8 Dishonest Things About Hri Kumar’s Honest Conversation

xingguy

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Source: Rethinking The Rice Bowl

8 Dishonest Things About Hri Kumar’s Honest Conversation
Jun 15 Posted by kjeyaretnam

Hri Kumar: “Any change to the CPF system would mean taking from one group and giving to another.”

Why is this Dishonest? This is the usual PAP trick of presenting their system as the most efficient one drawn up by technocrats and pretending there is no alternative. The variation they sometimes present is that there is an alternative but that it would cost significantly more.

If you want the technical jargon, the PAP is dumbing down a basic concept from neoclassical economics, the notion of Pareto optimality. Pareto optimality states that you cannot make one group of people better off without making another group worse off. Makes sense! Except Pareto optimality does not hold in an economy where there are unemployed resources or excessive government saving such as we have in Singapore.

Hri Kumar: “This is not about politics but about devising the best system in the interests of all Singaporeans

Why is this dishonest? How can anything involving decisions that affect everybody and in particular the distribution of income not be political? Again this is the old trick of pretending that they are technocrats with the best economic model not politicians whose loyalty to the survival of their Party the PAP is greater than their loyalty to the people.

Hri Kumar: “Letting us withdraw our CPF at 55 would lead us inevitably to squander our money (either at the casinos or on trips to Batam!). If this happened then other taxpayers would have to pick up the tab for supporting them.”

Why is this Dishonest? Because I prefer to squander my money in Bintan. Seriously, there is NO EVIDENCE to support the claim that most people would not be able to manage their savings responsibly.

Most pension systems, particularly those praised by the Mercer Global Pension Index Report, such as Denmark, the Netherlands, Australia, and the UK allow beneficiaries to take some or all of the pension as a lump sum on reaching retirement age, or often at age 55 irrespective of the total value of pension assets.

Rather than squandering, the Global Entrepreneurship Monitor found that people in the age group 55-65 are more likely to start a new business in a high tech field than other age groups. So not allowing those reaching 55 to take part of their CPF in cash could be holding back the whole economy’s productive potential.

It does not necessarily follow that people squandering their CPF payouts would outweigh those investing them productively for better returns than CPF provides.

Hri Kumar: If there is greater welfare spending by the government then this would require higher taxes. (According to his analysis of our Budget there are no additional resources available because the PAP government is already spending as much as or more than it earns in terms of revenues after including the Net Investment Returns Contribution (NIRC) from Temasek, GIC and MAS.)

Why is this Dishonest? The Finance Minister’s way of presenting the Budget does not follow the IMF best practice framework. It does not include investment income, realised and unrealised gains and losses on investments, and revenue from land sales. It allows only the NIRC, which is not transparent but supposedly represents up to 50% of the income from past reserves.

Despite much fanfare about how the NIRC of some $7-8 billion a year benefit Singaporeans, they are not actually spent on us, or only a small fraction of it is. The NIRC in fact go straight back into the reserves because the Finance Minister creates new funds. Last year the Finance Minister announced an $8 billion Pioneer Generation Package with a great deal of publicity about how he was helping our senior citizens. Yet as I said at the forum and have said previously, this is entirely bogus. It in fact amounts to smoke and mirrors. Out of that supposed $8 billion only $240 million was seen in actual spending this year on the Pioneer Generation.

Reserves against spending in future years, which may or not happen, should not be included in current spending.
In fact, as I was quick to point out to Hri Kumar, the true surplus is some $30 billion a year or more, or enough to finance spending on the equivalent of four Pioneer Generation Packages in one year instead of being spread over twenty!
(See video of my exchange with Hri Kumar on this subject and note the way he dodged the question. He said I could publish my figures on my website, dismissing them as not being reality. The joke is “my figures” were his figures. I was taking them from the government’s own Monthly Digest of Statistics).

