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CPF updates........

eatshitndie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
isnt CPF a form of passive income?

it should be treated as a bonus nest egg. anyone who treats it as the main, or worse, sole means for retirement is a loser or ignorant fool by definition. if anyone is able to retire without considering cpf withdrawals has planned and execute well. for the astute, it should come as icing on the cake with cake being the main retirement ingredient, i.e. a cake that comprises a diverse portfolio including cash, real estate, stocks, annuities, dividends, etc. with this thinking sinkies will become financially independent.
 

tonychat

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
Over the weekend, was having lunch with one of my kaki when we spoke on cpf for retirement......
What he told me was quite surprising. He and the wifey bought their condo a few years back and understand they could have fully paid up their place.

Told me they just received their cpf statement and now it comes in a new format where they actually inform you of the total amount one have with just one glance. His is 450k, while the wifey is 350k. Or total of 800k.. They are in their early 50s.

He told me they are looking forward to take out the sum from their ordinary acct upon reaching 55. I told him they can look forward to a comfortable retirement.

This is excluding any savings they might have.......
I was very happy for them.....after all, their kids are all grown up.

POST the cpf statement and stop making wild statement just to create a post.

over the weekend, is a good start of a wild story.. i didn't know it has move on from "Once Upon a time"

is that what PAP low life only capable of?? making wild story??
 

tonychat

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
it should be treated as a bonus nest egg. anyone who treats it as the main, or worse, sole means for retirement is a loser or ignorant fool by definition. if anyone is able to retire without considering cpf withdrawals has planned and execute well. for the astute, it should come as icing on the cake with cake being the main retirement ingredient, i.e. a cake that comprises a diverse portfolio including cash, real estate, stocks, annuities, dividends, etc. with this thinking sinkies will become financially independent.

exactly.... if you are a seasoned investor... you will have total control of your investment which should be considered as an investment.. CPF is not an investment and you do not have control over it... and the word "IF" is used on such debate very often..

Bro, people who live in a country with huge landmass has many creative ways to have a self-sufficiency life upon retirement, and in your case, USA..

This has always been the way with citizens who live in big countries.. Sinkies are born and being brainwashed since young that CPF is a way for retirement.. it all seems like a fucking joke.. how can you retired on something that is a limited , depreciating ( due to inflation) commodity. and i have not added the minimum sum and all other bullshit on it too.

Compare to having a land, that gives you life .. that is a huge 180 degrees difference.
 

frenchbriefs

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Hello..is thailand the only country that has land???

i want to know where you get your education from????

isn't australia, malaysia has much more land than sinkieland too? and when did i talk about being a farmer? To grow your own food is considered a farmer?? farmer grow food mainly to sell and not for self-sufficiency retirement.. stupid fuck..

why the stupid ones makes the most noise... i guess empty vessel makes the most noise statement is darn true.

Then show me the statistic on how many sinkies has 500k ( oh, they didn't buy their HDB flat) in their cpf account and how does having 12.5k to 17.5 k per YEAR (not month) give you a proper life compare to a guy who has a land and work on his land to provide food without spend a cent on anything while the land give him food forever.

The word IF is always used to make an debate seems real.. pls debate with facts if you are up to it.

firstly australia is expensive as fuck,by the time u get ur land and house and whatever it is u need to plant ur first crop,u would have spent a bomb already....australia already has great farms,tons and tons of farmland,and industrial size,mechanised farms,why the fuck do u want to go there and be some shitty small time farmer when australian farmers can farm 100 times better than you?

also australia has a minimum wage and a government pension,why the fuck do you want to be a farmer in australia??????go be a fruit picker in western australia,pick strawberries and watermelons,wages are $600 per week plus room and board.u can experience the life of a farmer and make big money at the same time.

farmers can be self subsistence or commercial u fucktard,although for fucktards like you they are more likely to be self subsistence.
 

tonychat

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
firstly australia is expensive as fuck,by the time u get ur land and house and whatever it is u need to plant ur first crop,u would have spent a bomb already....australia already has great farms,tons and tons of farmland,and industrial size,mechanised farms,why the fuck do u want to go there and be some shitty small time farmer when australian farmers can farm 100 times better than you?

also australia has a minimum wage and a government pension,why the fuck do you want to be a farmer in australia??????go be a fruit picker in western australia,pick strawberries and watermelons,wages are $600 per week plus room and board.u can experience the life of a farmer and make big money at the same time.

farmers can be self subsistence or commercial u fucktard,although for fucktards like you they are more likely to be self subsistence.

