Well done PAP! Look at what the casinos have done to our society...

[halsey02]

I understand perfectly where you're coming from but gambling is but one the many vices available to mankind. For those who choose a path of self destruction, alcohol has the same ability to destroy families. So too does prostitution and tobacco.

Conservative Islamic states use the same argument to impose the wearing of the burqa on the entire female population. Saudi Arabia forbids women from driving on the premise that giving them mobility creates opportunities for illicit behaviour.

Where do you draw the line?

There are two sided to the coin of almost every entity that mankind has ever created. Cars have transformed lives but cause more carnage since they arrived on the scene than the two world wars put together.

My motto has always been one of personal choice and personal responsibility. No govt should play a parenting role. Laws are created for those that cross the line and perform acts that bring harm to others. However, what they do to themselves is their own business.

RIGHT! I agree with you

 

[halsey02]

Many defendants say the 14 yo was a willing participant.

There you go... Free Will.

They were acting in accordance with their free will, but the 14 year old got away with the excercise of the free will, for the law says it is not your free will to have relationship with a minor. We have to thank our woman charter for protecting the women's FREE WILL.

 

[Rogue Trader]

They were acting in accordance with their free will, but the 14 year old got away with the excercise of the free will, for the law says it is not your free will to have relationship with a minor. We have to thank our woman charter for protecting the women's FREE WILL.

Laws are usually chartered based on what is acceptable and fair in a society. They have to go through a rigorous process of real debate to determine whether it is for "the greater good" of society. My point is the whole Casino decision process was a poorly disguised scam.

The promised increase in GDP, employment and tourist traffic only benefits the landlords, casino operators, foreigners and gahmen coffers in the form of increased spending. How many real Singaporeans have benefitted from the 2 casinos?

On the flip side, let's not talk about benefits but the costs now. What is the social cost of having 2 casinos in the country? These social costs are borne by ordinary Singaporeans... in terms of wiped out life savings, broken homes and crimes?

How much state casino revenue goes back to the society it is harming... in term of public education programs and control services. Is there a study being done to monitor the effects of casinos? Look...the States Times article above even reported it takes 2 weeks for the family exclusion order to be effected. WTF?

PAP has got Singaporeans' blood on their hands.

 

[Leongsam]

On the flip side, let's not talk about benefits but the costs now. What is the social cost of having 2 casinos in the country? These social costs are borne by ordinary Singaporeans... in terms of wiped out life savings, broken homes and crimes?

This is what LKY said at the height of his reign:

“I am often accused of interfering in the private lives of citizens. Yes, if I did not, had I not done that, we wouldn’t be here today. And I say without the slightest remorse, that we wouldn’t be here, we would not have made economic progress, if we had not intervened on very personal matters – who your neighbour is, how you live, the noise you make, how you spit, or what language you use. We decide what is right. Never mind what the people think.”
- Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew, Straits Times, 20 April 1987

The reaction was hardly surprising. The coffee shop talk at the time [in the real world of course] was "who the hell do you think you are to run my life for me?".

Singapore has come along way since then. The next generation of leaders realised that Singapore couldn't become an international city if it was run like an army camp so a period of liberalization came to pass. Street parties were organised along Orchard Road, lounges were allowed to open till the wee hours, KTV was legalised... yup you heard right.. singing without a permit was illegal in the good old days. LKY maintained an environment where there was not that much to do so we spent our time studying, working hard, watching PAP TV for leisure and trying to make babies with very little porn available to show us how to do it right.

Singaporeans can't have their cake and eat it too. They have to collectively decide whether they want a nanny state or a laissez faire environment and they have to make the decision bearing in mind the fact that there is significant competition for the tourist dollar in this day and age of cheap and easy travel.

The industrial era has come and gone as far as Singapore is concerned. Never again will there be multinationals like Seagate coming along and providing 15,000 well paying jobs directly and many times that number indirectly. It's not as if Singapore is spoiled for choice when it comes to earning foreign exchange. If it's not casinos, what else is there? Biotech? IT? Education Hub? Medical Hub? If I need a medical procedure done today, I'll go to Thailand If I had millions to invest in Biotech, Singapore certainly wouldn't be on my shopping list. However, if I wanted to gamble, have a good time, entertain business associates, Singapore would be right up there along with Macau and LV simply because it has done an excellent job in transforming Marina Bay into a hip place that everyone's talking about.

If it placates you somewhat if I call the casinos a necessary evil, then I'll be happy to oblige. However, to NOT have them would be a lot worse.

 

[singveld]

there are many ways to lose money, one example is internet poker.

 

[palden]

If what you say is true why is the PAP trying to censor Playboy, Penthouse, etc

Same excuse can be applied to having casinos
However reading Playboy widens your outlook but cannot say the same for the casinos

Simple. If they allow Playboy and Penthouse, geylang no business. What will happen to the FTs then?

