The Ultimax & the Americans

[sleaguepunter]

Ultimax aka SAW is just a lousy piece of shit.

On the operator POV, the SAW is very unstable and the recoil is too strong. Even at prone position, the weapon will jump about in 5-6rd burst. The open bolt system also cause weapon to suffer stoppages as dirt can easily enter the chamber. Too many small parts, so not advisable to strip clean the weapon in the field. The gas regulator is a joke, a magnet to carbon which cause the weapon to become a bolt action rifle as the gas fail to reload a new round into the chamber. With thick carbon in the gas regulator, then need a special tool to dismantle it and the tool become a extra responiblity to the saw gunner. The magazine release is useless, fully loaded magazine can drop off upon any small knock on the weapon. The safety lever also useless as the weapon can fire off with a heavy knock despite already turn to safe. i can go on and on about the bad points of this lousy piece of shit.
As a armskoteman, i can see that the saw suffer from more malfunctions than any other weapons in the FFF inspections. In the armskote room, there will always be saws that unable to issue or permemant at the Battlion HQ arms tech workshop.
i fail to see how the Utlimax 100 can fulfil its role as the section LMG when it basically a badly made souped up M16.
IMHO, the colt M16A1 is still the best rifle in the SAF. the bird flu 21 sell to africa rebels groups or somalia pirates gang.

 

[Varuna]

as compared to the M249, i thought that the ultimax was lighter. The ultimax had many problems which i think are design flaws - magazine fed ammunition only, open bolt and prone to jamming if not properly maintained. The recoil is quite a bitch too, you have to keep holding the damn LMG down or it will keep aiming and shooting higher and higher.

Corking was crappy and cleaning was a nightmare. :(

 

[n1etzche]

Australian gun is metal storm? Teethering on collapse

 

[lockeliberal]

The problem with metal storm is it's perfect technical solution without tactical praticality, aka weight of barrels and the wait of the bullets or ammo carried vis sa vis it's rate of fire. The ultimax did have a muzzle climb but compared to the m16 its muzzle climb was a lot lot less in full auto. Grouping wise whether in auto or burst I would take the saw over the m16 though yes it was a bitch to maintain.


Locke

Australian gun is metal storm? Teethering on collapse

 

[Papsmearer]

Years ago Soldier Of Fortune evaluated the Ultimax. The reviewer Kolkalis wasn't too impressed with the Ultimax.

It had too many small parts that could get lost. The weapon could not always be maintained out in the field, too many repairs needed to be sent back to an armourer. While the drum magazines worked in ideal conditions, the ones included with the ultimax were not metal & not as robust as magazine fed ones.

I have this issue of SOF. I remember when they were testing it, the crazy bastards (they all have a nut loose) remove the buttstock and fired the weapon without it full auto. They loved this because it produced an extremely shortened weapon that provided high volume of fire especially with the 50 round drum mag. As far as I am concern, Chartered should have marketed this as a para version, either using a folding buttstock or a telescopic one. I am sure many special ops units would consider it in this version.

 

[Papsmearer]

Ultimax aka SAW is just a lousy piece of shit.

On the operator POV, the SAW is very unstable and the recoil is too strong. Even at prone position, the weapon will jump about in 5-6rd burst. The open bolt system also cause weapon to suffer stoppages as dirt can easily enter the chamber. Too many small parts, so not advisable to strip clean the weapon in the field. The gas regulator is a joke, a magnet to carbon which cause the weapon to become a bolt action rifle as the gas fail to reload a new round into the chamber. With thick carbon in the gas regulator, then need a special tool to dismantle it and the tool become a extra responiblity to the saw gunner. The magazine release is useless, fully loaded magazine can drop off upon any small knock on the weapon. The safety lever also useless as the weapon can fire off with a heavy knock despite already turn to safe. i can go on and on about the bad points of this lousy piece of shit.
As a armskoteman, i can see that the saw suffer from more malfunctions than any other weapons in the FFF inspections. In the armskote room, there will always be saws that unable to issue or permemant at the Battlion HQ arms tech workshop.
i fail to see how the Utlimax 100 can fulfil its role as the section LMG when it basically a badly made souped up M16.
IMHO, the colt M16A1 is still the best rifle in the SAF. the bird flu 21 sell to africa rebels groups or somalia pirates gang.