Hello.. Once again.. You are talking about being a farmer... U seems to have a fetish for farmers.. Maybe I should remind you again that I am not talking about being a farmer..

CPF, an limiting an depreciating Commodity to be a source for retirement? How stupid can sinkies get..
 

frenchbriefs

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
it should be treated as a bonus nest egg. anyone who treats it as the main, or worse, sole means for retirement is a loser or ignorant fool by definition. if anyone is able to retire without considering cpf withdrawals has planned and execute well. for the astute, it should come as icing on the cake with cake being the main retirement ingredient, i.e. a cake that comprises a diverse portfolio including cash, real estate, stocks, annuities, dividends, etc. with this thinking sinkies will become financially independent.

i never said cpf was the perfect solution,i only said it was adequate for basic "survival" in a country where u can "survive" on $969 a month.i think we all know why the cpf has failed so badly,besides the low interest rates over the decades,the exploding skyrocketing inflation and cost of living in singapore which resulted from the policy of growth at all cost,which in turn turned our CPF interest rate returns to negative and our purchasing power to garbage......also the biggest problem of CPF is a large chuck of our wealth has been galvanised to pay for our overpriced expensive pigeon holes,funds which should be meant for our retirement and left alone to accumulate and grow,instead has been used to fuel a housing real estate bubble.

cpf needs major structural reform and not just tweaks in order to stop it from destroying sinkie's wealth....until then its better to migrate to australia or canada.
 
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frenchbriefs

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Hello.. Once again.. You are talking about being a farmer... U seems to have a fetish for farmers.. Maybe I should remind you again that I am not talking about being a farmer..

CPF, an limiting an depreciating Commodity to be a source for retirement? How stupid can sinkies get..

but it is farmers u are talking about no?all those people in thailand u are referring to,a large percentage of the population,they are called farmers whether its part time farmer or full time,or recreational or wannabe or hippie.now i dunno what else u want to call them by,coolies or peasants or peons or proletariat like LKY used to call sinkies.
 
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tonychat

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
but it is farmers u are talking about no?all those people in thailand u are referring to,a large percentage of the population,they are called farmers whether its part time farmer or full time,or recreational or wannabe or hippie.now i dunno what else u want to call them by,coolies or peasants or peons or proletariat like LKY used to call sinkies.

It's ok.. Your level of understanding and awareness is not there yet.. You just cannot discuss things at my level.. Having a discussion with fucktards is very energy draining because they cannot understand simple things and English..

I talk about countries that had massive land and in your pit brain, only Thailand has that.

I talk about retirement from owning a land, u talk about being a farmer.. I talk about self sufficient of having growing ur own food , you talk about cpf as passive income..

How in the world can cpf be a passive income. That is why I say go and get some quality education first before you continue to disgrace yourself and your ancestors further.

And you know why I bring in ancestor to this, because you inherited the genes from them.
 
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frenchbriefs

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
It's ok.. Your level of understanding and awareness is not there yet.. You just cannot discuss things at my level.. Having a discussion with fucktards is very energy draining because they cannot understand simple things and English..

I talk about countries that had massive land and in your pit brain, only Thailand has that.

I talk about retirement from owning a land, u talk about being a farmer.. I talk about self sufficient of having growing ur own food , you talk about cpf as passive income..