 

[Rogue Trader]

If it placates you somewhat if I call the casinos a necessary evil, then I'll be happy to oblige. However, to NOT have them would be a lot worse.

Ha. I will not go so far to call these 2 casinos "necessities" to our economic well being. Like I wrote in my earlier post, the social costs of having casinos had seemingly not been been looked at when the bill was passed in 2004. If they had been, then they weren't brought up in parliament and debated about.

But that ship has already sailed.

Now these social costs borne by citizens have to be mitigated by the revenues the casino generated. That is only fair.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Humans have the capability of exercising something known as "free will". In case you don't understand what that means in this context, it's the ability to choose whether or not to partake in the activities that are available in the vicinity.

Each and every Singaporean has the ability to make a personal choice not to step into any of the casinos. If they choose to gamble, they have made their own personal decision and they have to face the consequences of their actions.

Nobody else is to blame for the decisions they make for themselves.

I think you forgot you are talking about degenerate dunces here. Look at these idiots, they gamble away their fortune at a Casino and they blame the government. The only things they are good at are gambling, whoring, beating their wives, chugging herbal tea and cooking char kawy teow. The last one is because of their job.

 

[Musashi Miyamoto]

Local Trash :p

 

[ginfreely]

So proximity and accessibility have nothing to do with it?

Proximity and accessibility of casinos are definitely important causes of gambling problem. Look at what selling of opium did to China is enough as proof. Self control is often over estimated by one and before long it has become addiction and huge debts incurred.

 

[Leongsam]

Ha. I will not go so far to call these 2 casinos "necessities" to our economic well being.

Now these social costs borne by citizens have to be mitigated by the revenues the casino generated. That is only fair.

It's easy to criticize from the sidelines. As a city state with no hinterland and no natural resources and no spirit of enterprise, what sort of model do YOU suggest that Singapore should adopt in order to provide jobs and opportunities for its 3 million citizens?

NZ has it's sheep, it's dairy, it's yacht building industry and it's natural beauty to fall back on. OZ is booming because it has vast quantities of minerals that happen to be in great demand. What does Singapore have besides a govt that is desperately trying to keep the country going?

The social costs of gambling can easily be resolved simply by passing a law that bans all Singaporeans from the casino. That's what Malaysia did with the Genting. It barred muslims from entering in to make the casino politically palatable. Is that what you would like to see? If it is, it's not too late. The casinos have already been built but the rules regarding who are allowed in can be changed overnight.

 

[youtalkcock]

Hello Police, every few days got gruesome murder! Time to start patrolling on foot and install CCTV everywhere!

For the Police of which country?

 

[eatshitndie]

abuse, addiction, aberration, attitude and asininity.

all five words of any arsehole who acts like an ass. in literally terms, asinine has its latin roots in asininus, which refers to a donkey or ass for obstinacy and stupidity.

access and accessibility are not direct contributors to such aberrated behavior. they are facilitators, just like allowing an adult arsehole access to the internet will not prevent nor stop the ass from acting like an adolescent with an attitude. access is not the issue. abusing the privilege and benefit is. so is addiction. addiction that results in loss of attitude for work, attitude for good relationships, loss of money, job, business and loss of lives and limbs is worse than abuse. it actually affects someone, beside the arsehole eating itself up inside. imagine your rectum gnawing at your intestines, your organs, muscles, bones, brains and finally your memory and existence. and all you are left with is your asinine aberrated abused arsehole with an attitude.

don't be an addictive loser anywhere in anything including a casino, ktv lounge, massage parlor, peepshow; and don't be an abusive arsehole on the internet. it's the same freakish aberration, just that the damage is slightly different in acuteness and awfulness.

 

[johnny333]

Simple. If they allow Playboy and Penthouse, geylang no business. What will happen to the FTs then?

Magazines like Playboy & Penthouse are complementary & not substitutes to going to Places like Geylang .

If you get steamed reading those magazine & can afford to go to Geylang, and there's no fear of arrest, or AIDS, wouldn't you be tempted to visit Geylang

 

[Rogue Trader]

It's easy to criticize from the sidelines. As a city state with no hinterland and no natural resources and no spirit of enterprise, what sort of model do YOU suggest that Singapore should adopt in order to provide jobs and opportunities for its 3 million citizens?

NZ has it's sheep, it's dairy, it's yacht building industry and it's natural beauty to fall back on. OZ is booming because it has vast quantities of minerals that happen to be in great demand.

Why do you keep insisting the country's economy will fail without casinos? Yes, we have no natural resources but that has deterred other small nations from thriving. This country has it's geographical limitations. But it also has its strengths. I don't want to repeat what had been discussed here: http://www.singsupplies.com/showthr...s-Government-has-lost-way&p=704008#post704008

What does Singapore have besides a govt that is desperately trying to keep the country going?

