inter-party unity versus intra-party discipline

[Thick Face Black Heart]

A digression from the insect-infested (GMS' own words) discussion about WP/NSP etc.

GMS being the brilliant 2nd class upper hons NUS economics graduate should damn well know why the EU is failing. Basically creating a monetary union without a fiscal union. And now those states with greater self discipline find themselves asking their electorate for permission to bail out states with lesser discipline.

Take a leaf out of that and apply to SG oppo politics. you can't have inter-party unity without first having common inter-party discipline. As it stands, the latter simply doesn't exist. Media management, personnel management, party image, are all done with greatly differing levels of competence in diff parties.

Furthermore, SDP has not reconciled its civil disobedience past with the present value system. NSP is a whale, absorbing amoeba and plankton from the depths of the political oceans without even chewing. And with the greatest respect for Chiam, he failed to renew SPP and now Ben Pwee & Co must figure out the road forward. RP is dead as long as KJ leads. The rest are irrelevant and will remain so permanently.

You want to bring everyone to a common platform and the level of cooperation and sacrifice that GMS has proposed, you're going the path of the EU. And we know how that ends.

 

[brocoli]

2 Party system is the new normal.

what inter-party unity are you talking about ???

Opp unity is a myth, see how GMS split the beans on how he and low try to out maneuver each other ?

2 Party system is a reality...

when you have 2 Party system. then we compare intra-party discipline of the 2 parties

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

TFBH,

Please don't anyhow comment on EU which is beyond your understanding if you don't really know what it is all about. EU failed economically because you can't have one common organization managing the monetary policy but lack the power to influence the individual countries' fiscal policies.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[brocoli]

TFBH,

Please don't anyhow comment on EU which is beyond your understanding if you don't really know what it is all about. EU failed economically because you can't have one common organization managing the monetary policy but lack the power to influence the individual countries' fiscal policies.

Goh Meng Seng

why you so haolian? ??

2nd class upper hons NUS economics big fark ???

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

TFBH,

Please don't anyhow comment on EU which is beyond your understanding if you don't really know what it is all about. EU failed economically because you can't have one common organization managing the monetary policy but lack the power to influence the individual countries' fiscal policies.

Goh Meng Seng

You seriously need to brush up on your English, which you so proudly declared to be good on eve of election night 2006.

The point is exactly what I have said.

Either rebut my analogy and just plain brush up on your comprehension! Goodness!

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

I have said that EU is failing because they attempted a monetary union without a fiscal union.

madcow Goh whose "england is very good hor" said it is beyond my understanding, and that "you can't have one common organization managing the monetary policy but lack the power to influence the individual countries' fiscal policies."

What is the fucking difference between MY point and madcow's point??

How did this madcow pass his PSLE?

Goh Meng Seng what school were you from?

 

[Perspective]

I have said that EU is failing because they attempted a monetary union without a fiscal union.

madcow Goh whose "england is very good hor" said it is beyond my understanding, and that "you can't have one common organization managing the monetary policy but lack the power to influence the individual countries' fiscal policies."

What is the fucking difference between MY point and madcow's point??

How did this madcow pass his PSLE?

Goh Meng Seng what school were you from?

It's nothing to do with tongue (language). It's even nothing to do with here *points to my head*. It's got a lot to do with here *points to my heart*.

The same vein that appears in the other threads.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

TFBH,

You may think there is no difference but there is a big difference here.

What do you mean by "fiscal union"? If there is fiscal union, it would already mean EU will become one country already. But the truth is, there is no need to have "fiscal union" to be successful for EU. You just need to have influence on fiscal policies on individual countries. When you have fiscal union, it would mean to have one size fit all fiscal policies for all countries, which actually may make things worse for EU. But to have certain influence on fiscal policies for individual countries to cater for different needs of each country, is a much better way.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

It's nothing to do with tongue (language). It's even nothing to do with here *points to my head*. It's got a lot to do with here *points to my heart*.

The same vein that appears in the other threads.

Well I think most readers can see clearly where GMS is heading.

