http://mil.news.sina.com.cn/jssd/2018-07-23/doc-ihftenhy7575931.shtml
俄曝苏57价格竟比歼15还便宜 这种情况谁还会买FC31
俄曝苏57价格竟比歼15还便宜 这种情况谁还会买FC31
0
近段时间以来，苏-57的话题备受外界关注。这其中除了首批先期采购12架苏-57是俄军的说法之外，后续的一些衍生话题，诸如苏-57出口、俄罗斯直接研制第6代战机的说法其实都和俄军无关。
那么这些说法是哪里传出来的呢？大多数说法其实源自俄联邦杜马工业委员会副主席、俄罗斯机器制造联盟副总裁弗拉基米尔·库杰尼奥夫，他在大谈特谈苏-57时还提到了一点，他提到，苏-57比F-35便宜2.5倍，即便按F-35的最高价格，苏-57的价格也不过4300万美元，这个价格和俄军自用的苏-35一样，比中国海军的歼-15（约6000万美元）便宜的多。这说法靠谱么？今天，我们就来说说这事。
△苏-57的价格若真只要4000多万美元，这将是很惊人的价格
美国空军的F-22和F-35两型第五代隐身战机的单价数以亿美元计，而对于当前的俄罗斯国防经费来说，是无论如何也无法承受如此昂贵的战机。苏-57战机的造价最多只要4300万美元听起来自然令人匪夷所思，而且消息来源还是杜马工业委员会副主席，似乎很可信。要知道，这个价格可是要比很多非隐身的第四代战斗机还要便宜。
对于现代战斗机来说，费用应该将三大部分都计算在内，包括研发费用、生产费用以及服役费用。现在俄罗斯官员所说的苏-57战机4300万美元的这个费用，并非全部费用。这在俄现役战机中是有先例的，比如苏-30SM的价格仅要约3000万美元（2亿人民币左右），为啥这么便宜？印度人把研发费用出的差不多了吗。
△歼-15的单价为4亿人民币左右
就苏-57而言，如果按照军方采购价格来算的话，至少还应该加上研发费用。苏-57可是俄军自己的项目自己的钱，研发成本高昂，这也是外界关注印度资金能否进来的原因。
也就是说，研发全程的所有花费和开销要分摊到批量生产的每一架战机上。所以，通常来说，最初几个批次的战机采购价格都会比较高，就是因为其中分摊的研发费用比较多。等到战机的量产数量逐渐增多以后，每架分摊的研发费用就少多了。美国F-35就是如此，随着产量大幅增加，其平均采购价格从最初的1.2亿美元将会逐渐降低到比较合理的8000万美元。
△F-35的价格在大批量生产后才开始降低
显然，如果苏霍伊公司以4300万美元的低价将苏-57战机出售给俄空天军，这笔生意必然是要亏本的。为了弥补苏霍伊公司的损失，俄罗斯政府和军方就必须给其一定的优惠政策和条件。这些优惠不太可能以政府补贴的形式发放，应该是准许苏霍伊公司向国外用户出口苏-57战机来作为交换条件。这样，苏霍伊公司就可以通过向国外用户高价出口苏-57战机，来补偿国内销售的损失，甚至还可能赚更多。
从目前世界第五代战机的外销市场来看，美制F-35战机无疑占据主流，而中国正在研发中的FC-31/歼-31也力图抢一杯羹。如果俄罗斯将苏-57战机推向国际市场，无疑会给世界战斗机市场带来很大影响。因为像苏-57这样双发重型隐身战机是毫无疑问的国之利器，一般都不会准许出口。比如，美国国会早就发出禁令，不允许F-22战机出口。同样，中国自主研发的歼-20也是绝对不会许给他国。那么，唯有俄罗斯敢于且愿意将苏-57战机摆在国际军火市场的货架上，如果有的国家可以得到这型战机，自然也不会选择总体性能上要低一等的F-35和FC-31。
△中东土豪买东西钱不是关键
此外，也正是因为有着总体性能上的优势，苏-57战机在国际军火市场上的价格应该也不会低于上亿美元。对于很多不差钱的土豪国家来说，特别是中东阿拉伯国家，这个价格并不算贵。更重要的是，这些中东阿拉伯国家如果能够拥有苏-57战机，就有了跟以色列F-35战机叫板的实力，其对于中东地区军力态势所产生的影响是不可估量的。（作者署名：北国防务）
Russia exposed Su 57 price is actually cheaper than 歼15. Who will buy FC31 in this situation?
