MM Lee say Mahathir built port to 'undercut & 'sabotage' Singapore

[myo539]

Do you have any black & white proof that Mahathir has milked the M'sian taxpayers....Not forgetting that Mahathir has voluntarily given up the reins of power while LKY is still sponging of the state.

You didn't read the earlier post regarding Mahathir's dinosaur projects?

You hope to repeat a lie many times so that it may become the truth - like CSJ shouting madly at SM Goh "Where the $10 billion dollars? Where the $10 billion dollars?"

MM Lee has donated all his $13 million earnings to charity since he became Minister Mentor in 1990. This is a fact. He is humble enough not to shout like the mad CSJ!

 

[kukubird58]

MM Lee has donated all his $13 million earnings to charity since he became Minister Mentor in 1990. This is a fact.

Hahaha......not so sure how this adds up???
MM annual salary cannot be so low for let say the past 10years.
I am sure he earned more than avg $1.3mil per year.

 

[Loofydralb]

Please direct any part of my comment that says Mahathir milked the Malaysian taxpayers. I wrote that he wasted all the country's wealth in doomed mega projects. That there is corruption during his tenure, there is little doubt but that is another subject altogether.

As for LKY, I am not discussing the issue of whether he milked Singapore tazpayers. There is little doubt that what projects Singapore undertook, most of them were successful.

The only project that made Singapore so successful was doing in the Judiciary and put it under his own personal control. After that the rest fell in place. Like media control, corruption, etc.

He could do that because of the cowardly nature of the majority inhabitants, plus the size of the island, and so on.

So in effect LKY succeeded due to Singapore's intrinsic physical qualities and limitations qualities presented him with that possibility. He could not do that with another slightly larger country called Malaysia. He was couldn't make it.

But having said this, the only other way for Singapore to progress from now onwards is to screw its own citizens. Its those very same reasons that made it prosper that will kill itself.

 

[myo539]

Hahaha......not so sure how this adds up???
MM annual salary cannot be so low for let say the past 10years.
I am sure he earned more than avg $1.3mil per year.

I am not an excellent mathematician like former DPM Dr Tony Tan, but there is such a thing called an Income Tax, (or Life Insurance), which I think I am paying proportionately quite substantially given my meagre income.

May be some accountants here can help. But salary and income is a sensitive personal thing which many do not wish to discuss in public.

 

[Windsor]

One cannot deny that Mahathir had the Judiciary, Police, ACA (Anti-Corruption Agency) and others under his thumb. The infamous Anwar Ibrahim sodomy mattress evidence and Lawyer Lingam "it looks like me, sounds like me, but it is not me" rings a bell? Mahathir lags behind LKY in every department, for if he had LKY's brains, Malaysia can be one of the most prosperous country on earth.

The only project that made Singapore so successful was doing in the Judiciary and put it under his own personal control. After that the rest fell in place. Like media control, corruption, etc.

He could do that because of the cowardly nature of the majority inhabitants, plus the size of the island, and so on.

So in effect LKY succeeded due to Singapore's intrinsic physical qualities and limitations qualities presented him with that possibility. He could not do that with another slightly larger country called Malaysia. He was couldn't make it.

But having said this, the only other way for Singapore to progress from now onwards is to screw its own citizens. Its those very same reasons that made it prosper that will kill itself.

 

[kukubird58]

I am not an excellent mathematician like former DPM Dr Tony Tan, but there is such a thing called an Income Tax, (or Life Insurance), which I think I am paying proportionately quite substantially given my meagre income.

May be some accountants here can help. But salary and income is a sensitive personal thing which many do not wish to discuss in public.

hahaha...the point here is that waht is stated as fact should not be misleading.
Income tax rate is published material and has dropped to 20%.
So if MM has 70% of salary invested in some financial plan and donated remaining 30%, it cannot be ALL right??
unless it is one of those half truth thing....

 

[johnny333]

As for LKY, I am not discussing the issue of whether he milked Singapore tazpayers. There is little doubt that what projects Singapore undertook, most of them were successful.

Well I'm bringing in LKY into the picture, I see it as the pot(LKY) calling the kettle(Mahathir) black.

If "most" of Spore's mega projects are so successful then how do you explain the losses in China, Aust, LOS,... US We are talking of rumoured losses of $50+ billion losses because we don't have an independant press which can provide a black & white proof.

