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Crumbling of Singapore?

mojito

Alfrescian
Loyal
Thanks for sharing these videos. I respect your opinions of the two ladies..

In other words you don't necessarily agree but will like to close discussions. heh...

Rare to see young ladies so well mannered and composed these days. The world would be a better place with more lasses like you and less lads like me. Wish my kids grow up like you but alas the odds are stacked against them with role models like myself. :smile:
 

Fook Seng

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Leongsam said:
If you worry about personal space, you're not going to like Tokyo. As for maintenance problems. I'm sure they aren't ongoing. There'll be hiccups and then things get better. These sorts of problems can occur anywhere. People try to save money and they realise it's more costly to skimp on maintenance. It's not a long term problem

I don't mean to say it cannot be solved. Just change the CEO. I think you agree with me on that. You don't need a CEO with retail experience to bring in retailers. Give the terms of reference to an agent. He can do a pretty good job. It is important to know where the priority is and where your main revenue comes from. The next CEO must be very focused.
 

johnsgp1

Alfrescian
Loyal
In 1968 there was no opposition. The leaders of the opposition parties were behind bars or had fled the country. Those left were too scared to stand for election. Only 7 constituencies were contested.

It was like a football match where one team had 11 players and the other team only had 2. There was no need for gerrymandering or manipulation of election boundaries simply because only a few clowns stood against the PAP.

Hi Sam, how can you compare 1968 and now?
40 years ago everyone just need a strong leader to lead the country, all they need is a food on the table, and LKY did just that. He had to eliminate all his opponents to achieve what he want to achieve, and his method proved to be right.
40 years ago any leaders that head any countries had to be a strongman...people like Marcos, Suharto, Dr M, and even people like Hiter and Stalin did what they have to do to make their country strong. LKY is just one of them, and happens to be the most successful and honorable among them.
At least LKY did not follow any of their mis-steps which eventually lead to their own down fall and even drag the whole country into chaos. LKY step down and move aside.
40 years later, people are more educated and more connected, that is why they wan to have more freedom. Is a norm to see votes decline.

Just look at Russia now, do you think 40 years ago Russians dare to protest against their government? or will Arab Spring happen 40 years ago?
Every government in this millenium is facing the same problem..people are more informative and they tend to voice out more.
 

brocoli

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: He Planned All These

Crumbling of Singapore? REALLY???

Last month, if Singapore had been a person, it would have stood above the unwashed tableau of Occupy Wall Street (OWS), watching from its penthouse and laughing into its cognac.

But it has spent the year being a little down in the mouth, preoccupied with property prices, taxi fares and faulty trains.

This gloom is hard to explain in the grander scheme of things.

When OWS's gross simplification of the one per cent trampling on the 99 per cent is contemplated, Singapore is practically part of the world's one per cent.

This is a country where, every single day, 25 people bought either a Mercedes-Benz or a BMW for the first 11 months of the year.

In the same period, every four days, someone drove away from the Ferrari showroom with a big smile on his face. (One assumes that, each time, it's a different person.)

When it comes down to it, Singapore can be almost as Wall Street as Wall Street.

Last year, 8.5 per cent of New York City's workforce was on the payroll of the finance and insurance industries.

Singapore had about 6.4 per cent of its resident population on it, while Hong Kong had 6 per cent.

If a demonstrator with anti-banking invective to expend were to imagine the two as corporate entities - which is not hard - he would therefore be more inclined to picket Singapore than Hong Kong.

"One per cent" might be a dirty term these days, but would-be picketers here have to be careful about calling others names that might apply to themselves.

On a per-adult basis, Singapore has the sixth highest net wealth in the world: a mean value of US$284,692, according to the Credit Suisse Global Wealth Databook 2011.

"Net wealth" here is defined by a person's financial and real estate assets minus debt.

The mean value, however, gets short shrift from experts, since it ignores wealth distribution.

"(It is the) mean without information on inequality. A very high personal net wealth with high inequality is likely to imply a skewed prosperity within the country . . . Actually, it is not something we would like to boast about," says Ho Weng Kong, senior lecturer at SIM University.