Russia exposed Su 57 price is actually cheaper than 歼15. Who will buy FC31 in this situation?
0
Recently, the topic of Su-57 has received much attention from the outside world. In addition to the first batch of 12 Su-57 purchases of the Russian army, the following follow-up issues, such as the Su-57 export, Russia's direct development of the 6th generation fighters, have nothing to do with the Russian military.
So where did these claims come from? Most of the arguments are actually derived from Vladimir Kujniov, vice chairman of the Russian Federation Duma Industrial Committee and vice president of the Russian Machine Manufacturing Alliance. He also mentioned a bit when he talked about the Su-57. He mentioned The Su-57 is 2.5 times cheaper than the F-35. Even at the highest price of the F-35, the price of the Su-57 is only $43 million. This price is the same as that of the Soviet-owned Su-35. 15 (about 60 million US dollars) is much cheaper. Is this statement reliable? Today, let's talk about it.
If the price of △Su-57 is really more than 40 million US dollars, it will be a very amazing price. If the price of sue-57 is really more than 40 million US dollars, it will be an amazing price.
The US Air Force's F-22 and F-35 two-generation stealth fighters are priced at hundreds of millions of dollars, and for the current Russian defense funds, they can't afford such expensive fighters anyway. The cost of the Su-57 is as high as $43 million, which sounds incredible, and the source is the vice chairman of the Duma Industrial Committee. It seems to be very credible. You know, this price is cheaper than many non-stealth fourth-generation fighters.
For modern fighters, the cost should include three major components, including research and development costs, production costs, and service costs. The Russian official said that the cost of the Su-57 fighter's $43 million is not the full cost. This is a precedent in the Russian active fighters. For example, the price of the Su-30SM is only about 30 million US dollars (about 200 million yuan). Why is it so cheap? Are Indians spending almost the same amount of research and development?
The unit price of △歼-15 is about 400 million RMB. The unit price of △歼-15 is about 400 million RMB.
As far as Su-57 is concerned, if it is calculated according to the military purchase price, at least R&D expenses should be added. Su-57 is the Russian military's own project, and the cost of research and development is high. This is also the reason why the outside world is concerned about whether Indian funds can come in.
That is to say, all the expenses and expenses of the whole process of research and development should be allocated to each fighter of mass production. Therefore, in general, the purchase price of the first few batches of fighters will be higher, because the research and development costs are more. By the time the number of productions of fighters is gradually increasing, the cost of research and development for each share is much less. This is the case with the US F-35. As production volumes increase significantly, its average purchase price will gradually decrease from the initial $120 million to a more reasonable $80 million.
The price of △F-35 began to decrease after mass production. The price of △F-35 began to decrease after mass production.
Obviously, if Sukhoi sells the Su-57 fighter to the Russian Air Force at a low price of $43 million, the business must be at a loss. In order to make up for the losses of Sukhoi, the Russian government and the military must give them certain preferential policies and conditions. These offers are unlikely to be issued in the form of government subsidies, and should be used to allow Sukhoi to export Su-57 fighters to foreign users. In this way, Sukhoi can compensate for the loss of domestic sales by exporting Su-57 fighters to foreign users at a high price, and may even earn more.
Judging from the current export market of the world's fifth-generation fighters, the US-made F-35 fighters undoubtedly dominate the mainstream, while the FC-31/歼-31, which China is developing, is also trying to grab a piece of it. If Russia pushes the Su-57 fighter to the international market, it will undoubtedly have a great impact on the world fighter market. Because the dual-issue heavy-duty stealth fighters like the Su-57 are undoubtedly the weapon of the country, they are generally not allowed to export. For example, the US Congress has long issued a ban on the export of F-22 fighters. Similarly, the 歼-20, which China independently developed, will never be allowed to be given to other countries. Then, only Russia dares to and is willing to put the Su-57 on the shelves of the international arms market. If some countries can get this type of fighter, it will naturally not choose the F-35 and FC with lower overall performance. -31.
