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yellowarse

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Wade also stated in Pg 43 the following using the excerpts from the ISC paper and BTW yes Wade uses the ISC paper to make his case but he uses the term leftist without explaining clearly why he disagree's with the ISC statements. You cannot base your paper on excerpts which call your leftist , peaceful communist without suggesting why the excerpts were wrong in calling them communist.

CPM's United Front strategy is indisputable. But it is well-known that post-1957 the local leftists were no longer taking instructions from CPM. The leftist movement here had taken on a life of its own, with strident anti-colonial, rather than pro-communist, overtones.

Even the Plen conceded that the United Front was all but dead by the early '60s, and all that Chin Peng hoped for was simply a leftist presence in the colonial gov't here while focussing on the armed struggle up north.

That's why Wade avoided labelling the detainees as 'communists'. How many of them were actually taking directions from CPM or were CPM cadres? Or were they moderates who were intent on establishing social democracy rather than an archetypal communist state?


What you are in fact arguing is that , Chin Peng's ongoing armed struggle next door and documented history and past activities in Singapore counted for nothing. that yes tt might have been violent activities everywherelse but because they were quiet in Singapore, everything was hunky dory.

On the contrary. The CPM had their infiltrators everywhere here, in political and civil bodies, but how many of the leftists here were under his command and control?

Poh Soo Kai and Tan Jing Quee's Fajar Generation, The: The University Socialist Club And The Politics Of Postwar Malaya And Singapore (2010) gives precious first-hand insights into the leftist movement of the '50s, and these writings are as pertinent as Chin Peng's memoirs, being written by the detainees themselves. The over-riding impression is that these leftists were devoted to an agenda of agenda of anti-colonialism, democracy, multiculturalism and social justice, not a proletariat totalitarianism.


The legitimacy for cold store is something which we will never agree.

And so we'll agree to disagree.

The last word on Cold Store hasn't been written yet. I just hope that Wade's seminal work will spur other academics to broach this erstwhile taboo topic and give us a fuller picture. (Already Michael D. Barr has just released a paper on Operation Spectrum, seen by many observers as a sequel of sorts since Cold Store had set a local precedent for arresting and detaining political adversaries on a 'communist' pretext.)


All I can say is that I am glad the Brits won and the communist lost.

That's a rather simplistic binary take: Brits or commies.

I'm more inclined to go with Michael Barr: if Cold Store had been aborted, left-wing politics would have survived, we'd have had a pluralistic democracy. A two-party system even might have evolved. At the least, there would have been a more vibrant political climate, coupled with perhaps greater social justice and more individual rights and freedoms. High GDP growth might be a casualty but we'd also be less dependent on MNCs and foreign investments.

C.C. Chin in his paper on the United Front even argues that had a genuinely multi-racial opposition succeeded against colonial rule, there would be less racialisation of politics in Malaya and Singapore, frequently seen in post-colonial states suffering from British 'divide-and-rule' strategies.


They may have been hard to control, somewhat independent of day to day CPM direction in Peking but they were still communist at the end of the equation with branches still active with guns.

All said, it doesn't really matter what you or Scroobal or I know, or even what Chin Peng knew.

The legitimacy of Cold Store depends on what the British knew: Did they have evidence that the detainees were communists with plans for violence? What were the real motives behind the operation — political or security considerations?

As I said, the jury's still out. But currently available information does point to Cold Store being in all probability a politically motivated rather than a security-based exercise.
 

Porfirio Rubirosa

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r u sure singapore has a higher Gini than the States...if so does this take into consideration the workfare scheme n other top up schemes?

We also have a higher Gini coefficient than the US, the highest income inequality in the developed world.

odd comparison though...given an objective test i wonder which state wld come up tops as a place to attain citizenship: Cuba, China or Singapore?...

The irony is that in communist countries like Cuba or China, it is a constitutional right for workers and unions to stage strikes and sit-ins to demand better working conditions.

what abt the majority % of citizens, Cuba or Singapore?