How in the world can cpf be a passive income. That is why I say go and get some quality education first before you continue to disgrace yourself and your ancestors further.

of course not tonychat i have nothing useful to learn from u,unless i want to learn about unicorns,or flying monkeys or mgtow or soursop.u are just here for entertainment value.of course we will spare some time now and then to humor u and indulge in u.

im sorry if my definition of passive income differ from yours,maybe u would like to read a finance book or any book for once in your life and get a real education not that youtube garbage.

work on your land,u telling me the time and energy u spend working on your land growing food has no economic value at all?how is that different from working a job and earning some money?how is it any different from picking cardboard or selling curry puffs outside the mrt station like a minah?all work and time has a economic value on it.do u think the time,effort and energy spend on your farm comes from thin air?do u know how many hours a day u have to spend maintaining a small farm?growing fruit and vegs?raising chicken and milking cows taking care of goats?how is that considered passive income?passive income is income generated without putting in any manual labour,work or time.....thats why CPF is considered passive income,it generates interest without me puttin in time and effort u fucktard.

if i can make $20 an hour playing poker online or at the casino why the fuck would i want to become a farmer?if i can make $35 an hour being a consultant for a firm why the fuck do i want to become a farmer?i choose to do the things that have the greatest economical value for my time.the $20 an hour i make i can easily go to the supermarket or farmers' market and buy all the milk and eggs and fruit and vegetables i need.not fucking self subsistence.

the women in the sweatshops in bangladesh makes my T shirts from uniqlo for me for 87 cents an hour,thank god for them,i dunno where i would be if i have to be self subsistence and make my clothes or shoes,how many hours it would take for me to make a pair of slippers,luckily i can just buy them for $10 thanks to cheap labour.
 
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winnipegjets

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
it should be treated as a bonus nest egg. anyone who treats it as the main, or worse, sole means for retirement is a loser or ignorant fool by definition. if anyone is able to retire without considering cpf withdrawals has planned and execute well. for the astute, it should come as icing on the cake with cake being the main retirement ingredient, i.e. a cake that comprises a diverse portfolio including cash, real estate, stocks, annuities, dividends, etc. with this thinking sinkies will become financially independent.

Why you never tell the PAP this? PAP intended CPF solely for retirement.

Second question ...how many sinkees can afford to save more outside PAP?

Sinkapore needs social security.
 

frenchbriefs

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
confession of a small time farmer in america

What nobody told me about small farming: I can’t make a living
People say we're "rich in other ways," but that doesn't fix the ugly fact that most farms are unsustainable

A businessman once advised me never to admit my business was struggling. No one wants to climb aboard a sinking ship, know what I mean? he’d said. At the time, I agreed. I believed if a business was failing it was because the entrepreneur was not skilled enough, not savvy enough, not hardworking enough. If my farm didn’t turn enough profit, it was my own fault.

Whenever a customer asked how things were going, I replied, Great. I thought about the sinking ship, and never said, Well, we’re making ends meet, but we work 12 hour days, 6 days a week, and pay ourselves only what we need to cover food and household expenses: $100 per week. I didn’t tell anyone how, over the course of the last three years since Ryan and I had started our farm, I’d drained most of my savings. I didn’t admit that the only thing keeping the farm afloat was income Ryan and I earned through other means — Ryan working as a carpenter and I as a baker. I didn’t say that despite the improvements we made to the land— the hundreds of yards of compost we spread, the thousand dollars we spent annually on cover crop seed to increase soil fertility, every weed pulled — we gained no equity because we didn’t own the land. I didn’t say I felt like I was trying to fill a bathtub when the drain was open.

One afternoon, a fellow farmer came over for a visit. He asked how we were doing, and this time I told the truth. The farmer told me he’d been farming for nearly a decade and last year he made the most profit yet: $4,000. I spewed out a slurry of concerns, told the farmer how I’d done the numbers every way and the future wasn’t looking much more profitable. The farmer just nodded, as if I was telling him what I’d eaten for breakfast that morning and not revealing the shameful secret of my failing business. The more we talked the more I began to wonder about other farmers I knew.

I wondered how many small farmers actually made a living. Before I set out trying to answer this question, I had to define what constitutes “a living.” I decided making a living meant three things: 1) The farmer had to pay herself a weekly wage that equaled what a person working full-time would make on minimum wage, which in my town would be $360 per week. 2) The farmer had to abide by labor laws, meaning no unpaid workers or interns doing essential farm tasks. 3) The farmer had to earn her income from farming, which meant nonprofit farms that survived on grants and donations didn’t count; neither did farms that sustained themselves on outside income sources.

