Crumbling of Singapore?

[TracyTan866]

count yourselves lucky to have entire lines of mrt up and running in a couple of years. how long did the northeast and circle lines take to get from final design to operation? how long did the east-west and north-south lines take? well, over here in the bay area, the bay area rapid transit (bart) just announced that they will start construction of the berryessa extension in mid-2012. project started in 2009 and planned passenger service to the berryessa extension from fremont (current end of line) is envisioned for 2018. 2018!!! one fucking station and a dozen miles of track from fremont to berryessa will take an entire decade less one year to complete. compare that to the circle line. i was in sg in 2009 and got wind of the circle line, when construction started. i posted the complete mrt plan with circle line in map in this forum when i returned to the bay area 2009. 2 years later, i stepped onto changi and found out the circle line was already completed and in operation. wtf?! here's the latest and most complete berryessa extension project timeline...

dec 2009 entered federal new starts program
dec 2010 received federal environmental clearance
feb 2011 federal funding recommendation
apr 2011 entered final design
dec 2011 design build contract awarded to skanska-shimmick-herzog jv
mar 2012 secure federal funding
jul 2012 construction begins
jul 2016 construction ends
aug 2016 system testing begins
dec 2018 system testing ends
2018??? passenger service may start

add 2 years to delays when it comes to bay area construction projects on a major scale. and remember this is only one fucking station at berryessa. by the time bart gets to the final destination in san jose, you and i can convalesce at the new hot spot viet cafe on hostetter and capitol. by then, the bikini chicks will be very old hens. *cluck cluck cluck* ....btw, how many stations does the circle line stop at?

The obvious you know. How abt the imperceptibles? You need to stay and live in SG long enough to speak credibly abt how the pap has affected Singaporeans' lives.

 

[TracyTan866]

count yourselves lucky to have entire lines of mrt up and running in a couple of years. how long did the northeast and circle lines take to get from final design to operation? how long did the east-west and north-south lines take? well, over here in the bay area, the bay area rapid transit (bart) just announced that they will start construction of the berryessa extension in mid-2012. project started in 2009 and planned passenger service to the berryessa extension from fremont (current end of line) is envisioned for 2018. 2018!!! one fucking station and a dozen miles of track from fremont to berryessa will take an entire decade less one year to complete. compare that to the circle line. i was in sg in 2009 and got wind of the circle line, when construction started. i posted the complete mrt plan with circle line in map in this forum when i returned to the bay area 2009. 2 years later, i stepped onto changi and found out the circle line was already completed and in operation. wtf?! here's the latest and most complete berryessa extension project timeline...

dec 2009 entered federal new starts program
dec 2010 received federal environmental clearance
feb 2011 federal funding recommendation
apr 2011 entered final design
dec 2011 design build contract awarded to skanska-shimmick-herzog jv
mar 2012 secure federal funding
jul 2012 construction begins
jul 2016 construction ends
aug 2016 system testing begins
dec 2018 system testing ends
2018??? passenger service may start

add 2 years to delays when it comes to bay area construction projects on a major scale. and remember this is only one fucking station at berryessa. by the time bart gets to the final destination in san jose, you and i can convalesce at the new hot spot viet cafe on hostetter and capitol. by then, the bikini chicks will be very old hens. *cluck cluck cluck* ....btw, how many stations does the circle line stop at?

Is the need to build the Berryessa extension as compelling as the need to build the Circle Line? Many US, Aus and NZ cities dont really need MRTs. So, dont compare the lack of urgency in these cities to the SG MRT and think that PAP is more efficient

 

[TracyTan866]

Hey Leongsam, not to worry, I had already nominated you in a separate thread started by TracyTan for The Biggest PAP Balls Carrier Award. Hopefully as u wish, that would catch the eye of PAP bigwigs and becomes a preamble of Nat Day Awards 2012. But again no worries, for this particular award, u will win hands down. What other similar awards would u like me to nominate u for, I will gladly oblige.

hahahaha

 

[TracyTan866]

That's where u are wrong. All S'poreans are asking for is a fair wage for a fair day job. Businesses are under-paying the foreigners and in fact are exploiting them. But then, the govt is ok with this because the GLCs are the biggest employers of foreign labors, so it benefit them alright. And since you obviously ignorant of the employment situation, let me be kind enough to educate you this. Foreign workers can accept a much lower pay because the exchange rate is in their favor, hence they can repatriate money back home. They can do so also because they are usually here alone, which mean that there expenses in S'pore is low and moreover their accomodation is provided for. A local worker has to contend with the high costs of living for his family plus accomodation expenses. See, Mr Leongsam, you yourself benefit a great deal from your own forum, because in engaging with us, you learn alot also. So u ought to be thankful.