Hri Kumar Singaporeans are lightly taxed and get a better deal from their government compared to citizens of other countries with more generous welfare systems

Why is this dishonest? I argued that when we compared how those on median incomes in the UK, Europe and the US were taxed compared to the value of benefits received the citizens of those countries got a much better deal than Singaporeans on median incomes.

I was shouted down by several people who appeared to have been planted in the audience who claimed to have lived abroad and been highly taxed. I pointed out to one young man that as he was probably a high earner and without dependents when he lived in the UK he would have been more highly taxed than in Singapore. However if he had been a median to low-income earner with children he would have received substantial financial support that would have made him a big net gainer from the tax and benefit system particularly when the value of free healthcare and education was included. This would be true for all the European countries. While he would receive less in benefits in the USA he would pay less tax.

In addition Singaporeans pay far higher prices for cars and many utility services as well as overpaying for leasehold property as a result of the government’s control over housing supply The PAP have also used rapid population growth as a tool to create an artificial housing bubb

In most advanced democratic countries, including the US, it is only the top 40% of the income distribution, and often only the top 20%, who pay more in tax than the value of the benefits they receive. To claim otherwise is another dishonest PAP tactic.

Hri Kumar: The returns paid by the CPF to account holders compare favourably with those achieved by pension schemes in other countries.

Why is this Dishonest? The Ordinary Account only pays 2.5% p.a. though the first $20,000 earns an additional 1%.

The bulk of CPF balances will be held in the Ordinary Account as only money from this account can be used for property purchases.

Most developed country pension funds have comfortably beaten this target over the last ten years, even though it includes the financial crisis of 2008. Many funds have achieved double-digit returns over this period. Also the interest rate differential between the USD and SGD has been very small or even negative over the last five years, meaning that the costs of hedging foreign currency returns back into SGD has been small.

So it is dishonest to say that the costs of hedging mean that SGD returns will necessarily be lower, at least for the last five years. Which leads to the next dishonesty.

Hri Kumar: Your CPF funds are absolutely safe because you are lending to the Government, which has a solid AAA rating. This justifies the low returns.

Why is this Dishonest? If the government is lending the money to GIC then your money is only as safe as the assets that GIC invests in. The PAP government is using your money in the same way that banks used long-term capital before the financial crisis of 2008: to invest in risky assets. GIC would have to pay considerably more than 2.5 to 4% if it wanted to borrow directly from the market for such long periods (thirty to fifty years) and with no liquidity. You are not able to sell the funds locked up in your CPF like you would a securitized financial instrument. Currently the total assets of Singapore, including Temasek, GIC, MAS and revenue from land sales are shown as around $800 billion in the Statement of Assets and Liabilities while borrowings are over $400 billion. If markets were to fall by 50% there would be insufficient assets left to repay the borrowings.

The PAP government may say that there is no risk of default because your CPF account is in SGD. However this just means that you the taxpayer are guaranteeing repayment of your own CPF money. The government could of course just print money and repay you but that would mean currency depreciation, which would of course devalue your CPF savings

Singaporeans should not be fooled into thinking that their CPF is secure just because they are lending to the government. What is particularly dishonest is the huge conflict of interest between the government compelling you to lend it your money, using it to invest to make higher returns than it has to pay you and not passing those higher returns on to you. That is why we need to force CPF to compete directly with private sector pension managers, not in the half-hearted way that the CPF Investment Scheme works at present.

We should also probably merge CPF with GIC and pass its returns directly to account holders. This would be my preferred solution if it proves impossible to privatize GIC and distribute shares to Singaporeans.

Hri Kumar: HDB owners have achieved far higher returns from the appreciation in HDB prices than they could have achieved by investing in the stock market

Why is this Dishonest? Obviously for Singaporeans as a whole the HDB housing stock is not liquid so any attempt by HDB owners to cash in those returns en masse will just lead to a housing price collapse. The HDB price bubble has been driven, firstly, by the government’s control over land and its monopoly of housing supply. Secondly, by the PAP government’s deliberate policy of population increase, which underpins their whole economic model and will never cease as long as the PAP remain in power. And lastly, by forcing people to save far more than they need and making property the principal asset class they can invest in.