I talked to all the farmers I knew, considered farms I or my partner had worked at in the past, farms I’d visited, friends’ farms. Most farmers I talked to worked outside jobs to keep their farms above water, others skirted by on an income they calculated to be $4 per hours, and most depended on interns, volunteers or WWOOFers for labor. I did not encounter a single farmer who met my requirements.

Then I looked into national statistics. According to USDA data from 2012, intermediate-size farms like mine, which gross more than $10,000 but less than $250,000, obtain only 10 percent of their household income from the farm, and 90 percent from an off-farm source. Smaller farms actually lost money farming and earned 109 percent of their household income from off-farm sources. Only the largest farms, which represent just 10 percent of farming households in the country and most of which received large government subsidies, earned the majority of their income from farm sources. So, 90 percent of farmers in this country rely on an outside job, or a spouse’s outside job, or some independent form of wealth, for their primary income.

One day late into my second season owning the farm, a customer walked in while I stood behind the counter spraying down bins of muddy carrots. The man asked how things were going. Financially, I mean. He held a head of lettuce in the crook of his arm, a bundle of pink radishes dangled from his hand.

I looked at the man and instead of replying with my usual “great,” I said, We’re getting by. He nodded, Well, you may not be making lots of money, but you’re rich in other ways. I opened my mouth to reply, but the man had already turned away and was gazing dreamy-eyed out at my fields, each row buttered in late-afternoon sun. I turned back to the heap of carrots, not sure what I would have said anyway.

I wanted to ask the man which “other ways” did he mean, exactly. But I knew what he meant. I heard this kind of thing all the time: You must love what you do, or not much profit in farming, but what a great lifestyle, or, well, you’re not in it for the money, right? Customers repeated these aphorisms warmly in an attempt to offer me some consolation or encouragement. But watching this man gaze out at my fields, I couldn’t help wondering if it was the customer who was the one being consoled.

Surely many farmers enjoy what they do, as I often find pleasure in my daily tasks, but ultimately farming is work, an occupation, a means of making a living that must fulfill the basic function of a job: to provide an income. Does the notion that farming is lovable work excuse the fact that the entire industry relies on underpaid labor? Does it somehow make it OK that in 2014 it’s forecast to be $–1,682? I had to wonder if this notion works only to assuage a collective discomfort provoked by an unsettling fact, a fact that should enrage us, that should disgrace us as a society: the fact that the much celebrated American small farmer can’t even make a living.

A few weeks later I gave a presentation at a local high school. The teacher had asked me to talk to her food systems class about being an organic farmer. After I finished my talk the teacher turned to her class. So, she asked, how many of you think you might consider a career in agriculture after high school?

Not a single student raised a hand.

The teacher surveyed the air above her students’ heads for a few moments as if scanning the ocean for whales, as if any minute a hand might spring up. None did. Then she looked to me and offered a sympathetic half-smile, half-grimace, as if the tally had come in and I’d just lost an election.

I shrugged. She didn’t have to apologize to me, I hadn’t expected the students to want to become farmers. I guess I didn’t make it look too appealing, I said. And I didn’t — I didn’t romanticize the early mornings out in the field or extol the health benefits of physical labor. I’d told the truth: I grew 10 acres of organic vegetables, worked upward of 60 hours a week during the height of the season, and my total income last year was $2,451. Most of the kids probably earned more that this with a summer job. I told them how most jobs in organic agriculture were either “internships” where workers received food or housing instead of a salary, or were as underpaid and exploitive as jobs on conventional farms where workers were hired seasonally, earned minimum wage or less, and received no benefits.

Driving home from the high school I wondered if perhaps I should’ve placed a more positive light on farming. As the average age of the American farmer neared 65, I knew young farmers were badly needed in this country. Would it have hurt if I’d mentioned the evening the great white egret landed just a yard away from me in the field? How the bird’s body stood taller than mine as I crouched between rows of collard greens, how its neck moved like a snake, slithering upward so it could peer down at me. And when the egret unfolded two white wings and lifted into the sky, a breath of wind pushed against my cheek.

