CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected!

[ivebert]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

people make a bit of money from selling off his hdb flat now talk also different liao. walk also got strong wind blow liao.

LOL you are funny

Are you telling us that CB Seng is one very irresponsible person?

Plus he is fat, ugly and has a full head of white hair at 40. I doubt he will get the support of Tampines voters.

 

[Perspective]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

If they can't afford the down payment, they couldn't possibly afford the loans as well. Giving grant will not help but actually aggravate their financial situation for the next 30 years.

Goh Meng Seng

Not true. The downpayment is one lump sum of 20% of the housing price. That is ten-thousands of dollars you have to have to pay one-off and there's no instalment. The loan is spread 30 years, as you said, and it is possible for it to amount to no more than a thousand per month. Affordable is one thing, immediately affordable is another.

I don't disagree with where you are coming from. Generally speaking, the whole housing policy in Singapore needs to be reviewed. But this in the context where the prices are high. If the PAP removes the grant without reducing prices, by the time NSP takes over the govt, it would inherit a big headache of 30% homeless at least.

 

[Perspective]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

grant knocks off downpayment, or knocks off overall price?

knocks off downpayment: like you mentioned $50k - $40K = $10K downpayment

or

knocks off overall price: $250 - $40K = $210K,
then downpayment = $210K X 20% = $42K

I cannot remember which one..

Both. Or rather, knocks off downpayment.

Knocking downpayment is still knocking down overall

 

[ivebert]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Not true. The downpayment is one lump sum of 20% of the housing price. That is ten-thousands of dollars you have to have to pay one-off and there's no instalment. The loan is spread 30 years, as you said, and it is possible for it to amount to no more than a thousand per month. Affordable is one thing, immediately affordable is another.

I don't disagree with where you are coming from. Generally speaking, the whole housing policy in Singapore needs to be reviewed. But this in the context where the prices are high. If the PAP removes the grant without reducing prices, by the time NSP takes over the govt, it would inherit a big headache of 30% homeless at least.

40K grant is more like 80K after you factor in the 30 year loan

 

[Tristan]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Apart from removing the grant, the other one is to have HDB selling NEW HDB flats AT COST PRICE. - Goh Meng Seng

These are words uttered by someone with a poor grasp of reality. If GMS can enlighten me on how this can be done in a free economy, I will vote for him.

Location itself will be a factor that will never allow new HDB flats to be sold at cost. Even if you factor in location to the cost, then you will have the headache of an unfair distribution of occupancy.

 

[scroobal]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

In fact the PAP has been driven by this argument for such a long time. A direct result of tying the CPF to home ownership. To many their retirement fund is their home and nothing more.

Mr Goh

Many of us have already paid for our home
You better not bring the value of our home down!!!

Damn

 

[Tristan]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

In fact the PAP has been driven by this argument for such a long time. A direct result of tying the CPF to home ownership. To many their retirement fund is their home and nothing more.

If CPF is not tied to home ownership, many won't even have a home much less a retirement fund.

 

[scroobal]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

In Singapore yes. In other countries no. Most countries you are not allowed to touch your pension/retirment/superannuation fund to buy your home. It remains there and with compounding interest, it becomes a sizeable amt. People are thus forced to use their monthly disposable income to pay for their housing loan. In Singapore it goes into more expensive cars and over the top renovation.


When people in the 1st world country retire, they have a fully paid home and a sizeable retirement pool.

In Singapore, only the pensionable civil servant enjoys this.

In fact the PAP has been driven by this argument for such a long time. A direct result of tying the CPF to home ownership. To many their retirement fund is their home and nothing more.

If CPF is not tied to home ownership, many won't even have a home much less a retirement fund.

 

[Char_Azn]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

In Singapore yes. In other countries no. Most countries you are not allowed to touch your pension/retirment/superannuation fund to buy your home. It remains there and with compounding interest, it becomes a sizeable amt. People are thus forced to use their monthly disposable income to pay for their housing loan. In Singapore it goes into more expensive cars and over the top renovation.


When people in the 1st world country retire, they have a fully paid home and a sizeable retirement pool.

In Singapore, only the pensionable civil servant enjoys this.




