China built Airliner...

[Goh Meng Seng]

Yes, you are right about that but Japan and Korea also did a cut and paste too. Actually, to an extend, some of the Chinese technology is from US as well.

I mean, nobody will want to reinvent the wheel, right? If I remember correctly, Japan isn't new to rocket technology. They have been trying it out since the last century with no fruitful results.

It is a strange thing though. The Japanese are well known for their good QC and such but it still ends up with quite a number of failures. While the Chinese are perceived to be lax in the quality of the things they produced but somehow, they are able to get it right.

I would say that both the Korean and Japanese do have certain urgency to get their rocket technology right because of the threat of North Korean missile threats.

Goh Meng Seng

Allo Ah Goh,

You seemed pretty hard on "Technological Advanced" Japan and Korea in their space endeavours viz China. BUT, it's an indisputable fact ze Chinese efforts are mainly cut-n-pastes from the Russians. Even the re-entry vehicle is the vintage type! Also, the Chinese have been in the rocket game much much earlier than Jap and Kimchi due to different priorities. So, the compare is not useful. Let's see 10 yrs down the road what happens. If you're unfortunately not around then, I can burn the outcomes to you. BUT, I'll bet my shirt and underwear that Japan will surpass China in this regard. You're most welcome to accept my bet. Want?

:oIo:

 

[TeeKee]

I mean, nobody will want to reinvent the wheel, right?

isn't this why the patents office are setup for? LOL!

 

[FuckSamLeong]

Japan and Korea is not the same as Israel, India, North Korea, Pakistan and very soon Iran. South Africa gave up theirs. Japan and Korea is being held back by moral debts. And Japan can very well afford to test failure technology.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

isn't this why the patents office are setup for? LOL!

In the sense... yes.

Actually in today's world, technology is no longer country-centric anymore. Any items on sold in the world market would most probably include technologies from various parts of the world.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Ramseth]

I think that by now, many countries can launch a rocket to reach the moon. The problem is that this rocket is not carrying a warhead to explode on impact; it's carrying a spaceship with astronauts who're supposed to come back.

Launching a rocket from earth with all human and material resources around is relatively easy nowadays. After landing a spaceship with 3 astronauts on the moon, relaunching it back to earth is the problem. I think that even Russia haven't figured that one out yet. So far, it's only the USA since 1969.

 

[TeeKee]

Launching a rocket from earth with all human and material resources around is relatively easy nowadays. After landing a spaceship with 3 astronauts on the moon, relaunching it back to earth is the problem. I think that even Russia haven't figured that one out yet. So far, it's only the USA since 1969.

no need to launch the slowmow rockets lah!

ask Obama to declassify UFO documents, and share the flying saucers technologies with us...

Honda & Toyota then can mass produce flying saucers....

we could all go to space....to take a peek at God's creation...

who still buy this junk nowadays?

 

[GoFlyKiteNow]

Dear GMS

China I am afraid is biting of more than they could have chewed. They could have created a Bombardier or an Embrear focusing on 70 to 150 seaters. They chose a 200 seater directly in competition with the A350 and the Dream liner, I am afraid that they will not succeed very well but would create an airliner no one would buy. Designing and building it is one thing, getting airlines to buy it is another, will end up just like the Russian IL-96
Locke

Last week, the chief of Aeroflot declared that the airline was ditching its Russian aircrafts in favor of Boeing and Airbus, as operational costs, maintenance and fuel efficiency have become critical issues for the airline apart from the safety factors.

When it comes to commercial airlines, it is not just a matter of making a flying platform.
Reputation and credibility are paramount.

 

[TeeKee]

When it comes to commercial airlines, it is not just a matter of making a flying platform.
Reputation and credibility are paramount.

true...PRC made computers hardly explodes nowadays...

i dunno, maybe they have stabilized the technology?

 

[FuckSamLeong]

Whoever complains about how expensive Western aircraft and technology are never heard of the prices quoted by Singapore Technology to the SAF and the local transportation industries and uncomplainingly paid for. The words "Contract Awarded To" never failed to bring on a cynical smile.

 

[OldPlaza]

Yes, you are right about that but Japan and Korea also did a cut and paste too. Actually, to an extend, some of the Chinese technology is from US as well.

Hi Mr. Goh, There are people who cant stand to see chinese people making progress in 'anything'. Lets say, if there is only one 'person/company' who invents, then the rest is just 'copycat'. For that reason, 99% of Japanese industries are copied and pasted (they did not invent car, TV, radio, video games and etc.). Ford did not invent car, Mircorsoft did not invent Operating System, even Windows is 'copied too'. Then, the entire Singapore is 'copy and paste', we do not invent Finance, SIA, NewWater, HDB, MRT...

I mean, nobody will want to reinvent the wheel, right? If I remember correctly, Japan isn't new to rocket technology. They have been trying it out since the last century with no fruitful results.

It is a strange thing though. The Japanese are well known for their good QC and such but it still ends up with quite a number of failures. While the Chinese are perceived to be lax in the quality of the things they produced but somehow, they are able to get it right.

