"Barisan Sosialis" returns in Singapore

[loudhailer]

Proportional/Proportionate Representation will only be consider by PAP if and only if PAP starts to lose a few GRCs.

It is not an impossible option for them but there must be a push factor like losing ministers along with their GRCs.

Goh Meng Seng

Proportional Representation is a recipe for instability. If UK had PR, they would have had no majority governments for the last 100 years!

If any minister loses their seats, the boundaries just need to be redrawn. Boundary drawing is the prerogative of any democratically elected government. Just ask the Texas Democrat moderates who lost their congressional seats in the 2004 elections.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Understand your point about previous opposition victories like JBJ and LHD and agree that the real swing vote was strong then. My point is that I think it has changed and become smaller. The hardcore pap has grown.

Our differences in semantics aside, I believe hardcore PAP has shrunk.

 

[Sideswipe]

Proportional/Proportionate Representation will only be consider by PAP if and only if PAP starts to lose a few GRCs.
It is not an impossible option for them but there must be a push factor like losing ministers along with their GRCs.

so you saying PR for oppo are not worth any lobbying efforts currently since PAP won't do it.

 

[loudhailer]

so you saying PR for oppo are not worth any lobbying efforts currently since PAP won't do it.

Any party who hopes to form the government one day, rather than getting seats for the sake of being in the opposition will oppose PR.

 

[Velma]

The Socialist Front intends to get the Opposition to unite under one banner? Tad too ambitious and unrealistic, unless both of them have the charisma and power similar to Anwar. Should focus on finding faults with the PAP policies.

 

[Sideswipe]

Proportional Representation is a recipe for instability. If UK had PR, they would have had no majority governments for the last 100 years!

there are many types of PR / partial PR systems too.
In Singapore, PAP 66% votes mean that they will win elections with big majority seats under any elections systems.

 

[chobolan]

Is it spam if the message is different? Take a look at all of cass888's messages. There has always been a point to them. Just because a spade is called a spade and a MONGREL who bit his masters' hands LOUDHAILER chee soon juan is called a MONGREL who bit his masters' hands LOUDHAILER chee soon juan doesn't imply spam.

It's spam to me even if message is different but repeated. Like besotted who carries the same messages in most of his posts. Better still he is able to cook up a story that he is acquainted with two PRCs from liao ning.

I said many many times before, some even accuse me of spam

PRCs and Pinoys are GODSEND to employers

Useless young Sinkies complain until the cows come home but don't want to work

Remember: These jobs local young people don't want, the PRC and Pinoy didn't steal the jobs

They help employers like me and I love them

PRC and Pinoys more more more

Importing high-quality PRC and Pinoys are good for our economy

Our young graduates are lazy good-for-nothings

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Proportional Representation is a recipe for instability. If UK had PR, they would have had no majority governments for the last 100 years!

That is utter rubbish. The most stable government in the world is made up by PR coalition government.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Sideswipe]

Any party who hopes to form the government one day, rather than getting seats for the sake of being in the opposition will oppose PR.

You are right, can't disagree with you

btw if I post something about Chee Soon Juan, will you go mad?

 

[loudhailer]

That is utter rubbish. The most stable government in the world is made up by PR coalition government.

Goh Meng Seng

Examples? How long do the Likud-Labour governments last? Or the last UK coalitions (before Tory-LDP, which is still on trial)? How about how Paul Martin's government died a horrible death. One difference with a "kingmaker" party and that is the end of the government.

 

[loudhailer]

You are right, can't disagree with you

btw if I post something about Chee Soon Juan, will you go mad?

The MONGREL who bit his masters' hands LOUDHAILER chee soon juan? Depends on what you post but so far he is full of hot air.

Political parties should be winning votes with their manifestos. CSJ (concession to you, I will abbreviate MwbhmhLcsj) on the other hand had the gall to say "my manifesto is in my book! Buy my book!".

 

[loudhailer]

there are many types of PR / partial PR systems too.
In Singapore, PAP 66% votes mean that they will win elections with big majority seats under any elections systems.

