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Association of Small and Medium Enterprises hits out at Workers' Party population pap

Re: Association of Small and Medium Enterprises hits out at Workers' Party population

I hire foreigners as much as possible not just because they are cheaper but because they are willing to work through weekends when there are deadlines to be met. FT make running the business easier. Singaporeans make it harder with their constant demands.

Precisely. I want my workers to forgo their family and leisure time whenever there is a pressing business need. When you are getting paid by others, you jolly well get dictated to by others. I don't know why I pay so much taxes to the government when all they want is to introduce crap like work-life balance, human rights, workers' welfare, etc. Perhaps we business owners need to get together to form the government as they don't seem to be doing as good a job nowadays. LKY was absolutely right when he said some people should have more votes than others. I propose that that every business owner and those earning above $1M pa get ten votes each, those earning above $500K pa get five votes each, those earning above $100K pa get two votes each and those earning below $30K pa should not be allowed to vote at all.
 
Re: Association of Small and Medium Enterprises hits out at Workers' Party population

Precisely. I want my workers to forgo their family and leisure time whenever there is a pressing business need.

I'm all for a work life balance for my staff. In fact I tell all the other directors not to schedule any major projects that disrupt the Xmas and New Year festive season. This is so staff can take their holidays without having to worry about work.

However, when a client calls up on a Friday morning with an important deadline that has to be completed by early the following week, I do need staff who are willing to sacrifice their weekends in order to meet the deadline.

If I'm perceived to be unresponsive to customer requests, the customer can easily find some other company that will bend over backwards and the scariest part is that the competition can be based anywhere in the world. I've lost work to Latin America of all places.
 
Re: Association of Small and Medium Enterprises hits out at Workers' Party population

How did the Govt allow SMEs to depend on cheap labour for so long? These guys are lost and have no idea what to do.

Hi Scroobal,

It's not just SMEs. It goes deeper than that.

Bear with me while I write about how I think this whole problem started.

Back in the late 70s and early 80s, the Singapore government was encouraging people to be more productive. They encouraged women to join the workforce. One stumbling block was that families needed time to cook dinner, mop the floors, wash the toilets, wash the clothes, fold them, iron them etc etc.

The solution to this was to introduce a foreign domestic maid policy. For a relatively small sum (as compared to what one would earn in a paying job), families could hire a maid to take care of all the household chores for them 24/7. Singaporeans started hiring maids and saw the benefits. This was perhaps an early introduction for Singaporeans to the benefits of cheap foreign labor.

This had its intended effect. Mrs Lim would hire a maid, and be able to work longer hours. She would stay till 8pm and finish up before going home. That impressed the manager and she got promoted. Mrs Tan who did not have a maid, often complained to her manager that she had to go home to cook dinner for the family and could not stay late. The manager frowned and told Mrs Tan that she should follow Mrs Lim's example and get a maid to do all that for her. And so it became almost a standard that every worker had a maid at home and would stay late at work. Meetings could be held at 6pm with no worries. Soon the standard work hours became later and later. After all no one had any excuse to go home early.

As time went on, people started to say that they needed the maid in order to work. That's because the standard work hours were now later and later. So hiring a maid wasn't about increasing productivity but rather keeping their jobs. Also socially it became "embarrassing" to be seen washing their own toilets at home. After all "everyone had a maid".

So what was the rationale behind this foreign maid policy? Hire a cheap foreigner to do work that you did not value and could leverage on to spend more time working or have more leisure time etc. It sounds perfectly logical and sensible doesn't it? And because the government has policies to keep these cheap labor open to everyone, it is something that one should take advantage of.

Now move forward a couple of years. SMEs are typically started by local individuals. Some of these individuals could very well have looked at the maids they have at home and say, why can't they apply the same principles to their businesses? They too, might need a janitor to clean their store. Instead of hiring a local cleaner, why not get a "maid"? And then it starts creeping to just about every position out there. Cheaper workers, lower costs, more profits.