Or I could’ve described the joy of pausing in the field during a summer morning harvest to slice open a watermelon, how the fruit’s pink flesh remains slightly cool inside its thick rind despite the heat of the day, how I hollow out the melon with a spoon from my pocket and eat an entire half.

Of course the lifestyle of a farmer had its perks, but it didn’t seem this was the point. Surely there were plenty of professions that offered moments of joy and satisfaction, surely the doctor, the wildlife biologist, the chef, or mechanic, at times enjoys her work. But no one expected these people to take this satisfaction as pay.

When a student asked if my farm was sustainable, I told her that I was certified organic, I managed my soil fertility through crop rotations and compost applications, I didn’t use synthetic pesticides, I conserved water. But no, I’d said, I didn’t think my farm was sustainable. Like all the other farms I knew, my farm relied on uncompensated labor and self-exploitation. My farm was not sustainable because I knew the years my partner and I could continue to work without a viable income were numbered.
 

eatshitndie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Why you never tell the PAP this? PAP intended CPF solely for retirement.

Second question ...how many sinkees can afford to save more outside PAP?

Sinkapore needs social security.

social security my foot. sinkies shouldn't rely on gov to plan for their retirement. sinkies should plan on their own retirement the moment the first hair grows on their pubic area.
 

frenchbriefs

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
social security my foot. sinkies shouldn't rely on gov to plan for their retirement. sinkies should plan on their own retirement the moment the first hair grows on their pubic area.

why suddenly u extol independence for sinkies?i thought all along u are 100% supportive of PAP policies and government planning for sinkies every step of the way from cradle to grave?PAP is the best no?
 

frenchbriefs

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Why you never tell the PAP this? PAP intended CPF solely for retirement.

Second question ...how many sinkees can afford to save more outside PAP?

Sinkapore needs social security.

sinkapore already has social security,its called CPF.except its not very good cause CPF doesnt tax the rich.in USA social security taxes all persons earning up $116,000 per year a flat rate of 6.2%,the money is then pooled together and distributed to the poor.CPF is a regressive tax and a tax on the poor.Even USA is less fucked up than SIngapore.
 

ginfreely

Alfrescian
Loyal
So Canada also achieved 8% per annum. Australia 4 to 8%. I recall Msia also around 6% or higher except their currency value dropped alot more. So only Singapore CPF is underperforming with 2.5% or we are shortchanged.

isnt CPF a form of passive income?like lifeafter41 said,his friend has nearly 500k in his cpf,cpf gives about 2.5 to 3.5 percent interest a year,thats 12.5k to 17.5k SGD interest per year(1.5k per month).....if his friend only spend the interest generated every year without touch capital,technically CPF can last forever.

u have to manage ur expectations,what kind of standard of living do you think u can get from a small piece of land?i dont think thai farmers are very rich,the average wage in thai cities is about 500 usd a month,a thai farmer probably makes way less,about $100 to $200 USD a month?if u want to just survive and have 3 meals a day,u can easily have 3 meals at economical rice stall for $10 a day.i believe CPF is more than sufficient for basic survival.....of course sinkies have higher expectations than that so its better to save and build other forms of passive income besides cpf.

but i agree CPF is worthless,the government keeps pushing the useless CPF onto us,the interest rates are too low,low interest rates for extended periods of time,20 or 30 years destroys any chance of building real wealth......we should follow other countries like canada or australia where their "CPF" retirement funds are invested aggressively in stock and bond markets with much higher returns.....i believe canada managed to achieve outstanding results for their CPP fund,nearly 8 percent annualized returns.....the fund started in 1999 and is now valued over 246 billion dollars.PAP is cheating our citizen's wealth.
 