There were many Japanese doubters in the 60' and 70' about anything made in Japan. Tin-can cars, one-time-use radio/TV... then one day, out of sudden and nowhere, the world woke up and realised that Japan could 'build quality things', by then, Japan was already a technological advanced/ rich nation.

I would say that both the Korean and Japanese do have certain urgency to get their rocket technology right because of the threat of North Korean missile threats.

China, Korea and Japan are in closely located to each other. Their priority in defense and national security should be very much similar. North Korea threat are real for all of them. It is no shame to say that Japan/Korea is currently behind in satelite technology, nobody can beat everybody in everything. Of course, it is OK to say China is ahead in the race for now too.

 

[GoFlyKiteNow]

true...PRC made computers hardly explodes nowadays...

i dunno, maybe they have stabilized the technology?

Aviation technology is something else.

We can ask a few questions here about this airliner.

The origin and design -

1. Engines
2. landing gear
3. Avionics
4. APU

Plus , some info about Passenger mile details.

 

[hankcock]

Aiyah, sinkies never change, can compare so well, but towards their own leaders so naive, no offence to any race, chinese have and will always be one of the most advance race, I've been living in china for many years, today they built the most value for money things, you name it, they have it, where in the world u get a touch screen handphone, with mp4, tv, camera etc, etc for $60, yes no need to sign plan, with the money sinkie used for lift upgrading they could modernize the whole county.

 

[sinren67]

It seems that the Chinese are pretty aggressive in aviation industry. It will most probably end up providing third world countries a cheaper alternative of airliners...


中國首架客機模型在港展出
(明報)2009年9月8日 星期二 17:40

在本港舉行的亞洲航空展，中國將展出首架C919客機的模型，預計可在2014年作處女飛行。

該架擁有200個座位的國產大型客機，預計可在2014年試飛，並於2016年交予買家，將與波音公司及空中巴士競爭。

負責製造的中國商用飛機有限公司製造了一個如私家車大小的模型，在周二的亞洲航空展中展出。

飛機可飛行短程至中程航線，最至可達5555公里，並可乘載約200名旅客。

Last time ppl say they won't buy Jap stuffs, now they say jap stuffs = good quality. The same goes to S Korea. So why not China? India will be next.

Btw, there is a report in Zaobao that China is taking the lead in solar engergy.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Quality among Chinese products really varies greatly. You practically can get junks to very high quality stuffs from the diverse number of factories available in China.

Chinese automobiles have made great advances in leaps and bounds. And now they are trying very hard to get pass the high safety requirement of European standards. If that standards have been achieved, most likely we will see huge influx of PRC cars all over the world. It will most probably over take Japan as the largest car exporters in the world by the next decade.

As for airplanes, some skeptics have pointed out that nobody will trust Made in China Airliner and it will not get the substantial number of orders to keep it viable. I believe that Chinese domestic demands itself would have solved that problem. High cross province economic activities will increase demand on domestic flights. Domestic airlines will have to increase their fleets of airplanes and replace old ones. The aviation development model for China will be sustainable.

This is also one of the reasons why Airbus wanted to assemble their planes in China in anticipation of the great increase in local demand. When a country has a big critical mass, it will be one that dictates the product development models of every players.

The Chinese has twisted its arms over the issue of next generation mobile phone standard protocols recently. The idea simply goes this way, if the world does not agree to Chinese demands on the design of the standard protocol, China would still carry on to implement its protocol over its land. Any mobile phone company or communication players who want to do business in China would have to be subjected to its "unique" protocol.

For decades, US has been the prime mover of building up the standard protocols and such. This is basically because it has one of the largest consumer market in the world. However, we are witnessing a paradigm shift to China right now.

This is no small issue because it will involve patents making of various technologies in future. It is going to be an interesting time ahead.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[FuckSamLeong]

For decades, US has been the prime mover of building up the standard protocols and such. This is basically because it has one of the largest consumer market in the world. However, we are witnessing a paradigm shift to China right now.

This is no small issue because it will involve patents making of various technologies in future. It is going to be an interesting time ahead.

Can't argue with that logic. Still it will take a long time before a global China standard becomes reality.

Unless of course, Chinese becomes the a mandatory second language in half of the world's countries for a start.

And oh, there must be no Chinese prostitutes in every corner of the world. Ditto for construction labourers. I still can't find an American chicken to call in Geylang. And no construction worker from Mississippi on our LUP sites.

 

[UpYoz_olo]

Quality among Chinese products really varies greatly. You practically can get junks to very high quality stuffs from the diverse number of factories available in China.

Chinese automobiles have made great advances in leaps and bounds. And now they are trying very hard to get pass the high safety requirement of European standards. If that standards have been achieved, most likely we will see huge influx of PRC cars all over the world. It will most probably over take Japan as the largest car exporters in the world by the next decade.

