Opposition and leadership after GE

[IR123]

Anyone who comes in wants to win. They see it from their own angles that they will win. Anyone who thinks these people came in not to win but for (what?) is a joke. And that is why the power struggle that happens in parties.

for the matter, across parties too

 

[Perspective]

Anyway since my thread is still pushed up (for some, for the wrong reasons), allow me to continue on to sustain this interest.

Tan Jee Say was quoted to have said that CSJ has "changed" and has become "mellow". Will those who joined earlier during the time CSJ's name dominated SDP and his CD plans were the dish of the day feel chagrin or shortchanged, or accept that is this the reality and CD would be a thing of the past?

The "team of individuals, liberal freedom" approach has caused NSP to be unable to secure a single seat or NCMP as there is no centralised body and each could go for their preference. As a result theirs was a strong against strong, weak against weak configuration. Ex-RP guys were quoted to have refused to team up with existing NSP teams.

If not managed well, the rift will widen. How do we think such a situation can be mended?

 

[IR123]

Anyone who thinks these people came in not to win but for (what?) is a joke.

Through the various viewpoints expressed, I believe some think these people come in to serve, to be servant leaders of Singaporeans, to write the wrongs and rewrite the songs.

Doubt they see it as a joking matter.

 

[Perspective]

for the matter, across parties too

Of course. Never denied that.

 

[IR123]

sorry to butt in on your earlier post and thus obscuring it

 

[IR123]

Of course. Never denied that.

never said you did

 

[IR123]

If not managed well, the rift will widen. How do we think such a situation can be mended?

Through evolution. If it widens, let it widen. At times it is better to let new parties emerge and let the old parties go into history where they belong. However if you attempt to mend it, then you need to have the influence across parties. So far there is no such party with such influence. Thus attempts to political reengineer the situation will only succeed despite the failure.

Thus my opinion is to let it be and watch it evolve.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Dear Perspective,

It is really a waste of your talent when you are not writing drama scripts for Mediacorps! However, you would need to sharpen up in choosing the right topic and the right targets to write about.

People come people go. That's the fact of life, even for WP. Eric Tan's saga has more powerful implications than anything else and the rift will actually be stronger within WP than any other parties.

For other smaller parties without gaining anything, there is nothing to fight each other for, really. I mean, who will bother to fight for nothing? But WP is totally different. The fight has begun in WP and Eric Tan is the first casualty, definitely not going to be the last.

Thus I still think you have a queer mind. The main focus and all eyes are looking at WP right now. More people within WP will feel insecure and with Eric Tan's betrayal comment; these people will be afraid that they would be the next one being betrayed. Especially so for those senior candidates. The reasoning given for not choosing Eric Tan would make these senior candidates worried. i.e. Old people step aside! Well, just take a good look at the new WP CEC line up. See any problems there?

A tight lid kettle will eventually blow up while a liberal approach would be more resistant to pressure. It is a simple theory but it seems that you didn't get it at all.

But if your purpose here is to distract people away from the potential woes of WP here, you barely pass the mark, really.

Goh Meng Seng

Tan Jee Say was quoted to have said that CSJ has "changed" and has become "mellow". Will those who joined earlier during the time CSJ's name dominated SDP and his CD plans were the dish of the day feel chagrin or shortchanged, or accept that is this the reality and CD would be a thing of the past?

The "team of individuals, liberal freedom" approach has caused NSP to be unable to secure a single seat or NCMP as there is no centralised body and each could go for their preference. As a result theirs was a strong against strong, weak against weak configuration. Ex-RP guys were quoted to have refused to team up with existing NSP teams.

If not managed well, the rift will widen. How do we think such a situation can be mended?

 

[Perspective]

Dear Perspective,

It is really a waste of your talent when you are not writing drama scripts for Mediacorps! However, you would need to sharpen up in choosing the right topic and the right targets to write about.

People come people go. That's the fact of life, even for WP. Eric Tan's saga has more powerful implications than anything else and the rift will actually be stronger within WP than any other parties.

