking as a layman, the PUB may have to accept a smaller catchment in MR, i.e., lower the level. They also need to consider discharging water, either by opening the gates or working the pumps, a lot earlier.

Glad we more or less agree with most of the points except for the way it's interpreted. Like I said earlier, I suspect the climate is changing but PUB was stuck using an older, less relevant model during the planning of the current drainage system. It maybe because of the outdated model used during the planning of the Marina Barrage which contributes to one of the factor which coz the flooding. The solution like you said may simply be a case of storing less water and opening the pumps sooner

 

[dankos]

Glad we more or less agree with most of the points except for the way it's interpreted. Like I said earlier, I suspect the climate is changing but PUB was stuck using an older, less relevant model during the planning of the current drainage system. It maybe because of the outdated model used during the planning of the Marina Barrage which contributes to one of the factor which coz the flooding. The solution like you said may simply be a case of storing less water and opening the pumps sooner

fat ass,

suspect what suspect? i used to suspected u look like a sadfuck pui cheebye. when i 1st see your blog, my suspicion were confirmed.

 

[HTOLAS]

Sorry, we DO NOT agree on "most of the points". And I, too, begin to understand the venom directed at you.

We disagree, for instance, on how the weather has changed. You contend that episodes of rain now tend to be much heavier and thus cannot be handled by the norms of the PUB which have been around for a long time. I said the intensity of the rain has not changed much and should have been handled by pre 2007 norms.

I also said that the MB has created a NEW situation which has caused the inundation. By implication, it is the main cause of much of the flooding. You seem to think it is only minor.

The one thing we do agree on is that lowering of the water level and earlier activation of gates / pumps at MB might help.

Finally, the big difference is that while you try to propagate the impression of a capable government making a few mistakes, I believe this has been a government demanding of its civil servants Tamerlane projects in Samarkand.

Glad we more or less agree with most of the points except for the way it's interpreted. Like I said earlier, I suspect the climate is changing but PUB was stuck using an older, less relevant model during the planning of the current drainage system. It maybe because of the outdated model used during the planning of the Marina Barrage which contributes to one of the factor which coz the flooding. The solution like you said may simply be a case of storing less water and opening the pumps sooner

 

[Zombie]

This time the focus is on Tanglin Mall.

Possible reason??
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/1089439/1/.html

PUB awards S$22m Orchard road-raising contract
By Mustafa Shafawi | Posted: 26 October 2010 1651 hrs

SINGAPORE: National water agency, PUB, has awarded a S$22 million contract to raise a stretch of Orchard Road (from Orange Grove Road to Cairnhill Road) to protect it against flash floods.

Tanglin Mall is about 300-400m outside the stretch of Raised Orchard Road.

Maybe TM is at the lowest level by now, and flood water comes from Napier Road on one side and Orchard Road on the other.

 

[Seee3]

Just wondering,

1. How long does it take for the MB gates to be fully open to release water at full capacity from the time of activation or for the giant pump to operate at full capacity (I think such giant equipment needs to be started in sequence or the power will trip)

2. How long does it take for a decision to be make to release water and who makes that decision? Is it automated?

Maybe the devil lies in these precious time lost.

 

[IR123]

Orchard rds and malls will continue to see floods for another 50 years as long as there are heavy rains.

This is not exepcting perfection, a well planned concrete junlge can handle any torrential rains or monsoons.

Many parts of sinkapore will also face floods when there are heavy downpours !

Tsunamis and earthquakes are not frequent but when one occured at the right spot, there is a nuclear disaster. It is not enough to say that such flash situations can happen and there is nothing we can do about it. After all, it occurred once in 500 years.

Floods erode soil. Damaged infrastructure. It occured more than once in 50 years. To find the solution, one must know the cause.

Has the Government of Singapore managed to find the cause?

 

[IR123]

Just wondering,

1. How long does it take for the MB gates to be fully open to release water at full capacity from the time of activation or for the giant pump to operate at full capacity (I think such giant equipment needs to be started in sequence or the power will trip)

2. How long does it take for a decision to be make to release water and who makes that decision? Is it automated?

Maybe the devil lies in these precious time lost.

Is that the cause of the flooding or a solution to the flooding? Either way, it is easily resolved. If the top brains cannot find a solution and if the choice is between flood damage and the ineffective operation of a machine, then decommission the machine until newer technology or better brains come on board.

 

[Hans168]

Sinkapore oredi like fish tank, so-called a badly planned concrete jungle.

You see, when you want more tall concrete thingys, you need to think drainage before you dig in ! You dont just make new drains to join other existing drains !

Orchard rds and malls will continue to see floods for another 50 years as long as there are heavy rains.

This is not exepcting perfection, a well planned concrete junlge can handle any torrential rains or monsoons.

Many parts of sinkapore will also face floods when there are heavy downpours !

yes, frequent flash floods may not be dangerous but it shows the island oredi not liveable in many parts of sinkapore !

The problem lies with planning of inadequate drainage, it will take a huge cost to alter this situation !

Meanwhile, more tongue dancing and more sorry cummin your way .....and flood problem persists for another 50 years....tragic !

They did it well for cars: add more, add more roads & highway - at least some lah although objective is to rip off the motorists again for another reason: ERP - more money into the coffers but jam remains or becomes worse.
For housing & building dranage hardly grow with buildings. Why? NO ERP mah, so not motivated to spend money on drainage........... or simply clueless what is going on?

 

[IR123]

Something which no human engineering in the world could account for given the lack of precedence.

Given the lack of precedence, the question is did human engineering cause the flood?

The Marina Baggage could be one of the factors. Other factors include the removal of grass patches, the building of infrastructure to cater to the government's initiative of being mother to the world.

Have we therefore reach the stage where the government's workings resulted in irreversal situations wherein we are now at the mercy of the weather?

That is why people are asking the government to do something and at least one of the government leaders is blaming the weather. Find the cause so that the people will not need to speculate.

If the government does not the capability to determine why they FAILED in managing the flood situation, then who can do it?

Put it another way: the weather may be screwed up but you, the government, still need to find a solution. The people rely on you.

 

[Chun Li]

"Looks like my investment for a bomoh to delay the flood after elections has paid off.
Sorry Vivian. Hehe"​

 

[Leongsam]

So if we are going to experience heavy rainfall going forward

What other direction is there to go?