Time for Reconciliation

[LeMans2011]

I will stop blaming Opposition supporters for being disunited. I hope people will stop blaming TJS for causing TCB to lose as well, as TCB is a PAP man all along and there is no reason for opposition members to support a PAP man.
Looking at how things unfolded... it seems obvious TT would have won irregardless.

 

[goldenmonkey]

Blaming anyone else for one's defeat is lowest of the low. TCB gave a good fight, and it all goes to show that TT and the effect of PAP endorsement has declined to a shocking level. It really does not matter if it were LKY who had stood instead.

TJS took home a higher profile in his next GE. It also shows that his style and passion are not enough to win (here or in the GE) now, they are chipping away at the shiny armour of the ruling party.


I do not have much to say about TKL, there isnt so much to say anyway, is there?

 

[cass888]

Haha ... Tan Jee Say is not an opposition man. He carried out the biggest sabotage campaign in Singapore. He is going to be CEO GIC/MAS/Temasek, Bintang Temasek, Duke of Orchard Road, Marquess of Holland Bukit Timah, Earl of Clementi, Vicount of Tampines and Baron of Tampines (heehee) and Baronet.

I will stop blaming Opposition supporters for being disunited. I hope people will stop blaming TJS for causing TCB to lose as well, as TCB is a PAP man all along and there is no reason for opposition members to support a PAP man.
Looking at how things unfolded... it seems obvious TT would have won irregardless.

 

[CPT (NS) BRANDON]

I will stop blaming Opposition supporters for being disunited. I hope people will stop blaming TJS for causing TCB to lose as well, as TCB is a PAP man all along and there is no reason for opposition members to support a PAP man.
Looking at how things unfolded... it seems obvious TT would have won irregardless.

Are you fucking stupid?

TCB gave the PAP elite such a scare that they deliberately issued COEs to TJS and TKL just to split the votes. How is it that you have been fucked and still don't know? That is the pinnacle of stupidity.

The ONLY way for there to be ANY change in Singapore is if there is a split in the PAP. With TCB stepping out, this was the first sign of hope that this could happen. Had TCB won, more PAP MPs would have built up the guts to defect to the opposition if they felt that something was wrong. Do you think that PAP MPs are not human beings and do not have their own views? I can tell you that many PAP people cannot stomach some of the things that the PAP leadership does. However, they are scared to death of being pariahs, hence their silence. Of course, this is their own fucking fault and reflects badly on them too.

But a TCB victory would have inspired them to stand up for their morals and principles. That would have been the catalyst for the splitting of the PAP, which is the ONLY way that Singapore will ever see a change to the current disgusting system of cronyism, nepotism, patron-clientalism and oligarchy perpetuated by a small band of elites (who are linked by social ties and family ties, NOT party affiliation).

I am not even talking about the PAP. The PAP is just a tool, a vehicle being used by the elite oligarchs to further their own grasp on power. The majority of the PAP members (including MPs and even ministers) are on the outer periphery of this inner circle, and they don't even know that they are being used.

There MUST be a split in the PAP for change to come to Singapore. TCB will be too old in 6 years time. The next hope is GY.

 

[steffychun]

TCB was never a PAP man in this election.

TJS was clearly a Chee Soon Juan clone.

 

[LeMans2011]

But a TCB victory would have inspired them to stand up for their morals and principles. That would have been the catalyst for the splitting of the PAP, which is the ONLY way that Singapore will ever see a change to the current disgusting system of cronyism, nepotism, patron-clientalism and oligarchy perpetuated by a small band of elites (who are linked by social ties and family ties, NOT party affiliation).There MUST be a split in the PAP for change to come to Singapore. TCB will be too old in 6 years time. The next hope is GY.