△ Middle East local tyrants to buy things is not the key △ Middle East local tyrants to buy things is not the key
In addition, precisely because of the overall performance advantages, the price of the Su-57 fighter aircraft in the international arms market should not be lower than hundreds of millions of dollars. For many local countries that are not bad money, especially in the Arab countries of the Middle East, this price is not expensive. More importantly, if these Arab countries in the Middle East can have the Su-57 fighters, they will have the strength to fight against the Israeli F-35 fighters. The impact on the military situation in the Middle East is immeasurable. (Author's signature: Northern Defense)
俄曝苏57价格竟比歼15还便宜 这种情况谁还会买FC31
俄曝苏57价格竟比歼15还便宜 这种情况谁还会买FC31
0
近段时间以来，苏-57的话题备受外界关注。这其中除了首批先期采购12架苏-57是俄军的说法之外，后续的一些衍生话题，诸如苏-57出口、俄罗斯直接研制第6代战机的说法其实都和俄军无关。
那么这些说法是哪里传出来的呢？大多数说法其实源自俄联邦杜马工业委员会副主席、俄罗斯机器制造联盟副总裁弗拉基米尔·库杰尼奥夫，他在大谈特谈苏-57时还提到了一点，他提到，苏-57比F-35便宜2.5倍，即便按F-35的最高价格，苏-57的价格也不过4300万美元，这个价格和俄军自用的苏-35一样，比中国海军的歼-15（约6000万美元）便宜的多。这说法靠谱么？今天，我们就来说说这事。
美国空军的F-22和F-35两型第五代隐身战机的单价数以亿美元计，而对于当前的俄罗斯国防经费来说，是无论如何也无法承受如此昂贵的战机。苏-57战机的造价最多只要4300万美元听起来自然令人匪夷所思，而且消息来源还是杜马工业委员会副主席，似乎很可信。要知道，这个价格可是要比很多非隐身的第四代战斗机还要便宜。
对于现代战斗机来说，费用应该将三大部分都计算在内，包括研发费用、生产费用以及服役费用。现在俄罗斯官员所说的苏-57战机4300万美元的这个费用，并非全部费用。这在俄现役战机中是有先例的，比如苏-30SM的价格仅要约3000万美元（2亿人民币左右），为啥这么便宜？印度人把研发费用出的差不多了吗。
就苏-57而言，如果按照军方采购价格来算的话，至少还应该加上研发费用。苏-57可是俄军自己的项目自己的钱，研发成本高昂，这也是外界关注印度资金能否进来的原因。
也就是说，研发全程的所有花费和开销要分摊到批量生产的每一架战机上。所以，通常来说，最初几个批次的战机采购价格都会比较高，就是因为其中分摊的研发费用比较多。等到战机的量产数量逐渐增多以后，每架分摊的研发费用就少多了。美国F-35就是如此，随着产量大幅增加，其平均采购价格从最初的1.2亿美元将会逐渐降低到比较合理的8000万美元。
显然，如果苏霍伊公司以4300万美元的低价将苏-57战机出售给俄空天军，这笔生意必然是要亏本的。为了弥补苏霍伊公司的损失，俄罗斯政府和军方就必须给其一定的优惠政策和条件。这些优惠不太可能以政府补贴的形式发放，应该是准许苏霍伊公司向国外用户出口苏-57战机来作为交换条件。这样，苏霍伊公司就可以通过向国外用户高价出口苏-57战机，来补偿国内销售的损失，甚至还可能赚更多。
从目前世界第五代战机的外销市场来看，美制F-35战机无疑占据主流，而中国正在研发中的FC-31/歼-31也力图抢一杯羹。如果俄罗斯将苏-57战机推向国际市场，无疑会给世界战斗机市场带来很大影响。因为像苏-57这样双发重型隐身战机是毫无疑问的国之利器，一般都不会准许出口。比如，美国国会早就发出禁令，不允许F-22战机出口。同样，中国自主研发的歼-20也是绝对不会许给他国。那么，唯有俄罗斯敢于且愿意将苏-57战机摆在国际军火市场的货架上，如果有的国家可以得到这型战机，自然也不会选择总体性能上要低一等的F-35和FC-31。
此外，也正是因为有着总体性能上的优势，苏-57战机在国际军火市场上的价格应该也不会低于上亿美元。对于很多不差钱的土豪国家来说，特别是中东阿拉伯国家，这个价格并不算贵。更重要的是，这些中东阿拉伯国家如果能够拥有苏-57战机，就有了跟以色列F-35战机叫板的实力，其对于中东地区军力态势所产生的影响是不可估量的。（作者署名：北国防务）
Russia exposed Su 57 price is actually cheaper than 歼15. Who will buy FC31 in this situation?
Russia exposed Su 57 price is actually cheaper than 歼15. Who will buy FC31 in this situation?