Look at how he insists on twisting semantics and devising his own convoluted interpretation of my points and the word "union", without ever rebutting my actual analogy.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

TFBH,

You really qualify your nick perfectly.

Basically it means it is almost useless and impossible to have "fiscal union" and this is not the main reason for EU's failure. The failure lies in the inability of EU to exert influence on fiscal policies of individual countries. There is absolutely nothing semantic about this, pretty straight forward.... well, maybe not to you.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

I am still waiting for my political analogy to be rebutted.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

EU's failure is about controlling economic variables but in terms of political will and direction, they are pretty united.

Your analogy is totally out. In political alliance or collaboration, we do not need to control the finances (aka economic analogy) of each party but just to get the political direction coordinated. Thus, your irrelevance here. QED.

Goh Meng Seng

I am still waiting for my political analogy to be rebutted.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

EU's failure is about controlling economic variables but in terms of political will and direction, they are pretty united.

Your analogy is totally out. In political alliance or collaboration, we do not need to control the finances (aka economic analogy) of each party but just to get the political direction coordinated. Thus, your irrelevance here. QED.

Goh Meng Seng

You misread the analogy. I was comparing the differing fiscal policies of eurozone states to the differing levels of discipline in the various parties. Your ideas about the level of unity and cooperation that should exist will not work in real life because people are operating with different levels of focus, values and discipline.

The political unity of the EU counts for nothing if they find themselves lurching from crisis to crisis as a result of certain member states (PIIGS) not keeping their house in order. Same for opposition in SG. The unity that you are proposing will not be beneficial for the overall progress of the oppo if some parties don't keep their house in order.

 

[Perspective]

TFBH, it's approaching 26 Nov soon. Expect a hibernation as per 26 Oct.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

TFBH, it's approaching 26 Nov soon. Expect a hibernation as per 26 Oct.

That's right, his menses is coming soon. Then after a couple of weeks, he will be fertile and ready to rock again.

 

[brocoli]

EU's failure is about controlling economic variables but in terms of political will and direction, they are pretty united.

Your analogy is totally out. In political alliance or collaboration, we do not need to control the finances (aka economic analogy) of each party but just to get the political direction coordinated. Thus, your irrelevance here. QED.

Goh Meng Seng

I am goin to quote this as this statement is a classic example of how dumbass you are....


Thick Face Black Heart is just trying to say that any organisations trying to come together into an alliance must have some degree of similarity ...

he talk about differing level of fiscal discipline of the different country in the EMU (Economic and Monetary Union of the European Union)

the analogy is differing level of political discipline of the different parties in a political alliance

If WP join an alliance with other Opp, they will be like Germany, squandering its hard earned political capital to bail out political liabilities like NSP, SDP, SPP, SDA and RP which are like Spain, Italy, Greece, Ireland, Portugal

the only way forward is a 2 Party system, so Thick Face Black Heart, please dun stop giving exposure to non-existent entities who only appear during elections.....

if we have the third reich, what need for the EMU ?

 

[brocoli]

You misread the analogy. I was comparing the differing fiscal policies of eurozone states to the differing levels of discipline in the various parties. Your ideas about the level of unity and cooperation that should exist will not work in real life because people are operating with different levels of focus, values and discipline.

The political unity of the EU counts for nothing if they find themselves lurching from crisis to crisis as a result of certain member states (PIIGS) not keeping their house in order. Same for opposition in SG. The unity that you are proposing will not be beneficial for the overall progress of the oppo if some parties don't keep their house in order.

you already reply him..... dun i feel like a farking parrot?

 

[Ramseth]

Monetary union can be formed, just do it once and for all and bear the costs at one go without political reservation. For example, Singapore and Brunei dollars on par, the West and East Germany reunification putting the old Deutschemark on both sides on par. Brunei has no political reservation even though it's not politically united with Singapore. It also has the financial power to back up its peg to Singapore dollar and doesn't mind letting MAS manage the exchange rate. Euro problem is political reservation and different fiscal policies exercised or abused by the different countries in the Eurozone, taking it as free extra purchasing power. The British were damn smart to have stayed out of it. Now Germany and France are screwed again. They have to back up those extras as leaders of Euro.