The median net wealth figure then - which is less vulnerable to being yanked up or down by the obscenely rich or the devastatingly poor - sees Singapore ranked eighth out of 160 countries, at US$101,033.

On this score, the only countries that outrank it are Australia, Japan, Belgium, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg and the United Kingdom.

Last year, the odds of being born in any one of these countries, including Singapore, was 2 per cent - not quite the fabled one per cent, but close enough.

This is better than the best odds in the Singapore Toto (one in 321), but to properly appreciate the jackpot-like nature of being born in any of these eight countries, the rest of the world needs to be surveyed.

At the best end of the ovarian lottery, more than half the adults in Singapore belong to the wealthiest 8.8 per cent of adults globally.

And while the one per cent of the United States might be under the onslaught of scrutiny there, the global one per cent club is thriving in Singapore; two out of every 25 adults here can claim membership.

On the losing end of the ovarian lottery, however, only 0.3 per cent of the adults here have less than US$1,000 in net assets.

Perhaps it is not so much that Singapore is fabulously wealthy (which it is), but that the rest of the world is poor (very much so).

wealth24.jpg


Suppose you represent Singapore's population with 100 people riding on a bus.

If that bus were to stop at the world's poorest neighbourhood to let residents get off, less than one person would alight.

This shantytown, however, is where more than one-fifth of the world's adults have to live.

This says as much about the rest of the world as it does Singapore.

To be better off than half the adults on this planet, the threshold is heartbreakingly low. All it takes is US$4,200 in net assets.

'Only moderate inequality'

This perhaps goes some way towards clarifying why Occupy Wall Street took off but Occupy Raffles Place bombed in a way that would embarrass nitroglycerine.


Tropical humidity and legal concerns aside, the conditions for dissatisfaction are different.

In the United States, 10 per cent of the adults control 73 per cent of the wealth.

Here, the privileged group controls just 57 per cent, which translates to "only moderate inequality" in Credit Suisse's book.

Many, however, will take issue with "only" and "moderate".

Academics like SIM University's Dr Ho are quick to point out that "among the developed countries, we are at the very top" of the inequality stakes.

Based on numbers from the Central Intelligence Agency, Singapore is ranked 28th out of more than 100 countries on the Gini Index.

The higher the ranking, the greater the inequality.

Citigroup economist Kit Wei Zheng makes a sobering point about the lowest-earning 20 per cent here. For this group, in the first half of the noughties, "the rising Gini coefficient was partly due to declines in the absolute levels of wages", he says.

"While the period of fast growth in 2004-2007 did see wages for the bottom 20 per cent recover most of their earlier losses, wages of the rich rose much faster."

This means that the bottom 20 per cent of working folk have spent much of the last decade standing still - an unpalatable notion when the rest of Asia appears to be pelting ahead.

jhsg24a.jpg


Stuck in the middle with you

Mr Kit might have considered the plight of the working class and the prosperity of those flying First Class, but it is the condition of the middle class - this increasingly vocal and dissatisfied group - that is the most perplexing.

It is not clear what OWS's demographics are like, but in Singapore, the events of this year have been given over to middle-class angst, not proletarian anger.

"A concrete example of this discontent can be seen in the recent general election in which the PAP garnered its lowest percentage of votes . . . since Independence," says Kamaludeen Mohamed Nasir, an assistant professor of sociology at the Nanyang Technological University (NTU).

"The main issues . . . are a combination of the rising cost of living in Singapore and the lower standard of living . . . linked to the large increase of migration into the country over the last few years."

Even if the issues are articulated, clarity does not necessarily follow in this relatively new examination of middle-class ennui.

"To better understand the extent of these anxieties, more rigorous research is needed," says Prof Kamaludeen.

Tan Ern Ser, associate professor of sociology at the National University of Singapore (NUS), readily lists the lamentations of the middle class: a higher probability of downward mobility while being caught between the duties of filial piety and the obligations of parenthood.

Does the whinging bear listening to? This is harder to answer.

"Whether the issues are valid depends on the standards they compare their lifestyles with. If they were to compare with their parents' generation, they would be very satisfied. But obviously, they don't. They expect to live the Singapore Dream, equivalent of the American Dream," says Prof Tan.