Sure, Singapore is a lot richer than Cuba, partly because of the crippling trade embargo by the US and its allies. Notwithstanding, between a communist country with egalitarian outcomes, income parity and a vast social safety net (though all limited by poverty) and a wealthy but quasi-fascist neoliberal country whose wealth is locked in the hands of big business, government-controlled entities and a minority of individuals and the masses have little voice, I'm not sure the latter is superior. If I'm poor and indigent and ill, Cuba would probably take better care of me than Singapore ever could.


what were Lim Chin Siong & gang up to in the 1950s?...just playing tiddlywinks n snakes n ladders?

So: do you arrest a bunch of people who profess to be socialists, if there's no evidence of their being a stooge of outlawed communist organizations, no evidence of either a history of violent activities or planning to resort to violence sometime in the future?

what abt say Lim Chin Siong's communications & meetings wif the Plen?...these wre apparently found in the rice/wax paper in the biscuit tins...

He also went to great lengths to debunk "The Communist Conspiracy" as a bogus legitimation (based on declassified papers) used by the British to justify Cold Store, whose actual motivations were political and opportunistic in nature. The extensive transpired correspondence shows that the British colonial authorities and ISC knew that these people were not communists, had no violent inclinations, had no links to CPM, Beijing or Moscow and there was no basis for arresting them. But they went ahead with the arrests as to ensure a particular geopolitical outcome favourable to them.

Wade's only concession to communism was this statement: "In July 1962, the British noted that that while they accepted that Lim Chin Siong was a Communist, there was no evidence that he was receiving directions from the C.P.M., Peking or Moscow."

cld they not be apologists for LCS & gang?

Nevertheless, Wade's reading of the papers here re LCS may even be called into question. In the book Comet in our sky: Lim Chin Siong in history (Tan Jing Quee, Jomo K.S.; 2001), also based on declassified UK Archives papers, Dr Greg Poulgrain of Griffith University in an essay observes that the British Governor of Singapore and his Chief Secretary in their reports to London stated that the police found no evidence to establish that Lim was Communist.

cld this not be his self-serving statement till his dying day?

Just so, LCS himself, to the day he died, has consistently denied being a communist, though his socialist credentials were never in question.

not true...for instance devan nair publicly re-affirmed that LCS & gang were commies to melanie chew in an interview in the early 90s in m'sia after devan nair had fallen out wif harry n was living in self-exile...so too goh keng swee n toh chin chye...

The only person who is still persistently calling LCS a communist despite conclusive evidence to the contrary is LKY himself.
 

yellowarse

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wah now u try to back track alittle eh?!:p...oh n u now also appear to be splitting hairs...commie r marxist is just playing semantics...still gotta to agitate for a classless society...such agitation wld invariably lead to violence n chaos...

Ever heard of a social democracy?

As I mentioned to Scroobal, the Dalai has maintained that he's a 'Marxist monk', but has also disavowed violence as a means to Tibetan autonomy.

Is socialism then inseparable from violence? Or have you fallen for PAP propaganda that socialism = Marxism = communism = violence?


i acknowledge that some of the OCS detainees were caught in harry's cross hairs as he tried to weed out the crypto commies...

The other way round, I'm afraid. Some dyed-in-the-wool commies were definitely caught in old fart's crosshairs as he tried to weed out his more moderate adversaries.


now just becoz they hv never confessed that were commies does not unequivocally n categorically prove that they were not commie sympathisers at the v least n wld hv been influenced to do CPM's bidding to some extent at least if they came to power...

moreover i note in this dialogue thus far...no mentioned has been made to the Plen's (Fang Chuang Pi) book which seems to give the impression that this bunch were commie sympathisers at the v least...also i believe Poh Soo Kai & perhaps even Lim Hock Siew gave medical aid to injured CPM jungle guerillas...not forgetting Lim Chin Siong n gang's friendly ties wif chaps like Samad Ismail(exposed as a card carrying CPM member), revolutionary Bostermann et al...ABL n anti-colonialist tag starts to wear thin, good cover for crypto commies/commie sympathisers...furthermore i also believe former CPM card carrying members like Devan Nair n Gerald de Cruz were pretty sure that Lim Chin Siong n gang were crypto commies/commie sympathisers...

