Confirm SAF is ROTTON, corroded valves downed Apach & broke tail

[Cruxx]

Spore brand is not what it used to be. I wonder if in the past, the cover ups were more successful

Nowadays got man made floods, poorly maintained aircraft, ... how about the mrt breakdowns Sure got attempts at covering up, it seems SOP with GLCs

Blame it all on the Act of god lah

All honest mistakes. Move on.

 

[Cruxx]

VALVE is correct. That is a mechanical device control air/gas/liquid flow.

Maybe my humour too subtle. Paiseh

 

[blackmore]

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Unless the Apaches are LST based, I don't see how much more humidity and salt would their engines see compared to an F16, UH-1 or 747 for that matter.

If the Apache is parked for long, yes perhaps corrosion may set in. But once the engine heats up and the bird lifts off?

All metal oxidize , even stainless steel for example turn dull after a while. Common misconception people have about metallugry.

In the air there is impurities, when it rain the moisture also contain levels of salt. I wonder if it is because this bird was in Asian Aerospace 2010 that ingested too much moisture from the sea compare to the rest.

 

[scroobal]

They can't catch it bro. Its a good one nevertheless.

Maybe my humour too subtle. Paiseh

 

[eatshitndie]

VALVE is correct. That is a mechanical device control air/gas/liquid flow.

rotten vulva is more like it. a lot of that in sg.

 

[rofthelper]

the only reason those people sign on the apache team was to go to USA for training aka holiday for years. They can enjoy USA nature and also go to Las Vegas to gamble.
They was not there to learn about maintenance. They were there to learn about gambling.

Now it is very clear for us to see.

Quite true, singveld.

Some of my regular friends who were posted to Peace Vanguard (Apache helicopter detachment) & Peace Prairie (CH-47 Chinook helicopter detachment) didn't really get to save their allowances, and some even dip deeper into their monthly salary and even borrow $$$ from those single regulars.

Their cars must be 2L and above, preferable japanese or european models. Those who brought their spouse along, spend $$$ as if they are WAGs, buying luxuries goods and stuff for the kids, men visiting strip bars spending USD 200-300, gambling in LV during weekends.

You will be shocked to see some of these guys' living apartments, some even bigger and classier than their detachment CO, DY CO or S3.

 

[red amoeba]

sorry bro, i am not engineering nor expert in engines...but at least i got air-level pass. when i read corroded valves - and yet Minister Teo say its not maintenance lapse i cannot add them up.

If maintenance check is not to check for rusty parts or ensuring parts are working as it should - then why is it call maintenance checks? If the crash is due not to human error - which in this case, blamed on parts failure, is it not detectable via maintenance checks?

For expensive birds like these, there are A, B, C checks depending on extent of checks, the extensive one includes overhaul of the engines...did the Apache went through this before or its not due for A check?

there could be 2 reasons - 1) they did not know they must check that part. 2) they did not know how to check.

Which ever way I read, its contradicting...we spent so much money to send pilots and tech crew to US to train before sending the birds home and they could not detect such thing???

If we are not SAF, I would have understand, but since we pride ourselves as 3G army and blah blah...its really unacceptable.

Like that might as well keep flying the Huey...at least if it crash, we can conveniently say its aged.

Sorry but DPM Teo...I cannot really accept your explanation and to think, you will be our PM next time...err...

 

[ah_phah]

the apache was built as a verstaile lethal fighting machine to remove enemy troops in fast & effective manouvers. question is, how is it that they're using inferior material for critical components? no need engineer or scientist to explain that ferrous metals when exposed to the elements tend to oxidize/corrode real fast. the apache fleet was only acquired and was delivered to our shores not long ago. such problems simply not acceptable.

if the oldman's 3 year old lexus should experience such failures, everyone down the line from sales to technicians will have their heads on the chopping board. just bcos the fleet was purchased using tax payers $, and now that such embarassing mishap takes place, they can take it so lightly to claim that it's nobody's fault... just merely "wear & tear"??

how is it even justified that we have super high salaried morons to give us such bull crap? time to rename the aircraft as "ay-picha"

i bet the mutts in proton must be laughing their heads off at this incident, thinking to themselves m'sia boleh.

 

[red amoeba]

unless the maintenance was outsourced to ST Aerospace liao...and they fucked up the maintenance.