This is correct, U will note that in the marines test cited by the earlier poster, it was just a group of 48 marines using 4 test weapons, of which the Ultimax was one. They fired under 2000 rounds in total among 12 100s, I daresay that if they really rigourously test it in a real SAW test, they will see how fragile the 100 is. Once u start putting 2000 -3000 rounds continously, things will start to break long before that. The naked barrel is an issue too when hot. But to be fare, the problems u mentioned were consistent with the early batches of 100s. In addition to the problems u mentioned, the recoil spring was too long adn too delicate. The material was not strong enough, andthis piece fail commonly too. But I believe now, its been mostly rectified.Unfortunately, its earlier image is so bad that it can't really find buyers. I remember a few mags drop from my 100 for no reason too. LOL.

 

[wikiphile]

I have this issue of SOF. I remember when they were testing it, the crazy bastards (they all have a nut loose) remove the buttstock and fired the weapon without it full auto. They loved this because it produced an extremely shortened weapon that provided high volume of fire especially with the 50 round drum mag. As far as I am concern, Chartered should have marketed this as a para version, either using a folding buttstock or a telescopic one. I am sure many special ops units would consider it in this version.

In the Mark V version perhaps?

The ones we used were hand me downs MK II/III and the buttstock could be detached but it would take quite a strong arm to hold down the mofo on full auto.

 

[Papsmearer]

Our 'famed' SAR-21 is but another knock off of the Israeli's TAR-21

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAR-21

Its not a knock off. Singapore paid IMI to design the SAR-21. It was supposed to be a joint venture, and that both countries were to replace their standard assault rifle using this one. the Jews like the idea that someone would pay for the design, and singapore like the idea that once the jews start ordering the weapon, the average cost price would be lower due to economy of scales. In the end, the Jews played out the BGs, and after the SAR was roled out with much fanfare in singapore, the Jews did not follow suit. The Jews only paid lip service saying that the TAR-21 would replace their standard assualt rifle the M-16, but it never did. The rifle sucked so much, they did not place any substantial orders to possibly replace they M-16s. Bullpups have an inherently poor acceptance in armies with a traditional rifle. Bullpup users in the world are very few, with the UK SA-80 and the French FAMAS. When u consider how in the pass, the Brits have always experienced export success in their weapons such as the Lee Enfield, Sterling, FN FAL, etc. its very telling when u see that no one else buys the SA-80. SAme for the french.

 

[Papsmearer]

In the Mark V version perhaps?

The ones we used were hand me downs MK II/III and the buttstock could be detached but it would take quite a strong arm to hold down the mofo on full auto.

Don't worry about the arm strenght. If you read the bio on these SOF testers, u can see theyare pretty strong and fit. yes, but the Mk 5 is not marketed to special ops forces per se. Its still marketed as the IAR (Infantry automatice rifle)

 

[wikiphile]

Its not a knock off. Singapore paid IMI to design the SAR-21. It was supposed to be a joint venture, and that both countries were to replace their standard assault rifle using this one. the Jews like the idea that someone would pay for the design, and singapore like the idea that once the jews start ordering the weapon, the average cost price would be lower due to economy of scales. In the end, the Jews played out the BGs, and after the SAR was roled out with much fanfare in singapore, the Jews did not follow suit. The Jews only paid lip service saying that the TAR-21 would replace their standard assualt rifle the M-16, but it never did. The rifle sucked so much, they did not place any substantial orders to possibly replace they M-16s. Bullpups have an inherently poor acceptance in armies with a traditional rifle. Bullpup users in the world are very few, with the UK SA-80 and the French FAMAS. When u consider how in the pass, the Brits have always experienced export success in their weapons such as the Lee Enfield, Sterling, FN FAL, etc. its very telling when u see that no one else buys the SA-80. SAme for the french.