Guilt by association, methinks. And the evidence from the Kew papers is incontrovertible, backed up by Chin Peng's own words, that LCS was his own man and not taking orders from CPM. In fact, as mentioned in my post to lockeliberal above, it is clear that by the late '50s CPM had pretty much lost command and control of the leftist ground here despite its vast network of infiltrators.


to me i think it was more a combination of OCS' ramifications n the misguided n ill conceived walk out of parliament/boycott of post 65 GE by BS' parliamentarians...

The academic consensus is that while the Barisan walkout was the straw that broke the camel's back, OCS was the decisive factor responsible for the decimation of left-wing politics here.


i beg to disagree...i know of pple who were personal friends of Poh Su Kai, Lim Hock Siew n gang during those critical material yrs in the 50s n 60s...n their recollection was that these chaps were disciplined extreme leftists who wld probably hv made the intellegentsia n middle classes/upper middle classes sweep the streets literally if they came to power, n that is just the mild bits:eek:...i for one am damn bloody glad that harry & gang prevailed...

You're entitled to your opinion, which is at best speculative.

I've met and spoken with some of these chaps. I'd rather go with Michael Barr and say that if left-wing politics had survived, we might have had a more pluralistic and vibrant — albeit more adversarial — political scene here within a Westminster parliamentary framework. Probably less overtly racialised politics, more social justice, more rights and freedoms. Certainly also — in a less authoritarian structure — slower GDP growth, more gov't bureaucracy, more strikes, but better income equity and less reliance on MNCs.

Of course, old fart would have you believe without Cold Store Singapore would have turned a violent red a long time ago. And the sad thing is most Singaporeans fall for this simplistic binary scenario hook, line and sinker.
 

yellowarse

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r u sure singapore has a higher Gini than the States...if so does this take into consideration the workfare scheme n other top up schemes?

Yes. From The Spirit Level: Why Greater Equality Makes Societies Stronger, by Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett (2010). (You won't read about it in the Stooge Times.)

http://www.pressrun.net/weblog/2010/02/singapore-income-gap-prison-population-high-book.html

The authors write:

"Within countries such as Japan and some of the Scandinavian countries at the top of the chart, the richest 20 per cent are less than four times as rich as the poorest 20 per cent. At the bottom of the chart are countries in which these differences are at least twice as big, including two in which the richest 20 per cent get about nine times as much as the poorest. Among the most unequal are Singapore, USA, Portugal and the United Kingdom."

incomegap.jpg



odd comparison though...given an objective test i wonder which state wld come up tops as a place to attain citizenship: Cuba, China or Singapore?...

Not surprising. Some of the world's most popular destinations for emigrants are generally neo-liberal, wealthy developed nations with a wide income gap and liberal immigration policies, namely the Anglo countries. Singapore is the latest wannabe addition to this group.

You don't hear about people emigrating to Finland or Sweden or Japan even though they rank among the highest in the world on many quality-of-life indicators — health care, education, Gini, happiness, social equity, rights and freedoms.


cld they not be apologists for LCS & gang?

Academics who are "apologists for LCS & gang"? Not impossible, but I'd expect a biased historian to stay on the side of the victors, indulging in LKY apologia instead.

In any case Greg Poulgrain backed his paper solidly with references to the declassified documents from the UK and Australian archives.


cld this not be his self-serving statement till his dying day?

Who knows? Though a man of strong conviction will usually not shy away from stating his stand.



not true...for instance devan nair publicly re-affirmed that LCS & gang were commies to melanie chew in an interview in the early 90s in m'sia after devan nair had fallen out wif harry n was living in self-exile...so too goh keng swee n toh chin chye...

To use your line: self-serving?