 

[johnny333]

MM Lee has donated all his $13 million earnings to charity since he became Minister Mentor in 1990.[/B] This is a fact. He is humble enough not to shout like the mad CSJ!

This is big news & if it is ALL his earnings then why was the estate tax abolished

Shouldn't it be much more, at least $30 million plus for 10 years at 3 million a year?

 

[Windsor]

As a Singaporean, if LKY has out-manuevred his neighbours I find it hard to quarrel with that. If I am the neighbour, then I will be pretty pissed that he has done so. If Singapore build it's fortunes from the beginning by having one of the best ports in the world for decades, and out of spite a neighbour decides to put a spoke in her wheels by building one very close by and undercutting our business, we fight tooth and nail to win. Before setting up Port Pelepas, was there enough analysis done by Malaysia that ensures it's profitability? After it was built at great cost, Malaysia found out that the Causeway was an impedance as ships has to sail a longer route. As usual, like all mega projects, Mahathir works on gut feel without proper feasibility studies, and that is why he failed.

Your 50 billion+ losses by LKY cannot be compared to the 700 billion - 1 trillion losses by Mahathir.

Well I'm bringing in LKY into the picture, I see it as the pot(LKY) calling the kettle(Mahathir) black.

If "most" of Spore's mega projects are so successful then how do you explain the losses in China, Aust, LOS,... US We are talking of rumoured losses of $50+ billion losses because we don't have an independant press which can provide a black & white proof.

 

[johnny333]

As a Singaporean, if LKY has out-manuevred his neighbours I find it hard to quarrel with that. If I am the neighbour, then I will be pretty pissed that he has done so. If Singapore build it's fortunes from the beginning by having one of the best ports in the world for decades, and out of spite a neighbour decides to put a spoke in her wheels by building one very close by and undercutting our business, we fight tooth and nail to win. ......

Your 50 billion+ losses by LKY cannot be compared to the 700 billion - 1 trillion losses by Mahathir.

Tell me if Spore is such a financial success why is it that they keep changing the rules of when we can't withdraw out own CPF Why won't they allow Sporeans to withdraw their own CPF

Why do they need to increase the gst tp 7% to help the poor Why do have a healthcare system that is more expensive than Malaysia Why are Sporeans going to JB to buy their basics,......

 

[Windsor]

You are getting very erratic here shooting from the hips. Are we discussing the issue of Malaysia undercutting and sobotaging Singapore? You are losing me here.

Tell me if Spore is such a financial success why is it that they keep changing the rules of when we can't withdraw out own CPF Why won't they allow Sporeans to withdraw their own CPF

Why do they need to increase the gst tp 7% to help the poor Why do have a healthcare system that is more expensive than Malaysia Why are Sporeans going to JB to buy their basics,......

 

[Semaj2357]

As a Singaporean, if LKY has out-manuevred his neighbours I find it hard to quarrel with that. If I am the neighbour, then I will be pretty pissed that he has done so. If Singapore build it's fortunes from the beginning by having one of the best ports in the world for decades, and out of spite a neighbour decides to put a spoke in her wheels by building one very close by and undercutting our business, we fight tooth and nail to win......

Also, give to caesar what belongs to caesar - and the ol'fart his due. Mudhailer cannot hold a candle to the ol'fart, political cunning, renowned statesmanship and just being wise to the ways of the world. m&d's parang in the jln raya backlanes near the berlukar is simply no match for the hatchet in the cul-de-sac, both hands and pants down

 

[Loofydralb]

One cannot deny that Mahathir had the Judiciary, Police, ACA (Anti-Corruption Agency) and others under his thumb. The infamous Anwar Ibrahim sodomy mattress evidence and Lawyer Lingam "it looks like me, sounds like me, but it is not me" rings a bell? Mahathir lags behind LKY in every department, for if he had LKY's brains, Malaysia can be one of the most prosperous country on earth.

Mahathir did not have the judiciary and media under his control.

Unlike the law trained LKY, Mahathir was just a medical doctor. His ability to do machinations on matters of law was limited.

His failure to do that made him look less successful.

But you can say that under Malaysian/bigger systems, LKY did not even have a chance. LKY can only do it in a small pond.

 

[Home Owner]

Maersk was given partial ownership of the venture............ which biz can resist those terms funded by govt treasury?

Not only partial ownership but management control too.
Only Maersk laughing all the way to the BANK.