TT wins because of fucking moron like you... you should go to sleep instead of hanging around showing your stupidity.
It is dumb idealist like you who donated the opposition votes to PAP that handed TT his victory. I am not even going to argue about how little TCB WILL do as a president since the election is over. But your stupidity is confirmed with 2 facts:
1) "TCB victory would have inspired them to stand up for their morals and principles" fuck you idiot, name me one PAP member that has moral and principles
2) "The next hope is GY" fuck you twice dumb fuck... GY is PAP to the core and represent the pinnacle of PAP arrogance and you are looking to him for a change in Singapore :oIo:

 

[CPT (NS) BRANDON]

TCB was never a PAP man in this election.

Precisely my point.

Blame the voters for allowing themselves to be confused.

The enemy is not the PAP per se. The enemy is actually the elite inner circle / old boys' club comprising the Lees, Kwas, Tans, Hos and their scions and relatives. They function like an oligarchy and the PAP is merely a tool to further their own personal ambitions. The PAP is also a convenient shield for them, as it allows them to assume formlessness while the party functions as a lightning rod for the hatred of the people.

There are good people within the PAP too. Tan Cheng Bock being one (and not the only one) of them.

As for TJS, I don't think he was a PAP plant or a Chee Soon Juan clone, but he was definitely very naive. He sensed the trap and yet he fell straight into it, thanks to his bleeding heart liberal tendencies and lack of tactical nous. As a result, he may now become one of the most hated men in Singapore, and I sincerely feel sorry for him because he isn't a bad guy.

 

[wwabbit]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Well done.

Precisely my point.

Blame the voters for allowing themselves to be confused.

The enemy is not the PAP per se. The enemy is actually the elite inner circle / old boys' club comprising the Lees, Kwas, Tans, Hos and their scions and relatives. They function like an oligarchy and the PAP is merely a tool to further their own personal ambitions. The PAP is also a convenient shield for them, as it allows them to assume formlessness while the party functions as a lightning rod for the hatred of the people.

There are good people within the PAP too. Tan Cheng Bock being one (and not the only one) of them.

As for TJS, I don't think he was a PAP plant or a Chee Soon Juan clone, but he was definitely very naive. He sensed the trap and yet he fell straight into it, thanks to his bleeding heart liberal tendencies and lack of tactical nous. As a result, he may now become one of the most hated men in Singapore, and I sincerely feel sorry for him because he isn't a bad guy.

 

[myfoot123]

With all the endorsements and pap-backed. Is that all Tony Tan can get? How pathetic.

 

[CPT (NS) BRANDON]

TT wins because of fucking moron like you... you should go to sleep instead of hanging around showing your stupidity. TCB is a PAP man. Period.

Yes he is a PAP man. But he is not one of the inner circle oligarchs linked to the Lees, Hos, Kwas and Tans. There is a big difference between PAP men like TCB and PAP men like WKS/TT/TCH.

Go and read up on TCB's history and tell me, on balance, if you still think he was a yes-man whose main aim was to further the interests of the oligarchs and elites. If you still think so, I don't know what to say.

Also, if you think the PAP wouldn't have minded a TCB victory, tell me why they awarded COEs to Tan Jee Say and Tan Kin Lian, both of whom did not strictly meet the criteria? Why even roll out Tony Tan to contest against TCB in the first place? The rulers of this country DID NOT want TCB as President, period.

And you are going to offer me the lame "but the PEC decided to grant the COEs to TJS and TKL, who are you to disagree" retort, then my reply is that this is a classic example of falling into the trap of being awestruck by validation from the establishment that one forgets who the enemy is.

Imagine if Sun Yat Sen could have been confused or thrown off guard by the award of some imperial noble titles by the Qing Dynasty?

 

[HedgeTrader]

TT is PAP clone 1.
TCB is PAP clone 2.
TJS is SDP clone.
TKL is clueless.

 

[scroobal]

I think you are taking the easy out.

The issue was not to have TT to get office. There were 2 other contenders and TJS entry was going to split votes. I am sure a schoolboy would have told you that. Harbans Singh was the same. In the Anson By elections, Chiam graciously stood aside. Harbans did not. Luckily Harbans was discredited so he received about 300 votes. Chiam move was recognised and rewarded.

Nothing to reconcile. It was too close to forget.