And guess what.....the government supported this as well. Because for every few cheap foreigners recruited, the company could hire a Singaporean who is paid better wages. Jobs are created overall. Prices are also kept under control eg plumbing services, electricians, garbage disposal etc. Customers were also happy. A win-win situation overall.

Now I am not going to go into whether it is right or wrong to have this foreign worker policy. The debate has gone on ad nauseum.

What I will say is that, 1 in 7 households in Singapore have a foreign worker in their home and enjoy the benefits. There is a lot of focus on SMEs, the PAP, the government etc. But really, many households have the same issue in their very homes. Are they all clamoring to get rid of their foreign workers at home?

There have been various articles written about foreign workers and all kinds of suggestions and justifications for why it has to be changed:

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2013/02/rules-managers-turn-immigrants/

The title of this article could easily have read: "Why the rules makes families turn to maids". Same principles involved.

Micro level: family hires maid, to take care of menial household tasks, frees up time for work which pays more, time for leisure, planning for future, pro-creation etc etc.

Macro level: businesses hire low wage cheap workers, takes care of simple low skill work, frees up budget for advertising, marketing, branding, product development, increases profits, plan for business expansion, etc etc.

http://www.mrbrown.com/blog/2013/02/the-joys-of-diy.html

Even Mr Brown himself would readily rely on cheap foreign labor than to do DIY. IKEAs in North America mostly have their customers assemble their own. Few engage the assembly services. Whereas in Singapore it is the other way around. Why is it companies like Home Depot are huge in North America? Because labor is expensive. There is a minimum wage. People would rather DIY than pay those rates if they could avoid it. In Singapore, hiring a plumber, an electrician would not set you back as much as it would in North America. Why? Because of cheap foreign labor. Are Singaporeans ready to do more DIY or pay more for such tradesman services?

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/blogs/singaporescene/land-people-fit-singapore-economy-025020996.html

There is this paragraph in this article that reads "Employers could increase output more readily and cheaply by recruiting foreign workers, particularly from lower-income countries, than by investing in capital-labour substitution and upgrading the skills of the domestic labour force. This was and is an entirely rational decision for profit-maximising private enterprises."

I just need to substitute a few words and 1 in 7 households would understand what the SMEs are saying - "Employers could increase their work output more readily and cheaply by recruiting maids, particularly from lower-income countries, than by investing in capital-labour substitution and upgrading their housekeeping equipment. This was and is an entirely rational decision for having maids in every household."

I have noticed that everywhere there is debate on low wage workers and all that, whenever you mention the issue of cheap labor in Foreign Domestic Workers, the debate then goes silent. I have shared this with friends and when they mention the same in other discussion threads they too have noticed it then goes silent.

The day that I believe Singaporeans will accept minimum wage laws, increase the wages of local tradespeople and rely less on cheap foreign workers is when most households no longer have foreign domestic maids, and are either doing their own housework (DIY) or hiring cleaning services (support local businesses).

Otherwise, it is very easy to criticize others eg SMEs but when it comes to making those sacrifices and difficult decisions at home, no one seems to say a word about it.
 
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Re: Association of Small and Medium Enterprises hits out at Workers' Party population

If everyone was like you, Singapore wouldn't be in the dire straits it is in now. Sadly, your breed is the minority.

There is one sinkie lady at the office who has the same dedication to work as you do. It is one of the reasons why we keep things going in Singapore. It would break my heart to have to retrench her.

However, I have to say that it is becoming increasingly difficult to sustain the effort. I have 3 FT designers who are working flat out and vacancies which are becoming harder to fill. It cannot continue like this forever. The WP policy would be the death knell of the business.

It was a generation of people like us, who had the dedication to work & 'bite the bullet' when things got bad, even to the extend of helping the company to survive through bad times, by putting in extra hours with no additional pay or benefits, taking a pay & bonuses cut. BUT, with all the 'sing song' improvement in productivity , in which the people of my generation did improve, what were they rewarded with??

The company (ies) to cut cost, just closed down & move on, paying very remuneration with the co operation with NTUC, for they are very smart, they consult them first ( remember PRO BUSINESS). What do we get? SCREWED!! by the union(s) we supported.