There's a reason why the minimum amt and CPF Life was implemented. To ensure you still have money for retirement

 

[Loofydralb]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

There's a reason why the minimum amt and CPF Life was implemented. To ensure you still have money for retirement

How stupid can that be?

First have CPF for retirement.

Then allow CPF to be emptied for housing purchase.

Then implement minimum sum aka CPF Life to suck more money due to earlier policy failures?

How many times can you con a nation?

 

[scroobal]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Yes. Might as well call it Housing and Medical Fund. If there were no govt hospitals I doubt there will be a minimum sum.

How stupid can that be?

First have CPF for retirement.

Then allow CPF to be emptied for housing purchase.

Then implement minimum sum aka CPF Life to suck more money due to earlier policy failures?

How many times can you con a nation?

 

[Char_Azn]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

How stupid can that be?

First have CPF for retirement.

Then allow CPF to be emptied for housing purchase.

Then implement minimum sum aka CPF Life to suck more money due to earlier policy failures?

How many times can you con a nation?

No policy in the world is perfect and no policy in the world is static. If you look at the retirement history of just about every single country in the world, they have all constantly evolve to adapt to modern changes and economy climate

No one system in the world is perfect. The Western nations now have a problem with their own system, they just realize don't have enough money to payout to the retirees, Americans starting to adopt a system similar to CPF. We here are struggling to cope with the problems that our system has

The thing about the various retirement plans worldwide:

Western style Welfare: High tax and in more recent years found to be unsustainable

Pension - Company sacking employees just before they are eligible for pension

Government managed pension - our CPF: retirement fund: Cash are locked in for long periods of time



The evolution of CPF can be simplified as follows

CPF created to provide SG with a retirement scheme

CPF opened up to allow SGreans to purchase houses which itself is a form of investment. Minimum sum implemented to ensure enough remains for retirement

CPF paying out lump sum, pple suddenly with too much cash have no idea how to managed it so is instead start paying out a portion at a time

CPF Life pple found to live longer then the 20 yrs that the payout can last, make sure enough money is kept for lifelong payout

All the changes were made to address exisiting problems of its time. CPF is not perfect but it's what we have.

Just ask yourself this question, would you be happier if the government calls the CPF a tax which effectively means that you cannot use it for investment, housing loans etc and only get a monthly payment when you retire like the Western Nations?

Like I said no one system is perfect

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Not true. The downpayment is one lump sum of 20% of the housing price. That is ten-thousands of dollars you have to have to pay one-off and there's no instalment. The loan is spread 30 years, as you said, and it is possible for it to amount to no more than a thousand per month. Affordable is one thing, immediately affordable is another.

I don't disagree with where you are coming from. Generally speaking, the whole housing policy in Singapore needs to be reviewed. But this in the context where the prices are high. If the PAP removes the grant without reducing prices, by the time NSP takes over the govt, it would inherit a big headache of 30% homeless at least.

Put it simply, if you need a 30 year mortgage at interest rate of less than 2%, in actual fact, you couldn't afford it. Back in the 1990s, when prices were booming, PAP created an illusion of "affordability" by reducing the downpayment amount to 5% through refinancing means. It just created a further bubble formation until it has to withdraw such stupid scheme.

We have to face the fact that "house ownership" will only be a "highfalutin idea" if HDB is not going to sell new flats at cost and it maintains the High HDB price policy.

HDB has resisted renting out HDB flats to Singaporeans while through EM Services, rented out those flats which are supposedly enbloc for redevelopment to foreign workers (eg. Toa Payoh blocks of flats to foreign casino employees). Singaporeans may not own any flats but not "homeless" if HDB has set its priority right. Trying every means to force Singaporeans to "buy" a HDB flat while they no longer could afford, instead of renting flats to them, will cause homeless.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[ivebert]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Put it simply, if you need a 30 year mortgage at interest rate of less than 2%, in actual fact, you couldn't afford it. Back in the 1990s, when prices were booming, PAP created an illusion of "affordability" by reducing the downpayment amount to 5% through refinancing means. It just created a further bubble formation until it has to withdraw such stupid scheme.

