Exit Permit

[loneshark]

In many cases, it is not a straightforward case of migration.

I have seen many cases of overseas postees from Singapore, their male offsprings having lived and studied most of their lives overseas, and do not want to go back after high school. Most of them have PR-ships, and a few of them won scholarships (bond free) to good colleges. Of course the school will not keep the scholarship for you if you were to go back for 2 years NS. I have seen 2 cases of heck-care-I-am-not-going-back. The parents are very upset because they know their children can never set foot into Singapore. I have spoken to the mother. Very sad situation.

So the question is, should the parents have "anticipated" this and carried out route 2 - NS exemption via migration, to avoid all these heartache?

For a boy to decide at age 13 is a little difficult. Say, if the parents have started the exemption via migration route at age 13, but in between 13 and 21, things happen and the family is unable to continue overseas and they have to return to Singapore. Would there be any penalty if the boy then wants to keep his Singapore citizenship, and do NS?
At which point would he have passed the point of no return?

 

[scroobal]

Email faster bro - [email protected]

Thanks for your reply bro Scroobal. I'll probably write to CMPB with my son's name and birth cert no. and get them to direct me.

 

[scroobal]

The name is not the primary key used by authorities the world over. You can change the kids name to a totally different even send him for plastic surgery and it will not help. Name change is an old wife's tale.

The primary key is DOB, the secondary is place of birth. The DOB is there not to present you with a special welcome on your birthday when you arrive but to hit you against a defaulter base. Bear in mind we are looking at date as well as year of birth. Then it is a series of elimination questions and steps. You cannot deed poll the DOB or place of birth.

 

[scroobal]

A kid's biggest problem is not the authorities but his parents. I know of parents who have migrated overseas and will not contact the authorities, will not provide address or contact details. How to process anything. Sadly some of them are well educated and have held senior positions.

Feel sorry for the son as he grows up and watch his parents and sisters happily visiting Singapore but he cannot.

Then you have the ignorant ones including some well educated ones who actually think that all males born as Singaporeans cannot be exempted and therefore have to return to serve NS despite migrating early.

The worst case that I came across is a PHD who is a Poly lecturer who migrated with his family, returned after his family got citizenship and enrolled them in International school in Singapore for 2 years. Got the shock of his life when told cannot be exempted. Son is now a defaulter.

 

[loneshark]

A kid's biggest problem is not the authorities but his parents. I know of parents who have migrated overseas and will not contact the authorities, will not provide address or contact details. How to process anything. Sadly some of them are well educated and have held senior positions.

My question is what if the parents want to keep their options open for the next few years?
On one side, take the PR, and sit through the naturalization years.
On the other side, apply for NS exemption.
These take several years. In between, are they able to U turn and decide to stick with Singapore citizenship (and do NS)?
When planning, we look far ahead, but things do change. So it is good to know at which point a hard decision has to be made.

 

[Leongsam]

Feel sorry for the son as he grows up and watch his parents and sisters happily visiting Singapore but he cannot.

There is no difference between not visiting Singapore and not visiting Timbuktu. Both are insignificant on the world stage. If the kid grew up in another country and does not consider Singapore home, not being able to set foot there will make not one iota of difference to his life.

I know numerous Kiwi kids of ex Singaporeans who were coerced into visiting the country of their birth to check out their "roots".. After 3 or 4 days, all they wanted to do was go home.

 

[Satan]

Email faster bro - [email protected]

Bro, I have tried emailing them at this email address but the staff there in question says that I've got to place a bond, seems like she doesn't have a clue about this. Such being the case, would it be better if I were to go directly to CMPB?

 

[Satan]

In many cases, it is not a straightforward case of migration.

I have seen many cases of overseas postees from Singapore, their male offsprings having lived and studied most of their lives overseas, and do not want to go back after high school. Most of them have PR-ships, and a few of them won scholarships (bond free) to good colleges. Of course the school will not keep the scholarship for you if you were to go back for 2 years NS. I have seen 2 cases of heck-care-I-am-not-going-back. The parents are very upset because they know their children can never set foot into Singapore. I have spoken to the mother. Very sad situation.

So the question is, should the parents have "anticipated" this and carried out route 2 - NS exemption via migration, to avoid all these heartache?

For a boy to decide at age 13 is a little difficult. Say, if the parents have started the exemption via migration route at age 13, but in between 13 and 21, things happen and the family is unable to continue overseas and they have to return to Singapore. Would there be any penalty if the boy then wants to keep his Singapore citizenship, and do NS?
At which point would he have passed the point of no return?

Which is the reason why migration has got to be for the right reasons. You've got to research on the opportunities in your host country and ensure that you are very clear about them. Many Sinkees have the idea of returning to Sinkeeland if their host countries don't work out and its because of this, they don't put in their best and as a result couldn't make it and have to return to Sinkeeland. You can consider returning to Sinkeeland if you are a filthy rich dude or if your parents, you or your relatives have businesses where you could get involved in. In the case of any average Joe however who have migrated to places like US, Canada or Australia and enjoyed the quality lifestyle there with all the nice sceneries, with cars, having lived in a landed property and having looked at nice Ang Moh chicks, do you think he'd want to come back to Sgpore and serve NS, live in a HDB and take public transport????

 

[Satan]

There is no difference between not visiting Singapore and not visiting Timbuktu. Both are insignificant on the world stage. If the kid grew up in another country and does not consider Singapore home, not being able to set foot there will make not one iota of difference to his life.

I know numerous Kiwi kids of ex Singaporeans who were coerced into visiting the country of their birth to check out their "roots".. After 3 or 4 days, all they wanted to do was go home.