The same Company(ies) remember already have benefits from the government when they started business here, pioneer status etc to name a few...in short...the hard working workers are the ones that will always get the short end of the stick..mind you, these are unionized workers...and if you protest too much, you know what you will get.

The same SINgapore workers, will get the blame for being choosy, picky, asking for more pay, not willing to work long hours, not willing to put in hoilday time & so forth..this had been sung so often, that became an excuse for the SME's to sing to the government for Foreign workers.

Who doesn't know, company needs to keep cost down to compete & survive...but at the expense of?? with the encouragement of...??

The same old shits, from 1976, 1986, 1991-2, 1997....are repeating itself, the same 'gang of people' who created the same problems are the 'same gang of people' are offering solutions to the problems. Have we not seen this in 1991 after the election?? then 1997...

the cycle goes on & on....the blame still go on & on..SINgapore workers this & that...

If the SINgapore workers are that bad...they should dismantle the education system & the entire labor union...it is the hard working dedicated workers of the late 60's, 70's & 80's..built this country called SINGAPORE

Stand up & be SALUTED...all the other said things...are just pure nonsense..
 
Re: Association of Small and Medium Enterprises hits out at Workers' Party population

How did the Govt allow SMEs to depend on cheap labour for so long? These guys are lost and have no idea what to do.

It's the blind leading the blind.

Garmen also lost and don't know what the fuck is going on.
 
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Re: Association of Small and Medium Enterprises hits out at Workers' Party population

A strange and puzzling question

Why would Indian companies want to set up business in Singapore and incur all the high costs, wages, rentals, living expenses, business expenses etc etc while at the same time employing mainly Indian FTs from India? (This issue is also applicable to Chinese companies or companies of any third world country when the cost is cheaper, if they also bring in the whole village and the schools here). Would it be more cost effective to locate in India and enjoy the comparative and competitive advantages vis a vis a set up here? I can understand if they are here to tap on the skilled local workforce. But they are not. They are bring their own workforce here.

One possible reason, they are getting their businesses right here and earning higher revenue to pay for the higher costs. A second possibility, if it is a western MNC, the cost is borne by the MNC and if they could keep the bottom line healthy, no one is complaining. A third possibility is to occupy Singapore and eventually turn it into another India city with Indians becoming a majority in the island.

What else could be a good reason for the Indian FTs to relocate schools, lock, stock and barrel to Singapore, and pay for all the higher expenses when the same business/school can remain in India at a fraction of the cost? The schools are run entirely by Indian teachers, Indian curriculum and Indian students. How many Indian schools are here and how many Indian FTs are here and how many are accompanied by their entire extended families?

It was reported that there are now 200,000 Indian PMETs here and growing. How many are exactly here including their dependents and how many have become citizens and not in the statistics? The percentage of Indians has risen by 2% or 66,000 from a citizen population of 3.3m.

If the whole population of residents, including PRs and EPs and WPs, were to be considered, what is the distribution of the different racial groups? Aided by the CECA and FTAs, are there bigger political and strategic objectives for foreigners to be moving into this island particularly for the two big countries like China and India?

Anyone got any statistics on this?


Posted by Chua Chin Leng aka redbean at 8:50 am
 
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Re: Association of Small and Medium Enterprises hits out at Workers' Party population

law of jungle...wean off cheap labor..sme giving xcuse of singaporean unwilling to work shows their diaper wearing mentality. uf u cannot sirvove ship out. another ten will take ur place...about time we have entrepreneurs more of them
 
Re: Association of Small and Medium Enterprises hits out at Workers' Party population

ASMEs planned their expansions on the basis of liberal inflow of continued cheap labour. When cut off, they are clueless. Tung Luk says, no more new restaurants for Singapore; we will go overseas instead of "wasting time" (his words) here in Singapore. He should go back to Jakarta, and also, open a fine dining high class Chinese food outlet in Bangladesh too. The latter has truly cheap labour, if that alone is the cause of a successful restaurant chain.