Concise and clear summary of the job situation in SG and PAP's favouring of businesses and foreigners over SG workers

 

[red amoeba]

Re: He Planned All These

Dubai also created miracles by throwing money at the problem - in a matter of few years, they created a Palm Island, World Island and the tallest tower in the world.

except that Dubai treat their citizens much better - of cse, they have oil...

 

[TracyTan866]

It's said to be such by LKY, who in his mind, having a beautiful skyline at Marina Bay, having 2 casinos, bringing F1 here equals to being 1st world. The abdication by his govt of the ordinary folks and those beneath has already brought S'pore back to the 3rd world status. It's only people like yourself who are detached from the real S'pore world got con by LKY.

How foreigners are deceived by the pap propaganda. PAP and HDB showcased Pinnacle as SG's public housing to foreigners and foreign press. That is only half the truth. They didnt show them the other half of the truth ie SIT and older HDB flats in Siglap, Dakota Crescent, AMK, Toa Payoh, Bukit Ho Swee, Bendemeer , etc. The SIT and older HDB flats are certainly not Pinnacle

And the foreigners and foreign press go gaga and sang accolades abt SG's public housing because of one Pinnacle project...

but Singaporeans know better and can see through the pap's lies. How many foreigners and tourists can do that?

 

[red amoeba]

How foreigners are deceived by the pap propaganda. PAP and HDB showcased Pinnacle as SG's public housing to foreigners and foreign press. That is only half the truth. They didnt show them the other half of the truth ie SIT and older HDB flats in Siglap, Dakota Crescent, AMK, Toa Payoh, Bukit Ho Swee, Bendemeer , etc. The SIT and older HDB flats are certainly not Pinnacle

And the foreigners and foreign press go gaga and sang accolades abt SG's public housing because of one Pinnacle project...

but Singaporeans know better and can see through the pap's lies. How many foreigners and tourists can do that?

If i am a foreigner, i will envy Singapore and Singaporeans, that is what i gathered from many foreigners - from 1st world countries.

Then, i asked, why not you settle down here - since you envy so much and since our government readily welcome you with open arms.

they say no...

citing the following reasons:

= no freedom of speech
= no welfare

despite lower taxes.

 

[TracyTan866]

If i am a foreigner, i will envy Singapore and Singaporeans, that is what i gathered from many foreigners - from 1st world countries.

Then, i asked, why not you settle down here - since you envy so much and since our government readily welcome you with open arms.

they say no...

citing the following reasons:

= no freedom of speech
= no welfare

despite lower taxes.

Good point..the test is whether they will settle in SG and put their money where their mouth is..

 

[TracyTan866]

despite lower taxes.

lower taxes is also another pap propaganda. do they dare say what constitute taxes in SG and state lower than whose tax?

general statements given out by the pap must not be taken as gospel truth

 

[Windsor]

I forget to add... the socialist government also raised the minimum wage. The result?.. many large employers moved their operations out of the country while marginal local companies went out of business.

You can read about it at http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10504635

Wages that are legislated without taking productivity into account simply cannot be sustained. The end result is an increase in the unemployment rate.

Not to discount the 15% Maori population that the NZ government has to support.

 

[TracyTan866]

count yourselves lucky to have entire lines of mrt up and running in a couple of years. how long did the northeast and circle lines take to get from final design to operation? how long did the east-west and north-south lines take? well, over here in the bay area, the bay area rapid transit (bart) just announced that they will start construction of the berryessa extension in mid-2012. project started in 2009 and planned passenger service to the berryessa extension from fremont (current end of line) is envisioned for 2018. 2018!!! one fucking station and a dozen miles of track from fremont to berryessa will take an entire decade less one year to complete. compare that to the circle line. i was in sg in 2009 and got wind of the circle line, when construction started. i posted the complete mrt plan with circle line in map in this forum when i returned to the bay area 2009. 2 years later, i stepped onto changi and found out the circle line was already completed and in operation. wtf?! here's the latest and most complete berryessa extension project timeline...

dec 2009 entered federal new starts program
dec 2010 received federal environmental clearance
feb 2011 federal funding recommendation
apr 2011 entered final design
dec 2011 design build contract awarded to skanska-shimmick-herzog jv
mar 2012 secure federal funding
jul 2012 construction begins
jul 2016 construction ends
aug 2016 system testing begins
dec 2018 system testing ends
2018??? passenger service may start

add 2 years to delays when it comes to bay area construction projects on a major scale. and remember this is only one fucking station at berryessa. by the time bart gets to the final destination in san jose, you and i can convalesce at the new hot spot viet cafe on hostetter and capitol. by then, the bikini chicks will be very old hens. *cluck cluck cluck* ....btw, how many stations does the circle line stop at?

Reading through your post, it gives the reader a sense of awe..that Circle Line was built in a short time..but what you wrote is not the truth. Look at the Circle Line Timeline below:

"Plans for the Circle Line date back to the 1980s. The then Minister for Communications and Information, Dr Yeo Ning Hong stated that such a system "would be feasible when the population reaches four million".

