Comparing Adelaide with Melbourne/Sydney

[littlefish]

Hi all,
has anyone lived and worked in Adelaide before? What are your views about the city as compared to living and working in either Melbourne/Sydney? I know Melbourne pretty well and I believe Sydney is quite similar to Melbourne due to the demographics and population sizes. I know people who have lived/worked or are currently living/working in Brisbane/Melbourne/Sydney but I do not know of anyone in Adelaide.

 

[neddy]

Hi all,
has anyone lived and worked in Adelaide before? What are your views about the city as compared to living and working in either Melbourne/Sydney? I know Melbourne pretty well and I believe Sydney is quite similar to Melbourne due to the demographics and population sizes. I know people who have lived/worked or are currently living/working in Brisbane/Melbourne/Sydney but I do not know of anyone in Adelaide.

I was there a few years back for business, rentied a place for a few weeks.
Adelaide is quieter than Perth. It has less of the English feel to it, it is more Continental Europe.
Basically, people I know are still trying to leave the place because the place has less jobs and earn less money.

I find the people less friendly, but the food and produce better than Perth.
Retailers that are found in Brisbane/Melbourne/Sydney are more likely to be found in Adelaide compared to Perth.

But things are changing. Adelaide is trying to shake off its not-here, not-there image as a left-behind inland state city serving the Ghan, compared to the rich eastern coastal cities and the nature and resource rich western coastal city.

 

[littlefish]

I was there a few years back for business, rentied a place for a few weeks.
Adelaide is quieter than Perth. It has less of the English feel to it, it is more Continental Europe.
Basically, people I know are still trying to leave the place because the place has less jobs and earn less money.

I find the people less friendly, but the food and produce better than Perth.
Retailers that are found in Brisbane/Melbourne/Sydney are more likely to be found in Adelaide compared to Perth.

But things are changing. Adelaide is trying to shake off its not-here, not-there image as a left-behind inland state city serving the Ghan, compared to the rich eastern coastal cities and the nature and resource rich western coastal city.

Thanks for the info. I understand it is trying to attract people to settle there. How successful do you think they are? Are they succeeding or just treading water? What I am asking is that in terms of percentages relative to its population, is it growing proportionately as compared to other cities? My opinion is that people would much rather head to Brisbane if given a choice between Brisbane and Adelaide.

 

[neddy]

Thanks for the info. I understand it is trying to attract people to settle there. How successful do you think they are? Are they succeeding or just treading water? What I am asking is that in terms of percentages relative to its population, is it growing proportionately as compared to other cities? My opinion is that people would much rather head to Brisbane if given a choice between Brisbane and Adelaide.

Best if I just point you to where you can get the facts.
http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/[email protected]!OpenDocument

You can also google to see the stats of QLD people leaving the state.

 

[littlefish]

Best if I just point you to where you can get the facts.
http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/[email protected]!OpenDocument

You can also google to see the stats of QLD people leaving the state.

Thanks, it sure looks like people there are desperate to move away.

 

[axe168]

Thanks, it sure looks like people there are desperate to move away.

The population in Adelaide is about 1 mil, jobs are mainly Govt related or Santos. Limited jobs and limited Chinese, hence, everybody knows somebody. Big percentage population are on the dole, therefore, it is worthwhile to invest in home content or security sys to prevent break in. Nice kampong spirits depending on suburbs - ppl greet each other everymorning. My previous supervisor made it there.. Draw out his CPF and bought a hse with pool. Easy life and slow pace. Enjoy...

 

[littlefish]

The population in Adelaide is about 1 mil, jobs are mainly Govt related or Santos. Limited jobs and limited Chinese, hence, everybody knows somebody. Big percentage population are on the dole, therefore, it is worthwhile to invest in home content or security sys to prevent break in. Nice kampong spirits depending on suburbs - ppl greet each other everymorning. My previous supervisor made it there.. Draw out his CPF and bought a hse with pool. Easy life and slow pace. Enjoy...

Thanks. From the face of it, it doesn't look like a place I would like to sink roots into. Unless I am posted there for work, I am sure there are much better choices elsewhere for me.