For other smaller parties without gaining anything, there is nothing to fight each other for, really. I mean, who will bother to fight for nothing? But WP is totally different. The fight has begun in WP and Eric Tan is the first casualty, definitely not going to be the last.

Thus I still think you have a queer mind. The main focus and all eyes are looking at WP right now. More people within WP will feel insecure and with Eric Tan's betrayal comment; these people will be afraid that they would be the next one being betrayed. Especially so for those senior candidates. The reasoning given for not choosing Eric Tan would make these senior candidates worried. i.e. Old people step aside! Well, just take a good look at the new WP CEC line up. See any problems there?

A tight lid kettle will eventually blow up while a liberal approach would be more resistant to pressure. It is a simple theory but it seems that you didn't get it at all.

But if your purpose here is to distract people away from the potential woes of WP here, you barely pass the mark, really.

Goh Meng Seng

You don't think what I know comes from reliable sources? I was trying to put it as a conjecture and who wants to blow it is welcome. There is no need for people to avoid me because I can always get these.

Eric Tan's departure, I had already commented. There is another thread. Probably you have not returned but if you are late, that's your problem.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Dear Perspective,

How reliable is your source? As reliable as you say it, isn't it? I think you would have MOST RELIABLE source from WP as compared to other opposition parties, isn't it? Thus I think if you are commenting about WP's inside dealings, that would be more appropriate and believable.

Well, as I have said, this thread is entitled "Opposition and Leadership After GE". Eric Tan's departure is only the seeding. There will be more interesting things about WP leadership change to talk about, especially from you since you would have MOST reliable internal sources. And true enough, the recent changes in WP leadership would need your reliable dissection.

Of course, talking about reliability, don't you think I am more reliable than you in talking about NSP internal affairs?

Goh Meng Seng

You don't think what I know comes from reliable sources? I was trying to put it as a conjecture and who wants to blow it is welcome. There is no need for people to avoid me because I can always get these.

Eric Tan's departure, I had already commented. There is another thread. Probably you have not returned but if you are late, that's your problem.

 

[Perspective]

Dear Perspective,

How reliable is your source? As reliable as you say it, isn't it? I think you would have MOST RELIABLE source from WP as compared to other opposition parties, isn't it? Thus I think if you are commenting about WP's inside dealings, that would be more appropriate and believable.

Well, as I have said, this thread is entitled "Opposition and Leadership After GE". Eric Tan's departure is only the seeding. There will be more interesting things about WP leadership change to talk about, especially from you since you would have MOST reliable internal sources. And true enough, the recent changes in WP leadership would need your reliable dissection.

Of course, talking about reliability, don't you think I am more reliable than you in talking about NSP internal affairs?

Goh Meng Seng

Seems that you are more reliable when it comes to WP and also more reliable when it comes to NSP. You are deeper in both.

NSP CEC, candidate reliable enough?

 

[Perspective]

Talking about changes in WP's leadership. The story some would like to hear is that Chen, Yee and Pritam muscled their way into the WP CEC. That would put someone at glee instead of focusing on the right things now.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Perspective,

One of the many things I detest about politics is how friends, enemies potential enemies warn you of "potential woes" all with YOUR best interests at heart. Firstly GMS in this case should learn to be more circumspect in commenting on what is happening in view of his position which is not minor. A water boy like me a small somebody like you can get away with comments and analysis which a larger personality cannot especially when it is based on contacts built up over years. If he was sincere his warnings would be private just as much of my warnings pre GE 2011 were private.

His survival and his performance will be affected by how well WP holds together for the next five and if I were him I would be praying fervently that whatever WP does however it does it it will hold together for the sake of the greater cause instead of commenting and adding fuel fire and salt.

Some of the more extreme comments and scenarios postulated about internal mechanics and internal political manueverings by those who did not get what they wish always borders on, " I did this therefore I deserve ", and sometimes sad as it is this is a reason why I do not get involve in the high and lows of elections because I know the rule is " you will give much but recieve little " For me the thought of having helped in a small way to take the PAP down a peg or two is enough, a story to tell my grandchildren is all I seek but for many it will never be enough.




