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Crumbling of Singapore?
- Thread starter TracyTan866
- Start date
Please look at the issue.It could be Sam or Tom.Does it matter?Our charity is to put PAP propaganda lies to rest.
but it has nothing to do with PAP. Based on what has been shared with me and what I have observed, I can put this phenomenon down to two main factors: Family and Economics.
Here is some juicy stuff on PAP and Malaysian politics.The source is the welknown Malaysian critic Raja Petra -the DAP blue eyed boy.Raja's father was one of the pioneer of DAP.Of course these days Raja Petra credibility had become quite questionable.Notwithstanding ,as a royalty and whose mother is an Irish he has very deep insider knowledge of the people who walks on the corridor of Malaysian politics.This is what he said.
When Dr.Mathathir made a dramatic announcement in an UMNO general meeting that he gonna quit as a PM since he failed to uplift the bumpiputras.Everbody were in the state of shock except 1 who smiled.That was Abdullah Badawi,who is next in line for the premiership.Actually Dr.M choice for PM than was Najib since who owed his father his own political ascendancy.But Abdullah,who once directly opposed Dr.M which split the original UMNO and made it illegal --is technically the next in line.The meeting ended by Dr.M agreeing to stay for another year.
But Abdullah wanted to ensure that Dr.M quit politics forever.Here in Singapore LKY was delighted---finally he could see his nemesis politically defeated while his political future in Singapore is extended by his son.So Abdullah and LKY had similar interest.But since Dr.M was well entrenched and well respected in UMNO; Abdullah needs to buy UMNO delegates loyalty and their votes and therefore needed millions of ringgit.This is where PAP came in handy.Raja Petra writes that about 700 million swas sent to Abdullah for this mission.The intermediary was Khairy,the son in law of Abdullah who was educated in Singapore. This whole episode was exposed by accident.Because the fund was routed through Australia and their authorities became suspicious of terrorist funding.Finally the money was traced into UMNO coffers.
The rest is history.I don't have tell you folks how LKY praised Abdullah to the hilt as the the best PM Malaysia ever had.The fact was Abdullah was the worst performing PM in the entire history of Malaysia.....because their economy crawled and Chinese businessman panicked.And Abdullah owed LKY a fvour which must be returned.....So,the crooked bridge Mahathir built across the causeway suddenly stopped among other things.Enough said.
Again,how LKY and PAP interfered in Thai politics through Thaksin is another story entirely.My point is don't take PAP on its face value.
I Know What You Mean But ...
Sometimes, we do seems to get carried away with our anger but it is not without a real reason. Mao Zedong did exactly the same thing. When he said something about promoting democracy with a two party system, then what's happened ? The mainland only party was CCP. And these people must be loyal to this party ONLY. Wow ! What a vast difference !
NGOs sounds nice like a saviour from outer space like Superman. But, what was the reality ? Not many will qualify plus the obstacles they have to clear before a meagre sum is placed onto their hands. And some just kill themselves out of 'honour' ?
"Economically unproductive" is not an excuse. Every country that you go, you will still see a large proportion of population that aren't doing very productive things. The government has no choice but to constantly finding avenues to cater for these proportion of people to be occupied with a right amount of income for their survival or else ... They have their own unions, we do not.
PAP create job titles to suit themselves when the coffer is fat and loaded with goodies. They help themselves so do not worry for them. They have all sorts of evil plans to dig it out Leegally with his own 'law' or regulation. Your analogy about "nosediving of the economy in general" is like another boogeyman tactics used constantly by PAP again. This is the example to lock you up like a locked in customers who have got no choice but to continue - 上了贼船！Boarded a pirate ship !
Worse off ? Are we better off now ? But, I do think someone is better off than us in general. I think they are the ones that are NOT productive at all.
Sometimes, we do seems to get carried away with our anger but it is not without a real reason. Mao Zedong did exactly the same thing. When he said something about promoting democracy with a two party system, then what's happened ? The mainland only party was CCP. And these people must be loyal to this party ONLY. Wow ! What a vast difference !
NGOs sounds nice like a saviour from outer space like Superman. But, what was the reality ? Not many will qualify plus the obstacles they have to clear before a meagre sum is placed onto their hands. And some just kill themselves out of 'honour' ?
"Economically unproductive" is not an excuse. Every country that you go, you will still see a large proportion of population that aren't doing very productive things. The government has no choice but to constantly finding avenues to cater for these proportion of people to be occupied with a right amount of income for their survival or else ... They have their own unions, we do not.
PAP create job titles to suit themselves when the coffer is fat and loaded with goodies. They help themselves so do not worry for them. They have all sorts of evil plans to dig it out Leegally with his own 'law' or regulation. Your analogy about "nosediving of the economy in general" is like another boogeyman tactics used constantly by PAP again. This is the example to lock you up like a locked in customers who have got no choice but to continue - 上了贼船！Boarded a pirate ship !