 

[neddy]

Thanks. From the face of it, it doesn't look like a place I would like to sink roots into. Unless I am posted there for work, I am sure there are much better choices elsewhere for me.

It is very interesting. When I arrived in Perth, people were telling me, this place you can only find 3 types of jobs: government jobs, university jobs and retirement.

The mining equipment were laying idle and rusting. There was a sense of pessimism. WA people needed to move to SA because of drought.

No one knew that in this doldrum where people were leaving the state - that a boom, thanks to globalisation, was just beginning.

Instead of running to sexy Melbourne or Olympic city Sydney, I stayed put.

Someone told me about the bubble tea craze in Singapore. I used that as an example. If the pioneers had not made money, will so many people rushed into bubble tea business until this business became over-saturated?

Perth water supply is fixed and this state is modernising.

Perth continues to boom and will do so for the next few generations at least, so I am staying on to create wealth here for retirement as long as there is money to be made. At the same time, I do not have to work so hard. Other plans can wait.


Australia has a 'three-speed economy', says CommSec report
Save this story to read later
by: By Colin Brinsden, AAP Economics Correspondent
From: AAP
October 24, 2011 1:36AM

• Report says Australia has three-speed economy
• WA on its own in group as strongest state
• Little separating poor performers in third group

WHILE much has been said about Australia's two-speed economy, a new analysis of the states and territories suggests there are actually three.

Commonwealth Securities quarterly "State of the States" report believes the nation's eight jurisdictions have effectively divided into three groups.

CommSec's chief economist Craig James says Western Australia is clearly the nation's strongest economy and sits in a group by itself.

"The next level comprises the ACT, Victoria and South Australia," he said, releasing the report on Monday.

"And then there is another gap to the next four states and territories - Tasmania, NSW, Northern Territory and Queensland."


Each quarter CommSec analyses the states through eight key indicators - economic growth, retail spending, equipment investment, unemployment, construction work done, population growth, housing finance and dwelling commencements.

"The main change in the state rankings over the past three months has been the significant out-performance of the WA economy," Mr James said.

Still, its main weakness is WA's residential sector with below-average dwelling starts and falling home prices.

Looking ahead, Mr James expects Queensland should continue to benefit from building activity after the floods and cyclone in early 2011, and has posted strong results in retail spending, construction and equipment investment over the past quarter.

In the October review, the ACT continued to lead the way on four of the eight indicators, and is clearly the second-strongest economy, but Victoria and South Australia aren't far away.

The ACT scores well on population growth, commercial and engineering construction, housing finance and dwelling starts, but underperforms on retail spending, while having the weakest unemployment and equipment investment performance.

Victoria is strongest in the housing sector, while the South Australian economy performs solidly on overall economic growth, and building and construction work.

There is little to separate the four in the third group, Mr James said.

Tasmania out-performs with a relatively low unemployment reading, but somewhat surprisingly underperforms on retail spending.

NSW benefits from above-average population growth, firmer growth in housing finance and above-normal equipment investment, but dwelling starts are both below normal and below year-ago levels.

The Northern Territory continues to outperform with low unemployment and solid growth of retail spending, but population growth, construction work and housing finance are below long-term averages and underperforming other states and territories.

While the Queensland economy should continue to lift over the coming year, it is dragged down by a housing sector that is not helped by weakness in population growth and unemployment.


Commonwealth Securities `State of States' report - October 2011

Strength Weakness
WA Economic growth Housing

ACT Home building Unemployment
Vic Dwelling starts Equipment investment
SA Construction Equipment investment

Tas Unemployment Economic growth
NSW Population Economic growth
NT Unemployment(low) Housing finance
Qld Investment Dwelling starts


Read more: http://www.news.com.au/business/aus...rt/story-e6frfm1i-1226174672384#ixzz1bcxHbs1S

 

[scroobal]

You are better off in Sydney and Melbourne, maybe even Brisbane.

Adelaide is a very unusual city and is known as the secretive city.

t has a high ratio of professionals and rich folks. It was evolved as the University town for the cattle barons and rich farmers of the interior. It is the centre of defence industry including defence intelligence. It big exports are wines, tuna and Uranium. This is the place where they build warships, submarines, satellites etc. Because it is caters for the rich and the professionals, it has high grade private schools. It has alot of rich Hong Kongers , Japanese and Koreans. And amazingly Americans associated with Defence. You realise the presence of Americans when you occasionally spot Cape Cod Homes. You will be lucky to find an ordinary Singaporean in the city.