We have to face the fact that "house ownership" will only be a "highfalutin idea" if HDB is not going to sell new flats at cost and it maintains the High HDB price policy.

HDB has resisted renting out HDB flats to Singaporeans while through EM Services, rented out those flats which are supposedly enbloc for redevelopment to foreign workers (eg. Toa Payoh blocks of flats to foreign casino employees). Singaporeans may not own any flats but not "homeless" if HDB has set its priority right. Trying every means to force Singaporeans to "buy" a HDB flat while they no longer could afford, instead of renting flats to them, will cause homeless.

Goh Meng Seng

You obviously have no policy making experience.

You want to be perfect?????

Flats should be reasonably priced to avoid little fuckers from migrating after they finished paying for their pigeonholes.

Sinkie leaders obviously care more about the long term prosperity of all Sinkies.

If everyone has it easy, who is going to stay in this shithole to continue his worker army career???

 

[Echo_O]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

I don't see how grants are the main cause of high rising property prices.
Property prices have gone up mainly due to a lack of supply and high demand.
This was caused by the following factors
1. Private property owners who got En-bloc and purchased resale HDB flats with their windfalls
2. Excessive amount of foreigner/PRs/New citizens being accepted into singapore thus creating rental/housing demand coupled with HDB, SLA etc not releasing enough land/houses
3. BTO - HDB should build flats in advance like in the past. Many couples do not want to wait over 3 years for a home and choose to purchase resale flats in mature estates thus driving up the prices of these flats. HDB then uses these increased resale flat prices as bench marks to price their BTO flats even higher.
4. Foreign property investors buying up private property which implicates the public housing market.
5. Extremely low interest rates

IMO grants should be pegged at a % of resale HDB/Executive condos/DBSS flats instead of a fixed amount.
Public housing prices should not be allowed to rise more than 1% above annual housing loan interest rates.

 

[Perspective]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

Put it simply, if you need a 30 year mortgage at interest rate of less than 2%, in actual fact, you couldn't afford it. Back in the 1990s, when prices were booming, PAP created an illusion of "affordability" by reducing the downpayment amount to 5% through refinancing means. It just created a further bubble formation until it has to withdraw such stupid scheme.

We have to face the fact that "house ownership" will only be a "highfalutin idea" if HDB is not going to sell new flats at cost and it maintains the High HDB price policy.

HDB has resisted renting out HDB flats to Singaporeans while through EM Services, rented out those flats which are supposedly enbloc for redevelopment to foreign workers (eg. Toa Payoh blocks of flats to foreign casino employees). Singaporeans may not own any flats but not "homeless" if HDB has set its priority right. Trying every means to force Singaporeans to "buy" a HDB flat while they no longer could afford, instead of renting flats to them, will cause homeless.

Goh Meng Seng

I will put it more simple if you still cannot understand. A loan instalment payment is an instalment. It is not healthy, but helps people possess some things. If instalments = unaffordability, there will not be instalment schemes in Harvey Norman, Best Denki and in the rest of the world. Try to scrap that and the sales will fall.

If I buy a laptop from your shop and pay you $10 per month for the next 300 months, it is different from paying $2,000, a sum which I do not have in my bank. If you only insist that I should pay $2,000 and not $10 for 300 months, I will never possess a laptop that I need for my schoolwork.

So if you want scrap grants and make people pay cash of $40,000, you can try justifying with the loan issue, which actually is an unconnected issue.

 

[silverfox@]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

I don't see how grants are the main cause of high rising property prices.
Property prices have gone up mainly due to a lack of supply and high demand.
This was caused by the following factors
1. Private property owners who got En-bloc and purchased resale HDB flats with their windfalls
2. Excessive amount of foreigner/PRs/New citizens being accepted into singapore thus creating rental/housing demand coupled with HDB, SLA etc not releasing enough land/houses
3. BTO - HDB should build flats in advance like in the past. Many couples do not want to wait over 3 years for a home and choose to purchase resale flats in mature estates thus driving up the prices of these flats. HDB then uses these increased resale flat prices as bench marks to price their BTO flats even higher.
4. Foreign property investors buying up private property which implicates the public housing market.
5. Extremely low interest rates

IMO grants should be pegged at a % of resale HDB/Executive condos/DBSS flats instead of a fixed amount.
Public housing prices should not be allowed to rise more than 1% above annual housing loan interest rates.