Many people who have moved to Western Countries will not like the Singapore lifestyle.

 

[chupacabra]

Also those who have migrated to much further cuntries would rather spend their ticket fares on other destinations like EU or the US. Why bother traveling 15 hours or more to peesai from Canada...When ex sinkees can cross the pond and go to EU under 5 hours. Traveled to Amsterdam from Toronto airport once and it took only 5 hours if I can remember.

That said by the time my kids turn 21, peesai would be a deeper shithole. I can't imagine how much it will cost just by travelling on the MRT in 15 to 20 years from now and probably there will be alot of construction going on in peesai by then as most buildings will be more than 50 years old.

 

[scroobal]

Try sending a fresh email along these lines plus the Header

Header - "NS Exemption plus Renunciation of Singapore Citizenship"

" My family has migrated to country x and this is our new home. I understand that my son cannot renounce his citizenship until age of 21 and that he has to apply for NS deferment until then. Could you forward me the application forms to take steps to do this. My age is now aged x and his details are as follows."

Do not mention exit permit etc.

 

[chupacabra]

MINDEF have idiots working on the other end of the line. I have never applied for exit permit and have been issued warning letters lots of times. I remember once they called my house and threaten my mom trying to intimidate her.

It will take eons to get a reply by email.

 

[Charlie99]

Try sending a fresh email along these lines plus the Header

Header - "NS Exemption plus Renunciation of Singapore Citizenship"

" My family has migrated to country x and this is our new home. I understand that my son cannot renounce his citizenship until age of 21 and that he has to apply for NS deferment until then. Could you forward me the application forms to take steps to do this. My age is now aged x and his details are as follows."

Do not mention exit permit etc.

I assume the above suggestion also applies to those who have dual citizenship, but never live in SG.

 

[scroobal]

Yes it does bro.

I assume the above suggestion also applies to those who have dual citizenship, but never live in SG.

 

[scroobal]

They outsourced it and it got worse.

MINDEF have idiots working on the other end of the line. I have never applied for exit permit and have been issued warning letters lots of times. I remember once they called my house and threaten my mom trying to intimidate her.

It will take eons to get a reply by email.

 

[Satan]

Try sending a fresh email along these lines plus the Header

Header - "NS Exemption plus Renunciation of Singapore Citizenship"

" My family has migrated to country x and this is our new home. I understand that my son cannot renounce his citizenship until age of 21 and that he has to apply for NS deferment until then. Could you forward me the application forms to take steps to do this. My age is now aged x and his details are as follows."

Do not mention exit permit etc.

Thanks bro. Will try it.

 

[scroobal]

Sorry bro, this one is a bit of trapeze act.

I have heard of cases where the authorities have relented and that took multiple appeals. Relented means that they reversed the decline decision after the parents agreed to give up their citizenship. Typically when they decline they will not give you a reason.

Aware that some will like to keep the links as after retirement they might want to come back and spend their time here.

My question is what if the parents want to keep their options open for the next few years?
On one side, take the PR, and sit through the naturalization years.
On the other side, apply for NS exemption.
These take several years. In between, are they able to U turn and decide to stick with Singapore citizenship (and do NS)?
When planning, we look far ahead, but things do change. So it is good to know at which point a hard decision has to be made.

 

[scroobal]

Especially those who left at a very young age.

I know numerous Kiwi kids of ex Singaporeans who were coerced into visiting the country of their birth to check out their "roots".. After 3 or 4 days, all they wanted to do was go home.

 

[loneshark]

Which is the reason why migration has got to be for the right reasons. You've got to research on the opportunities in your host country and ensure that you are very clear about them. Many Sinkees have the idea of returning to Sinkeeland if their host countries don't work out and its because of this, they don't put in their best and as a result couldn't make it and have to return to Sinkeeland. You can consider returning to Sinkeeland if you are a filthy rich dude or if your parents, you or your relatives have businesses where you could get involved in. In the case of any average Joe however who have migrated to places like US, Canada or Australia and enjoyed the quality lifestyle there with all the nice sceneries, with cars, having lived in a landed property and having looked at nice Ang Moh chicks, do you think he'd want to come back to Sgpore and serve NS, live in a HDB and take public transport????

Agree with you. These kids would not want to come back, even if you drag them or threaten with cutting their $.
Agree that migration is a big issue. But sometimes it is not so clear cut. Heck, sometimes husband and wife don't even share the same view!

This leads me to think of kids from lands like China, Venezuela, Mexico. Where the head of house needs to be in the "fatherland" because this is where they have the "base", connection, business, career, etc. But they park their kids elsewhere where there is a better quality of life. When it involves splitting the family, it gets complicated.

It will not be so hard if there is no NS issue. Just take PR and stick with it. No need to change citizenship. There is more flexibility there.

 

[loneshark]

Sorry bro, this one is a bit of trapeze act.

I have heard of cases where the authorities have relented and that took multiple appeals. Relented means that they reversed the decline decision after the parents agreed to give up their citizenship. Typically when they decline they will not give you a reason.

Aware that some will like to keep the links as after retirement they might want to come back and spend their time here.

Thanks.
The current case I know is not a straightforward case of migration.
The family has green card. But the father plans to return to Singapore because that is where the money is. However the kids left since toddlers, and will put up a fight if they were to be shipped back for NS. So the father reckons the kids would rather stay in US, while he returns. Hence the only "legal" way of exempting the kids from NS is by changing citizenship.
I think the father is still having "what-ifs" thoughts. I told him time does not wait. He has to decide soon.