It has 2 eco systems, the Adelaide City and Adelaide Hills. The hills are where you keep your stables, your hobby farms and your little vineyards. Lots of English in the hills and your will actually think you are in England because of the landscape and weather and its only 20 mins from the city.

Very cultured, very conservative, high end and certainly exclusive. Rich Singaporeans, Malaysians, HK, Japanese and Korean send their little scions to private schools in Adelaide and away from prying eyes. There is little distraction unlike Sydney and Melbourne.

I know a Singaporean entrepreneur whose wayward daughter who was failing in Singapore school went to Adelaide and scored very well in the International Bacculerate. The private schools are a throwback to old English boarding schools and is closer to a finishing school.

I was told that at the start of school term in late January, you can see the whos whos of Singapore and Malaysia at the city centre buying things for schools going kids. I also remember that they had a Mayor once who was born in HK. The whole thing is based on a referral system. You need to know people.

Thanks. From the face of it, it doesn't look like a place I would like to sink roots into. Unless I am posted there for work, I am sure there are much better choices elsewhere for me.

 

[neddy]

You are better off in Sydney and Melbourne, maybe even Brisbane.

Adelaide is a very unusual city and is known as the secretive city.

t has a high ratio of professionals and rich folks. It was evolved as the University town for the cattle barons and rich farmers of the interior. It is the centre of defence industry including defence intelligence. It big exports are wines, tuna and Uranium. This is the place where they build warships, submarines, satellites etc. Because it is caters for the rich and the professionals, it has high grade private schools. It has alot of rich Hong Kongers , Japanese and Koreans. And amazingly Americans associated with Defence. You realise the presence of Americans when you occasionally spot Cape Cod Homes. You will be lucky to find an ordinary Singaporean in the city.

It has 2 eco systems, the Adelaide City and Adelaide Hills. The hills are where you keep your stables, your hobby farms and your little vineyards. Lots of English in the hills and your will actually think you are in England because of the landscape and weather and its only 20 mins from the city.

I will not dismiss Adelaide even though the ex-Premier did a stupid thing of giving away Olympic Dams to BHP.

This state is on the verge of becoming a "has-been" if it cannot lift its game and improve the average salary there. So, I expect the new Labor Premier to do something about it.
A lot of jobs have been adsorbed into the defense industry, which is why the dumb indigenous Collins class submarine project is still there.

Education in Adelaide is probably overrated as well, but again, people are irrational and buy into the reputation thing. True that the kids will not get into troubles as frequent as the major 2 cities, and private education in Australia is really all about connections, unless you have registered your child's name the moment s/he is born.

Adelaide Hill has been made to look English and Continental Europe to remind the settlers of home. So, it is quite interesting to find pockets of industry in this pristine countryside, such as Mt Barker.
*** Late addition *** A number of German settlers in Adelaide changed their name to English style during WWII, but just looking at their diets and you know that they are not English. The wines are a reminder of European roots as well, some where planted more than a century ago for their own use.

If you look at Sydney and Melbourne, I see more problems with these 2 cities if the AUD continue to be strong. Retrenchment and property defaults will start once the US Fed Reserve stop stablising prices and we will see a new wave of high inflation hitting the world.

I seriously wonder whether a Singapore migrant can compete in that kind of environment. When the cities look like home but not the way they do things. It can lead to frustration esp when there are less opportunities.

As for post-flood Brissy, there is still a loss of confidence there.

Perth is also one of those remote cities with a high ratio of professionals and rich folks, and a centre for navy defense. The problem with Perth is a high number of migrants, compared to non-mining jobs. Even GPs are overloaded, not registering new patients. I will not do what I have done when I first arrived here. Things have became a lot more competitive.

I could be wrong about SA just as the land barons had made the wrong choice on buying up York. Perth eventually became the capital city.

I am just stating my opinion and watching this state's development. As to whether any Singaporeans want to live here, it is up to them.