Anyway they're all gone — dead or out of the limelight.
 
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Porfirio Rubirosa

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perhaps this recent local book maybe a starting pt?...

The Makers and Keepers of Singapore History
A New Book from Singapore Heritage Society and Ethos Books, edited by Loh Kah Seng and Liew Kai Khiun
(2010)


Meditation on History: A New Book!
Posted on February 5, 2010 by pathslks


History has never been more alive in Singapore, as we can see from new books on our political notables to works containing the voices of those who had been silent, from the interest shown by both the participants as well as young Singaporeans born after the period.

The Makers and Keepers of Singapore History does not join this growing chorus of voices and noises. It is, rather, a meditation on the making of history, and often on the difficulty of the making. It begins at the cusp of history, where past and present meet. Every book on the past has to negotiate with the present – to find the archival sources which are located somewhere, possibly behind a gate and keeper; or to locate the elusive participant who will throw light on a major gap in our historical knowledge, and convince them to speak. So much of the research on history is predicated upon the present that it is important, and timely, to examine the gates which stand between researchers and the information they seek. The contributors to this book, including a diverse group of historians, social scientists, film-makers, and public intellectuals, reflect on their encounters with the gatekeepers, and how they have or have not been able to enter or circumvent the gates.

This book is about three types of gates, the first of which are the front gates, the local state archives in Singapore. Access through these gates is strongly mediated by the influence of the makers of Singapore history: the political elites who have charted the historical course in the last half-century. The makers have a controlling influence on the gatekeepers of the archives, which often remain closed to most researchers. The second type of gates are the side gates. Researchers rebuffed at the front gates are often able to find archival sources on Singapore history in the foreign archives, for instance, in Britain, the United States and East Asia. At the side gates, the makers of Singapore’s pasts are rendered at least partially impotent. The final set of gates exist not in institutions but in the mind, determining whether a participant decides to speak or remain silent. Due to the controlling influence of the makers of history, these memory gates have long hampered oral history work in Singapore. But they are also starting to slide open, as both defeated politicians and ordinary Singaporeans begin to articulate their experiences. The growing body of academic and public histories in recent years is a sign of these unlocking memory gates, which has important implications for the continued shutting of the front gates.

I too think it's time Singaporean historians step to the plate. The time is right, the resources available for a in-depth re-evaluation of the myths surrounding Cold Store in local academia.
 

Porfirio Rubirosa

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to be fair to OCS' detainees...i do acknowledge that the critical issue of were they or weren't they commies(in whatever form) has yet to be conclusively determined...in this regard A/Prof Hong Lysa's comments in her Rejoinder to Ong Weichong's article "Alternative Histories - Guard Against Romanticising Leftist Past" in ST 23/09/10 is instructive:

"...There has been a genre of writings on Singapore's past that has emerged recently. These make no attempts to pass off as academic work, nor do their writers claim to be historians. These are written in the main by former political detainess, and they clearly write to tell readers about who they are and how they understand what their political detention was all about. They are autobiograhical, the more prominent pieces have consulted archival documents to support their contentions. They do not even pretend to present more than one point of view. They are plainly polemical, in the same way that memoirs and biographies of Singapore's first generation leaders are.

What is in contention, particularly in The Fajar Generation: The University Socialist Club And The Politics Of Postwar Malaya And Singapore(whose editors Poh Soo Kai, Tan Jing Quee and Koh Kay Yew are former presidents of the Club and ex-political detainess) is whether they were members of the Communist Party of Malaya. There has not been proof that they were. They were never put on trial.

This is the ongoing debate in which academic historians, who have no privileged insights or personal agenda, watch with interest and comment on the discourses of Singapore history that is currently unfolding. This debate is about whether there was continuity or break between newly independent Singapore and the colonial regime, and the nature of the state in Singapore. All this is to further the enquiry into the nature of Singapore history and its ramifications...."

So what? The Brits made the arrests. And based on the available correspondences, it was plain that there was no evidence for these arrests, that the motives were other than the eradication of dangerous 'communist' elements.