But the American Dream is in tatters now.

Maybe looking West no longer riles the middle class as much as looking upward does.

Says Mizuho economist Vishnu Varathan: "Being disgruntled is always a relative thing. More often than not, it is the middle class who tend to be more disgruntled. They tend to be slightly more educated and upwardly mobile, so they are frustrated when they see the guy earning the $1 million salary.

"They might not be badly off. They might be getting their $80,000 or $100,000 a year, but they're disgruntled because they think, 'Hey, I know almost as much as that guy does. Why is he getting the $1 million salary?'"


Incidentally, to have come within even wine-sniffing distance of the $1 million salary last year, you would have needed to be part of the proverbial top one per cent of tax-paying residents, according to data from the Inland Revenue Authority of Singapore.

To be disgruntled about getting $80,000-100,000 a year, you would have to be unhappy about being in the top 28.37 per cent.

This excludes residents earning $20,000 or less and are therefore not taxed.


Why so glum, chum?

There is, however, the niggling worry about mobility.

Where this is concerned, experts struggle to be definitive on the matter, but it is clear which way they are leaning.

"Given my own research using limited Singapore data and an assessment of the political economy in Singapore, (my assessment) is that mobility is relatively low compared to other developed economies," says Irene Ng, assistant professor of social work at NUS.

Chia Wai Mun, assistant professor of economics at NTU, says that in Singapore, "there is a significant jump in the income and educational status of later generations relative to the earlier ones".

"However . . . intergenerational mobility . . . is low. Those whose parents were at the bottom tend to remain at the bottom and those whose parents were at the top tend to stay at the top."

It does not help either that even the asset-rich might not feel rich.

In the last quarter, residential property assets made up 50.2 per cent of total household assets here.

Says Citi's Mr Kit: "Having a large chunk of wealth plastered into your home may not necessarily be a good gauge of economic well-being, especially when there are limited avenues to monetise housing net wealth in Singapore."

Ultimately, the math of the middle class is a messy one.

But even the less mathematically rigorous endeavour of counting your blessings is hard when you do not have much time for it.

Last year, the average person in Singapore worked the most hours among developed countries, clocking 2,409 hours annually.

Norwegians worked just about half as hard: 1,414 hours.

Gallingly, Singaporeans were among the least productive, with the fourth-lowest gross domestic product per hour worked in purchasing power parity terms - while their restful Norwegian counterparts ranked first.

Whether cubicle drones here have themselves and Facebook-surfing to blame is as muddled as the larger issues that plague the middle class.

jhsg24b.jpg


OWS is, on tangible terms, a shadow of itself.

Last month, police evicted protesters from Zuccotti Park, the movement's flagship site.

Thousands of protesters-turned-homeless people melted into the night with no place to go.

Singapore, with its 87.2 per cent home ownership rate among residents, will not find answers in OWS.

That does not mean, however, that the questions will go away.
 

kukubird58

Alfrescian
Loyal
Re: He Planned All These

hahaha.....crumbling of Singapore......of course papee is far from perfect but then it will be interesting to know which country is the role model to aim for ( sorry I did not read all the 49pages and 960+ posts yet)
 
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Fook Seng

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
brocoli said:
if they can afford cars considering that cars are like 5 times more ex than anywhere else....10% can live in private housing... considering the crazy property prices here, they must be doing pretty well

To be disgruntled about getting $80,000-100,000 a year, you would have to be unhappy about being in the top 28.37 per cent.

This excludes residents earning $20,000 or less and are therefore not taxed.