The PRC Chinese pioneer thrived harvesting "animal medicine" for Beijing TongRenTang.

(Late addition
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The best opening joke to break any ice is to ask any mining exploration whether they want to do business in VIC.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Camping allowance cleared for people going up Port Hedland WA.
With the doubling of population, it is quite impossible to find lodging unless booked well in advanced. ($300 per pax per nite)
So, do camping.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A WA pest controller friend won a 2-yr contract to do pest control in remote SA.
This is $$ windfall.

 

[IWC2006]

Hi all,
has anyone lived and worked in Adelaide before? What are your views about the city as compared to living and working in either Melbourne/Sydney? I know Melbourne pretty well and I believe Sydney is quite similar to Melbourne due to the demographics and population sizes. I know people who have lived/worked or are currently living/working in Brisbane/Melbourne/Sydney but I do not know of anyone in Adelaide.

Adelaide is a country town. It is strived to become an international education hub in Australia (a few reputable US & European institutions have setup base here but all doing badly) which doesn't make sense to me consdering the pin size population and economy of South Australia. Go there for retirement is ok but not if you are still young and try to live and make a living.

Even a big city like Sydney is considered by many has had a 'small job market/economy' comparing to London, NY or even HK. The frustration of living in a small city country town is everything is expensive as there's lack of competition in goods & services, and it's population size and huge geographical locations make it even harder for businesses to survive without charging a premium. This is especially challenging for people from developed nations expecting everything to be spot on. Imagine going to the only laundry shop in your suburb to get your clothes dry cleaned only to be told lead time is 2 weeks and price is XXX and the shop closed at 4pm. Yucks! This is Australia, what do you expect? Even in big city like Sydney you need to wait for 20 days on average to get your ADSL broadband to be setup ( don't ever trust the mobile wireless here) and your vodafone network is down for a few days and you have no access to mobile line. However, in the big city at least you get a few laundry shops close by and you can compare the price and service levels - and there's more than 1 Asian shop on the same street where you can find variety like korean, vietnamese, malaysian etc. Or you could still have access to medicine or milk when your neighhour hood supermarket aka coles/woolies are closing at 12 midnight. Try that in Adelaide and you'll cry. U get the point?

 

[neddy]

(Just keeping up to date with Adelaide and etc)

It is like public English schools. need connection (parent is alumni,siblings studying there) or register at birth.

Hi Scroobal,

In case you are interested ...

http://www.allenandunwin.com/default.aspx?page=94&book=9781741756562

SOME of Adelaide's elite private schools are being outperformed by their poorer public counterparts.

The revamped My School 2.0, launched yesterday, for the first time includes schools' financial resources.

A comparison of private schools with statistically similar public schools has found that paying high independent school fees does not always equate to better national literacy and numeracy results than government schools.

The Advertiser can reveal some public schools - that have half the annual income per student of independent schools - are achieving NAPLAN results which are on par with, or in some cases better than, private establishments.

Rose Park Primary School surpassed one of the state's top earning private schools, St Peter's, in all areas of Year 3 testing as well as in Year 7 reading and spelling.


Don't punish private schools
Who outperformed who in NAPLAN Courier Mail, 16 Sep 2011
Team effort puts kids on the top Courier Mail, 13 Sep 2011
Let's celebrate our state education Courier Mail, 19 Jun 2011
Public school enrolments booming The Daily Telegraph, 2 Apr 2011
Elite school students don't excel Perth Now, 4 Mar 2011

This is despite a more than $10,000 difference in funding per student - made up of state and federal funding, fees, charges and other private sources.

St Peter's generates $20,314 per student in funding compared with Rose Park Primary's $9125.

They also charge parents on average $14,319 per student in fees and charges, compared to $684 at Rose Park.

Burnside Primary School outscored the elite Pembroke School in all Year 7 areas: Reading (608 to 584), writing (602 to 583), spelling (582 to 564), grammar and punctuation (591 to 569) and numeracy (617 to 588).

Pembroke receives an annual income of $17,700 per student compared with Burnside Primary's $8306.

The independent school also charges parents $13,436 more on average for their children's education than the public school.

In many cases though, high-fee private schools achieved above average scores, reflecting their resources and income.