Worse off ? Are we better off now ? But, I do think someone is better off than us in general. I think they are the ones that are NOT productive at all.
Why should Singaporeans be paid more for doing the same job? If the people you mention asked for the prevailing market rate, why would any business give the job to a foreigner instead of a local?
I hope some PAP bigwigs have noticed my efforts in defending them to the hilt and start the ball rolling towards towards some form of official recognition come National Day 2012.
My dedication to the cause of defending sound PAP policies and explaining these policies to the ignorant masses also deserves financial compensation in the form of a research grant to enable me to further improve the platforms for spreading the word.
That's where u are wrong. All S'poreans are asking for is a fair wage for a fair day job. Businesses are under-paying the foreigners and in fact are exploiting them. But then, the govt is ok with this because the GLCs are the biggest employers of foreign labors, so it benefit them alright. And since you obviously ignorant of the employment situation, let me be kind enough to educate you this. Foreign workers can accept a much lower pay because the exchange rate is in their favor, hence they can repatriate money back home. They can do so also because they are usually here alone, which mean that there expenses in S'pore is low and moreover their accomodation is provided for. A local worker has to contend with the high costs of living for his family plus accomodation expenses. See, Mr Leongsam, you yourself benefit a great deal from your own forum, because in engaging with us, you learn alot also. So u ought to be thankful.
The PAP has honed its policies over 5 decades based on an excellent understanding of the psyche of the people. It knows full well that in an Asian society, when someone labels a policy as "unfair", what they actually mean is "I want a slice of the pie too".
People have to learn the help themselves regardless of who is in power. I've lived through right wing govts, seen them booted out of office and replaced with socialist governments.
Did anything change on the ground?..not one bit. The poor remained poor. The rich remained rich. When the socialist governments raised top level taxes, the rich simply moved their assets out of reach of the taxman. In many cases, they also moved themselves out of the country and took up tax residency in Singapore where direct taxes are low.
The poor were given 20% more in welfare payouts under the socialist regime. However, for some strange reason, they were still poor after 9 years of "targeted assistance". The reasons for this may vary from individual to individual but the fact remained that the govt could not change the cause of their poverty and that was their inability to live within their means and do anything meaningful with their sorry lives.
In any competition, someone will always be last. You can hire the best coaches in the world for these losers but they'll still be last because we aren't all made the same.
The lasting legacy of the socialist government is a huge big hole in the country's reserves. The underclass they pledged to "lift out of the poverty trap" are still there in full force and they're still collecting their handout and expecting more. The rich are still enjoying their yachts, their expensive wines and their caviar.
If Singaporeans revolted tomorrow, took to the streets and threw out the PAP this coming Friday, sinkies would still be complaining about exactly the same issues 5 years on.
I'll accept the title of "Cynical Old Bastard" with pleasure.
If they are going to give you a medal, they will be offending hundreds of others who spent their time and effort opening MP's car doors, attend RC, MCC and CCC meetings, make abalone soups for residents, volunteer to guard mango trees, provided manpower and transport to supporters.
These are people who are prepared to lose their dignity, sacrifice their family name and even grovel to hold the PAP and the Govt in high regard.
These are people who are prepared to lose their dignity, sacrifice their family name and even grovel to hold the PAP and the Govt in high regard.
Hey Leongsam, not to worry, I had already nominated you in a separate thread started by TracyTan for The Biggest PAP Balls Carrier Award. Hopefully as u wish, that would catch the eye of PAP bigwigs and becomes a preamble of Nat Day Awards 2012. But again no worries, for this particular award, u will win hands down. What other similar awards would u like me to nominate u for, I will gladly oblige.
I forget to add... the socialist government also raised the minimum wage. The result?.. many large employers moved their operations out of the country while marginal local companies went out of business.
You can read about it at http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10504635
Wages that are legislated without taking productivity into account simply cannot be sustained. The end result is an increase in the unemployment rate.
You can read about it at http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10504635
Wages that are legislated without taking productivity into account simply cannot be sustained. The end result is an increase in the unemployment rate.
Families aren't overheads. Families are sources of income. In NZ, enterprising families who want to improve their lot do the following :
1) Husband does the hard work... mowing lawns... clearing gutters etc.
2) Wife works in the supermarket packing shelves.
3) 3 kids do the paper run before and after school.
This is in a first world country mind you.
What would stop a Singapore family doing something along the same lines....?
Answer to that is simple. S'pore is a 1st world country in the true definition of the term. It's said to be such by LKY, who in his mind, having a beautiful skyline at Marina Bay, having 2 casinos, bringing F1 here equals to being 1st world. The abdication by his govt of the ordinary folks and those beneath has already brought S'pore back to the 3rd world status. It's only people like yourself who are detached from the real S'pore world got con by LKY.