 

[halsey02]

I really wonder if the fault is not with the manufacturers or the local maintenance crew; does it means that nobody is liable and move on with life and write off the equipment?

Does it mean the local maintenance crew being paid handsomely can;t detect problems if it is not stated in procedures/manuals.

This sounds very familiar, the Idiot Blue Machine 'ah nehs' was using manual version 1.0 for backup, when version 7.0 was available.

Maybe the maintanence crew was using version 0.3 beta, while the recent version 9.0 was available, and QM to save cost, did not order...

 

[halsey02]

sorry bro, i am not engineering nor expert in engines...but at least i got air-level pass. when i read corroded valves - and yet Minister Teo say its not maintenance lapse i cannot add them up.

If maintenance check is not to check for rusty parts or ensuring parts are working as it should - then why is it call maintenance checks? If the crash is due not to human error - which in this case, blamed on parts failure, is it not detectable via maintenance checks?

For expensive birds like these, there are A, B, C checks depending on extent of checks, the extensive one includes overhaul of the engines...did the Apache went through this before or its not due for A check?

there could be 2 reasons - 1) they did not know they must check that part. 2) they did not know how to check.

Which ever way I read, its contradicting...we spent so much money to send pilots and tech crew to US to train before sending the birds home and they could not detect such thing???

If we are not SAF, I would have understand, but since we pride ourselves as 3G army and blah blah...its really unacceptable.

Like that might as well keep flying the Huey...at least if it crash, we can conveniently say its aged.

Sorry but DPM Teo...I cannot really accept your explanation and to think, you will be our PM next time...err...

They could not afford WD40 ha ha ha

 

[klongtoey kid]

Why don't have that piece of expensive junk fall straight from sky into the NDP crowd. In Iraq the farmers shot them down with hunting guns.:p

Be surely prepared for these SAF junks to fall from sky into our blocks of HDB flats.:oIo:

everyone knows tis is another typical desperate cover-up attempt by MIW. If this machine e-landed in some restricted saf grounds, will they bother to lie and BS (again & again)?
these birds took so much beating from the taliban in afgan while covering the delta forces and rangers dat the yankee techs were shocked to see almost all possible components were whacked by 7.62mm rounds, n still the birds managed to limp back to base for repair, re-fuel, re-arm and ready to go in few hours..
Corroded valves?? guess it only happen in peacetime sillypore...

 

[Leongsam]

Maybe my humour too subtle. Paiseh

99.9% of sinkies take everything they read literally. Satire, sarcasm and word-play simply doesn't register or is assumed to be a syntax error and therefore doesn't translate.

That's what happens when the command of a language is lost.

 

[rofthelper]

They could not afford WD40 ha ha ha

Airforce using LPS-1 or 2.

 

[Papsmearer]

sorry bro, i am not engineering nor expert in engines...but at least i got air-level pass. when i read corroded valves - and yet Minister Teo say its not maintenance lapse i cannot add them up.

If maintenance check is not to check for rusty parts or ensuring parts are working as it should - then why is it call maintenance checks? If the crash is due not to human error - which in this case, blamed on parts failure, is it not detectable via maintenance checks?

For expensive birds like these, there are A, B, C checks depending on extent of checks, the extensive one includes overhaul of the engines...did the Apache went through this before or its not due for A check?

there could be 2 reasons - 1) they did not know they must check that part. 2) they did not know how to check.

Which ever way I read, its contradicting...we spent so much money to send pilots and tech crew to US to train before sending the birds home and they could not detect such thing???

If we are not SAF, I would have understand, but since we pride ourselves as 3G army and blah blah...its really unacceptable.

Like that might as well keep flying the Huey...at least if it crash, we can conveniently say its aged.

Sorry but DPM Teo...I cannot really accept your explanation and to think, you will be our PM next time...err...

I agree with u 100%. Teo's explanation is lame as hell. I hope that people will read your post and find out that its a con job by him. I want to address them too. I too am not an engineer by training. However, to me these thinsg do not add up.

1) Valve was corroded - How can it be corroded until like this? How can the valves on 2 engines corrode and sieze up at the same time? The oldest Apaches in the RSAF have been in service since 2002. But they were all based in Arizona, at Silverbell, dry climate, no sea air or anything really corrosive there. They were brought back to Singapore starting 2007. Hence, the aircraft was at best in this humid and tropical environment for only 3 year.