1. This is quite true.

2. Also true. But the wrong thing they did was to open up the rental of HDB flats. Rules were implemented but not strictly enforced on illegal rental. Work permit holders should only be allowed to rent from private and not hdb flats. Once there is no high yield in rental of hdb flats, then hdb flats would not be in such high demand which will not push the prices up. Imagine a 4-5room flat which can call rental over $2.2K up over close to $2.5K. These are rental prices which we see in private property and the yield is even higher than private housing.

3. HDB failed to understand market sentiment and also failed to forecast the huge influx

4. Perhaps there should be a ruling that foreigners not allowed to buy more than 50% in a development. So that means if there is 300 units in a development, not more than 150 units to be sold to foreign ownership.

5. This issue is from the banks. They need business, so they have to fight interest rates

The last 2 suggestions you mentioned especially the last one would mean govt having a hand in dictating the prices of flats. Of course we know they already have a hand in this, but doesn't this gives them more control?

 

[Devil Within]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

If instalments = unaffordability, there will not be instalment schemes in Harvey Norman, Best Denki and in the rest of the world. Try to scrap that and the sales will fall.

If the sales fall, then price must fall in order to attract sales. If price falls to a level where buyers can afford without installment, then you have sales again.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

I will put it more simple if you still cannot understand. A loan instalment payment is an instalment. It is not healthy, but helps people possess some things. If instalments = unaffordability, there will not be instalment schemes in Harvey Norman, Best Denki and in the rest of the world. Try to scrap that and the sales will fall.

If I buy a laptop from your shop and pay you $10 per month for the next 300 months, it is different from paying $2,000, a sum which I do not have in my bank. If you only insist that I should pay $2,000 and not $10 for 300 months, I will never possess a laptop that I need for my schoolwork.

So if you want scrap grants and make people pay cash of $40,000, you can try justifying with the loan issue, which actually is an unconnected issue.

Perspective, you still don't get it.

If you reduce your downpayment, it would mean you will be borrowing MORE money. How much more? How will it affect you? I guess there are more lessons to learn from the book "Rich Dad Poor Dad".

I am not saying that taking loan is totally bad. It will be a necessity in some cases but HOW MUCH LOAN, HOW LONG IS THE MORTGAGE PAYMENT AND HOW HIGH IS THE INTEREST are critical questions that you must take into considerations.

I already put it simply, if you need to get a 30 year mortgage at LOW interest to pay for your flat, most likely you couldn't afford it at all. If interest rate double, very possible at the present rate of 1.5%, your monthly repayment will increase substantially!

SUBPRIME in US happens when there are easy credit (through various means) for those who are initially not able to afford to buy their house. When it blew up, the whole financial system will suffer earthquakes. You may think that getting people to "buy" their flats are "good". Yes, in short term, it will satisfy some "aspirations" but as I have said, we are beginning to see a lot of people caught in this "mini-subprime" slowly exploding. It will accelerate if we do not stop the roots of the problems here.

You have to see both ends of the policy. See through the cloud of falsehood and realize the objective truth and results of such policy direction. More and more Singaporeans are forced to give up their flats now. There will be even more Singaporeans facing this problem if such "feel good" policy is not moderated.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[knightriderz]

Re: CB Goh Meng Seng want to do away $40k grants for young couples once he is elected

You must read my original policy view. Apart from removing the grant, the other one is to have HDB selling NEW HDB flats AT COST PRICE.

There are FAR CHEAPER ALTERNATIVE in place if both things happen together.

Goh Meng Seng

Damn u! Grants haf nothing to do w BTO fool! U sell Hdb @ cost nodirect rs wif removing e grant coz it doesn't mean resale prices, which r wad grants r meant for, might remain high! E grants r to help citizens who buy resale! In fact, if flats r sold @ cost, grants need to b higher to reflect e disparity in owning our 1st flat!

No wonder so many ppe call u loser!