0
Recently, the topic of Su-57 has received much attention from the outside world. In addition to the first batch of 12 Su-57 purchases of the Russian army, the following follow-up issues, such as the Su-57 export, Russia's direct development of the 6th generation fighters, have nothing to do with the Russian military.
So where did these claims come from? Most of the arguments are actually derived from Vladimir Kujniov, vice chairman of the Russian Federation Duma Industrial Committee and vice president of the Russian Machine Manufacturing Alliance. He also mentioned a bit when he talked about the Su-57. He mentioned The Su-57 is 2.5 times cheaper than the F-35. Even at the highest price of the F-35, the price of the Su-57 is only $43 million. This price is the same as that of the Soviet-owned Su-35. 15 (about 60 million US dollars) is much cheaper. Is this statement reliable? Today, let's talk about it.
If the price of △Su-57 is really more than 40 million US dollars, it will be a very amazing price. If the price of sue-57 is really more than 40 million US dollars, it will be an amazing price.
The US Air Force's F-22 and F-35 two-generation stealth fighters are priced at hundreds of millions of dollars, and for the current Russian defense funds, they can't afford such expensive fighters anyway. The cost of the Su-57 is as high as $43 million, which sounds incredible, and the source is the vice chairman of the Duma Industrial Committee. It seems to be very credible. You know, this price is cheaper than many non-stealth fourth-generation fighters.
For modern fighters, the cost should include three major components, including research and development costs, production costs, and service costs. The Russian official said that the cost of the Su-57 fighter's $43 million is not the full cost. This is a precedent in the Russian active fighters. For example, the price of the Su-30SM is only about 30 million US dollars (about 200 million yuan). Why is it so cheap? Are Indians spending almost the same amount of research and development?
The unit price of △歼-15 is about 400 million RMB. The unit price of △歼-15 is about 400 million RMB.
As far as Su-57 is concerned, if it is calculated according to the military purchase price, at least R&D expenses should be added. Su-57 is the Russian military's own project, and the cost of research and development is high. This is also the reason why the outside world is concerned about whether Indian funds can come in.
That is to say, all the expenses and expenses of the whole process of research and development should be allocated to each fighter of mass production. Therefore, in general, the purchase price of the first few batches of fighters will be higher, because the research and development costs are more. By the time the number of productions of fighters is gradually increasing, the cost of research and development for each share is much less. This is the case with the US F-35. As production volumes increase significantly, its average purchase price will gradually decrease from the initial $120 million to a more reasonable $80 million.
The price of △F-35 began to decrease after mass production. The price of △F-35 began to decrease after mass production.
Obviously, if Sukhoi sells the Su-57 fighter to the Russian Air Force at a low price of $43 million, the business must be at a loss. In order to make up for the losses of Sukhoi, the Russian government and the military must give them certain preferential policies and conditions. These offers are unlikely to be issued in the form of government subsidies, and should be used to allow Sukhoi to export Su-57 fighters to foreign users. In this way, Sukhoi can compensate for the loss of domestic sales by exporting Su-57 fighters to foreign users at a high price, and may even earn more.
Judging from the current export market of the world's fifth-generation fighters, the US-made F-35 fighters undoubtedly dominate the mainstream, while the FC-31/歼-31, which China is developing, is also trying to grab a piece of it. If Russia pushes the Su-57 fighter to the international market, it will undoubtedly have a great impact on the world fighter market. Because the dual-issue heavy-duty stealth fighters like the Su-57 are undoubtedly the weapon of the country, they are generally not allowed to export. For example, the US Congress has long issued a ban on the export of F-22 fighters. Similarly, the 歼-20, which China independently developed, will never be allowed to be given to other countries. Then, only Russia dares to and is willing to put the Su-57 on the shelves of the international arms market. If some countries can get this type of fighter, it will naturally not choose the F-35 and FC with lower overall performance. -31.
△ Middle East local tyrants to buy things is not the key △ Middle East local tyrants to buy things is not the key
In addition, precisely because of the overall performance advantages, the price of the Su-57 fighter aircraft in the international arms market should not be lower than hundreds of millions of dollars. For many local countries that are not bad money, especially in the Arab countries of the Middle East, this price is not expensive. More importantly, if these Arab countries in the Middle East can have the Su-57 fighters, they will have the strength to fight against the Israeli F-35 fighters. The impact on the military situation in the Middle East is immeasurable. (Author's signature: Northern Defense)