The SA80 never failed to make me laugh. It was so crappy that MOD had to contract H&K to 'upgrade' 200,000 of them for 400 pounds each (which in those stronger pound days could buy an entire new rifle altogether)

 

[Papsmearer]

The SA80 never failed to make me laugh. It was so crappy that MOD had to contract H&K to 'upgrade' 200,000 of them for 400 pounds each (which in those stronger pound days could buy an entire new rifle altogether)

Yes, its really sad, the brits have really fallen in this area. It all started when they switch to the Bullpup. They should never have done that. They would give their right testicle for a 7.62 FN FAL in Astan now, or even Iraq. With the FN, u have the range, the accuracy and the stopping power to put down some Taliban 400m aways.

 

[sleaguepunter]

In the Mark V version perhaps?

The ones we used were hand me downs MK II/III and the buttstock could be detached but it would take quite a strong arm to hold down the mofo on full auto.

KNN, why got good stuff naber let us reservist use, instead kenna weapons that were as old as us.

to side track a bit, i just heard 46SAR was disband in 2010, why huh?

 

[wikiphile]

Yes, its really sad, the brits have really fallen in this area. It all started when they switch to the Bullpup. They should never have done that. They would give their right testicle for a 7.62 FN FAL in Astan now, or even Iraq. With the FN, u have the range, the accuracy and the stopping power to put down some Taliban 400m aways.

Even the mats up north have realized this folly, they are turning in their Steyr Augs for M4s. It would have been much better for SAF to use the HK416/417 to replace the M-16S1 and AR-15s.

 

[wikiphile]

KNN, why got good stuff naber let us reservist use, instead kenna weapons that were as old as us.

to side track a bit, i just heard 46SAR was disband in 2010, why huh?

Probably a re-org, i left SAF in 2007.

For our reservist range, we were not allowed to use the SAR-21 and instead use the vietnam war era AR-15 and M-16s for our ATP

Fine with me, once i zeroed a M-16 correctly, that $200 is as good as in my pocket orredi :p

 

[Papsmearer]

KNN, why got good stuff naber let us reservist use, instead kenna weapons that were as old as us.

to side track a bit, i just heard 46SAR was disband in 2010, why huh?

Izzit, I am not aware. that was Hsien Yang's old unit.

 

[Papsmearer]

Probably a re-org, i left SAF in 2007.

For our reservist range, we were not allowed to use the SAR-21 and instead use the vietnam war era AR-15 and M-16s for our ATP

Fine with me, once i zeroed a M-16 correctly, that $200 is as good as in my pocket orredi :p

Why u only earn $200? Can earn much more mah.

 

[wikiphile]

Why u only earn $200? Can earn much more mah.

ATP marksman lol!

 

[Papsmearer]

Even the mats up north have realized this folly, they are turning in their Steyr Augs for M4s. It would have been much better for SAF to use the HK416/417 to replace the M-16S1 and AR-15s.

The steyr has its issues. I never liked the trigger pull. I know it can be adjusted, but the whole weapon was not intuitive to me. The sighting reticle thru the build in telescope is a bloody donut that u have to put the target in. Horrible.

 

[Papsmearer]

ATP marksman lol!

At the range in my unit, all the NCOs and Officers will hold a private shooting contest. The CSM will walk around with a beret, and everyone put in $1 into the beret. The best shot wins the whole pot. This goes on for several pots. I was banned after winning a few pots. LOL. They were jealous bastards.

 

[wikiphile]

At the range in my unit, all the NCOs and Officers will hold a private shooting contest. The CSM will walk around with a beret, and everyone put in $1 into the beret. The best shot wins the whole pot. This goes on for several pots. I was banned after winning a few pots. LOL. They were jealous bastards.

extra incentive, lol!

anyway, i believed that one of the bros here asked what happened to the bionix tank (not the lego one). I remembered it died a quiet and unnatural death. What was the story bro if you care to repeat it in a succint manner?