2) The RSAF is a relatively new user of the APache. There has been many other operators with many more years of experience. The same GE T700 engine is used in many other US military helos, including USN ship based Balckhawk derivatives. These shipborne helos using the same engines would I imagine have much more corrosion problems than the RSAF helos, but Teo said that this was the first time it happened.

3) He mentioned that it was the anti-icing start bleed valve. This is the most ridiculous thing i have heard. The whole anti-icing system taps engine hot air to warm up the rest of the engine to prevent ice from forming. I can understand if the pilots do not ever turn the anit-ice switch on in their cockpit because in this weather, u will not need to use it. ALso, in Arizona, the opportunity to use the anti-ice system is also minimal due to the climate there. The valve itself is connected by two pieces of thin piping that routes around the engine in order to warm it. I suppose if they do not use it at all, nor do they inspect it during A,B,C checks the valve maybe be corroded.The ground crew may also decide that since this is a device that is not used at all, it does not need to be be inspected.

4) If you believe that what Teo says is true, how is the anti-ice bleed valve related to the engine failue? Does it control any of the fuel system such that it can shut down the engines? No, I don't think so. If it did, what are the odds that it will happen to 2 engines at the same time? The helo was designed to fly back to base on one engine. I had orignally thought it was an engine gearbox/tranmission problem. But not according to Teo. Whether the anti-ice bleed valve works or not ,it should not have any impact on the function of the helo in S'pore. If the anti-ice valve does not work in the middle of a flight in the middle of winter in ALaska, than that is a different thing.

5) Maybe Teo is just to embarassed to admit the helo ran out of fuel or something stupid like that. Maybe some engine tech here can give a better explanation.

 

[Papsmearer]

Quite true, singveld.

Some of my regular friends who were posted to Peace Vanguard (Apache helicopter detachment) & Peace Prairie (CH-47 Chinook helicopter detachment) didn't really get to save their allowances, and some even dip deeper into their monthly salary and even borrow $$$ from those single regulars.

Their cars must be 2L and above, preferable japanese or european models. Those who brought their spouse along, spend $$$ as if they are WAGs, buying luxuries goods and stuff for the kids, men visiting strip bars spending USD 200-300, gambling in LV during weekends.

You will be shocked to see some of these guys' living apartments, some even bigger and classier than their detachment CO, DY CO or S3.

Don't begrudge them this. They have a once in a lifetime chance to own and drive a european or japanese car, buy cheap name brands at the the Factory Outlets, and fuck big tit angmo pussy. Let them have their fun. After that, they have to come back to singapore and their miserable existence living in a HDB flat, cannot afford a car, take the MRT crammed like crazy, and fuck small tit Thai hookers. Once in their lifetime, they at least get to enjoy for a couple of years. Every dog must have its day.

 

[johnny333]

I agree with u 100%. Teo's explanation is lame as hell. ....

Dejavue, another excuse for failures in the PAP.

Who can forget "clogged longkangs" , "an act of god"

We can speculate about the causes but will remain a mystery until more opposition eyes get into parliament

 

[flkyflky]

Basically the USA sold SAF the rotten Karanguni planes, which they had been made using old parts, changed their expiry dates and assembled into fucked up products to sell to PAP and collect SGP tax payers monies lucrative like fuck!

I think they are all corroded when they were fucking first sold to PAP.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear PAP

A quick google on the nomeclature has turned up the following. Official Description of the Anti Icing system and a picture of the valve in question from the manufacturer.

http://www.tpub.com/content/ahapache/TM-1-1520-238-T-4/css/TM-1-1520-238-T-4_108.htm

http://www.vacco.com/vacco/defense/aircraft/aircraftproducts.html

1. Its possible that the corrosion was internal thus escaping a visual look.

2. PAP is wrong in that the Anti Ice thingy would not be used in Arizona, the Desert can and does get pretty cold whether in the morning or at night in certain times of the year.


3. The corrosion is inexplicable and for something to happen at the same time to both engines its like a one in a million occurrence.

4. Engines are still undergoing tear down and testing. The full story will emerge more fully in the weeks to come and I suspect it will become more complicated much like the Boeing 777 fuel feed, heat exchanger issue.




Locke

 

[moolightaffairs]

They could not afford WD40 ha ha ha

thats a good one! hahaha!!! must by some staff suggestion scheme or wits project!!!