But HDB is only 99-year leasehold, as I and several residents pointed out during the discussion session. I have warned repeatedly about the irrational way that HDB flats are currently priced which takes little account of the time to expiration of the lease. At some point, probably when the government finds it no longer profitable to do Selective Enbloc Redevelopment Schemes (SERS), Singaporeans will wake up to the fact that their leases will be worthless at expiry. There will then be an HDB price collapse, particularly if there is a population growth slowdown.

We need honest alternatives and full transparency not this web of half-truths and lies to convince Singaporeans that a system that serves the ruling PAP elite is in their best interests.
 
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Just vote all these out...& get your money back....what I do with my money, is my business..even I waste all in Bintain, Britain or Bhutan...!!! I do not trust the PAP with my money...period! at retirement, give it all back to me...MY HARD EARN BLOOD SWEAT & TEARS MONEY....IT IS NOT THEIRS TO KEEP..IT IS MY MONEY!

Can you trust politicians or anyone holding onto your money??? NO!
 
Just vote all these out...& get your money back....what I do with my money, is my business..even I waste all in Bintain, Britain or Bhutan...!!! I do not trust the PAP with my money...period! at retirement, give it all back to me...MY HARD EARN BLOOD SWEAT & TEARS MONEY....IT IS NOT THEIRS TO KEEP..IT IS MY MONEY!

Can you trust politicians or anyone holding onto your money??? NO!

Let the 76 old lady in Hri Kumar's CPF conversation be a wake up call to all.
 
Just vote all these out...& get your money back....what I do with my money, is my business..even I waste all in Bintain, Britain or Bhutan...!!! I do not trust the PAP with my money...period! at retirement, give it all back to me...MY HARD EARN BLOOD SWEAT & TEARS MONEY....IT IS NOT THEIRS TO KEEP..IT IS MY MONEY!

Can you trust politicians or anyone holding onto your money??? NO!



Hang those PAP maggots cockroaches with piano wires from lamp posts to make them dance before it is too late and we have no more CPF to get back.
BBQ those PAP maggots cockroaches before it is too late and we have no more CPF to get back.
Cut a few more arseholes into those PAP maggots cockroaches to let out their shit before it is too late and we have no more CPF to get back.
Make those PAP maggots cockroaches eat joss sticks and candle wax before it is too late and we have no more CPF to get back.


PAP is finished.
The stinking glue and terror that hold PAP together is that old fart smear of shit on sole of shoe LKY. LKY is about to die in days or weeks.
LKY will never allow good decent people into the PAP and good decent people will not want to get into the PAP. Those in PAP are the most corrupt and moral degenerates and moral bankrupts and moral filths that are being presented to stinkaporeans as moral compasses.
None of those in PAP work for anyone but that smear of shit on sole of shoe LKY, to help him hold down Singaporeans to screw and fuck hundreds of BILLIONs from us all into smear of shit on sole of shoe LKY stinkapore sovereign funds.
They are there in PAP because LKY know that they are a bunch of self serving greedy bastards and scrapings of scums of society. To call them maggots cockroaches will be to insult real maggots and real cockroaches.


WE ALL ARE NOW WAITING FOR THE DEATH OF LKY IN COMING DAYS OR WEEKS.
WE ALL WILL YUM SENG AND YUM SENG AND YUM SENG AGAIN AND AGAIN DANCING SINGING ON TABLE TOPS AND STREETS
WE THEN WILL SEE THOSE IN PAP WITH SHARPENED KNIVES HOOTING ARSEHLOON A DOZEN NEW ARSEHOLES AND THE DEATH OF THE ENTIRE LEE KWA CLAN
WE THEN WILL PICK UP PIANO WIRES AND HANG ALL THOSE REMAINING PAP AND THEIR COLLABORATORS FROM LAMP POSTS AND SEE THOSE BASTARDS AND BITCHES DANCE.
AND HAPPINESS WILL RETURN TO OUR LAND.
AND STINKAPORE WILL BECOME SINGAPORE ONCE MORE.
https://www.torproject.org/about/overview.html.en
 
During the con-versation, that ah neh already said: These are the figures. You can go calculate your own figures. :*:
 
To: xingguy

Hri Kumar, like the rest of the PAP MPs, uses arguments based on flimsy assumptions.