As for airplanes, some skeptics have pointed out that nobody will trust Made in China Airliner and it will not get the substantial number of orders to keep it viable. I believe that Chinese domestic demands itself would have solved that problem. High cross province economic activities will increase demand on domestic flights. Domestic airlines will have to increase their fleets of airplanes and replace old ones. The aviation development model for China will be sustainable.

This is also one of the reasons why Airbus wanted to assemble their planes in China in anticipation of the great increase in local demand. When a country has a big critical mass, it will be one that dictates the product development models of every players.

The Chinese has twisted its arms over the issue of next generation mobile phone standard protocols recently. The idea simply goes this way, if the world does not agree to Chinese demands on the design of the standard protocol, China would still carry on to implement its protocol over its land. Any mobile phone company or communication players who want to do business in China would have to be subjected to its "unique" protocol.

For decades, US has been the prime mover of building up the standard protocols and such. This is basically because it has one of the largest consumer market in the world. However, we are witnessing a paradigm shift to China right now.

This is no small issue because it will involve patents making of various technologies in future. It is going to be an interesting time ahead.

Goh Meng Seng

Ah Goh, answer me straight and honest that for the same sum of $, will you fly Boeing or China made plane? I always take 'China can' with a pinch of salt. Tell the Chinese to convince their ppl first about food safety, quake-proof building, quality electronics etc then talk lah. Nabei between a Lenovo and a Fujitsu, I take the latter anytime even though that may be the last comp as Fujitsu is exiting this product soon.

Jap excels because the top honcho slash their stomachs if mistakes are made. In China, scapegoats lose their heads instead and the merry continue to go round. Quality Chinese goods ah, can if pigs have wings!

Last time, so tycoons from Sg were stupid enuff to go China for treatment of the cancers to meet a quicker end

Better me to remain skeptical than foolishly stubborn

:oIo:

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear GMS

I am afraid that the past Chinese Record for original Innovation leaves much to be desired. Chinese fighters were copies of soviets, the J-11 was a Russian SU-27, the J-10 was a Lavi derivative.

They will build an airplane, it will fly, but I doubt it will be a commercial success. They are in the same market segment as the A350 and the Dreamliner. They will built an airplane with the technology of the 767's and 747's but they will be at least a generation behind. The last independent Russian Airliner the 1l-96 with a western engine and western avionics was 30% cheaper than the comparable western product of that generation but sold only 15



Locke

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

I will put it another way, if you are in China and need to take domestic flight. But all airplanes are China make, will you prefer take train or take that flight?

Sometimes, it is good to have choice but choice does come with a price.

Goh Meng Seng

Ah Goh, answer me straight and honest that for the same sum of $, will you fly Boeing or China made plane? I always take 'China can' with a pinch of salt. Tell the Chinese to convince their ppl first about food safety, quake-proof building, quality electronics etc then talk lah. Nabei between a Lenovo and a Fujitsu, I take the latter anytime even though that may be the last comp as Fujitsu is exiting this product soon.

Jap excels because the top honcho slash their stomachs if mistakes are made. In China, scapegoats lose their heads instead and the merry continue to go round. Quality Chinese goods ah, can if pigs have wings!

Last time, so tycoons from Sg were stupid enuff to go China for treatment of the cancers to meet a quicker end

Better me to remain skeptical than foolishly stubborn

:oIo:

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Dear Locke,

Talking about original Innovations, you should take a good look at the cars, electronic gadgets as well as mobile phones the Chinese are making.

The Chinese did copy the soviets but there are various local innovation or technology improvement involved.

As for commercial viability, you must first understand that most of the Chinese airlines are govt linked. And the Chinese can be very nationalistic when it comes to such products that will constitute "National pride".

Goh Meng Seng

Dear GMS

I am afraid that the past Chinese Record for original Innovation leaves much to be desired. Chinese fighters were copies of soviets, the J-11 was a Russian SU-27, the J-10 was a Lavi derivative.

They will build an airplane, it will fly, but I doubt it will be a commercial success. They are in the same market segment as the A350 and the Dreamliner. They will built an airplane with the technology of the 767's and 747's but they will be at least a generation behind. The last independent Russian Airliner the 1l-96 with a western engine and western avionics was 30% cheaper than the comparable western product of that generation but sold only 15



Locke

 

[littlefish]

China I am afraid is biting of more than they could have chewed. They could have created a Bombardier or an Embrear focusing on 70 to 150 seaters. They chose a 200 seater directly in competition with the A350 and the Dream liner, I am afraid that they will not succeed very well but would create an airliner no one would buy. Designing and building it is one thing, getting airlines to buy it is another, will end up just like the Russian IL-96

Locke

I am afraid you are mistaken on this count. You are forgetting that China has 1/6 of the world's population (not to mention the numerous Chinese living overseas temporarily or permanently) and the wealth of the average Chinese has increased tremendously in the past 2 decades. If they just require each of their airlines to purchase some of the planes, it will buy them enough time to improve on their technology and build up a safety track record. It is simply a question of whether China has enough economic clout to sustain its own industry until the world is able to accept its technology.