Locke

Talking about changes in WP's leadership. The story some would like to hear is that Chen, Yee and Pritam muscled their way into the WP CEC. That would put someone at glee instead of focusing on the right things now.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Dear Perspective,

His survival and his performance will be affected by how well WP holds together for the next five and if I were him I would be praying fervently that whatever WP does however it does it it will hold together for the sake of the greater cause instead of commenting and adding fuel fire and salt.

Locke

Actually, you hit the nail on the head. If Perspective is really concerned about anything in opposition politics, the priority should be over WP; i.e. whether it can hold together for the next 5 years, instead of being worried about other parties like SDP or NSP.

That is why I find him dubious in this sense; either he just don't talk about it or he put more concerns on WP instead. Getting into some inconsequential discussions of other smaller parties is really bizarre. Especially so for Perspective who has more direct interests in WP instead of other parties like NSP or SDP.

The survival of WP is more important to everyone, me included. Whether SDP or NSP disintegrate or not, is really insignificant to the whole movement.

Thus I find Perspective really queer in his biased selection of topics.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[jw5]

The survival of WP is more important to everyone, me included. Whether SDP or NSP disintegrate or not, is really insignificant to the whole movement.

Thus I find Perspective really queer in his biased selection of topics.

Goh Meng Seng

Of course he's biased, who doesn't know that? Does that mean he can't start a thread to discuss the future of opposition parties which didn't win any seats?
Everyone also knows you are biased towards NSP now, previously WP.

You and anyone else are free to talk about the potential failing of WPs and the severe consequences if they do have internal strife or leadership issues. Just as Perspective is free to talk about other the opposition parties. Why do you need to use terms like dubious and queer to describe him?
Sometimes, you really damn funny, you know. You use terms to describe people, I also can.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Dear JW5,

I have no problem with people with bias tendency BUT, please, don't try to hide it under broad titles like this one. Whenever you take sides, you will have the tendency to be bias. But I find it distasteful if people try to pretend to be neutral or worst, "concerned" when they are actually not.

People who are really concerned about opposition will first get very worried about WP after Eric Tan saga. This is the first instinctive response. Why WP? As Locke has explained, even I am dead worried about WP because if anything happens to WP, we will all be affected.

With the knowledge of Perspective's background, it is really queer that he started this thread to talk about other opposition parties and deliberately leave out WP which has the biggest potential time bomb. Never mind about Socialist Front because they have not participated in this GE2011 and they face no eminent crisis big enough to affect the whole opposition movement. Not even NSP because anything happen to it would just be natural evolution. But an earthquake in WP means all others will become collateral damages!

It is with this mind, I find him queer and dubious. The only explanation I can gather is, it is just a distraction tactic or just plain smear campaign.

Goh Meng Seng

Of course he's biased, who doesn't know that? Does that mean he can't start a thread to discuss the future of opposition parties which didn't win any seats?
Everyone also knows you are biased towards NSP now, previously WP.

You and anyone else are free to talk about the potential failing of WPs and the severe consequences if they do have internal strife or leadership issues. Just as Perspective is free to talk about other the opposition parties. Why do you need to use terms like dubious and queer to describe him?
Sometimes, you really damn funny, you know. You use terms to describe people, I also can.

 

[Perspective]

Of course he's biased, who doesn't know that? Does that mean he can't start a thread to discuss the future of opposition parties which didn't win any seats?
Everyone also knows you are biased towards NSP now, previously WP.

You and anyone else are free to talk about the potential failing of WPs and the severe consequences if they do have internal strife or leadership issues. Just as Perspective is free to talk about other the opposition parties. Why do you need to use terms like dubious and queer to describe him?
Sometimes, you really damn funny, you know. You use terms to describe people, I also can.