In the 1990s, the Circle Line was first known as the Marina Line. The Marina Line was initially planned as a 12-station underground line, starting from Chinatown and Dhoby Ghaut via the National Stadium to either Kallang or Paya Lebar station. However, the Chinatown leg was later truncated and was reduced to 6 stations up to Stadium station. On the other hand, a further extension towards Upper Paya Lebar was added. Eventually, the Marina Line ended up as an inner circular line. Stations in Circle Line that were a part of the original Marina Line plans include Dhoby Ghaut, Bras Basah, Esplanade, Promenade, Nicoll Highway and Stadium. Also, the part of the Marina Line from Chinatown Station to Promenade Station is now part of the Downtown Line
"

It was certainly not as you portrayed it to be. Do you stand corrected?

 

[TracyTan866]

Re: He Planned All These

Dubai also created miracles by throwing money at the problem - in a matter of few years, they created a Palm Island, World Island and the tallest tower in the world.

except that Dubai treat their citizens much better - of cse, they have oil...

good points. Will these Dubai "miracles" last? and do they benefit the people? or are they just for show?

 

[eatshitndie]

Is the need to build the Berryessa extension as compelling as the need to build the Circle Line? Many US, Aus and NZ cities dont really need MRTs. So, dont compare the lack of urgency in these cities to the SG MRT and think that PAP is more efficient

you just shot yourself in the foot in a debate. just like what you posted earlier, "you need to stay and live in the bay area long enough to speak credibly abt how the dems and pubs have affected american lives." pray tell. what makes you an expert of bart and the berryessa extension for you to make such an unsubstantiated and callous comparison?

 

[red amoeba]

Re: He Planned All These

good points. Will these Dubai "miracles" last? and do they benefit the people? or are they just for show?

Dubai actually is planning ahead of time. they are making themselves the financial centre of middle east - which potentially is a vast market, so much so, KL is also trying to do something along the likes of Islamic banking.

SG tried but failed....

Dubai is spending lavishly on tourism and wealth management in order to diversify their economy from petroleum. Because if they don't do anything, they will die when petrol runs out....no body need their sand (except perhaps Singapore?)

Majority of Dubai population are not Dubaians, they are migrant workers , FTs...but ethnic Dubaians are treated very well, with good jobs and welfare.

But the economy of Dubai has gone through turbulent times varying with oil prices.

Someone once said, the economy of Dubai is like a mirage...propped up entirely by oil money.

 

[eatshitndie]

Reading through your post, it gives the reader a sense of awe..that Circle Line was built in a short time..but what you wrote is not the truth. Look at the Circle Line Timeline below:

"Plans for the Circle Line date back to the 1980s. The then Minister for Communications and Information, Dr Yeo Ning Hong stated that such a system "would be feasible when the population reaches four million".

In the 1990s, the Circle Line was first known as the Marina Line. The Marina Line was initially planned as a 12-station underground line, starting from Chinatown and Dhoby Ghaut via the National Stadium to either Kallang or Paya Lebar station. However, the Chinatown leg was later truncated and was reduced to 6 stations up to Stadium station. On the other hand, a further extension towards Upper Paya Lebar was added. Eventually, the Marina Line ended up as an inner circular line. Stations in Circle Line that were a part of the original Marina Line plans include Dhoby Ghaut, Bras Basah, Esplanade, Promenade, Nicoll Highway and Stadium. Also, the part of the Marina Line from Chinatown Station to Promenade Station is now part of the Downtown Line
"

It was certainly not as you portrayed it to be. Do you stand corrected?

my comparison is based on personal observation. i was commenting about the need to route traffic alternately away from the transfers at raffles place and city hall which served the n-e and e-w lines. they needed a secondary ring and parallel lines running eat-west to alleviate traffic concentrating in the core due to limited transfers. that was back in 2009. apparently, they already had plans for the eatshitndie solution going back to the 90s. kudos to them! ....they apparently listened when parallel lines were suggested. in a few years you'll have an additional line going by bedok reservoir (so disenchanted citizens can jump in). kudos to them too! ...they are many times more visionary and futuristic than i think they were. big kudos to them! ...they truly get my applause for holding back on designs in order to garner better suggestions from foreign experts, especially mine.

 

[Nice-Gook]

I hope some PAP bigwigs have noticed my efforts in defending them to the hilt and start the ball rolling towards towards some form of official recognition come National Day 2012.

My dedication to the cause of defending sound PAP policies and explaining these policies to the ignorant masses also deserves financial compensation in the form of a research grant to enable me to further improve the platforms for spreading the word.