Remember, the discussion is: Was Cold Store justified, legitimate? Was there a genuine basis, real evidence, on the British side to effect the operation? Were these arrests politically motivated for the parties involved?
 

Porfirio Rubirosa

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hate to quote either of the Chua sisters...but perhaps this book review is of relevance to yr discussion?...

Sep 20, 2010
New forum on state of the nation
By Chua Mui Hoong, Deputy Review Editor

IF THERE is one book on Singapore I consider instrumental in my intellectual formation as a political journalist, it is Management Of Success: The Moulding Of Modern Singapore, edited by K.S. Sandhu and Paul Wheatley.

The book appeared in 1989. I graduated from the University of Cambridge in 1990 and began work in The Straits Times as a political reporter in 1991.

Over the years, I covered major political events as they unfolded: three general elections; parliamentary debates on the formula to peg ministerial salaries to the private sector and the elected presidency; the change in premiership from Mr Goh Chok Tong to Mr Lee Hsien Loong; and the recalibration of the social safety net with the introduction of Workfare.

The Sandhu and Wheatley collection was a constant intellectual companion through those years. Its wide range of essays brought me up to speed on events up to 1989, with a mixture of fact, solid analysis and stimulating opinion. When I wrote my own book on the history of the public service (Pioneers Once More), I dipped into the collection once again - and it did not disappoint, with cogent essays on the history of the public service and the colonial legacy. I acknowledged my intellectual debt to the 1989 volume - and added the wistful thought that it cried out for a sequel.

So it was with anticipation this month that I picked up Management Of Success - Singapore Revisited, edited by Terence Chong.

The new book invites comparison with the first, given its title and its brief to authors, who were told to pick up from where the earlier book had left off. It is organised similarly, with sections on leadership and policy, economic restructuring, modification of the environment, transformation of society, community and national security, and life in Singapore.

Comparisons can be insidious, but since they are invited, the new book at 638 pages in a larger font, has half the heft of the first volume at 1,134 pages in close print. The new book has a more eclectic range of authors beyond academics: For example, it includes an intriguing ground-up perspective of opposition parties' tactics by blogger Alex Au, and an impassioned argument for more green spaces by green activist Geh Min.

In the first volume, there were over 120 tables and figures - a valuable resource for the reader. The 2010 volume has 33. And indeed, except for some chapters on the economy and social mobility, this volume is grounded less in empirical data and more in concepts and opinion.

Good academic essays elucidate and challenge. One afternoon last week, I finished my work for the day and sneaked off for a break for tea and kaya toast at Ya Kun - with law lecturers Michael Hor and Thio Li-ann for company. They weren't there, of course, but their words were, and what an invigorating tea it was.

Hor splices the laws on sexuality - in particular, homosexual acts between men and marital rape - and concludes there might be 'opportunity for our courts to adjudicate' as to whether recent amendments to these laws were constitutional, stating that 'there are definitely credible grounds' to consider such an action.

Thio dispenses with Singapore's laws, international treaties and policies on human rights with precision, pointing out Singapore's penchant for 'soft' guidelines rather than hard legal sanctions or rules when it comes to issues like discrimination in the workplace.

She highlights the double talk of the Singapore state when it comes to human rights: 'The language of human rights is spoken internationally to demonstrate compliance with international standards, while it is muted domestically, presumably to mute a rights-oriented political discourse.'

At the launch of the book last Wednesday, seminar participants at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies, which published the book, were concerned whether it would be viewed as too critical, with the plea (presumably to the Government) that the overall thrust of the book pays due tribute to Singapore's success, and that the critical points should be viewed in context.

Indeed, those who come expecting to read radical criticism of Singapore's success story will be disappointed. As good academics, most of the authors give due consideration to official policy positions. Indeed, many of the chapters are written as competent chronologies of events since 1989, rather than as critiques.