Actually I wouldn't mind a PR Upper House which does not have the right to kick governments out. And whose "no vote" can be overriden by (just for example either a 2/3 vote of the lower house or a majority of the lower house + the assent of the President acting in his sole discretion).

But a PR legislature being able to kick out governments will cause instability.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

The Socialist Front intends to get the Opposition to unite under one banner? Tad too ambitious and unrealistic, unless both of them have the charisma and power similar to Anwar. Should focus on finding faults with the PAP policies.

Socialist front to unite opposition?

Not even SDA managed to do that.

Opposition unity is not necessary actually. What we need is a strong opposition, not necessarily a united one.

 

[Sideswipe]

That is why I get upset with him because he struggles to clear the first hurdle. He does not even understand the concept of politics or political system 101. You being patient and kind might help turn him around.

you stupid dumb ass chao chee bye
you know why I get angry with you? not because you think I'm dumb or don't understand whatever concepts. I always respect opinions.
I am pissed off because you made baseless assumptions about what I say and twist my words to suit your position. that's what I cannot accept.
do you understand? screwball!

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Examples? How long do the Likud-Labour governments last? Or the last UK coalitions (before Tory-LDP, which is still on trial)? How about how Paul Martin's government died a horrible death. One difference with a "kingmaker" party and that is the end of the government.

Sweden, Swiss.

It is a process to get use to consensus building. Strong coalition government is based on consensus building, not merely on marriage of convenience.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[loudhailer]

Sweden, Swiss.

It is a process to get use to consensus building. Strong coalition government is based on consensus building, not merely on marriage of convenience.

Goh Meng Seng

Strong coalitions are the exceptions rather than the rule. And with differing ideologies, the "strong" coaliation government just doesn't make any significant step as it will debase the coalition.

 

[Sideswipe]

Actually I wouldn't mind a PR Upper House which does not have the right to kick governments out. And whose "no vote" can be overriden by (just for example either a 2/3 vote of the lower house or a majority of the lower house + the assent of the President acting in his sole discretion).
But a PR legislature being able to kick out governments will cause instability.

there are many modified PR systems to suit a country political climate.
It's a world trend, many countries are changing from FPTP to PR.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Strong coalitions are the exceptions rather than the rule. And with differing ideologies, the "strong" coaliation government just doesn't make any significant step as it will debase the coalition.

Sideswipe has answered you. Whatever ideologies they have, they will move towards the center and that is where the stability is.

Of course PR will also allow fringe groups to gain seats. That is natural process of an inclusive society. You cannot claim to be inclusive when minority views are not taken into account in the whole political process.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Cruxx]

I hate socialism with a passion. But if there's anything more abhorrent than socialism, it's state capitalism. At least the socialists intend to redistribute the wealth whereas state capitalists take $10 from the proles and give $5 back just to quell any feelings of discontentment. And proles being proles, would naturally bow at the feet of their "benevolent" dictators. If I'm dumb enough to dabble into Singaporean politics, I would start a party championing the cause of minarchism before progressing to the final stage: "the withering of the state", as Marxists would call it, although I prefer "anarcho-capitalism" i.e you pay for what you use. You want the police to protect you? Pay. You want judges to arbitrate for you? Pay. That's the bitter pill to swallow first. Here comes the goodies: no more income tax, GST, interminable ERP gantries, COE, inflated HDB prices, balloting for an apartment, National Slavery, self-censorship in the media and the swarming of bangalas and ah tiongs. But I doubt many Singaporeans would be swayed by my individualistic, darwinistic ideologies.

 

[Perspective]

Sweden, Swiss.

It is a process to get use to consensus building. Strong coalition government is based on consensus building, not merely on marriage of convenience.

Goh Meng Seng

In other words, it needs to live through a period of instability to have it in the end. And that's what scares Singaporeans.

The countries loudhailer mention were all used to one party ruling at a time. It might take 50, 100 years to achieve a healthy coalition.