You know your business best Sam.I can only speculate.That PAP had already done you a big favor by leaving your sex forum alone.All they need to do is classify it under undesirable porn material.And Starhub & Singtel would block the entire sammyboy.com regardless.You may have started this koitiam as some established sex sites do.To discuss all other matters than sex.But sg has a huge vacuum for political discussion .And I speculate you were caught in between.That is , not to upset PAP too much nor put a stop the traffic that such discussion churns.

 

[Nice-Gook]

The PAP has honed its policies over 5 decades based on an excellent understanding of the psyche of the people. It knows full well that in an Asian society, when someone labels a policy as "unfair", what they actually mean is "I want a slice of the pie too".

People have to learn the help themselves regardless of who is in power. I've lived through right wing govts, seen them booted out of office and replaced with socialist governments.

Did anything change on the ground?..not one bit. The poor remained poor. The rich remained rich. When the socialist governments raised top level taxes, the rich simply moved their assets out of reach of the taxman. In many cases, they also moved themselves out of the country and took up tax residency in Singapore where direct taxes are low.

The poor were given 20% more in welfare payouts under the socialist regime. However, for some strange reason, they were still poor after 9 years of "targeted assistance". The reasons for this may vary from individual to individual but the fact remained that the govt could not change the cause of their poverty and that was their inability to live within their means and do anything meaningful with their sorry lives.

In any competition, someone will always be last. You can hire the best coaches in the world for these losers but they'll still be last because we aren't all made the same.

The lasting legacy of the socialist government is a huge big hole in the country's reserves. The underclass they pledged to "lift out of the poverty trap" are still there in full force and they're still collecting their handout and expecting more. The rich are still enjoying their yachts, their expensive wines and their caviar.

If Singaporeans revolted tomorrow, took to the streets and threw out the PAP this coming Friday, sinkies would still be complaining about exactly the same issues 5 years on.

I'll accept the title of "Cynical Old Bastard" with pleasure.

I am amazed at the lack of your wisdom; at least not at your age.

You sound like a toddler who expects at the end of fairy tale to live happily ever after.Unfortunately real life is far more complex.Yes,in life somebody will always be last.Ever thought it could very well be your son or daughter whom you gave the best in life as a head starter?....even if yourself was the beacon of light that others followed?That's why monarchy based on heredity gave way to democracy...because no matter how much head start you may have in life there is no guarantee your second and third generation follows suit.Even LKY found to his dismay that a superlative mum and a superlative dad cannot breed even an above average offspring.

Why is this important you may ask.

Because it goes to the root of why a society must be helped again and again.Because by helping to uplift the society you are indirectly helping yourself.Yes,yes yes,self interest through public interest.You may be at the bottom of the totem pole today but if you live in a welfare society your children may rise to the top.Likewise your billions do not guarantee that your second and third generation are equally capable.So life goes on with its rotation.

The gist of the matter is a welfare society give everybody an opportunity.

 

[Checker]

Been said that to make valid comparisons, we must compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges. It's very nice that SG does well on many independent global measures of economic competitiveness, safety, education, health. Equal to first-world.But the other comparison to make is with itself. Things getting better and better? SG is very unique in geography, composition and history. Not always straightforward to interpret comparisons with others.

Most important question IMHO is are things in place so the future also gets better, stays as good (or at least does not crumble in the near or medium-term). What is needed to achieve this? Seems that political stability is critical. Seems political diversity is more stable. And this is still rather missing. SG's viability question is still a concern even at the highest level, unlike US, NZ, or even most of our neighbours. There also isn't much to crumble before it's gone.

 

[red amoeba]

Been said that to make valid comparisons, we must compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges. It's very nice that SG does well on many independent global measures of economic competitiveness, safety, education, health. Equal to first-world.But the other comparison to make is with itself. Things getting better and better? SG is very unique in geography, composition and history. Not always straightforward to interpret comparisons with others.

Most important question IMHO is are things in place so the future also gets better, stays as good (or at least does not crumble in the near or medium-term). What is needed to achieve this? Seems that political stability is critical. Seems political diversity is more stable. And this is still rather missing. SG's viability question is still a concern even at the highest level, unlike US, NZ, or even most of our neighbours. There also isn't much to crumble before it's gone.

we are constantly being benchmarked to international standards..hence it is fair and valid that I benchmark my leaders and infrastructure (pointly - SMRT) to first class standard and have first class expectations? Especially in the light that they are highest paid.

Political stability means policies are sound and accepted - it does not mean (as PAP like to script it - a PAP government). Put in other words, a 2 party parliment does not mean political instability.

 

[TracyTan866]

you just shot yourself in the foot in a debate. just like what you posted earlier, "you need to stay and live in the bay area long enough to speak credibly abt how the dems and pubs have affected american lives." pray tell. what makes you an expert of bart and the berryessa extension for you to make such an unsubstantiated and callous comparison?

I dont know berryessa extension well...that's why I asked you that question because you raised it as a comparison to Circle Line...is there a basis for the comparison?