For taiwanese lovers why is mandarin the national language of taiwan?

[Jah_rastafar_I]

I'm not sure but i figure it must be this. Prior to the chinese civil war they had already chosen mandarin as the common language. Is this correct? Therefore after the civil war and the guomintang ran away from the mainland to taiwan the taiwanese govt still harboured intentions of ruling the entire china mainland hence they decided to use mandarin as their lingua franca as opposed to their native minan language. Is this correct?



You see i find this strange. The taiwanese probably still want their independence or at least a sizable majority do. I believe the sentiments are also reflected in their parliment. Therefore one of the steps to show independence should to try to establish a different language. Maybe make them all speak hokkien rather than mandarin. Something like HK.

You see by speaking the same common language as the china mainland doesn't this give grounds for the prc govt to integrate taiwan into china? Take USA and england for eg. When US delcared independence they immediately created american english which in reality is very very similar to british english just a few words have different spellings and so on but at least they wanted to show they were no more a part of the UK.


Shouldn't this be the same with taiwan? By establishing mandarin which is a northern chinese dialect on the taiwanese whom should mostly be southern speaking isn't this ironically following the beijing govt's orders? The ppl in china don't have a choice since they are under prc rule but not taiwanese.

Someone pls explain.

 

[Ramseth]

Have to differentiate between ROC and Taiwan. Mandarin is the offcial language of ROC (just like in PRC, as both lay claim to be China). Taiwanese (a version of Fujianese, Minnanese or Hokkien) is the provincial language of Taiwan, just like Cantonese in Guangdong etc. PRC has 20+ provinces. ROC has only one province.

 

[Sideswipe]

Shouldn't this be the same with taiwan? By establishing mandarin which is a northern chinese dialect on the taiwanese whom should mostly be southern speaking isn't this ironically following the beijing govt's orders? The ppl in china don't have a choice since they are under prc rule but not taiwanese.

Someone pls explain.

The KMT govt considered themselves the legitimate govt of all China and swore to return back someday thus there was no need to "break ties" with China, mandarin remained as official language.
KMT aggressively promoted mandarin as the island Lingua franca, all dialects were banned on schools, mass media and govt ministries until the late 80s. If you remembered Taiwanese variety shows in the 80s, it's all mandarin, not a word of hokkien or hakka like Singapore.

 

[Sideswipe]

PRC has 20+ provinces. ROC has only one province.

you don't 看衰 Republic of China.

ROC has two provinces - Taiwan province and Kinmen county, Lienchiang county of Fujian province.

 

[Ramseth]

you don't 看衰 Republic of China.

ROC has two provinces - Taiwan province and Kinmen county, Lienchiang county of Fujian province.

A province is a 省。 A county (prefecture) is a 县。

A Chinese province averages about as big as the whole Malaysia.

A Chinese prefecture averages about as big as a state of Malaysia.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

The KMT govt considered themselves the legitimate govt of all China and swore to return back someday thus there was no need to "break ties" with China, mandarin remained as official language.
KMT aggressively promoted mandarin as the island Lingua franca, all dialects were banned on schools, mass media and govt ministries until the late 80s. If you remembered Taiwanese variety shows in the 80s, it's all mandarin, not a word of hokkien or hakka like Singapore.

nope i doubt i ever watched a taiwanese show in the 80s too young then.


Btw singapore also the same what. Only recently then they allow dialects to be aired.

 

[Sideswipe]

nope i doubt i ever watched a taiwanese show in the 80s too young then.

Btw singapore also the same what. Only recently then they allow dialects to be aired.

Chinese dialects in Singapore are still officially banned in free-to-air television except in special cases like charity shows - sing a few hokkien or canto songs.

our national language should be Hokkien too after independence but for those banana PAP.

 

[Sideswipe]

A province is a 省。 A county (prefecture) is a 县。

I know what you mean, it's just that ROC constitution states they effectively controlled two provinces now - Taiwan and Fujian.

 

[Ramseth]

I know what you mean, it's just that ROC constitution states they effectively controlled two provinces now - Taiwan and Fujian.

It's the reverse of the Penang-Butterworth situation. The main Penang state is the Penang island but a part of Butterworth on the peninsula is also part of the Penang state. However, there's no problem there since Malaysia is united. In the case of Fujian, the mainland part is the main province held by PRC but a few offshore islands supposedly under Fujian are held by ROC. In any case, Fujian province has since been one of the heaviest armed provinces in China, at any time 1 million troops and 100 nukes. And no locals are involved. They deployed northern troops in Fujian, just in case of sentimental soft-heartedness if there's really a outbreak of war. Can Taiwan fight that if wants to retake whole of Fujian or even China?

 

[Agoraphobic]

I remember reading somewhere during the recent protest in Guangdong and HK of increased putonghua on tv that it was during Sun Yat-Sen's time they voted to agree which will be the official language - mandarin, or cantonese. Apparently canto lost out because it was more "difficult" than the other - seven tones I think, versus four.

Don't ask me further, my mother tongue is a rojak of hokkien-teochew with some malay infusion like pasak.

Cheers!

 

[wahlaneh]

wahlaneh...
this question is best answered by a true blue taiwanese.
but as much as i remember, taiwan 台湾 this island was 1st occupied by 原住民 of 花莲县 somewhat like australian aboriginal tribesmen.
they had no official language of their own but used certain sounds and symbols to communicate with one another.