Scotch College in Torrens Park scored substantially above, or above average in all Year 3 learning areas, with an annual income per student of $18,823.

While nearby Colonel Light Gardens Primary School, which has an income of $8330 per student, failed to reach Year 3 national averages in reading, grammar, punctuation and numeracy.

Association of Independent Schools of SA executive direc- tor Garry Le Duff said value for money in education should not be directly tied to NAPLAN results.

"Value is in the eye of the beholder. There is a whole range of reasons parents use to determine why they pick a particular school," he said.

"The fact they get good quality grounds, a whole other range of educational programs, sporting facilities and extra curricular activities to counselling support for students and better technology, parents will be attracted to these things.

"It would be misleading to say it's not value for money (as) NAPLAN is only one aspect of educational assessment - what about Year 12 results and International Baccalaureate results?"

Mr Le Duff also raised concern about the validity of "statistically similar schools" which compares "like" schools based on parents' backgrounds - not the students.

This is determined by the Australian Curriculum, Assessment and Reporting Authority.

He said as well as being co-educational or single sex - schools can have extremely complex cohorts including learning and behavioural issues or ESL - English as a Second Language - pupils.

South Australian Primary Principals Association pres- ident Steve Portlock said the results showed "students and parents are getting outstand- ing results from the public school system".

Public schools receive majority of their funding from state taxpayers, as well as the federal government, while private schools are mainly funding by student fees, donations and government contributions.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
IWC2006:
Adelaide still lag the population mass.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
sidetrack ...

 

[scroobal]

I would not even consider retiring there. Its a closed knit society. You got to be well heeled and well connected. Don't worry the connectivity and servicing is much better than anyone else. It has to be as they have to service the rich, the professionals , the defence science estblishsments and all the scientists, amercians. etc. Second only to Canberra which is another dead town for foreigners.

I do recall a Singaporean doctor called Ernie or something like that who became a wine dealer.

Of all the cities in Australia, this is a city that you see more whites than Asians and non whites. I remember visiting the place nearly 10 years ago and I was surprised how "white" the place was. They are nice, courteous but you could sense they were cultured and rich. The only asians I came across were those on student visas.

Adelaide is a country town. It is strived to become an international education hub in Australia (a few reputable US & European institutions have setup base here but all doing badly) which doesn't make sense to me consdering the pin size population and economy of South Australia. Go there for retirement is ok but not if you are still young and try to live and make a living.

Even a big city like Sydney is considered by many has had a 'small job market/economy' comparing to London, NY or even HK. The frustration of living in a small city country town is everything is expensive as there's lack of competition in goods & services, and it's population size and huge geographical locations make it even harder for businesses to survive without charging a premium. This is especially challenging for people from developed nations expecting everything to be spot on. Imagine going to the only laundry shop in your suburb to get your clothes dry cleaned only to be told lead time is 2 weeks and price is XXX and the shop closed at 4pm. Yucks! This is Australia, what do you expect? Even in big city like Sydney you need to wait for 20 days on average to get your ADSL broadband to be setup ( don't ever trust the mobile wireless here) and your vodafone network is down for a few days and you have no access to mobile line. However, in the big city at least you get a few laundry shops close by and you can compare the price and service levels - and there's more than 1 Asian shop on the same street where you can find variety like korean, vietnamese, malaysian etc. Or you could still have access to medicine or milk when your neighhour hood supermarket aka coles/woolies are closing at 12 midnight. Try that in Adelaide and you'll cry. U get the point?

 

[xenomorph]

neddy a bit slow.
i read already understand that adelaide is a rich white men retirement village.

unfortunately, education is an excuse.
why need to read book.forget it lah!
it is who you study with that is important. that is how you get your connections future in life. prince williams wife is a good example.

up my points if you think i make sense. thank you.

 

[axe168]

Thanks. From the face of it, it doesn't look like a place I would like to sink roots into. Unless I am posted there for work, I am sure there are much better choices elsewhere for me.