Any idiot with a few billion bucks can start a business that earns 1 billion gross revenue but incurs 999 million in costs. That's not very bright.

The social costs of gambling can easily be resolved simply by passing a law that bans all Singaporeans from the casino. That's what Malaysia did with the Genting. It barred muslims from entering in to make the casino politically palatable. Is that what you would like to see? If it is, it's not too late. The casinos have already been built but the rules regarding who are allowed in can be changed overnight.

Yeah sure! Afterall, not so long ago we were told how to live, the noise to make, how to spit, or what language to use.

Why not impose a blanket ban all singaporeans? Let me guess... it is because reportedly 50% of the gaming revenue came from singaporeans last year?

 

[ginfreely]

For the Police of which country?

Haha it is for the country that has allowed ridiculous number of third world immigrants within few years and now seeing more & more crime of all sorts. The police should do something drastic now and not wait till the situation further worsen and by then there will be hues & cries from citizens for excessive crime. Just like the hues and cries now for insufficient Hdb, Mrt, jobs, and schooling places for citizens.

 

[ballsathome]

Haha it is for the country that has allowed ridiculous number of third world immigrants within few years and now seeing more & more crime of all sorts. The police should do something drastic now and not wait till the situation further worsen and by then there will be hues & cries from citizens for excessive crime. Just like the hues and cries now for insufficient Hdb, Mrt, jobs, and schooling places for citizens.

Thank you for your reply.

 

[ginfreely]

It's easy to criticize from the sidelines. As a city state with no hinterland and no natural resources and no spirit of enterprise, what sort of model do YOU suggest that Singapore should adopt in order to provide jobs and opportunities for its 3 million citizens?

NZ has it's sheep, it's dairy, it's yacht building industry and it's natural beauty to fall back on. OZ is booming because it has vast quantities of minerals that happen to be in great demand. What does Singapore have besides a govt that is desperately trying to keep the country going?

The social costs of gambling can easily be resolved simply by passing a law that bans all Singaporeans from the casino. That's what Malaysia did with the Genting. It barred muslims from entering in to make the casino politically palatable. Is that what you would like to see? If it is, it's not too late. The casinos have already been built but the rules regarding who are allowed in can be changed overnight.

Yeah it is a great idea to ban all Singaporeans from the casino!

I think cannot say that just because anyone can't come up with better idea, the person can't object casino. So when customer patronise a restaurant, the customer can't comment whether the food is bad unless he can cook better than the chef?

It is a matter of expectation. When one ask for high salary, got to deliver job that is worth the high salary paid. Having casinos and mass importing people to drive up GDP are ideas with short term benefits only and massive social costs in the long term and definitely do not meet the expectation and not worth the salary paid.

 

[myfoot123]

Shit Times called this PM material. Where is talent in Singapore if he is considered talented (by PAP definition). Will Wee Cho Yaw or Ong Beng Seng listen to this kind of crap and look him up as a leader?

 

[Sperminator]

I have a proposal to this social problem.

In South Korea, the Government ban South Koreans from entering Casinos.

I think it may be a good idea to Ban Singaporeans and Permanent Residents as well to enter Casinos in Singapore. No arguments no negotiations. Since there are so many people who cannot control themselves. The greatest Sin is Gambling... many tycoons lost their millions, sometimes billions. Gambling is an addiction.

Besides, Singaporeans already got 4D, Toto, Sweepstakes, Race Course, Football, nothing to complain about.

The problem about Casinos is that it is designed in a way that you cannot tell is it day or night, and there is free flow of food, beverages, entertainment, designed to let you sucked into the atmosphere.

More and more families will breakup because of debts from gambling... If this problem is not solved swiftly, the rate of crime will increase in Singapore.

Another proposal is that, the Government should consider getting a social problem ordnance levee from Casino in the tune of SGD 100 Million or more, to be supplied back to Singapore's social problem caused by the Casinos.

And most important of all, don't go to Marina Sands Casino and Sentosa Genting Casino, why go and waste your hard earned money? The odds of winning in a Casino is 10% per attempt... if you stay there long enough, and you expose yourself in playing the games, the odds of winning becomes 1% or less...

Or if you decide to become a gambler, I recommend learning Black Jack, as the odds of winning per attempt is 40%, and if you get yourself educated in basic strategy of Black Jack, the odds becomes 47%, and plus if you learn how to do Card Counting (in your head, which is not illegal, as nobody can know what you are counting in your head), the odds go beyond 51%, and you beat the house... but that requires disciplined training of your mind, and you got to see how many decks the Black Jack table is using... normally should be 6 decks... but I will not be surprised in Singapore they use 8 decks because of the super kiasu culture.

My proposal to all readers, DO NOT GAMBLE.