 

[Varuna]

Pity the Taiwanese kids, still having to learn to write using the complex old chinese characters 繁体字 while ironically their counterparts across the straits, the cradle of chinese civilisation, has already switched to the use of simple characters 简体字. Their education system has suffered for the last decade, again a victim of political conflict and infighting.

 

[wahlaneh]

Pity the Taiwanese kids, still having to learn to write using the complex old chinese characters 繁体字 while ironically their counterparts across the straits, the cradle of chinese civilisation, has already switched to the use of simple characters 简体字. Their education system has suffered for the last decade, again a victim of political conflict and infighting.

wahlaneh...
actually many taiwanese still refused to be unified and identified with the mainland chinese and the mainland chinese still regards taiwan as renegade province.
that probably explains why taiwanese insist on using complex chinese characters while their mainland cousins have already abandoned the older form.

 

[Ramseth]

Pity the Taiwanese kids, still having to learn to write using the complex old chinese characters 繁体字 while ironically their counterparts across the straits, the cradle of chinese civilisation, has already switched to the use of simple characters 简体字. Their education system has suffered for the last decade, again a victim of political conflict and infighting.

It's good to learn both. In fact, there's a third semi-simplified version, Japanese kanji, e.g. 龍 (Chinese traditional), 龙 (Chinese simplified) and 竜 (Japanese kanji). Chinese simplified and Japanese kanji (and even hiragana and katana) trace back to Chinese traditional. It's good to understand it.

 

[sinren67]

May i know why English is British's national language?

 

[Ramseth]

May i know why English is British's national language?

Because England subdued (a better word than conquered) Scotland and Wales to form the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The whole Ireland was originally included but the south broke off into a republic later. Because England has about 50 million population, Scotland less than 10 million, Wales and Northern Ireland less than 5 million each.

 

[Sideswipe]

It's good to learn both. In fact, there's a third semi-simplified version, Japanese kanji, e.g. 龍 (Chinese traditional), 龙 (Chinese simplified) and 竜 (Japanese kanji). Chinese simplified and Japanese kanji (and even hiragana and katana) trace back to Chinese traditional. It's good to understand it.

think if one knows either Chinese simplified/traditional or Japanese kanji, should have no problems understanding most of the other 2 writing characters. correct?

I can read 85% of Taiwanese websites which are good enough to understand the contents. For Japan - can browse the porn sites without getting lost.
Japanese kanji is 80% Chinese traditional?

 

[Ramseth]

think if one knows either Chinese simplified/traditional or Japanese kanji, should have no problems understanding most of the other 2 writing characters. correct?

I can read 85% of Taiwanese websites which are good enough to understand the contents. For Japan - can browse the porn sites without getting lost.
Japanese kanji is 80% Chinese traditional?

I'd say post-WW2 Japanese kanji is about 60% Chinese traditional, 30% Chinese simplified and 10% Japanese own design. Chinese simplified and Japanese simplified are not arbitrary too. They were based on calligraphic short-hand pinciples that existed for millennia since the invention of Chinese characters brush-stroke calligraphy. The written Japanese "alphabet," more commonly known as the A-I-U-E-O goju'on "syllabary" as hiragana (あいうえお) and katana (アイウエオ), follows this principle too.

 

[Varuna]

wahlaneh...
actually many taiwanese still refused to be unified and identified with the mainland chinese and the mainland chinese still regards taiwan as renegade province.
that probably explains why taiwanese insist on using complex chinese characters while their mainland cousins have already abandoned the older form.

Precisely, whenever there is an idea to change their education system to adopt Simple Characters, the pro-independent party, DPP, would politicise the matter as a pro-China move, accusing the government or whoever is behind this idea of harbouring ulterior motive of re-unification with China. KNN, really shake head. Anyway, Taiwan has fallen back despite its glorious past achievements in the early years when it was part of the four dragons of Asia. Even though it has fallen behind in its economy compared to its peers like Singapore and S. Korea, it still maintains its charm as one of the favourite Holiday destinations. It's a shame to say that even with our 2 IR engines propelling with full throttle, I think Taiwan is still much more attractive and interesting to visit. (and of course minus away their gangster behaviour in their politics) It's one place where the people will never have to broadcast that they are proud to be Uniquely Taiwanese, they already infuse this pride in the way they live and behave.

 

[Jah_rastafar_I]

Precisely, whenever there is an idea to change their education system to adopt Simple Characters, the pro-independent party, DPP, would politicise the matter as a pro-China move, accusing the government or whoever is behind this idea of harbouring ulterior motive of re-unification with China. KNN, really shake head. Anyway, Taiwan has fallen back despite its glorious past achievements in the early years when it was part of the four dragons of Asia. Even though it has fallen behind in its economy compared to its peers like Singapore and S. Korea, it still maintains its charm as one of the favourite Holiday destinations. It's a shame to say that even with our 2 IR engines propelling with full throttle, I think Taiwan is still much more attractive and interesting to visit. (and of course minus away their gangster behaviour in their politics) It's one place where the people will never have to broadcast that they are proud to be Uniquely Taiwanese, they already infuse this pride in the way they live and behave.

I hear taiwanese ppl are pretty warm too unlike arrogant sinkies.