The people who're concerned with Tung Luk not opening new restaurants are not those who have problem putting food on the table.

Tung Luk can pack up and go, I don't think the people on the street will miss them much.
 
Re: Association of Small and Medium Enterprises hits out at Workers' Party population

I have noticed that everywhere there is debate on low wage workers and all that, whenever you mention the issue of cheap labor in Foreign Domestic Workers, the debate then goes silent. I have shared this with friends and when they mention the same in other discussion threads they too have noticed it then goes silent.

there are a couple of threads in sbf on the maid issue. everytime sam and i challenge the anti-cheap foreign labor crowd over here about the maid issue, the debate dies a silent death. :rolleyes:
 
Re: Association of Small and Medium Enterprises hits out at Workers' Party population

The people who're concerned with Tung Luk not opening new restaurants are not those who have problem putting food on the table.

Tung Luk can pack up and go, I don't think the people on the street will miss them much.

tung luk stnd has gone down the sewers. bye bye...
 
Re: Association of Small and Medium Enterprises hits out at Workers' Party population

I'm all for a work life balance for my staff. In fact I tell all the other directors not to schedule any major projects that disrupt the Xmas and New Year festive season. This is so staff can take their holidays without having to worry about work.

However, when a client calls up on a Friday morning with an important deadline that has to be completed by early the following week, I do need staff who are willing to sacrifice their weekends in order to meet the deadline.

If I'm perceived to be unresponsive to customer requests, the customer can easily find some other company that will bend over backwards and the scariest part is that the competition can be based anywhere in the world. I've lost work to Latin America of all places.

Isn't that the reason why companies started to have various processing centres across the globe and work shifts so they could operate on a 24/7 basis? If it is a relatively rare occurrence and the business owner is willing to pay a premium for workers to sacrifice their time (they usually charge the customers extra for urgent work anyway), there is nothing wrong but when it becomes a regular affair, then the business owner is a cheapskate for not hiring enough people so that the staff can be on rotating rosters for weekend duty. Not to mention that the boss usually will not compensate the staff for the weekends burned. In that case, if the business can't handle the demand, they should think twice before biting off more than they can chew. It is always back to the same old familiar story of greed. This greed forces everyone to march to the pace of the greediest.
 
If WP is in power, the economy will collapse with resulting mass unemployment and riots by the poor.

I think you are mistaken. It is riot by the elites but it is OK. Their number is small.
 
I own part of an SME in Singapore. Singaporeans don't seem to realise that as a businessman, you are driven by $$$. That's why we run businesses instead of working for others. We do whatever it takes to maximise turnover.

If hiring becomes too difficult, I'll simply move somewhere else. It's that simple. If I do, 5 Singaporeans will lose their jobs.

I am surprised that as a businessman, you do not pressurize the government to control so many areas of cost to business e.g. Property rentals, transportation etc. In fact, the cost of living is a key factor determining the wage expectation of locals.
 
Re: Association of Small and Medium Enterprises hits out at Workers' Party population

The SME's have been made useless by becoming to dependent on CHEAP foreign labors to survive, you remove all these cheap source of labors, most of them will go bankrupt.

And we should let these SME go into oblivion if they can't adapt to the new economy of high-value, high-skill and high income. They had 20 years to adapt ...they wasted that time and became more reliant as ever on cheap labour. Time for these minnows to go.
 
Re: Association of Small and Medium Enterprises hits out at Workers' Party population

I have noticed that everywhere there is debate on low wage workers and all that, whenever you mention the issue of cheap labor in Foreign Domestic Workers, the debate then goes silent. I have shared this with friends and when they mention the same in other discussion threads they too have noticed it then goes silent.

The day that I believe Singaporeans will accept minimum wage laws, increase the wages of local tradespeople and rely less on cheap foreign workers is when most households no longer have foreign domestic maids, and are either doing their own housework (DIY) or hiring cleaning services (support local businesses).

Otherwise, it is very easy to criticize others eg SMEs but when it comes to making those sacrifices and difficult decisions at home, no one seems to say a word about it.