Assuming an average car price of $100,000, if a 10-year loan is taken on 80% of this, you should expect a monthly service of around $800 pm. Add to this the fuel cost, say $300 to $400pm, insurance, road tax and maintenance, say $300 to $400 pm, the total outflow of owning a car is around $1,500 pm. If you use your car for work some part of it would be borne by your employer. As about 40% of HDB households owns a car, and HDB dwellers make up about 87% of the population, we can say that the total car ownership of households is around 50% including private housing, assuming every household in private housing has a car. That marginal car owner represents the median income family. That median salary is around $50,000 pa based on the BT data that you have supplied. Assuming a nucleus family of two working adults (this is a very rough assumption as there are many single or one working adult families), both earning median salaries, the household income is $100,000, maybe less if you take into account single worker families. The car in this calculation consumes 18% (more if only one member is working) of his income which is a high figure because his house will consume a lot more, and there is also personal tax and CPF contribution etc. Yes, Singaporeans love their cars and is a lifestyle choice because you have to sacrifice things like going for a good dinner. A good dinner with wine for a family of 4 once a week will almost equal the cost of a car. This might be what a western expat would enjoy more instead of a car, a different lifestyle choice. Car ownership will definitely hurt the pocket of the marginal owner.

I don't see your point of raising attention to the 28.37% who earns $80,000 to $100,00. In fact only about 8 % earn this salary, the top 20 % in fact earn above this level, nothing surprising about this as all economies have their rich and super rich. More important is the distribution of income. The largest group of income earners (3 times the size of the group who earn $80k to $100k) come from the $30,000 to $40,000 group, below $3,000 pm salary. More significant is the Gini Index of 48% based on CIA 2009 figures ranking Singapore 28th worst out of 100 economies. Most First World countries have lower (more equal) indices. Only some of lowest developed countries have poorer Gini. This really tells us how well our government treats its lower strata. Conversely it also tells us how well the elite classes are being treated. That explains the number of Mercs and Beemers on the road. There are two other interesting pieces of information your BT report tells us. One is that the Singapore worker works the longest hours than any worker in all other countries in the survey and Sam wants him to work even harder to save his poorer cousin. The second is while working harder, he is also one of the lowest (in fact, 3rd lowest) in terms of productivity or the amount paid to him for per unit work on a PPP basis. You can interpret that he performs work at a low job level (meaning either he is of a low education, or there are few jobs that match his ability) or he is underpaid for the job he performs on a PPP (which means what he gets, he cannot buy many things with it). Whichever way you look at it, it does not bode well with what the government has done. It would be interesting to hear the government's comments on these few points.
 

TracyTan866

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
In other words you don't necessarily agree but will like to close discussions. heh...

Opinions are formed based on a person's experiences, upbringing, character, values, etc..they are no rights nor wrongs. How cld anyone say that another person's opinion is wrong when all of us come with different perspectives and wear different glasses. If there are differences in opinions and both insist on their views, it's best to agree to disagree...no point pursuing:smile: But if they agree to discuss further maturely, why not?
 

TracyTan866

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Rare to see young ladies so well mannered and composed these days. The world would be a better place with more lasses like you and less lads like me. Wish my kids grow up like you but alas the odds are stacked against them with role models like myself. :smile:

I have seen enough to know that the world is not a bed of roses. Why add on to a stressed out world? If I can be civil abt the situation and make life a little better for others, why not?

No need to shout vulgarities like some forumners here do nor lose my cool...otherwise it makes the situation worse for everyone..right or not?
 
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TracyTan866

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: He Planned All These

hahaha....gugu, long time no see.
u seem to be describing my boss and ex-bosses also.

hahahaha...your boss and ex-boss must be following LKY's management principles. That principle works when people are kept in the dark and LKY has the only source of information. But once others have the same information, that principle crumbles..that's what is happening to SG..pap's management style will not work anymore
 

TracyTan866

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: He Planned All These

hahaha.....crumbling of Singapore......of course papee is far from perfect but then it will be interesting to know which country is the role model to aim for ( sorry I did not read all the 49pages and 960+ posts yet)

will SG crumble in future based on the what's happening now? or will SG do better if the pap persists on its governance style and refuses to change. that's the question!!
 

TracyTan866

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Re: He Planned All These

hahaha.....crumbling of Singapore......of course papee is far from perfect but then it will be interesting to know which country is the role model to aim for ( sorry I did not read all the 49pages and 960+ posts yet)

the aim is not to follow any country's example fully because we are not totally like that country. The aim must to know our own strengths , weaknesses, pecularities, adopt other countries' best principles and introduced our own governing models.