There are certainly thoughtful critical perspectives. But perhaps because of the ubiquity of the Internet, many of the critical perspectives in this volume have already been well ventilated - and defanged.

For example, the question of whether Singapore's progress in the past 20 years has benefited mainly a foreign and local elite at the expense of the ordinary citizen, is one interwoven into many chapters of this book - on the economy, culture, labour and meritocracy. It is also an issue that has dominated parliamentary, media and cyberspace forums in recent years. Two chapters are particularly insightful on this issue.

One, by economists Linda Y.C. Lim and Lee Soo Ann - provocatively entitled 'Globalising state, disappearing nation' - provides a vigorous critique, suggesting that Singapore's extremely open labour and capital market 'arguably empowers and enriches wealthy foreigners, and the state iself, more than it does average local citizens'.

The other by geography academic Pow Choon Piew looks at Singapore's recent attempts to remake itself as a global city, complete with iconic megaprojects (Singapore Flyer, Marina Bay and the integrated resorts) within the context of 'urban entrepreneurialism', with the Urban Redevelopment Authority as marketeer, and as an example of an 'exhibitionary complex' (showing off grand public spaces).

Pow writes: 'While prestigious mega-projects may often be deemed structurally relevant for globalising cities, these grandiose projects may be socially disengaged with the majority of the 'heartland' population who, apart from being awestruck by the monumental scale and extravaganza of these developments, have little emotional depth or input in these spectacular spaces.'

Another cornerstone of the People's Action Party Government's policy that receives a critical look is meritocracy. __ Kong Weng and Kenneth Paul Tan argue that meritocracy when entrenched becomes a form of elitism, with the well-resourced able to pass on their institutional advantages to family, kin or social networks.

As various authors also note, globalisation of the past 10 years has seen incomes at the bottom 30 per cent fall or stagnate, raising legitimate questions as to how meritocratic Singapore is today.

But again, these views have been well discussed publicly - sometimes by the same authors in columns in these pages.

Another critical theme that runs through this book concerns the 'grindingly slow' (Hussin Mutalib) pace of political liberalisation in Singapore since 1989. Indeed, several authors note that the same concerns raised in the 1989 volume - such as the dominance of the state - remain relevant in 2010.

Political science lecturer __ Khai Leong concludes that the PAP has in fact consolidated and strengthened its hold on various institutions in recent decades - including Parliament, the unions, government-linked companies and the media.

Journalists-turned-academics Tan Tarn How and Cherian George both consider the time ripe for a more liberal media policy, in view of the ascendance of new media - with George arguing that liberalisation is a rational response to this development, and Tan concluding that 'things may change, but still stay the same'.

The book as a whole grapples with the main theme - the management of success. As various authors note - including Eugene Tan on the social compact and Terence Chong in his masterly concluding chapter - today's Singaporeans take success as a given.

There is no sense of awe among those born after independence that Singapore occupies such a high position in the global league. It is just accepted as part of the natural order of things. Yet Singapore's political system remains premised on the assumption that the city-state is poised on a knife's edge - that a wrong choice at the ballot box, wrong policies, wrong laws could pitch the Republic into chaos.

The book makes an attempt to engage with Singapore's past, but only up to 1959, with even its colonial heritage barely acknowledged.

Another issue that could have been better discussed is poverty. There is much referencing of the income gap and a consensus that this is the result of an open economy and globalisation. But there is scant attention to what can be done about it.

Instead, an inordinate amount of space is given to a niche concern: gay and sexuality issues. There is a clear public interest involved, but surely the balance is a bit skewed, to say the least, when the glossary on 'gay community' has nine sub-categories, 'income gap' seven and 'poverty' none.

On the whole, this book offers a broad-ranging and stimulating survey of Singapore society as it has developed over the last 20 years. Perhaps I was more impressionable at 22 than I am now at 42, but the 2010 volume seems to me less authoritative than the 1989 volume.