It is a vicious cycle that started way back when SG became independent. The idea was drummed into our minds that some types of work should be valued more than others. The end result is that today, no one wants to pay a fair and reasonable rate to their fellow citizens if they can pay a cheaper rate for a foreigner to do the job. The time has come to go cold turkey but like you, I am very sceptical SGreans will be able to do so. You just need to look at the contempt SGreans have for those who do the lowly menial jobs. In today's world, the high-skill job you are trained for may easily become a low-skill job tomorrow. SGreans need to ask themselves if they want to help their fellow citizens or simply take a hands-free approach of survival of the fittest.

The only bugbear I have is that the concept of NS is at odds with the mentality of SG society at present because only male citizens are expected to sacrifice when competition for the economic pie is a free-for-all.
 
Re: Association of Small and Medium Enterprises hits out at Workers' Party population

Isn't that the reason why companies started to have various processing centres across the globe and work shifts so they could operate on a 24/7 basis?

We are a small design house not a multinational corporation. We have stayed on in Singapore simply because it was the company I started way back at the beginning of the IT/Design boom. I have staff working there who joined me way back in the early 90s when everything was new and exciting. It's more of an emotional decision than an economic one to keep things going.

I sold the company before I emigrated but have retained a share of the business.

Rent is not the issue. In fact, salaries are not the issue either. The major issue is staffing because without staff, nothing happens. Even if I go to the extent of paying top dollar for a talented Singaporean, I still have the problem of retention because, after 18 months on the job, he'll view it as a dead end position if he isn't promoted.

I can't compete with the big corporations that can call everyone "Vice Presidents" after 2 years of service. When my designer gives his name card to someone, the response could well be "never heard of this company". Such things affect many Singaporeans more than you would believe.
 
Re: Association of Small and Medium Enterprises hits out at Workers' Party population

I can't compete with the big corporations that can call everyone "Vice Presidents" after 2 years of service. When my designer gives his name card to someone, the response could well be "never heard of this company". Such things affect many Singaporeans more than you would believe.

Why don't you just add the title director to their name cards? Easy solution isn't it?
 
Re: Association of Small and Medium Enterprises hits out at Workers' Party population


Why don't you just add the title director to their name cards? Easy solution isn't it?

It might encourage them to stay for another 12 to 18 months but then we'd be back to square one.
 
Re: Association of Small and Medium Enterprises hits out at Workers' Party population

It might encourage them to stay for another 12 to 18 months but then we'd be back to square one.


with just a simple change you can make them stay 12 to 18 months, thats very good in business terms already.
how about partner?
 
Re: Association of Small and Medium Enterprises hits out at Workers' Party population

We are a small design house not a multinational corporation. We have stayed on in Singapore simply because it was the company I started way back at the beginning of the IT/Design boom. I have staff working there who joined me way back in the early 90s when everything was new and exciting. It's more of an emotional decision than an economic one to keep things going.

I sold the company before I emigrated but have retained a share of the business.

Rent is not the issue. In fact, salaries are not the issue either. The major issue is staffing because without staff, nothing happens. Even if I go to the extent of paying top dollar for a talented Singaporean, I still have the problem of retention because, after 18 months on the job, he'll view it as a dead end position if he isn't promoted.

I can't compete with the big corporations that can call everyone "Vice Presidents" after 2 years of service. When my designer gives his name card to someone, the response could well be "never heard of this company". Such things affect many Singaporeans more than you would believe.

For your problem of staff retention, have you considered older workers who may not be as ambitious as the younger ones? Naturally, these workers will also have more family commitments. Too often, all I see is that bosses are not willing to pay higher rates for older workers because they think the workers will not stay with the company for long and they are not as willing to sacrifice their time as the younger ones. They are also unwilling to invest in the workers by sending them for skills upgrading. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

In my experience, if you hire a worker around 40 or older with a family and a mortgage, he is very much less likely than someone under 30 to jump ship as long as he is treated reasonably fairly.
 
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