Dude, when I say everybody knows somebody, it implies the recruitment agencies too. After 3-4 mths of submitting your resume... everybody knows u.. If you are condemned, ya career is finished :-)

 

[IWC2006]

I would not even consider retiring there. Its a closed knit society. You got to be well heeled and well connected. Don't worry the connectivity and servicing is much better than anyone else. It has to be as they have to service the rich, the professionals , the defence science estblishsments and all the scientists, amercians. etc. Second only to Canberra which is another dead town for foreigners.

I do recall a Singaporean doctor called Ernie or something like that who became a wine dealer.

Of all the cities in Australia, this is a city that you see more whites than Asians and non whites. I remember visiting the place nearly 10 years ago and I was surprised how "white" the place was. They are nice, courteous but you could sense they were cultured and rich. The only asians I came across were those on student visas.

in another words - it's an overpriced country town.

 

[scroobal]

Country town yes, expensive yes but the residents can afford it. More importantly you will not fit in. Your children might if they went in early. I was curious when South African Nobel laureate J.M.Coetzee made Adelaide his home despite having a lecturing position in the US and took up an offer to visit a contact. Culture and education seem to be high on their agenda. I suppose as it evolved as a university town. The dearth of Asians there is clearly evident it does not appeal to the price conscious lot. Still unable to crack why there are HK, Koreans and Japanese there. Sydney, Melbourne and Perth are much better to adapt.

in another words - it's an overpriced country town.

 

[IWC2006]

Country town yes, expensive yes but the residents can afford it. More importantly you will not fit in. Your children might if they went in early. I was curious when South African Nobel laureate J.M.Coetzee made Adelaide his home despite having a lecturing position in the US and took up an offer to visit a contact. Culture and education seem to be high on their agenda. I suppose as it evolved as a university town. The dearth of Asians there is clearly evident it does not appeal to the price conscious lot. Still unable to crack why there are HK, Koreans and Japanese there. Sydney, Melbourne and Perth are much better to adapt.

well it can't be worse than Darwin, i know there's a chinese restaurant run by a Singaporean migrant. Darwin is a sad outback town - probably more aborginals than whites.

as i mentioned earlier adelaide has been promoted as a education hub just like Boston in the US (hence invited the US Carnie Mellon uni & uk - Cranfield uni set up base there) but so far they have not succeeded as yet.

hk, Japanese & koreans perceived themselves as higher class than other Asians community and they tend to stick together - i can't see why they can't fit in. There's Asians everywhere in Europe so really it's no big deal if you find them in Adelaide even the population is small - back in the mid 90s i remembered South Australia was heavily promoted as a migrant destination as an alternative to Sydney(too congested) or Melbourne(catching up Sydney) and it did generate some interest from potential migrants.

 

[scroobal]

I was not aware that it was promoted as a education hub. Singapore and Malaysia kids who go to boarding schools are by referrals and recommendation. I remember last year the Headmaster of one of the schools was invited by a member of Singapore Island Country and an old boy of the school to give a talk at the request of interested parents. None of the elite schools have ever advertised in Singapore. It all referrals and networks.

The HK, Japs and Koreans are actually fitting in. The ones I met all spoke English very well and seem to have some sort of western educational background and mixed well with the caucasians. Its the general singapore migrants that I don't will make it. You know Singaporeans generally like things cheap and prefer Sydney, Melbourne, Perth and lately Brisbane.

 

[IWC2006]

I was not aware that it was promoted as a education hub. Singapore and Malaysia kids who go to boarding schools are by referrals and recommendation. I remember last year the Headmaster of one of the schools was invited by a member of Singapore Island Country and an old boy of the school to give a talk at the request of interested parents. None of the elite schools have ever advertised in Singapore. It all referrals and networks.

The HK, Japs and Koreans are actually fitting in. The ones I met all spoke English very well and seem to have some sort of western educational background and mixed well with the caucasians. Its the general singapore migrants that I don't will make it. You know Singaporeans generally like things cheap and prefer Sydney, Melbourne, Perth and lately Brisbane.

Sporeans are indeed annoying.
I don't think there's a 'cheap' city in Australia but Sporeans do expect everything ticks at the lowest cost. Well, even the white immigrants (from American, kiwis, canadians, South Africans, pommies, Irish I spoke with are complaining the value they received in OZ are substandard, so don't even talk about Sporean.