It's intentional that he chooses to nitpick on the "importance" of the topic (as if forummers here are posting the most important topics), the choice of partisanship (as if there is no one else posting stuff in favour of their parties eg himself and metalslug, which today I learnt something new that it is a "conflict of interest"), posting under nicks as one forummer highlighted (as if his 2 friends in real life are posting under real names) and the Eric Tan breeze has flown away. I can just entertain him if he wants since I got the time and got nothing better to do like suppose to strength party.

 

[Perspective]

Dear Perspective,

One of the many things I detest about politics is how friends, enemies potential enemies warn you of "potential woes" all with YOUR best interests at heart. Firstly GMS in this case should learn to be more circumspect in commenting on what is happening in view of his position which is not minor. A water boy like me a small somebody like you can get away with comments and analysis which a larger personality cannot especially when it is based on contacts built up over years. If he was sincere his warnings would be private just as much of my warnings pre GE 2011 were private.

His survival and his performance will be affected by how well WP holds together for the next five and if I were him I would be praying fervently that whatever WP does however it does it it will hold together for the sake of the greater cause instead of commenting and adding fuel fire and salt.

Some of the more extreme comments and scenarios postulated about internal mechanics and internal political manueverings by those who did not get what they wish always borders on, " I did this therefore I deserve ", and sometimes sad as it is this is a reason why I do not get involve in the high and lows of elections because I know the rule is " you will give much but recieve little " For me the thought of having helped in a small way to take the PAP down a peg or two is enough, a story to tell my grandchildren is all I seek but for many it will never be enough.

Locke

*LIKE*

If WP was really important to them, people would want to stop mention of Eric Tan and let it be forgotten. Funny logic goes the other way. Anyway Locke, it's in another thread and I'm said it 3 times.

Would there be more Eric Tans? Seriously, with the JBJ and gang, the five post-2006 leavers and WP still winning a GRC, I think, people tend to think they leave and spit on their party in public automatically means the party and not them loses steam. It can be the other way or both ways.

 

[jw5]

Dear JW5,

I have no problem with people with bias tendency BUT, please, don't try to hide it under broad titles like this one. Whenever you take sides, you will have the tendency to be bias. But I find it distasteful if people try to pretend to be neutral or worst, "concerned" when they are actually not.

Sorry GMS, but as I replied to jixiaolan, I don't agree with your observations.
As an objective and neutral observer/forummer, I don't see Perspective pretending to be bias or neutral in this forum, or pretending to be concerned or demonizing/throwing stones at other opposition parties. I stress in this forum, because you and jixiaolan know him in reality, and perhaps there have been other exchanges we forummers don't know about. Those should be resolved outside the forum. I'm only referring to exchanges in the forum, i.e. what we are reading as postings.

He's not the guru adviser that we forummers turn to or rely on for information on opposition parties. He's just another source of information via his posts and comments and he should be allowed to do that, unless he posts something blatantly unfair or untrue.

Instead of just questioning his motives, you can discuss in this thread or a new thread the possibility of failings within WP and the implications of that for opposition politics and democracy in SG. That would be more useful and interesting than questioning the motives of an ex political party member, who is just another forummer free to air his views.

 

[jw5]

It's intentional that he chooses to nitpick on the "importance" of the topic (as if forummers here are posting the most important topics), the choice of partisanship (as if there is no one else posting stuff in favour of their parties eg himself and metalslug, which today I learnt something new that it is a "conflict of interest"), posting under nicks as one forummer highlighted (as if his 2 friends in real life are posting under real names) and the Eric Tan breeze has flown away. I can just entertain him if he wants since I got the time and got nothing better to do like suppose to strength party.

Actually, perhaps you might want to clarify your views on WP post election.
I recalled you posting a comment which was not too flattering about LTK and Sylvia after the election results, but as I didn't agree with you, I ignored and forgot it! :o

It appears to me that you may still be an ardent WP follower, but can be quite critical of them sometimes as well, that's why I find it strange and frankly, a little pointless about GMS's line of questioning.