You've done an excellent job at showing how false Hri's assumptions are.

This is the point that I've been trying to make all this while: arguments launched by PAP MPs to support their policies are based on assumptions. If we can successfully show/prove why those assumptions are flimsy or baseless, they (PAP MPs) will lose Sinkies' trust very quickly. Why?

Sinkies of today are more highly educated than those of 30, 40 or 50 years ago. Most of my schoolmates' children have at least a Master's degree. They are better able than me to analyze facts and think through arguments.
 
This is where KJ can have tremendous impact. He should bring in some volunteers that can do the groundwork and he can show comparisons around the World.
 
Not only their system, they frequently also present THEMSELVES as the bestest, and pretending there is no alternative, or if you go with the alternative, you will either be "finished" or end up as maids or labourers in a fishing village back in the days of yore. :D

This is the usual PAP trick of presenting their system as the most efficient one drawn up by technocrats and pretending there is no alternative.
 
Not only their system, they frequently also present THEMSELVES as the bestest....

Prove it, LHL.

Now's the time to show how bestest you and your team are. Show us and the world you can have the impending haze situation under control.
 
Prove it, LHL.

Now's the time to show how bestest you and your team are. Show us and the world you can have the impending haze situation under control.

THEY CAN NECKLACE THEMSELVES WITH BURNING CAR TYRES.
FOR SUCH A GOOD CAUSE, WE HONESTLY DO NOT MIND THE HAZE SITUATION NOT IMPROVING AS LONG AS FUTURE OF SINGAPORE WILL IMPROVE

THEY CAN ALSO DANGLE THEMSELVES WITH PIANO WIRE UNDER LAMP POSTS TO DANCE AWAY

Or go stick their head below liquid line of unflushed public toilet bowls and let their heads remain there
 
getting fucked by kj is good. economics is their weakness. even after this there is no response. they are completely lost
 
If what KJ said is untrue, it is libelous; if it's libelous, HKN must sue. If he doesn't sue, then what KJ said must be true.
 
If what KJ said is untrue, it is libelous; if it's libelous, HKN must sue. If he doesn't sue, then what KJ said must be true.

HK just booked a one way ticket out of parliament, who else wanna sink with this albatross? :D:D:D
 
HK just booked a one way ticket out of parliament, who else wanna sink with this albatross? :D:D:D

He seems eager to impress, but in the pappy organization, sometimes it's those who keep low profile who hang around the longest and rise the highest, despite their obvious limitations. :D:D:D
 
thank goodness old fart can't stand in next GE, things are set to fall like dominoes :):):)

Actually it would be more fun for the dominoes to fall around him, while he looks on bewildered. :D:D:D
 
Actually it would be more fun for the dominoes to fall around him, while he looks on bewildered. :D:D:D

that's why i'm praying very hard that he gets to see the results of the next GE :p:p:p
 
To: xingguy

Hri Kumar, like the rest of the PAP MPs, uses arguments based on flimsy assumptions.

You've done an excellent job at showing how false Hri's assumptions are.

This is the point that I've been trying to make all this while: arguments launched by PAP MPs to support their policies are based on assumptions. If we can successfully show/prove why those assumptions are flimsy or baseless, they (PAP MPs) will lose Sinkies' trust very quickly. Why?

Sinkies of today are more highly educated than those of 30, 40 or 50 years ago. Most of my schoolmates' children have at least a Master's degree. They are better able than me to analyze facts and think through arguments.

Yes, the older generation die-die support the PAP. Younger generation more bold, intelligent etc. They know PAP is bullshit!
 
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