ginfreely

Alfrescian
Loyal
And this so called small farm is 10 acres or 436000 square feet. Very large piece of land to work on! Worked 60 hours week and only earned less than USD 2500 per year. Looks like really tough life to be small farmer in USA. I watched a documentary before that it is the same in China countryside where each family's small allotment of land means cannot earn enough from farming and that's why all young people left to work in factories in the city. Only left the elderly and children.


confession of a small time farmer in america

What nobody told me about small farming: I can’t make a living
People say we're "rich in other ways," but that doesn't fix the ugly fact that most farms are unsustainable

A businessman once advised me never to admit my business was struggling. No one wants to climb aboard a sinking ship, know what I mean? he’d said. At the time, I agreed. I believed if a business was failing it was because the entrepreneur was not skilled enough, not savvy enough, not hardworking enough. If my farm didn’t turn enough profit, it was my own fault.

Whenever a customer asked how things were going, I replied, Great. I thought about the sinking ship, and never said, Well, we’re making ends meet, but we work 12 hour days, 6 days a week, and pay ourselves only what we need to cover food and household expenses: $100 per week. I didn’t tell anyone how, over the course of the last three years since Ryan and I had started our farm, I’d drained most of my savings. I didn’t admit that the only thing keeping the farm afloat was income Ryan and I earned through other means — Ryan working as a carpenter and I as a baker. I didn’t say that despite the improvements we made to the land— the hundreds of yards of compost we spread, the thousand dollars we spent annually on cover crop seed to increase soil fertility, every weed pulled — we gained no equity because we didn’t own the land. I didn’t say I felt like I was trying to fill a bathtub when the drain was open.

One afternoon, a fellow farmer came over for a visit. He asked how we were doing, and this time I told the truth. The farmer told me he’d been farming for nearly a decade and last year he made the most profit yet: $4,000. I spewed out a slurry of concerns, told the farmer how I’d done the numbers every way and the future wasn’t looking much more profitable. The farmer just nodded, as if I was telling him what I’d eaten for breakfast that morning and not revealing the shameful secret of my failing business. The more we talked the more I began to wonder about other farmers I knew.

I wondered how many small farmers actually made a living. Before I set out trying to answer this question, I had to define what constitutes “a living.” I decided making a living meant three things: 1) The farmer had to pay herself a weekly wage that equaled what a person working full-time would make on minimum wage, which in my town would be $360 per week. 2) The farmer had to abide by labor laws, meaning no unpaid workers or interns doing essential farm tasks. 3) The farmer had to earn her income from farming, which meant nonprofit farms that survived on grants and donations didn’t count; neither did farms that sustained themselves on outside income sources.

I talked to all the farmers I knew, considered farms I or my partner had worked at in the past, farms I’d visited, friends’ farms. Most farmers I talked to worked outside jobs to keep their farms above water, others skirted by on an income they calculated to be $4 per hours, and most depended on interns, volunteers or WWOOFers for labor. I did not encounter a single farmer who met my requirements.

Then I looked into national statistics. According to USDA data from 2012, intermediate-size farms like mine, which gross more than $10,000 but less than $250,000, obtain only 10 percent of their household income from the farm, and 90 percent from an off-farm source. Smaller farms actually lost money farming and earned 109 percent of their household income from off-farm sources. Only the largest farms, which represent just 10 percent of farming households in the country and most of which received large government subsidies, earned the majority of their income from farm sources. So, 90 percent of farmers in this country rely on an outside job, or a spouse’s outside job, or some independent form of wealth, for their primary income.

One day late into my second season owning the farm, a customer walked in while I stood behind the counter spraying down bins of muddy carrots. The man asked how things were going. Financially, I mean. He held a head of lettuce in the crook of his arm, a bundle of pink radishes dangled from his hand.

I looked at the man and instead of replying with my usual “great,” I said, We’re getting by. He nodded, Well, you may not be making lots of money, but you’re rich in other ways. I opened my mouth to reply, but the man had already turned away and was gazing dreamy-eyed out at my fields, each row buttered in late-afternoon sun. I turned back to the heap of carrots, not sure what I would have said anyway.