 

[longbow]

I do not have an idea of the deal between Maersk and Malaysia.

But look at this. Tg Pelapas from insignificant TEU (20-ft containers) to 6m teu iin 2009. After Maersk came to TP, Evergreen joined shortly.

Singapore PSA in total did 25 TEU:

The group's Singapore terminals volume came in at 25.14 million TEU (-13.1 per cent) and PSA terminals outside Singapore handled 31.78 million TEU (-7.1 per cent).


So that loss to Malaysia is significant

Maersk was given partial ownership of the venture............ which biz can resist those terms funded by govt treasury?

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Windsor

Its more like 'theory building " on rumor or half believed facts or facts taken out of context.

1. The CPF rules have changed because we do not have enough money, we do not have enough money because we have lost it all in Su Zhou Temasek and GIC, The facts and the figures given by the Government cannot be trusted because we do not have and independent and free media hence all government facts are lies hence .......well you get the drift.

2. Some of us believe the contrary , that the government is rich but si bei parsimonous or negow, that we have lost money on some investments but have made more over the long term on others, that the government can lie and deceive to everyone but it cannot lie to financial markets and SG being a financial centre well, it is a bit difficult to lie




Locke

 

[johnny333]

You are getting very erratic here shooting from the hips. Are we discussing the issue of Malaysia undercutting and sobotaging Singapore? You are losing me here.

I'm responding to your claim that Spore is financially successful & ALL the projects undertaken by Spore are successful

With the PAP hiding so many skeletons in the closet under the cloak of secrecy, how do you know ALL the projects/investments are successful

If they are making so much $$$ then why do they need to exploit Sporeans by holding our cpf, increasing gst, increasing of healthcare, etc ?

 

[Forvendet]

1. The CPF rules have changed because we do not have enough money, we do not have enough money because we have lost it all in Su Zhou Temasek and GIC, The facts and the figures given by the Government cannot be trusted because we do not have and independent and free media hence all government facts are lies hence .......well you get the drift.

2. Some of us believe the contrary , that the government is rich but si bei parsimonous or negow, that we have lost money on some investments but have made more over the long term on others, that the government can lie and deceive to everyone but it cannot lie to financial markets and SG being a financial centre well, it is a bit difficult to lie

I'm not certain if they lost that much but I'm nevertheless sceptical about them. However, they do allow some ways for you to take charge of your CPF money. I put all my CPF in housing and unit trusts, i.e. the performance of my CPF money depends on my home and unit trusts, not GIC or Temasek. The most they can hold back is my Medisave.

 

[Windsor]

Dear Locke,

I fully understand that in the blogosphere, many things have been said about the losses and those 2 points you made exactly explained the thoughts of Singaporeans. Are we rich as we think or have we lost our hard-earned savings? Until we know the truth, we have no choice but to live in a fool's paradise, being none the wiser.

Dear Windsor

Its more like 'theory building " on rumor or half believed facts or facts taken out of context.

1. The CPF rules have changed because we do not have enough money, we do not have enough money because we have lost it all in Su Zhou Temasek and GIC, The facts and the figures given by the Government cannot be trusted because we do not have and independent and free media hence all government facts are lies hence .......well you get the drift.

2. Some of us believe the contrary , that the government is rich but si bei parsimonous or negow, that we have lost money on some investments but have made more over the long term on others, that the government can lie and deceive to everyone but it cannot lie to financial markets and SG being a financial centre well, it is a bit difficult to lie




Locke

 

[Windsor]

I see you are trying to corner me by my statement that ALL projects undertaken by Singapore are financially successful. Let me quote exactly what I actually wrote.

"There is little doubt that what projects Singapore undertook, most of them were successful."


So you have changed what I wrote to strengthen your argument.

Lockeliberal has explained the 2 schools of thought by most Singaporeans. Whether we have lost our wealth or otherwise, no one truly knows. So please drop the subject as this is just your gut feel. If I know the truth, won't I feel upset too as a Singaporean?

I'm responding to your claim that Spore is financially successful & ALL the projects undertaken by Spore are successful

With the PAP hiding so many skeletons in the closet under the cloak of secrecy, how do you know ALL the projects/investments are successful

If they are making so much $$$ then why do they need to exploit Sporeans by holding our cpf, increasing gst, increasing of healthcare, etc ?