Know ourselves, adopt best practices, innovate, be creative, etc..these are the keys to our continued survivable
 

jw5

Moderator
Moderator
Loyal
Please tell us, is there a difference between "inequality" and being "inequitable"?

May I try to answer this?

inequality = everyone not the same = not a problem at all becos every country/the world is like that.

inequitable = people getting more or less than what they deserve = SG's serious problem.
 

TracyTan866

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
May I try to answer this?

inequality = everyone not the same = not a problem at all becos every country/the world is like that.

inequitable = people getting more or less than what they deserve = SG's serious problem.

sounds good:smile:
 

jw5

Moderator
Moderator
Loyal
Singapore has for years had three good things going:

1. Rapid devlopment and economic growth, led in part by a group of old guard leaders who despite their individual faults, were determined to build a nation collectively.

2. This in turn led to years of property appreciation and in line with world growth, some equity appreciation. Many Singaporeans are still living off this growth.

3. A "Singaporean' name also started to emerge, particularly in terms of a Singaporean professional or executive who was well educated, fluent in at least 2 languages and had strong integrity and resolve. Well, at least relatively to certain other nationalities.

Items 1 to 3 could be slowly eroding.
Economic growth is obviously slowing in line with world issues, and also since SG could be said to have reached an economic plateau. This, coupled with a new batch of leaders who do not really understand the meaning of public service or have become leaders more because of connections, compliance and obedience than capability, does not bode well.

Property and equity growth are obviously slowing down, and in some cases, turning south.

With a developing culture of materialism and a "me and my family first" mentality, the brand name is also deteriorating. Together with poor values being inculcated to children by the "parent-grandparent-maid" combination, the focus is now more on making money quickly. Look at the number of people u encounter on the streets trying to sell u something and make a quick commission. The biggest irony is that they inevitably start the conversation by saying "Don't worry, I'm not selling anything". Notice how many of these salesmen are earning commissions for supposedly charitable donations.

When you have the brand name, people from all over the world want to hire you and do business with you. Looking at the number of Singaporeans reported in the press as being wanted by interpol or committing CBT types of crime is a really worrying sign. Because of the eagerness to make a fast buck and live in luxury, the previous branding could be slowly fading.

Those who are adults now needn't worry too much and neither should those who are really rich, bright or connected. But to quote a woodpecker, I worry for those of u who are not rich and have young kids who are not bright. Life is going to get really tough for these kids.
 

TracyTan866

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
I worry for those of u who are not rich and have young kids who are not bright. Life is going to get really tough for these kids.

Well said. Singapore has fallen and the worst part is pap leaders calling Singaporeans bad names..It shows a society divided. Life is going to be tough for the next generation of Singaporeans. With no clear capable political leaders in sight...we will slide further before we can rise up again.

The question is how far will we slide?
 

jw5

Moderator
Moderator
Loyal
Well said. Singapore has fallen and the worst part is pap leaders calling Singaporeans bad names..It shows a society divided. Life is going to be tough for the next generation of Singaporeans. With no clear capable political leaders in sight...we will slide further before we can rise up again.

The question is how far will we slide?

We won't slide too far if there are a few good men and women who will step forward and offer themselves for public service and not mainly for the material benefits. Doesn't matter which party or what background.

Tough times will be inevitable because of excesses all over the world, not just in SG. But we need these good and capable people to ensure equitable (not equal!) allocation of limited resources. Not in terms of freebies, but allocation to the right projects, investments and causes.

My question is: Where are these good men and women and do they even exist?

PS: I asked this question in delphi before.
 

TracyTan866

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
We won't slide too far if there are a few good men and women who will step forward and offer themselves for public service and not mainly for the material benefits. Doesn't matter which party or what background.

Agree...Do you see any such men/women in the pap?

Will the pap allow any good Opposition men/women to influence their governance?
 
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TracyTan866

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
We won't slide too far if there are a few good men and women who will step forward and offer themselves for public service and not mainly for the material benefits. Doesn't matter which party or what background.

My assessment is that MPs like CSM can make a difference . But will pap embrace his ideas and recommendations?
 
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