I wanted to ask the man which “other ways” did he mean, exactly. But I knew what he meant. I heard this kind of thing all the time: You must love what you do, or not much profit in farming, but what a great lifestyle, or, well, you’re not in it for the money, right? Customers repeated these aphorisms warmly in an attempt to offer me some consolation or encouragement. But watching this man gaze out at my fields, I couldn’t help wondering if it was the customer who was the one being consoled.

Surely many farmers enjoy what they do, as I often find pleasure in my daily tasks, but ultimately farming is work, an occupation, a means of making a living that must fulfill the basic function of a job: to provide an income. Does the notion that farming is lovable work excuse the fact that the entire industry relies on underpaid labor? Does it somehow make it OK that in 2014 it’s forecast to be $–1,682? I had to wonder if this notion works only to assuage a collective discomfort provoked by an unsettling fact, a fact that should enrage us, that should disgrace us as a society: the fact that the much celebrated American small farmer can’t even make a living.

A few weeks later I gave a presentation at a local high school. The teacher had asked me to talk to her food systems class about being an organic farmer. After I finished my talk the teacher turned to her class. So, she asked, how many of you think you might consider a career in agriculture after high school?

Not a single student raised a hand.

The teacher surveyed the air above her students’ heads for a few moments as if scanning the ocean for whales, as if any minute a hand might spring up. None did. Then she looked to me and offered a sympathetic half-smile, half-grimace, as if the tally had come in and I’d just lost an election.

I shrugged. She didn’t have to apologize to me, I hadn’t expected the students to want to become farmers. I guess I didn’t make it look too appealing, I said. And I didn’t — I didn’t romanticize the early mornings out in the field or extol the health benefits of physical labor. I’d told the truth: I grew 10 acres of organic vegetables, worked upward of 60 hours a week during the height of the season, and my total income last year was $2,451. Most of the kids probably earned more that this with a summer job. I told them how most jobs in organic agriculture were either “internships” where workers received food or housing instead of a salary, or were as underpaid and exploitive as jobs on conventional farms where workers were hired seasonally, earned minimum wage or less, and received no benefits.

Driving home from the high school I wondered if perhaps I should’ve placed a more positive light on farming. As the average age of the American farmer neared 65, I knew young farmers were badly needed in this country. Would it have hurt if I’d mentioned the evening the great white egret landed just a yard away from me in the field? How the bird’s body stood taller than mine as I crouched between rows of collard greens, how its neck moved like a snake, slithering upward so it could peer down at me. And when the egret unfolded two white wings and lifted into the sky, a breath of wind pushed against my cheek.

Or I could’ve described the joy of pausing in the field during a summer morning harvest to slice open a watermelon, how the fruit’s pink flesh remains slightly cool inside its thick rind despite the heat of the day, how I hollow out the melon with a spoon from my pocket and eat an entire half.

Of course the lifestyle of a farmer had its perks, but it didn’t seem this was the point. Surely there were plenty of professions that offered moments of joy and satisfaction, surely the doctor, the wildlife biologist, the chef, or mechanic, at times enjoys her work. But no one expected these people to take this satisfaction as pay.

When a student asked if my farm was sustainable, I told her that I was certified organic, I managed my soil fertility through crop rotations and compost applications, I didn’t use synthetic pesticides, I conserved water. But no, I’d said, I didn’t think my farm was sustainable. Like all the other farms I knew, my farm relied on uncompensated labor and self-exploitation. My farm was not sustainable because I knew the years my partner and I could continue to work without a viable income were numbered.
 

ginfreely

Alfrescian
Loyal
And this so called small farm is 10 acres or 436000 square feet. Very large piece of land to work on! Worked 60 hours week and only earned less than USD 2500 per year. Looks like really tough life to be small farmer in USA. I watched a documentary before that it is the same in China countryside where each family's small allotment of land means cannot earn enough from farming and that's why all young people left to work in factories in the city. Only left the elderly and children.

So tonychat's idyllic version of land for retirement is not feasible unless have other income sources or re-zone the farming land to build houses which is so common to see in Msia, plantation land becoming housing developments. Such local land owners will then be able to retire and live it up!
 
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