While I found myself sitting at the feet - metaphorically speaking - of Lim Chong Yah, Edwin Thumboo and Wang Gungwu when reading the 1989 volume, I found myself engaged - metaphorically speaking again - in animated discourse, sometimes disagreement, with the authors of the 2010 volume.

Still, the hours spent reading this book were immensely engaging and enjoyable - perhaps because there was more for me to disagree with - and I consider this book a must-buy for those who can afford it, and certainly a must-read for

everyone interested in how Singapore is developing, although not all will find the views here palatable.

And in the scheme of things, that is the way it should be for Singapore in 2010. Opinion is no longer monolithic; one has to engage with diverse voices.

[email protected]

But there's one key difference between Singapore and the neoliberal Anglo states: they have much less government. In this respect, the tentacles of the government reaching out to everything from land to public companies to private enterprise (to the tune of 75% of the economy) resembles a big-gov't socialist state. Except for one thing: there's no redistribution of wealth and social safety net here.

We're therefore on the opposite end of the spectrum from socialism: right-wing, neoliberal, illiberal, fascist.
 

Porfirio Rubirosa

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i don't think u can compare OCS wif OS...totally different context n circumstances...

Why were 'Marxist' conspirators arrested in Operation Spectrum if they were peace-loving folks not associated with violence, and not even Marxist in the first place?

i believe Francis was detained for his activities wif the americans in particular Hank Hendrickson...apparently he even asked for an asylum guaranty fm the yanks...

Are you also implying that old fart detained Francis Seow because he was inciting violence? That anti-establishment figures are always arrested on the sole basis of violence, for security reasons?

?
 

Porfirio Rubirosa

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this is where we can finally agree on something 100%...

The last word on Cold Store hasn't been written yet.

perhaps simplistic...but if u look at the history books for guidances...the States/Nations in the 20th C that generally appear to be more successful n peaceful during its formative yrs of development r ones wif strong dominant one party rule of an authoritarian nature of somekind...

That's a rather simplistic binary take: Brits or commies.

I'm more inclined to go with Michael Barr: if Cold Store had been aborted, left-wing politics would have survived, we'd have had a pluralistic democracy. A two-party system even might have evolved. At the least, there would have been a more vibrant political climate, coupled with perhaps greater social justice and more individual rights and freedoms. High GDP growth might be a casualty but we'd also be less dependent on MNCs and foreign investments.

wif due respect to Chin...i beg to disagree...the demos somehow do not make for less racialisation of politics...

C.C. Chin in his paper on the United Front even argues that had a genuinely multi-racial opposition succeeded against colonial rule, there would be less racialisation of politics in Malaya and Singapore, frequently seen in post-colonial states suffering from British 'divide-and-rule' strategies.
 

Porfirio Rubirosa

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if they were just socialists...i am totally in agreement wif what u hv posted...however my opinion thus far seems to be leading to more of a mixed grey bag of socialism/communism/marxism...

like Scroobal pted out in one of his posts abv...Poh Soo Khai in his recent interview in ST expressly acknowledged that he is a marxist...now in my book a marxist shall invariably agitate for a classless society n this shall inevitably lead to chaos n violence...
Ever heard of a social democracy?

Is socialism then inseparable from violence? Or have you fallen for PAP propaganda that socialism = Marxism = communism = violence?

agree to disagree...but like u said in an earlier post... the last word has yet to be written...

The other way round, I'm afraid. Some dyed-in-the-wool commies were definitely caught in old fart's crosshairs as he tried to weed out his more moderate adversaries.
 

Porfirio Rubirosa

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tks for the info...wifout being trite, this is certainly a critical n disturbing political issue that shall probably be ard for a long time to come...my quick google seem to suggest that HK's gini is even worse than Singapore's...what does that suggest to u fm a 'State' that appears to be more democractic than Singapore?

Yes. From The Spirit Level: Why Greater Equality Makes Societies Stronger, by Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett (2010). (You won't read about it in the Stooge Times.)

http://www.pressrun.net/weblog/2010/02/singapore-income-gap-prison-population-high-book.html
 
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