I will stop blaming Opposition supporters for being disunited. I hope people will stop blaming TJS for causing TCB to lose as well, as TCB is a PAP man all along and there is no reason for opposition members to support a PAP man.
Looking at how things unfolded... it seems obvious TT would have won irregardless.

 

[Seee3]

His past records give me the impression that financial stability may be his main motivation. He has left the system, believing that he can. After so many years of trying, he is heading nowhere. There may be a sense of desperation. Age is also catching up and politics could be his last opportunity. Unfortunately, I think he screwed it up big time this time.

....As for TJS, I don't think he was a PAP plant or a Chee Soon Juan clone, but he was definitely very naive. He sensed the trap and yet he fell straight into it, thanks to his bleeding heart liberal tendencies and lack of tactical nous. As a result, he may now become one of the most hated men in Singapore, and I sincerely feel sorry for him because he isn't a bad guy.

 

[CPT (NS) BRANDON]

I think you are taking the easy out.

The issue was not to have TT to get office. There were 2 other contenders and TJS entry was going to split votes. I am sure a schoolboy would have told you that. Harbans Singh was the same. In the Anson By elections, Chiam graciously stood aside. Harbans did not. Luckily Harbans was discredited so he received about 300 votes. Chiam move was recognised and rewarded.

Nothing to reconcile. It was too close to forget.

Scroobal, unfortunately a large number of people do NOT understand why it was so imperative to deny TT the office of President.

It wasn't so much whether he was a PAP man or not a PAP man. PAP is not a factor in this. I couldn't give a rat's ass about the PAP. What matters here is that TT represents not only the PAP but also the elite inner circle of oligarchs who rule the country through their liberal application of cronyism, nepotism and inner-circle patron-client relationships. The PAP has been used by this group of oligarchs as their tool. There have been other tools, but the PAP is the most obvious one because it functions as a shield to allow them to assume formlessness behind the veneer of a political party.

What is apparent is that more than 60% of the nation opposes this group of oligarchs and absolutely detests what they stand for.

However, despite this, they still control every single institution in the country, including 93% of the seats in Parliament (because even if PAP MPs dissent, none will dare to rebel)

A TCB presidency would have taken away one of these institutions, and cast Parliament into turmoil because more PAP MPs would have the guts to stand up to the elite oligarchs - thanks to the inspiration provided by TCB.

The tide is in favour of change, but unfortunately too many idiots are still unsure or confused about WHAT they need to change and HOW to effect it.

 

[CPT (NS) BRANDON]

His past records give me the impression that financial stability may be his main motivation. He has left the system, believing that he can. After so many years of trying, he is heading nowhere. There may be a sense of desperation. Age is also catching up and politics could be his last opportunity. Unfortunately, I think he screwed it up big time this time.

TJS did not contest for the sake of money.

He lives in a large house in Frankel Avenue and he has alot of money. I mean, he may not have $100 million but he is definitely comfortable.

He is a bleeding heart liberal with alot of principles and ideals, but unfortunately he lacks the political nous required to outmanouvre the cunning, insidious forces at work behind the highest echelons of leadership in this country.

 

[LeMans2011]

I think you are taking the easy out.

The issue was not to have TT to get office. There were 2 other contenders and TJS entry was going to split votes. I am sure a schoolboy would have told you that. Harbans Singh was the same. In the Anson By elections, Chiam graciously stood aside. Harbans did not. Luckily Harbans was discredited so he received about 300 votes. Chiam move was recognised and rewarded.

Nothing to reconcile. It was too close to forget.

I am pissed at people putting the blame on TJS for TCB's loss as this is absolute nonsense. Worst are those who started smearing him even as the election draws to a close. There are many "if"s:

1) If TKL withdrew and his votes went to TCB, TCB would have won
2) If TJS withdrew and his votes went to TCB, TCB would have won
3) If TCB withdrew and his votes went to TJS, TJS would have won
4) If TKL withdrew and his votes went to TJS + DAFT voters did not switch support from TJS to TCB, then TJS would have won
5) If only TT and TCB runs for the presidency, then you would have LHL coming out to make a few more apologies and DAFT votes would have chosen TT anyway
6) If only TT and TCB is in the picture, what makes you think PAP will not send in another chap to split the votes?