Sorry, a typo. What I meant is that S'pore is NOT a 1st world country in the true definition of the term.
You have not answered my question. Why can't all family members in Singapore chip in to earn money?
My detachment is a plus because it allows me to view the situation objectively.
Re: He Planned All These
if you have not shouldered the responsibilities of running a SG household and are not paying the bills, it's wise to learn from those who have. Just by spouting what the pap says and what the SG media report does not make you knowledgeable. In fact by repeating their lies shows your ignorance.
The trouble is that you dont realise it ..but others reading your posts or hearing what you say, know you have no substance but is only sound. Empty vessel makes the most noise
if you have not shouldered the responsibilities of running a SG household and are not paying the bills, it's wise to learn from those who have. Just by spouting what the pap says and what the SG media report does not make you knowledgeable. In fact by repeating their lies shows your ignorance.
The trouble is that you dont realise it ..but others reading your posts or hearing what you say, know you have no substance but is only sound. Empty vessel makes the most noise
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I agree...but I will not debate with someone who twists, wriggles and spouts half truths rather than debate
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count yourselves lucky to have entire lines of mrt up and running in a couple of years. how long did the northeast and circle lines take to get from final design to operation? how long did the east-west and north-south lines take? well, over here in the bay area, the bay area rapid transit (bart) just announced that they will start construction of the berryessa extension in mid-2012. project started in 2009 and planned passenger service to the berryessa extension from fremont (current end of line) is envisioned for 2018. 2018!!! one fucking station and a dozen miles of track from fremont to berryessa will take an entire decade less one year to complete. compare that to the circle line. i was in sg in 2009 and got wind of the circle line, when construction started. i posted the complete mrt plan with circle line in map in this forum when i returned to the bay area 2009. 2 years later, i stepped onto changi and found out the circle line was already completed and in operation. wtf?! here's the latest and most complete berryessa extension project timeline...
dec 2009 entered federal new starts program
dec 2010 received federal environmental clearance
feb 2011 federal funding recommendation
apr 2011 entered final design
dec 2011 design build contract awarded to skanska-shimmick-herzog jv
mar 2012 secure federal funding
jul 2012 construction begins
jul 2016 construction ends
aug 2016 system testing begins
dec 2018 system testing ends
2018??? passenger service may start
add 2 years to delays when it comes to bay area construction projects on a major scale. and remember this is only one fucking station at berryessa. by the time bart gets to the final destination in san jose, you and i can convalesce at the new hot spot viet cafe on hostetter and capitol. by then, the bikini chicks will be very old hens. *cluck cluck cluck*
....btw, how many stations does the circle line stop at?
dec 2009 entered federal new starts program
dec 2010 received federal environmental clearance
feb 2011 federal funding recommendation
apr 2011 entered final design
dec 2011 design build contract awarded to skanska-shimmick-herzog jv
mar 2012 secure federal funding
jul 2012 construction begins
jul 2016 construction ends
aug 2016 system testing begins
dec 2018 system testing ends
2018??? passenger service may start
add 2 years to delays when it comes to bay area construction projects on a major scale. and remember this is only one fucking station at berryessa. by the time bart gets to the final destination in san jose, you and i can convalesce at the new hot spot viet cafe on hostetter and capitol. by then, the bikini chicks will be very old hens. *cluck cluck cluck*
....btw, how many stations does the circle line stop at?
eatshitndie said:
But in the Bay Area you can drive right? And it is quite cheap to drive. Here a lot of the people depends in the buses and trains. Anyway it is never a couple of years to have a line up and and running in Singapore. The lines open in phases. That doesn't mean that if you wait two years between phases you take two years to build. Circle line was supposed to start operating in 2006. In the end?
I've decided there is no end to this debate. It's like debating religion.
The consensus amongst the PAP haters seem to disallow comparisons with other countries. This was evident from the get go in the first couple of pages of this thread.
All I can say is that until you have lived elsewhere, you won't appreciate what the PAP has done for the country and the speed at which they have done it.
While the country may not be the utopia that the govt proclaims, it does rank highly in many, many areas in independent surveys.
It's actually quite strange that many here seem to be asking for MORE government intervention in the lives of the population. I would have thought the nanny state was already far too omnipresent.
I would prefer a far more laissez-faire approach to running the country.
The consensus amongst the PAP haters seem to disallow comparisons with other countries. This was evident from the get go in the first couple of pages of this thread.
All I can say is that until you have lived elsewhere, you won't appreciate what the PAP has done for the country and the speed at which they have done it.
While the country may not be the utopia that the govt proclaims, it does rank highly in many, many areas in independent surveys.
It's actually quite strange that many here seem to be asking for MORE government intervention in the lives of the population. I would have thought the nanny state was already far too omnipresent.
I would prefer a far more laissez-faire approach to running the country.
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