NO matter how it unfolds, TT would have been assured of his 30+% hardcore PAP votes.

Damn those of you who blame TJS for being "used unknowingly". He did stand a fair chance of winning and it is right for him to step into the contest.

TJS DID NOT FAIL YOU VOTERS. YOU FAILED HIM FOR SWITCHING ALLEGIANCE TO PAP MAN TCB.

 

[Seee3]

TJS did not contest for the sake of money.

He lives in a large house in Frankel Avenue and he has alot of money. ....

Sorry, I used the term "financial stability" wrongly as it indirectly implies financial difficulty. A few guys I know are just crazy over achievements in life. Sadly, their only measure for success is money - not that they are lacking. It is just a crave. Somehow, I see the way that TJS talk and behaviour fit nicely into one of those moulds.

 

[Nik1971]

I will stop blaming Opposition supporters for being disunited. I hope people will stop blaming TJS for causing TCB to lose as well, as TCB is a PAP man all along and there is no reason for opposition members to support a PAP man.
Looking at how things unfolded... it seems obvious TT would have won irregardless.

Booo! TJS command of english still bad...hahahhahahha. NS was brught down to earth by tjs. Nicole, what have you done?

 

[mojito]

The ONLY way for there to be ANY change in Singapore is if there is a split in the PAP. With TCB stepping out, this was the first sign of hope that this could happen. Had TCB won, more PAP MPs would have built up the guts to defect to the opposition if they felt that something was wrong. Do you think that PAP MPs are not human beings and do not have their own views? I can tell you that many PAP people cannot stomach some of the things that the PAP leadership does. However, they are scared to death of being pariahs, hence their silence. Of course, this is their own fucking fault and reflects badly on them too.

But a TCB victory would have inspired them to stand up for their morals and principles. That would have been the catalyst for the splitting of the PAP, which is the ONLY way that Singapore will ever see a change to the current disgusting system of cronyism, nepotism, patron-clientalism and oligarchy perpetuated by a small band of elites (who are linked by social ties and family ties, NOT party affiliation).

I am not even talking about the PAP. The PAP is just a tool, a vehicle being used by the elite oligarchs to further their own grasp on power. The majority of the PAP members (including MPs and even ministers) are on the outer periphery of this inner circle, and they don't even know that they are being used.

There MUST be a split in the PAP for change to come to Singapore. TCB will be too old in 6 years time. The next hope is GY.

I feel a tinge of sadness when I say this in the backdrop of another victory handed to the PAP elites. Nevertheless I shall persist.

I think PAP periphery now knows they are being used. I am just unsure that anyone in the current batch would have stood out to question the system without risk of being choked financially. Have you not realised the people standing against the establishment are the ones who have nothing to lose in the first place?

 

[CPT (NS) BRANDON]

I feel a tinge of sadness when I say this in the backdrop of another victory handed to the PAP elites. Nevertheless I shall persist.

I think PAP periphery now knows they are being used. I am just unsure that anyone in the current batch would have stood out to question the system without risk of being choked financially. Have you not realised the people standing against the establishment are the ones who have nothing to lose in the first place?

Previously, there were people like Tan Cheng Bock, Tan Soo Khoon and Ong Teng Cheong. They spoke up without fear, according to their conscience.

In the current batch, there is Denise Phua and Lily Neo. You also cannot discount the possibility that some of them are just keeping silent about their true views. I believe that Tan Chuan Jin may be one of those who feels that the PAP needs to change its ways and if he were PM he would discontinue alot of the disgusting practices that we see today. Time will tell as he is still new. But I feel he is someone with political ideals, not just a technocrat, unlike his good friend and former SAF colleague who is a pure policy-oriented technocrat.

However, alot of the newbies are just bureaucrats and not really politicians with principles and stands on issues.